Support NeoGAF

[Hero]

I don't hate GTA, I find it to be fun for a half hour or so. But then when the novelty wears off I'm just playing a gigantic game with frustrating controls and so much random activity that the two combine into an overall bad experience.

The fact that there have been four iterations of it in the past few years without any major strides forward, I just don't find it that appealing. Oh yeah, a good story and characters could also benefit this.

 

[Pimpbaa]

The fact that there have been four iterations of it in the past few years without any major strides forward, I just don't find it that appealing. Oh yeah, a good story and characters could also benefit this.

The series has had major strides forward in regards to gameplay, and the series has had great stories and characters. Try again.

 

[Catchpenny]

Actually, I've always thought it was the PC crowd that hated on GTA the most.

I love the series. GTA3 will probably be remembered as the most important game of this decade. It's not as much fun to go back to now since the sequels improved on a number of things, but no game had a bigger impact on me this generation.

That said, GTA is having less and less of an impact with each new iteration. Vice City really stepped it up in terms of atmosphere and presentation, but it gave us a city that wasn't as fun to explore. San Andreas added a huge environment and lots of neat little things, but so many of those additions felt like novelties lacking in depth (basketball, robbing houses, working out/getting fat). The gang wars were a lot of fun, too bad they get screwed up by the storyline. Eventually San Andreas seems all too familiar, and that's a problem when the game is so long and expansive.

 

[Oblivion]

My only problem with the series is that I don't care for the environment and atmosphere. I absolutely love the actual game design, though.

Also, the other thing that irked me is all the clones the series spawned.

 

[Nameless]

If it were the exact same game, save for cosmetic changes that gave it a sci-fi or quirky J-pop back drop, and only sold 200k, this place would be in love with it.

The frame-rate drops, glitches etc...are excuses people consitently use to down GTA when they can say nothing else to debunk the series. The fact is, that those problems are so minor in the grand scope of the titles that if you're focused on them, than you're not even playing the games for enjoyment in the first place.

And this forum shouldn't talk about games "aging well" considering the majority around here would rather play a host of 16-bit revivals with touch screen features than anything truly innovative.

 

[whiteACID]

I never got what was so great about the GTA series...but then again I am a girl...

 

[GoutPatrol]

There IS a jazz station...from my memory.

Nope, sorry.

Playback-Classic Rap
Los Santos-Early 90s Gangster rap
Bounce-70s Funk
K-Jah West-Reggae
DST-70s Rock
Radio X-Late 80s/Early 90s Rock
CSR-90's Pop/R&B
Rose-Country
Master Sounds-60s Funk/Blues (at least Green Onions is)
CTR-Talkshows

 

[Ninja Scooter]

If it were the exact same game, save for cosmetic changes that gave it a sci-fi or quirky J-pop back drop, and only sold 200k, this place would be in love with it.

The frame-rate drops, glitches etc...are excuses people consitently use to down GTA when they can say nothing else to debunk the series. The fact is, that those problems are so minor in the grand scope of the titles that if you're focused on them, than you're not even playing the games for enjoyment in the first place.

And this forum shouldn't talk about games "aging well" considering the majority around here would rather play a host of 16-bit revivals with touch screen features than anything truly innovative.

exactly. Look how forgivable this forum is with the framerate in GAF favorite Shadow of Collussus. That the framerate in that game is horrendous.

 

[bishoptl]

Three things to put it all together.

1. GAF is filled with Japanophiles. Some are pretty open about it, most have some kind of denial about it. In any case, GAF is Japanophilia heaven.

2. GTA is incredibly popular and sells incredibly well. Edit: Also well rated according to the game media.

3. GTA is a western developed title.


I would also add that Rockstar did the whole "sandbox gameplay" far better than Miyamoto ever dreamed of doing which also adds to the hate.

I can't believe this thread is still going when Shadow wrapped it up quite succinctly over 2 days ago. Oh well - eat your heart out, ladies! GTA still whomps the crap out of <enter your favourite series that nobody gives a shit about besides a few fellow neckbeards> in quality and sales.

Booyah, etc.

 

[Gattsu25]

maybe you're right, I didn't finish mercenaries but I played like 2 hours and it feels very short compared to other GTA clones, but is a good thing because it feels more polished

Late resposne but...how can you ...er...what?

 

[Nozi]

exactly. Look how forgivable this forum is with the framerate in GAF favorite Shadow of Collussus. That the framerate in that game is horrendous.

Exactly..

All the criticisms thrown at GTA in here are applicable to SOTC, even more so in most cases:

- framerate is way worse
- awkward controls on foot and on 'vehicle'
- much smaller world, with zero atmosphere and nothing to do
- clunky combat
- uninspired character design

Yet, even with all that, SOTC is a great game.

 

[Archie]

Exactly..

All the criticisms thrown at GTA in here are applicable to SOTC, even more so in most cases:

- framerate is way worse
- awkward controls on foot and on 'vehicle'
- much smaller world, with zero atmosphere and nothing to do
- clunky combat
- uninspired character design

Yet, even with all that, SOTC is a great game.

SotC is a great example of artistic storytelling and gripping plotlines. GTA is just a mindless killfest without a soul

Spoiler

at least gta is fun

 

[djtiesto]

Nope, sorry.

Playback-Classic Rap
Los Santos-Early 90s Gangster rap
Bounce-70s Funk
K-Jah West-Reggae
DST-70s Rock
Radio X-Late 80s/Early 90s Rock
CSR-90's Pop/R&B
Rose-Country
Master Sounds-60s Funk/Blues (at least Green Onions is)
CTR-Talkshows

You forgot SF-UR... my favorite station in SA.

 

[AlanHemberger]

Exactly..

All the criticisms thrown at GTA in here are applicable to SOTC, even more so in most cases:

- framerate is way worse
- awkward controls on foot and on 'vehicle'
- much smaller world, with zero atmosphere and nothing to do
- clunky combat
- uninspired character design

Yet, even with all that, SOTC is a great game.

haha so true. and i even admit to liking SOTC. I like GTA3 and VC, just not SA. I didn't find it interesting at all. and i don't have a problem with framerates or combat or controls with either game. Just didn't care for the direction SA went into. I think a lot of people share that feeling. Then there are some who hate it just to hate it.

 

[Ranger X]

haha so true. and i even admit to liking SOTC. I like GTA3 and VC, just not SA. I didn't find it interesting at all. and i don't have a problem with framerates or combat or controls with either game. Just didn't care for the direction SA went into. I think a lot of people share that feeling. Then there are some who hate it just to hate it.

What direction? You don't like the gangsta style and it's niggaz?

 

[Amir0x]

Exactly..

All the criticisms thrown at GTA in here are applicable to SOTC, even more so in most cases:

- framerate is way worse
- awkward controls on foot and on 'vehicle'
- much smaller world, with zero atmosphere and nothing to do
- clunky combat
- uninspired character design

Yet, even with all that, SOTC is a great game.

you have some points, but it's clear you're going too far with some of your comments just for effect

if nothing else, Shadow of the Colossus has some of the most inspired character/enemy design AND atmosphere of any game this gen. That's one of the things it achieves, in spades and with change left over for more awesome. It's definitely one of its crowning achievements.

 

[Nozi]

you have some points, but it's clear you're going too far with some of your comments just for effect

if nothing else, Shadow of the Colossus has some of the most inspired character/enemy design AND atmosphere of any game this gen. That's one of the things it achieves, in spades and with change left over for more awesome. It's definitely one of its crowning achievements.

Of course the colossi were incredible designs, I should clarify that. The hero was a typical effeminate clone which could have been from any number of other titles.

 

[Mau ®]

Now, do you know Nintendogs got a 40 from Famitsu? Go and buy it!

I did... :/

 

[Zaptruder]

GTA games are hated on because GAF is full of zoo-ophiles.

 

[Amir0x]

Of course the colossi were incredible designs, I should clarify that. The hero was a typical effeminate clone which could have been from any number of other titles.

no really he couldn't have. I don't think you know what 'generic' or 'uninspired' means. I'm not trying to be mean or critical - I love GTA - but this is the most absurd criticism layed against Shadow of the Colossus. The only direct comparrison to the designs in Shadow of the Colossus characters are those from ICO, and the reason they look the same is very intentional and has to do with the storyline.

This != typical effeminate clone

They are arguably among the most original designs from this past generation. But please, if you can point me to the vast number of games which even APPROACH a similarity - other than the characters both being male, perhaps - maybe the foot will be able to stand on some ground.

 

[Ranger X]

GTA games are loved. GTA style games are generally hated on, because they just don't compare to GTA.

Truth is forbidden at GAF. Please edit.

 

[Nozi]

But please, if you can point me to the vast number of games which even APPROACH a similarity - other than the characters both being male, perhaps - maybe the foot will be able to stand on some ground.

 

[Amir0x]

he, uh, doesn't look remotely like the other two

 

[MGrant]

The Wanderer wasn't effeminate at all, especially by the end of SotC. The only character he bares resemblence to is Ico, but that's understandable, given the developer of the game and the similar theme of curses.

 

[anotheriori]

Exactly..

All the criticisms thrown at GTA in here are applicable to SOTC, even more so in most cases:

- framerate is way worse
- awkward controls on foot and on 'vehicle'
- much smaller world, with zero atmosphere and nothing to do
- clunky combat
- uninspired character design

Yet, even with all that, SOTC is a great game.

The framerate argument doesn't seem to work since the drops only occur when fighting against the colossi and as an effect if anything serves to make the encounter more dramatic. whereas in GTA (probably) it's very random.

Controls are awkward if you don't get used to them.

Find the colossi and take them down; that's your primary goal which GTA lacks imo. GTA simply feels like do a list of missions consisting of miscellanous tasks.

Combat, see controls.

The focus of the game is moreso of the colossi and the main character himself. These types of games which indirectly lets the player be the hero.

 

[Raiden]

I kinda liked GTA: Vice City, and loved/loving San Andreas, its my chillgame for whenever im bored, put on K DST or Radio X, jump on a Bike and travel. Can keep me occupied for a good hour or so.

 

[anotheriori]

If it were the exact same game, save for cosmetic changes that gave it a sci-fi or quirky J-pop back drop, and only sold 200k, this place would be in love with it.

The frame-rate drops, glitches etc...are excuses people consitently use to down GTA when they can say nothing else to debunk the series. The fact is, that those problems are so minor in the grand scope of the titles that if you're focused on them, than you're not even playing the games for enjoyment in the first place.

And this forum shouldn't talk about games "aging well" considering the majority around here would rather play a host of 16-bit revivals with touch screen features than anything truly innovative.

Maybe it's the fact that not everyone likes "omg big world find your own fun" sandbox games. Some people prefer focused games with polish. Even from a sandbox perspective, I admire Spore but I'm not that excited about it. I myself prefer hard, twitchy and technical type games with alot of depth; fighting, shooting, rhythm, puzzle, racing. I'm a little confused why GTA is so grand, sure I played the first 2 on PC and had my fun (pretty much GTA3 eventually became). I feel that people are making a big deal about it now is that most people lack the imagination neccessary to enjoy it back then. The game concepts are still pretty much the same from the old 2d ancestors.

People have different tastes, but here's something to think about. Just because something is popular does that mean it's good? I'd sooner equate GTA to Madden then to something like SotC. If it's popular people hate on it, if its niche people hate on it (or call it being a japanophile).

 

[GitarooMan]

People have different tastes, but here's something to think about. Just because something is popular does that mean it's good? I'd sooner equate GTA to Madden then to something like SotC. If it's popular people hate on it, if its niche people hate on it (or call it being a japanophile).

No it's not just good because it's popular, it's good because it's critically acclaimed and tons of people love it. As for the "sandbox" scope, to me just playing the main missions is fun and that lasts 30+ hours.

It's funny at the beginning of this thread I said I didn't think it was really that hated and I stand by that, but I'm still surprised at the pretty sizable group who do (although I admittedly predicted they would be drawn to this thread)

 

[anotheriori]

If by hated you mean feeling indifferent to it.. then yes I don't like it.

I guess my idea of fun though would sound boring to others is something like improving my lap times in a racing game or practicing combos in a fighting game, I feel that I'm improving my skills. I'm unsure what GTA is trying to offer me.

If it's freedom then I argue that it does it mediocre at best (considering how it's linear/mission based for the storyline) and that assaulting random people doesn't result it people getting revenge etc. I guess you could call it ahead of it's time, or doing it halfassedly.

It also seems like GTA is very shallow and is a jack of all trades master of none. Let me stop myself to inject; in someways maybe GTA is the western equivelent to JRPGs :lol they offer alot of ideas (more often not implemented just 'okay') offer a (usually mediocre) story/atmosphere setting and illusion of freedom in some vast large world. Of course they differ in that JPRGs are menu/stat driven and lots of puzzle/collecting and GTA well is a mismash of a few genres; shooter/racer/free roaming beat em up..?

 

[theREBELins]

GTA > Okami

 

[Grampasso]

Personally I just find GTA:SA boring after a few minutes gameplay. It was disappointing, I did enjoy GTAIII and went through all of it, I played GTA:VC for almost 75% of its length (I think) but I just can't play GTA:SA. Boring like hell, even with a bunch of new things (ehi now your stupid character can SWIM, omg! And the water doesn't look like acid :lol ). I'm one of those people some of you would call Japanophiles, and I can openly state it because it's true, Japanese games are usually more appealing to me, mostly for 2 big reasons: art style / chara design; difficulty. With the latter I mean that most western games have an "unfair" difficulty, and you can't actually learn to play them well enough. GTA is a clear example. Beside driving you don't actually "learn" to shoot or fight, it's a thing that you can learn to do at your best after a couple of hours. So as the game progresses you can't actually learn to play much better, and it becomes "unfairly" difficult for this reason (from my point of view). Obviously this doesn't affect every single western game (God of War, Metroid Prime) but most of them suffers for this thing that I consider a big flaw.

 

[Tain]

Obviously this doesn't affect every single western game (God of War, Metroid Prime) but most of them suffers for this thing that I consider a big flaw.

How many skill-based western games have you played? I'm not seeing this at all amongst the western games that I'd consider good.

 

[Grampasso]

How many skill-based western games have you played? I'm not seeing this at all amongst the western games that I'd consider good.

The two games I mentioned are just examples, they're not the only one I enjoy, obviously, but I rather play Japanese ones.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The framerate argument doesn't seem to work since the drops only occur when fighting against the colossi and as an effect if anything serves to make the encounter more dramatic.

in the same post...

Find the colossi and take them down; that's your primary goal

Hey guys, the framerate drops are exaggerated. Its not like they happen all the time, only when you are attempting to play the game!

 

[Amir0x]

in the same post...


Hey guys, the framerate drops are exaggerated. Its not like they happen all the time, only when you are attempting to play the game!

the next excuse: "if anything it serves to make the encounter more dramatic."

Confirmed: shitty framerates make encounters more dramatic :lol

 

[Ninja Scooter]

SOTC's frame rate is fine.

its horrible. Not to take anything away from the game, i actually enjoy it. But i can't understand how anyone can describe the framerate in SoTC, in this day and age, as anything less than horrible.

 

[Nozi]

The framerate argument doesn't seem to work since the drops only occur when fighting against the colossi and as an effect if anything serves to make the encounter more dramatic. whereas in GTA (probably) it's very random.

No, the framerate drops the moment the game starts and you look around the castle. Gimme a break,

 

[Ninja Scooter]

I think people who complain about SOTC's frame rate seriously are complaining just because they can. It can crawl at times but it's so rare that if you're absorbed into the game it should be no issue, and for a game that has such nice graphics as SOTC, the supposedly "awful" frame rate is something I can deal with.

You graphic whores are some of the most annoying gamers ever. "It's not 60fps at all times!1 WAHHHHHH!!"

STFU

what the **** are you talking about? The whole point im trying to make is that if you like a game, you can forgive its shortcomings. Just like GTA, SotC is no different. People get immersed into GTA's world and gameplay just like SotCs. Its no different just because its made in japan or is supposedly a "piece of art".

 

[Amir0x]

dude, Himuro, the game is sub 30fps almost the entire game.

And during the most critical moments, during Colossus battles, it's not shocking to find it at a consistent 15-20fps~

i've had even WORSE dips. that's not 'complaining for complaining' sake, Himuro. That's outright terrible. Shadow of the Colossus was not fit for PS2. Needs PS3.

 

[Amir0x]

Are you serious? It was never like that for me.

I think judging from your response that we're just 'complaining', you honestly just either are super un-sensitive to framerate drops, or you were having too much fun to notice. Which is fine, Shadow of the Colossus is a GREAT game, but the framerate drops were outright offensive.

 

[Bloodwake]

Honestly, I never had a problem with GTA.

Actually, out of most of my friends, I am the only one who respects the game and what it achieved. The humor is funny and there's actually a well-voiced storyline throughout most of them.

Casual gamers can run around and blow up shit and plug hookers. The guy looking for the story can go through the storyline and complete missions, which always seem to never get old.

Hell, Vice City had a ****ing brilliant soundtrack, but of course, I'm an 80's music whore, so I would think so.

 

[Oldschoolgamer]

SOTC's frame rate is fine.

Can I play it on your PS2 then?

 

[firefoxsux]

gta is not so hated. gta bans > ff bans here.

imo hate the game for game designs that appear to mainstreamers. if not for the *gansta-****-niggas-swearing* theme, the impressions would not be so high. too many fillers fetch carry missions with boring rage. crazy taxi > gta!

i have a better game in my brains. GPA. Great Postal Andy. a game story trilogy about a 13 yo boy who grow up to be a delivery magnate from city to state! no badical rage involved. oops seems the idea vulchers are circling!

 

[Nozi]

not for the *gansta-****-niggas-swearing* theme, the impressions would not be so high

Explain why every other 'gangsta' game and clone got such terrible reviews then?

 

[firefoxsux]

they are worser for the designs?

or just gta came first in the eyes of reviews?

cant say because my play time with them is very low.

sandbox gangsta games do not click for me so i have not put much thoughts to dissect every single one.

i only say the badical gangsta fuel gta sales.

 

[SolidSnakex]

i only say the badical gangsta fuel gta sales.

That's because the entire series is based around crime families. It's not like it started with GTASA.

 

[anotheriori]

I think judging from your response that we're just 'complaining', you honestly just either are super un-sensitive to framerate drops, or you were having too much fun to notice. Which is fine, Shadow of the Colossus is a GREAT game, but the framerate drops were outright offensive.

Well considering the amount of technical feats that are 'impossible' on the PS2 without shaders and such this was the best that the SotC team could pull off. I'm sure they had to decide either to scale down the colossi or have lower framerate. I'm glad I got to play it and I still think its a good game reguardless of frame dips.

 

[beelzebozo]

cuz the game is teh suxorz and handles like pantser tanx lollers

(seriously, i hate these games.)

 

[Nameless]

Maybe it's the fact that not everyone likes "omg big world find your own fun" sandbox games. Some people prefer focused games with polish. Even from a sandbox perspective, I admire Spore but I'm not that excited about it. I myself prefer hard, twitchy and technical type games with alot of depth; fighting, shooting, rhythm, puzzle, racing. I'm a little confused why GTA is so grand, sure I played the first 2 on PC and had my fun (pretty much GTA3 eventually became). I feel that people are making a big deal about it now is that most people lack the imagination neccessary to enjoy it back then. The game concepts are still pretty much the same from the old 2d ancestors.

People have different tastes, but here's something to think about. Just because something is popular does that mean it's good? I'd sooner equate GTA to Madden then to something like SotC. If it's popular people hate on it, if its niche people hate on it (or call it being a japanophile).

You see, the modern GTA games can't be restricted to "sandbox titles". Hulk, Spiderman etc.. are sandbox games. By definitition, a sand box is useless without the person manipulating it. GTA is different. In GTA there is a loose set of underlying rules in which both the player and A.I. adhere to. You can literally just stand there and see all sorts of shenanigans happen, as the A.I. interacts with each other and the world in a non-scripted fashion. The Halo series is similar to a lesser extent.

You have to admit, though, that around here cynicism is at it's peak when a mainstream game/ popular game is being discussed, where as obscure titles with quirky art-direction, and a tedious take on old gameplay concepts get a free pass.

 

[ConsumerSquare]

You guys are sort of making me want to try San Andreas. The problem is that I didn't really dig Vice City (the only one I've played). I have three questions:

1. Are the controls improved?
2. Does SA still have motorcycles?
3. Xbox or PS2?