I would honestly not be surprised if that wack creative committee mandated that all the villains be expendable.
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Why are Marvel's film villains so hit and miss?
- Thread starter NotTheGuyYouKill
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I would honestly not be surprised if that wack creative committee mandated that all the villains be expendable.
the problem ultimately lies in the existence of the MCU itself. Everything has to be intertwined, movies churned out quickly before the audience gets distracted, stakes always toned down because there's the next Cap movie planned so you only get a little bit of this and that...its a behemoth that needs to keep moving, no room for character development nor finesse nor definitive dramatic battles. Landscape has changed drastically since the Raimi days and the movies reflect that
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Yeah, he was clever and one of the better ones, but he still felt quite flat and mustache-twirling by the end.
LiquidSolid
Member
Doc Ock? If you're counting him then you may as well count Magneto.
If we're talking MCU then there's no hits, just consistent misses. The closest they got to a hit was Loki, but then they just had to milk him so much that he wore out his bag of tricks and welcome along with it. I can't stand him now.
If we're talking MCU then there's no hits, just consistent misses. The closest they got to a hit was Loki, but then they just had to milk him so much that he wore out his bag of tricks and welcome along with it. I can't stand him now.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
Loki isn't interesting at all. He's there to please the squeeing fans. For a trickster he's super untricky.
Manmademan
Member
I'm perfectly fine with cross being one and done. Much better villains out there. Circus of crime or bust
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Ah yeah, forgot about that. Hope they put it to good use.
I really liked Bridges as Stane. He's the best 'asshole in a suit' villain they've had.
Yep, I was thinking they maybe did something along those lines.
Discotheque
Banned
Tony Stark built this in a cave...with a box of scraps! is the best quote mcu has produced yet (and the best delivery tbh)
Iron Man 1 is still MCU goat. makes me miss how standalone this genre used to feel.
Iron Man 1 is still MCU goat. makes me miss how standalone this genre used to feel.
Okay yeah, I can dig that. It all went bad in the third act, like so many mcu movies.
Isn't it said somewhere in the comics that Spider-Man subconciously holds back to avoid punching people's heads off?
Even if they aren't Batman level, other heroes still have a bunch of great villains. Captain America's rogues gallery is surprisingly strong, especially since it tended to cross over with the type of people that Nick Fury took on.
There's a ton of stuff you can do with Thor. I don't think Malekith would have even made my top 10 villain ideas for him.
Guardians is wide open.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
He's just some amnesiac friend of Caps. With MCU villains you're told their motivation in some dumb exposition or backflash and then that's it, they don't attempt explore it at all and instead stick in some ugly action set pieces, but hey, Captain America fought his friend in a teary battle while trying to prevent helicarriers from killing key figures around the world that would lead to Hydra Dominance.
Manmademan
Member
Many times. Spidey fights human villains all the time and aims to disable or KO, not kill them.
Discotheque
Banned
if marvel got off favreau's back iron man 2 would have been legendary with rockwell/rourke.
rockwell is prolly second best mcu villain after jeff bridges for me tbh. even if it's a bit wasted he's just too good.
Why do people expect every villain to be "complex" and have pathos?
It's nice to give them texture and layers instead of having them be 1 dimensional, but that doesn't necessarily mean every villain has to be complex.
Complex villains are interesting as characters which is appreciated, but that alone doesn't always automatically make a villain great.
It's nice to give them texture and layers instead of having them be 1 dimensional, but that doesn't necessarily mean every villain has to be complex.
Complex villains are interesting as characters which is appreciated, but that alone doesn't always automatically make a villain great.
Spidey has a great rogue's gallery. Better than X-Men.
Dark Ninja
Member
Glorified jobbers, one of them needs a win.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Creative committee still had some say in Civil War IIRC. Real real MCU starts with Doctor Strange.
Zaran The Weapon Master
Riposte
Member
Great aesthetic (Wesker-esque, dare I say it), take no bullshit type villainy, and interesting motive/origin that flips common themes on their head. Decent right hand man and henchmen. His ending was kind of iffy though.
Manmademan
Member
Oh I know. I made a thread about that once. Very entertaining, though batman fans got their jimmies rustled.
Imagine how ridiculous caps gallery would be if COBRA had been Hydra, as originally conceived? How Cap vs COBRA hasn't happened yet I'll never know
lol so you wont include things that are actually in the MCU but you include Doc Ock, sounds stupid to me.
If they ever make an Iron Man 4, they gotta bring back Rockwell
Can't really fucking wait
roflwaffles
Member
Stane was actually enjoyable until they put him in the Iron Monger suit - then he lost everything that made him at all compelling.
I don't find that many Marvel villains are compelling in general in the comics, aside from a few amazing ones that they can't use - Magneto, Doom, Mr Sinister, Goblin, etc.
People say Spider-Man has the second best rogues gallery, but TBH I don't see it. It's better than most, but not as good as X-Men's IMO.
I don't find that many Marvel villains are compelling in general in the comics, aside from a few amazing ones that they can't use - Magneto, Doom, Mr Sinister, Goblin, etc.
People say Spider-Man has the second best rogues gallery, but TBH I don't see it. It's better than most, but not as good as X-Men's IMO.
Brian_FETO
Banned
The only MCU villains I've really enjoyed are Winter Soldier, Ultron, and Abomination. Badasses who actually seem like a threat. Abomination just has to get stronger, like Vegeta or something.
Ronan is trash tier. He doesn't do fucking anything. He's supposed to challenge Thanos or something but gets beaten by Starlord saying a swear word. Nebula is sick as hell, until the time comes for her to actually do anything, then it's a joke just like everything else in Guardians. Weak
Loki is really boring to me and I feel like he's just there for people to make gifs of him
Ronan is trash tier. He doesn't do fucking anything. He's supposed to challenge Thanos or something but gets beaten by Starlord saying a swear word. Nebula is sick as hell, until the time comes for her to actually do anything, then it's a joke just like everything else in Guardians. Weak
Loki is really boring to me and I feel like he's just there for people to make gifs of him
Nerdkiller
Membeur
Alright, I'll say it, am I the one guy who thinks Red Skull is a better villain than Loki? Sometimes, all you need for an effective villain is to have him be irredeemably evil.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Trailer tomorrow! Let's hope they go absolutely fucking nuts with it.
Riposte
Member
He has a handful of cool moments, played by a good actor, but not enough going on for my taste. He certainly disappointed from an nemesis point of view. Maybe Zemo will pick up the slack.
Reptars Revenge
Member
Thanos: Purple asshole
DC also could be trying harder
Joker: anarachy asshole
Ras: justice and balance asshole
Bane: cuckold asshole
Zod: go to Mars ass hole
Captain America and Dr Strange probably won't have memorable Villians but suicide squad will have tons.
DC also could be trying harder
Joker: anarachy asshole
Ras: justice and balance asshole
Bane: cuckold asshole
Zod: go to Mars ass hole
Captain America and Dr Strange probably won't have memorable Villians but suicide squad will have tons.
echoshifting
Banned
A robot walks into a bar, orders a drink, and lays down some cash.
Bartender says, "Hey, we don't serve robots."
And the robot says, "Oh, but someday you will."
Can people even agree on what a good villain is? Or who has been a good villain?
The fact I see how much people want complex villains and then say that Darth Vader and Heath Ledger's Joker rank among the greatest film villains ever makes me think people don't know what they want in a villain.
The fact I see how much people want complex villains and then say that Darth Vader and Heath Ledger's Joker rank among the greatest film villains ever makes me think people don't know what they want in a villain.
echoshifting
Banned
My man. I like them equally though. Red Skull looked so goddamn good on screen
Yeah, it's a damn shame we will probably never see him again. Definitely top-tier.
fallengorn
Bitches love smiley faces
Oh yeah...
Baron Mordo is probably going to be sticking around. Especially if he's helping Strange in his first film.
We've come a long way from Italian Red Skull.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
"We fought to the last man."
"Evidently not."
*Blam*
"Evidently not."
*Blam*
Yep! If Doctor Strange and Civil War are indicators of how they'll handle their villains from now on, then I am quite excited.
Most people want someone who looks cool, comes off as a real and believable threat, and delivers a memorable performance.
Vader and Joker hit those. Ronan, not so much.
He said the MCU, which Doc Ock is not a part of.
And yet they will be played more like anti-heroes and it's possible we never see them actually playing the "villain" role on film.
We've seen the reformed heroes before, and it doesn't necessarily make them "villians" in this day and age.
Subpar Spatula
Banned
They're still villains. It's their shtick to break free from the squad. It's not like they're going to finish the mission, go back to Waller, put on a suit, and become a government agent.
What did he mean by this?
Member
They feel that giving screen time to villain takes away from hero that will continue on in future movies.
But now with the potential for a Thunderbolts movie building everyday, expect them to be better -- starting with Zemo.
Edit: this might be miscontrued as a spoiler, i dont know what happens in the flick. I dont expect Zemo to die
But now with the potential for a Thunderbolts movie building everyday, expect them to be better -- starting with Zemo.
Edit: this might be miscontrued as a spoiler, i dont know what happens in the flick. I dont expect Zemo to die
Hit and Miss? Just about every MCU villain is a giant miss. They are maybe, what, 3/12?
Even Thanos, got undermined by that chump Ronan. Dude took his Infinity Stone out from under him... didn't do anything about it lol.
Not only that, but that's our first real scene with him and a chump like Ronan doesn't fear him, why should the audience? If you wanted to build Thanos, they could've made him fear Thanos, and keep the stone with fear hoping it would protect him. Instead they Marvel'd...
It's an issue, but one Marvel doesn't seem to care about... they've managed to craft a lot of good/great/amazing movies without consistently delivering a good villain, why stop now?
Also, Red Skull > Loki. Loki is charismatic but Red Skull the better villain.
They've spent so much time developing Tony and Steve, might as well play each other against each other and forgo a real villain.
Even Thanos, got undermined by that chump Ronan. Dude took his Infinity Stone out from under him... didn't do anything about it lol.
Not only that, but that's our first real scene with him and a chump like Ronan doesn't fear him, why should the audience? If you wanted to build Thanos, they could've made him fear Thanos, and keep the stone with fear hoping it would protect him. Instead they Marvel'd...
It's an issue, but one Marvel doesn't seem to care about... they've managed to craft a lot of good/great/amazing movies without consistently delivering a good villain, why stop now?
Also, Red Skull > Loki. Loki is charismatic but Red Skull the better villain.
They've spent so much time developing Tony and Steve, might as well play each other against each other and forgo a real villain.
echoshifting
Banned
Set your expectations to "very low" for Zemo. He's not even the only villain in the movie and it's not even about villains. No way he gets the screen time to do him justice.
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