Twig and Berries
Member
A-Force was an attempt at an all female Avengers squad which fizzled. I think there was a Heroes for Hire book at some point with a mostly female team.
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Why are Marvel's Superheroines Less Popular than DC?
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
A-Force was an attempt at an all female Avengers squad which fizzled. I think there was a Heroes for Hire book at some point with a mostly female team.
This is an extreme point to take. They have A lot of women in their roster, they just have had less success when trying to push them as solo series characters. They do some good female led book (Widow, Electra and Scarlet Witch are recent ones)- but people don't always seem to respond; Mockingbird and A-Force for example.
Marvel isn't the strongest with pushing their women, but a lot of their characters originated and work well in a team dynamic in general so they've never really been developed from the ground up- Sue Storm, one of the oldest they have, and her role in the 4 is integral; but on her own, she's less engaging, much like the rest of the Four. Women play prominent roles in nearly all of their major team series. Right now Khan's Ms. Marvel (and Jessica Jones to a degree) is the closest thing they've had to a brand new woman in a long time.
Conversely, DC has a lot of what was initially gender flipped versions of their male heroes (even their independent Wonder Woman was basically 3rd string to the "big strong men" for a long long time), but they all got their own fleshed out backstories and became their own characters that stood apart over a long time.
Danvers gets so much flack because she's one of their least interesting characters, but I guess the response to her repeated solo books is enough that marvel keeps trying, in the past when they've attempted they usually end the book after sales are stagnant.
GuitarAtomik
Member
I think besides not having too big a push in the comics, they haven't been featured all that much outside of them. Look at how much Black Widow's popularity jumped after being in the movies. Even in cartoons before then, there hasn't been too much representation or focus on the female characters outside of X-Men. Meanwhile you have Batgirl being established in the mainstream since the 60's TV show along with Catwoman and being a staple since, Wonder Woman getting her own live action show in the 70's and being a main member on Superfriends, Supergirl had her own movie even if it was mostly forgotten, Harley Quinn getting a big focus in both cartoons and comics since being introduced. So on so forth. Hard to say that about many Marvel females (again, outside of X-Men). Outside of the relatively better representation push of the last 10 years or so, what other multimedia Marvel superhero females are there with decent representation? Invisible Woman I guess?
Pretty much
excelsiorlef
Member
Now maybe but 80s and early 90s X-Women were some of the most popular characters period.
Let get one thing straight : Next to tv and movies, NOBODY reads comics.
So the easiest way for characters to be popular is to appear outside of comics, like a 70's tv show or a CBS/CW tv show with a cute actress in the main role.
X-men aside, Quake, Elektra and Jessica Jones are probably the most famous Marvel heroines because well .. they appeared outside of comics =P
She Hulk, Squirrel Girl, SpiderGwen and Kamala have HUGE potential for movies, specially because they tap into genres ignored by the superhero genre, like court dramas and YA Women
So the easiest way for characters to be popular is to appear outside of comics, like a 70's tv show or a CBS/CW tv show with a cute actress in the main role.
X-men aside, Quake, Elektra and Jessica Jones are probably the most famous Marvel heroines because well .. they appeared outside of comics =P
She Hulk, Squirrel Girl, SpiderGwen and Kamala have HUGE potential for movies, specially because they tap into genres ignored by the superhero genre, like court dramas and YA Women
Ha the point of this thread, I hope could have worded it poorly is to find out why. Like I accept DC's is more well-known, but why is that.
The two movies she's been in, she's only said 5 minutes of material each?
She's also a pretty straightforward "levitation" character. Her actual powers make her somebody that can alter probability or reality (much like Domino, whose mutation can influence "luck").
Basically at her full extent she would've curb stomped Tony's team on her own.
But they also nerfed Gamora and Drax hardcore.
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Thank God you said animated. It's funny how a popular characters like Harley Quinn/X-23 can come from a cartoon but modern Marvel doesn't take advantage of the medium.
Twig and Berries
Member
It's one of the BIG advantages DC has had for years due to their partnership with WB animation. You'd think Disney would now provide the same access to quality animation but nope. Disney don't care.
Somebody else more knowledgable will have to chime in, but I'm not sure how powerful Scarlet Witch was in her early appearances. I'm much more familiar with her modern power set which is the full blown reality warping but I'm not sure if that's always been the case or if her powers have always been as game breaking as her contemporary power set.
The irony is Marvel does and has had more shows airing than DC for about 5 years now
At most DC has had 2 shows at a time
GLTAS/Young Justice
Teen Titans Go/Beware the Batman
Teen Titans Go/JLA
Whereas Marvel has had 3-4
Avengers EMH/Ultimate Spider-man
Avengers Assemble/Ultimate Spidey/Hulk Agents of Smash
Avengers Assemble/Ult Spidey/GoTG
Avengers Assemble/Spider-man/GoTG
Squirrel Girl is getting a Freefrom TV show (with others), the She Hulk rights lie with Universal, Spider Gwen is with Sony and God knows when they will get to her and Kamala would require a complete and total change of the character and her origin story.
Twig and Berries
Member
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I don't remmeber Marvel having anything animated in the last 40 years that had a female superhero as a main character. They might have, but it wasn't noteworthy.
Meanwhile DC has had Super Friends and the DCAU. Barbara Gordon got a big boost in popularity thanks to Batman: The Animated Series.
Meanwhile DC has had Super Friends and the DCAU. Barbara Gordon got a big boost in popularity thanks to Batman: The Animated Series.
AdventureRacing
Member
MugiwaraCole
Member
Problem is, only EMH was worth writing home about.
I don't understand why they can't get animation right. Throw enough money at the creators involved to get a premium product.
Grizzlyjin
Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
Yep. She was the #1 Halloween costume in 2015, a year before Suicide Squad came out. It was primarily the SS version, but you know something is hot when people are dressing up as a character a year out from the movie.
Wonder Woman, Batgirl, Poison Ivy, Catwoman, and Supergirl are the same way. You can sell costumes and merchandise for them anytime, they don't need a corresponding TV show or film to sell that stuff.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
I said I think it's because of the cartoons. BTAS, STAS, JL, JLU, etc.
Pandora012
Member
Clearly someone isn't watching Avengers Assemble!
That art is atrocious.
Doesn't the Marvel stuff mostly suck tho?
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
DrROBschiz
Member
Because they havent been given their own movie?
I dunno
I dunno
BigJonsson
Member
Well, marvel couldn't use x-men, spidey, F4 so they were forced to go the avengers route
RuinerPrime
Member
I really like Carol Danvers. The character needs better writers.
X-Men TAS
Spider-man TAS
X-Men Evolution
Avengers EMH
Ha my point is... I think just making a product doesn't help elevate a character. It has to be something that fans can latch onto.
And Marvel for the longest time has gone with least-common denominator for their animation output. Aimed squarely at kids who don't care with no real desire to "Graduate" their fans
Poodlestrike
Banned
A ton of Marvel's superheroine roster is rooted in team books, which makes it harder for them to break out as individual superstars. DC's, on the other hand, tend to be independent spinoffs of existing franchises (Supergirl, Batgirl, Harley), or straight up solo acts like Wondy.
Ultimately I guess it mostly comes down to one company having Wonder Woman and the other one not; she's most of the mindshare difference, honestly.
Ultimately I guess it mostly comes down to one company having Wonder Woman and the other one not; she's most of the mindshare difference, honestly.
DC actually tried outside of comics, unlike Marvel who gave up after the X-Men cartoon show.
Even just look at the movies. We're four movies into the DCEU and have both a Wonder Woman film and a Suicide Squad movie largely associated with Harley Quinn. They also have upcoming films such as Batgirl, Wonder Woman 2, Gotham City Sirens, and Suicide Squad 2.
Meanwhile, the MCU has been going since 2008, has 16 films, and we're not expected to get a female lead movie until 2019.
Even just look at the movies. We're four movies into the DCEU and have both a Wonder Woman film and a Suicide Squad movie largely associated with Harley Quinn. They also have upcoming films such as Batgirl, Wonder Woman 2, Gotham City Sirens, and Suicide Squad 2.
Meanwhile, the MCU has been going since 2008, has 16 films, and we're not expected to get a female lead movie until 2019.
Pandora012
Member
It just sucks. They used to make awesome animated shows, and then they just disappeared. Loved all four of those shows. Even when Spiderman could get iffy.
The only female Marvel superheroes I as a causal comic book reader am aware of are;
Spider-Woman,
Silk,
Spider-Girl,
(Urgh) Spider-Gwen,
Ms Marvel,
Captain Marvel,
Black Widow,
Black Cat,
Invisible Girl,
Madam Web,
She-Hulk,
Scarlet Witch,
Storm,
Jean Grey,
(urgh) Jackpot,
Psylock,
Silver Sable,
Though I just tend to stick with Spider-Man so most of them came into my radar via other medium or when they appeared in Spider-Man but DC however I am aware of some of them due to my exposure to the DCAU.
Nah Spider-Gwen is boring, Silk is the better character that Marvel should try and bring into the big big screen.
Spider-Woman,
Silk,
Spider-Girl,
(Urgh) Spider-Gwen,
Ms Marvel,
Captain Marvel,
Black Widow,
Black Cat,
Invisible Girl,
Madam Web,
She-Hulk,
Scarlet Witch,
Storm,
Jean Grey,
(urgh) Jackpot,
Psylock,
Silver Sable,
Though I just tend to stick with Spider-Man so most of them came into my radar via other medium or when they appeared in Spider-Man but DC however I am aware of some of them due to my exposure to the DCAU.
Nah Spider-Gwen is boring, Silk is the better character that Marvel should try and bring into the big big screen.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Um, why?
Pandora012
Member
Boy do I sure miss 90's era Rogue
Current Rogue is still awesome.
Gunslinger
Member
I think almost all popular female heroes in marvel are X-Men. But isn't X-Men now almost extinct in marvel? They are pushing inhumans super hard aren't they? To replace mutants. How is that working out for them?
The Silver
Member
DC is so much better at having their sidekick/legacy and "genderflipped" characters break away and have success as their own characters.
Ms Marvel is like the big exception for Marvel. Miles was another success which can be partly attributed to the fact Ultimate gave them the freedom to actually kill off Peter for good and put all the eggs in Miles. Where as a Riri Williams is a ticking time bomb ready to fade away when Tony comes back in full force.
Ms Marvel is like the big exception for Marvel. Miles was another success which can be partly attributed to the fact Ultimate gave them the freedom to actually kill off Peter for good and put all the eggs in Miles. Where as a Riri Williams is a ticking time bomb ready to fade away when Tony comes back in full force.
Translation : Squirrel Girl was trown one step back, She Hulk cannot get her own movie so she will not appear in any other, SpiderGwen is with Sony and Kamala would require basic comic to movie adaptation
Unspeakable Evil
Member
Because no one watches it!Clearly someone isn't watching Avengers Assemble!
You can't do the character without having had Captain Marvel around for years and without the Inhumans at the very minimum.
They're also not doing a good job following up on Ms. Marvel.
Where's her solo or Champions cartoon? What about a Champions game? Is there a huge merchandizing push? Why isn't she in the MCU?
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Haven't seen EMH but when I think about women from those other shows I think Mary Jane, Black Cat, Rogue and Storm. When I think of DCAU I think Harley, Batgirl, Poison Ivy, Lois Lane, Amanda Waller, Catwoman, WW, Hawkgirl, Raven, Supergirl, Black Canary, Huntress, etc. I remember great storylines and episodes with those characters that none of the marvel toons could touch. They also just do more with their female characters in general and not just cartoons.
darkhunger
Member
Huh? The various X-Men and Avengers cartoons all featured females quite prominently, and in some case make them a POV character even. Heck even going as far back as Spidey and his Amazing Friends you have Firebird as a main character.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
How's her personality currently?