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[The Flash]

Me. Obviously.

 

[Manmademan]

I never understood the Infinite Mass Punch. And I even googled it to see what some fans say but reading what they say as an explanation also seems as hokey as the writer's poor understanding of physics (of course being comics, hokey physics are everywhere). Force = mass X acceleration and he does the punch by basically going impossibly fast. Shouldn't his mass be staying the same but his acceleration (because his speed is going faster and faster, since acceleration is your change in velocity) is going to infinity? It would make sense if it was Infinite Force Punch or Infinite Acceleration Punch. His mass should still be same and if the speedforce did have an effect on his mass, it would be more feasible to make it closer to a photon (the particle of light), which is essentially massless. In short, it doesn't make sense that it's called Infinite Mass Punch.

Nope. as your acceleration goes up, so does your mass. This keeps going until you hit light speed, in which case your mass should be basically infinite. this is why it's impossible for anything to hit light speed as we understand it, because it would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate something up to "C".

The scan posted where flash saves all the people from the nuke alludes to this- describing his eyes as being of "near infinite mass". Flash gains mass as he accelerates, so a flash going at high rates of speed will hit you with the force of a planet or so.

The speed force keeps that mass from collapsing everything around it into a singularity and killing us all.

 

[PsychBat!]

Remember that mammoth guy you were talking about. Well with a small portion of Enerjak power he destroyed millions of miltverses. Enerjak is thousands of times stronger than him.

I'm too lazy to post the Beyonder's abilities so I'm going to leave this here.

 

[Delta Assault]

Him punching someone at high speed should probably release a nuclear explosion due to atoms being split by the collision.

But I guess the speedforce prevents that kinda thing from happening.

 

[Winterfang]

That enerjack character looks pretty cool for a cosmic character. Why is he is so strong anyway?

 

[Manmademan]

Remember that mammoth guy you were talking about. Well with a small portion of Enerjak power he destroyed millions of miltverses. Enerjak is thousands of times stronger than him.

The beyonder is a massive universe of basically infinite size, billions of times larger than our own that collapsed itself down to three dimensions for fun and proceeded to wreck shit. The comparison between the two is usually referred to as "a drop of water compared to the entire ocean." The power to wreck a "billion dimensions" wouldn't scratch him, and hasn't.

The guy who shot him there and failed to kill him is doing so with a portion of beyonder's own power. The beyonder is unkillable and has no limits. it's pointless to discuss trying to defeat it.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

If Enerjak isn't omnitemporal, Flash can just travel back in time and kill him in his crib. In fact, most cosmic beings can do that in Marvel or DC.

There is no need to pull out the Beyonder, The Endless, Lucifer, or Living Tribunal to take on Enerjak.

Good luck trying to take out Lucifer since he precedes time itself.

 

[SixMachine]

Einstein's theory of special relativity dictates that an object gains mass as it accelerates. The faster it goes, the more massive it becomes.

With my hokey knowledge of physics back when i was still in school, that theory is about relative mass. So if something was accelerating, from the perspective of someone at rest, it would seem that it would have more mass because of it would take more energy to change the objects acceleration.

So in other words, the Infinite Mass Punch is named relative of his opponent at the time. Even though Flash's actual mass does not change, I guess relative to his opponent it did.

 

[twilitesparklemotion]

Where the hell is this Obama/Sonic fanfiction?

 

[PsychBat!]

If Enerjak isn't omnitemporal, Flash can just travel back in time and kill him in his crib. In fact, most cosmic beings can do that in Marvel or DC.

There is no need to pull out the Beyonder, The Endless, Lucifer, or Living Tribunal to take on Enerjak.

Good luck trying to take out Lucifer since he preceds time itself.

Damn it, don't bring Lucifer into this! lol

He beats Enerjak with no effort! You're going to kill us all.

 

[Manmademan]

With my hokey knowledge of physics back when i was still in school, that theory is about relative mass. So if something was accelerating, from the perspective of someone at rest, it would seem that it would have more mass because of it would take more energy to change the objects acceleration.

So in other words, the Infinite Mass Punch is named relative of his opponent at the time. Even though Flash's actual mass does not change, I guess relative to his opponent it did.

Flash's ACTUAL mass changes as he accelerates, it's not relative.

edit: you might find this interesting:

The Oh-My-God particle was an ultra-high-energy cosmic ray (most likely a proton) detected on the evening of 15 October 1991 over Dugway Proving Ground, Utah. Its observation was a shock to astrophysicists, who estimated its energy to be approximately 3×1020 eV (3×108 TeV, about 20 million times more energetic than the highest energy measured in radiation emitted by an extragalactic object);[1] in other words, a subatomic particle with kinetic energy equal to that of 50 Joules, or a 5-ounce (142 g) baseball traveling at about 100 kilometers per hour (60 mph).[2]

The particle was traveling very close to the speed of light[3] — assuming the particle was a proton, its speed was only about 1.5 femtometers (quadrillionths of a meter) per second less than the speed of light, translating to a speed of approximately 0.999 999 999 999 999 999 999 9951c. At that speed, in a year-long race between a photon and the particle, the particle would fall behind only 46 nanometers, or 0.15 femtoseconds (1.5×10−16 s); or one centimeter every 220 000 years.[4] Its energy is around 25 billionths of the Planck energy, the fundamental unit of energy in quantum gravity and the highest conceivable energy scale in all but the most speculative theories of particle physics.

 

[akira28]

Wally Flash.

 

[Winterfang]

Where the hell is this Obama/Sonic fanfiction?

You are not ready to yonder into that deep of the dark internet meadow.

 

[Heroman]

If Enerjak isn't omnitemporal, Flash can just travel back in time and kill him in his crib. In fact, most cosmic beings can do that in Marvel or DC.

There is no need to pull out the Beyonder, The Endless, Lucifer, or Living Tribunal to take on Enerjak.

Good luck trying to take out Lucifer since he preceds time itself.

You really don't know what he can do. Saying the flash can kill him is like saying the flash can kill LT. This is what he can do ,from the sonic wiki, The abilities of an Enerjak are highly varied, all derived from the use of the Chaos Force and limited only to the imagination of the avatar. In comparison to most beings, anyone who assumes the mantle of Enerjak is virtually omnipotent.

 

[RedShift]

How is there any crime at all in the DC universe? Can't the Flash just do everything?

 

[SixMachine]

Flash's ACTUAL mass changes as he accelerates, it's not relative.

That's the part that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The actual mass shouldn't change. The relative mass is what changes. When a particle is approaching is going faster and faster it's true mass does not change but it's relative mass does. Trying to get particles with pass to the speed of light is impossible because as it goes faster it's relative mass is increasing and thus it takes more energy to get it as faster, while photons are essentially massless. I'm just saying there is no reasoning why his actual mass should be getting larger.

edit: that snippet is interesting but my hokey knowledge of physics makes it hard for me to fully grasp it 100%.

 

[Manmademan]

That's the part that doesn't make a lick of sense to me. The actual mass shouldn't change. The relative mass is what changes. When a particle is approaching is going faster and faster it's true mass does not change but it's relative mass does. Trying to get particles with pass to the speed of light is impossible because as it goes faster it's relative mass is increasing and thus it takes more energy to get it as faster, while photons are essentially massless. I'm just saying there is no reasoning why his actual mass should be getting larger.

edit: that snippet is interesting but my hokey knowledge of physics makes it hard for me to fully grasp it 100%.

you're making me go to "brittanica" on this one. Looks like you're referring to RELATIVISTIC mass, not "relative" mass.

relativistic mass, in the special theory of relativity, the mass that is assigned to a body in motion. In physical theories prior to special relativity, the momentum p and energy E assigned to a body of rest mass m0 and velocity v were given by the formulas p = m0v and E = E0 + m0v2/2, where the value of the “rest energy” E0 was undetermined. In special relativity, the relativistic mass is given by m = γm0, where γ = 1/ √((1 − v2/c2)) and c is the speed of light in a vacuum (299,792.458 km [186,282.397 miles] per second). Then the corresponding formulas for p and E, respectively, are p = mv and E = mc2. The relativistic mass m becomes infinite as the velocity of the body approaches the speed of light, so, even if large momentum and energy are arbitrarily supplied to a body, its velocity always remains less than c.

The snippet I posted refers to a proton (not a photon) measured a while ago that for some reason or another was traveling at a speed VERY close to "C". that single proton hit with the force of a 5 ounce baseball traveling at 60mph.

 

[Winterfang]

Hahahaha, that's legit comedy.

 

[Toxi]

Superman is, well, Superman, but Knuckles don't chuckle. Cause he'd rather flex his muscles.

Hmm...this is a tough one.

This thread is making me cry tears of joy.

So the only way to challenge Flash is with another Flash. Wow.

Yellow the Flashhog?

 

[Manmademan]

This thread is making me cry tears of joy.

So the only way to challenge Flash is with another Flash. Wow.

Yellow the Flashhog?

That "flash" isn't a speedster, but a time manipulator, which is why flash has problems with him. Trying to describe how that guy's powers work gives me headaches.

 

[Epsilon-delta]

You really don't know what he can do. Saying the flash can kill him is like saying the flash can kill LT. This is what he can do ,from the sonic wiki, The abilities of an Enerjak are highly varied, all derived from the use of the Chaos Force and limited only to the imagination of the avatar. In comparison to most beings, anyone who assumes the mantle of Enerjak is virtually omnipotent.

Virtually omnipotent ≠ omnitemporal. LT is omnitemporal due to him having M-bodies in all the planes of existence in Marvel.

The wiki itself on Enerjak says his powers varies so he can be as powerful as a cosmic cube or in possession of the Infinity Gauntlet, both of which can be stopped by LT or Beyonder.

 

[PsychBat!]

That "flash" isn't a speedster, but a time manipulator, which is why flash has problems with him. Trying to describe how that guy's powers work gives me headaches.

I always get Thawn and Zolomon mixed up.

 

[Popnbake]

Lol...had no idea about the Flash and Sonic/Knuckles being that op in their comics.

If Enerjak isn't omnitemporal, Flash can just travel back in time and kill him in his crib. In fact, most cosmic beings can do that in Marvel or DC.

There is no need to pull out the Beyonder, The Endless, Lucifer, or Living Tribunal to take on Enerjak.

Good luck trying to take out Lucifer since he precedes time itself.

How do beings like the Endless and Lucifer fight anyway?

I remember Dream talking to Desire asking him if he seriously thought he could go against
him or Death. I don't know how such a fight would go down between them.

 

[Delta Assault]

I always get Thawn and Zolomon mixed up.

Thawn has normal looking Flash-style eye holes. Zolomon is the one with the weird bee-like goggle eyes.

 

[Winterfang]

That "flash" isn't a speedster, but a time manipulator, which is why flash has problems with him. Trying to describe how that guy's powers work gives me headaches.

I think Sonic can manipulate time with Chaos Control.

 

[SixMachine]

you're making me go to "brittanica" on this one. Looks like you're referring to RELATIVISTIC mass, not "relative" mass.



The snippet I posted refers to a proton (not a photon) measured a while ago that for some reason or another was traveling at a speed VERY close to "C". that single proton hit with the force of a 5 ounce baseball traveling at 60mph.

Pardon my terminology, as I said it's been years since I've been in school and I have hokey knowledge of physics. I understand that part, it's just making a comparison of another equivalent force since you can make comparison with a 10 ounce ball moving 30mph. Well anyways I went to google some more and I guess I can see how Infinite Mass Punch works if you take in account mass-energy equivalence, where mass is a measure of the energy of something, and since he basically built up infinite amounts of kinetic energy, he should have infinite mass. I still don't understand how his actual mass is changing to infinite but I guess we just leave it at me just not getting it.

 

[Manmademan]

Virtually omnipotent ≠ omnitemporal. LT is omnitemporal due to him having M-bodies in all the planes of existence in Marvel.

The wiki itself on Enerjak says his powers varies so he can be as powerful as a cosmic cube or in possession of the Infinity Gauntlet, both of which can be stopped by LT or Beyonder.

The fun part is when discussing the marvel abstract beings (like say, eternity, infinity, death, chaos, order, etc) they aren't simply powerful entities, they are LITERALLY those concepts given will and motive, using bodies when convenient to interact with lower organisms.

for instance:

Eternity came into existence when the universe was formed (along with Death, Oblivion, and Infinity) and spontaneously assumed the collective consciousness of all living things in the Universe. He is every living thing and every living thing is him; thus he controls everything in all plains (sic) of existence with the exception of the Living Tribunal, who maintains the cosmic balance of power. Eternity is the physical incarnation of time, whereas his sister Infinity represents space.

You want to eliminate eternity/infinity, you have to literally obliterate the concept of time itself, and everything on the space/time axis. Good luck with that one.

 

[gutter_trash]

Flash.. comic book powers

Sonic video-game character that goes as fast your video-game allows him

so Flash wins

 

[Epsilon-delta]

Lol...had no idea about the Flash and Sonic/Knuckles being that op in their comics.




How do beings like the Endless and Lucifer fight anyway?

I remember Dream talking to Desire asking him if he seriously thought he could go against
him or Death. I don't know how such a fight would go down between them.

Dream stated Lucifer is far more powerful than him. It's not a contest really. Lucifer threatened Death and told the Spectre to take a hike while he was enjoying a sunset.

Lucifer is God's infinite will, he can shape all matters of creation into anything he wants including abstracts such as time.

 

[Manmademan]

I think Sonic can manipulate time with Chaos Control.

Flash can travel around in time by going fast enough, but Hunter Zolomon's powers manipulate time in a specific way that is quite frankly nonsensical and difficult to describe. essentially he's constantly on his own personal timeline separate from everyone else, and manipulates his position within it to simulate speeds that break the laws of physics and give himself super strength to the Nth degree.

I never really "got" this guy and don't like discussing the character. makes my brain hurt.

 

[Einbroch]

After reading this thread, comics seem pretty neat, but also terrifying.

 

[Slayven]

Flash can travel around in time by going fast enough, but Hunter Zolomon's powers manipulate time in a specific way that is quite frankly nonsensical and difficult to describe. essentially he's constantly on his own personal timeline separate from everyone else, and manipulates his position within it to simulate speeds that break the laws of physics and give himself super strength to the Nth degree.

I never really "got" this guy and don't like discussing the character. makes my brain hurt.

I guess you never read this, still don't know what these people can do.

 

[TheRealTalker]

damn this comic is harsh
lol

 

[Deleted member 13876]

I think it's Urkel. He had teleportation.

 

[Kanyon]

Me. Obviously.

There you have it, straight from the man himself.

 

[TacticalFox88]

What about my boy Franklin Richards?

Where's he at in all this?

 

[Riposte]

Grant Morrison wrote a comic where the Flash had to race what was essentially Sonic the Hedgehog for the fate of the planet

http://clzimages.com/comic/large/9d/9d_43014_0_FlashVol213723TheHumanRacepart.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Great story; Morrison-as-fuck, just how I like it. Would make the perfect Flash movie as far as I'm concerned (though it would sting a little to see it adapted to Barry lol).

As for the rest of this thread... I wish I never read it. Yuck. This seems like the only way people can talk about comics outside dedicated threads and there's nothing fruitful about it.

 

[Ebris]

Remember that mammoth guy you were talking about. Well with a small portion of Enerjak power he destroyed millions of miltverses. Enerjak is thousands of times stronger than him.

Man, do you write Sonic fanfics or something?

 

[Lazyslob]

the flash makes speedy gonzales look like regular gonzales

 

[Just take it with you.]

Well, he's called "Quick Man" for a reason...

Good thing for Sonic that Flash Man wasn't there.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Now I know why Stan Lee doesn't like DC comics.

 

[Calabi]

Flash can travel around in time by going fast enough, but Hunter Zolomon's powers manipulate time in a specific way that is quite frankly nonsensical and difficult to describe. essentially he's constantly on his own personal timeline separate from everyone else, and manipulates his position within it to simulate speeds that break the laws of physics and give himself super strength to the Nth degree.

I never really "got" this guy and don't like discussing the character. makes my brain hurt.

Sounds like Dr Manhattan, except he cant manipulate his position. Its kind of funny we're all on our separate timeline, there's no universal time. There's nothing special about that. Thats what relativity is about.

 

[Oblivion]

I'm too lazy to post the Beyonder's abilities so I'm going to leave this here.

The Beyonder is the second most powerful being in the Marvel universe? This is the first time I'm hearing of that.

Slayven! Reveal thyself. Tell me this isn't true.

And LOL at his power levels on the chart.

 

[Rubezh]

I say Sonic because of the following evidence:

 

[Heroman]

Man, do you write Sonic fanfics or something?

I dont write fanfic, this it was wriiten by someone at Archie comic.

 

[Toxi]

Meet Enerjak

this dude has power beyond the Beyonder

Is that Knuckles?

 

[Heroman]

Is that Knuckles?

Yep

 

[PsychBat!]

The Beyonder is the second most powerful being in the Marvel universe? This is the first time I'm hearing of that.

Slayven! Reveal thyself. Tell me this isn't true.

And LOL at his power levels on the chart.

Well, there's debate on whether he can be the most powerful being above TOAA (The One Above All) but it's pointless to even try to start this argument. It would just be a stalemate, honestly.

 

[Heroman]

Well, there's debate on whether he can be the most powerful being above TOAA (The One Above All) but it's pointless to even try to start this argument. It would just be a stalemate, honestly.

I thought it was TOAA then Lt followed by the pre retcon Beyonder.

 

[PsychBat!]

I thought it was TOAA then Lt followed by the pre retcon Beyonder.

pre retcon beyonder outclasses LT, I would post pics but I'm on my phone.