LSauchelli
Member
Warner should hire you. Yes, please.
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Why are Superman games so god damn bad
- Thread starter Phediuk
- Start date
Andodalf
Banned
This is how I feel about superman in general, but he can be made fun. See all star superman. Now how does that translate into a game? Idk.
No, Batman has had good games since pretty much from the start. A few stinkers, yes, but a waaaaaaaaaay better track record than Superman.
Poodlestrike
Banned
This. There were never any good Batman games until there were. Superman is doable, he just needs the proper care and world building.
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Batman has always had good games, sir.
voodoopanda
Member
The best Superman stories are ones where he's up against a threat he can't beat just by hitting it hard enough. But in video games, your ability to interact with the world is usually limited to press X to hit things. It seems counter-intuitive but it seems like a Superman game that didn't focus on combat could be fun.
Brutalitops
Banned
Because Superman sucks
Haeralis The BRave
Banned
Get back to work, Luthor. You still haven't worked off your debt for that cake fiasco.
Superman Returns got the closest to making a feasible Superman game, treating the city of Metropolis as an open world and as your health bar.
Expanding on that, and having you not only engaged in combat but also trying to protect civilians could make for an interesting game.
And if you aren't attached to the idea of being fully fledged Superman from minute one, the discovery of your powers could make for a good sense of progression.
Expanding on that, and having you not only engaged in combat but also trying to protect civilians could make for an interesting game.
And if you aren't attached to the idea of being fully fledged Superman from minute one, the discovery of your powers could make for a good sense of progression.
I hate that people always claim that Superman is "too powerful" to make a good videogame. It's utter nonsense.
You can artificially limit his power and few people will give a shit if it's a good game. Nobody cares that Catwoman or Batgirl can beat up Superman in Injustice. Wolverine gets the crap kicked out of him all the time in videogames and nobody cares that his uber-healing abilities are largely disregarded by the game.
Alternatively, you can come up with some dumb plot device ("A Kryptonite dirty bomb went off!") that limits his power and abilities. Or you can set alternate failure conditions that don't rely on Superman being beaten up by goons and thugs ("Must save hostages in 4 minutes").
The real reason that Superman games are bad is because the IP has never fallen into the hands of a competent developer. That's all.
You can artificially limit his power and few people will give a shit if it's a good game. Nobody cares that Catwoman or Batgirl can beat up Superman in Injustice. Wolverine gets the crap kicked out of him all the time in videogames and nobody cares that his uber-healing abilities are largely disregarded by the game.
Alternatively, you can come up with some dumb plot device ("A Kryptonite dirty bomb went off!") that limits his power and abilities. Or you can set alternate failure conditions that don't rely on Superman being beaten up by goons and thugs ("Must save hostages in 4 minutes").
The real reason that Superman games are bad is because the IP has never fallen into the hands of a competent developer. That's all.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Honestly, his power level is such a non issue. There are tons of games with protagonists who are on Superman's level. It's just a matter of building the game the right way.
But I think that can open the game up to have some segments beyond just the standard punchy, punchy. Like having a puzzle segment where Supes has to trick Mxyzptlk (since Superman can't exactly punch Mxy away). Or a fight with Parasite where you have to defeat him without touching him. Or having segments where he has three or so objectives to complete at once and the player has to figure out how to best use his powers to accomplish them.
And when you need a level to punch something, there's always Mongul.
Thats interesting enough. Quite a common RPG/Adventure game thing too.
LumpOfCole
Member
The only way to do a Superman properly is make the game centered around the Red Sun because of an array of satellites Lex Luthor has put into place. The more satellites you take down, the less the sun appears red and Superman gets more and more of his powers back (sort of like a Metroid game). By the end of the game, you basically have god mode but then you have to fight Brainiac or Darkseid or something.
Spring-Loaded
Member
I think people are giving up too easily when it comes to this topic. I'm not saying it would be easy to make an uncompromising Superman game, but even still. You'd have to find a good way to implement saving people/Metropolis on a moment to moment basis that isn't frustrating, and is, in itself, fun. Then periodically have segments where supes can cut loose. Having some kind of "gear shift" where 1st gear has Superman holding back so when he punches someone, it's really weak, and so forth. or maybe have contextual power where punching a tank will use less strength than punching Darkseid.
If that doesn't work though...
then this would have my full support. I can just imagine having to control the power of his steps, else you'll destroy the floor of the daily planet. Maybe have a segment where you have to write a story without crushing the keyboard, or shake someone's hand.
If that doesn't work though...
then this would have my full support. I can just imagine having to control the power of his steps, else you'll destroy the floor of the daily planet. Maybe have a segment where you have to write a story without crushing the keyboard, or shake someone's hand.
The Hulk games work because one he doesn't fly and two he fucks things up including the city. I suppose one of those things can work if the game takes place in MoS movie where Superman fucks up the entire city and the game ends with him kissing Lois Lane with the destroyed city in the background.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
I don't understand why it's so difficult. Superman is about protecting people so you'd lose by letting people die. You come to a hostage situation and you decide to burst through the door, the criminal shoots the hostage and you lose. Go underground and tag him from below. If you're doing an escort mission and you decide to go through a gang of thugs with bullets, the bullets would ricochet off you and kill the person you're supposed to be protecting, instead use heat vision or freeze breath on their weapons. If you're fighting someone in a populated area you have to be careful not to destroy a lot of buildings. Take him out as quick and clean as possible. You could still die though from enemies with superpowers, magic, or the use of kryptonite.
MiketheBSG
Member
I thought Death and Return of Superman was pretty good.
Lois: How do you spell "trancendent?"
Choose:
1. Spell the word.
2. "Why don't you pick up a fucking dictionary? God, how'd you even get this job?"
3. "I'm Superman."
The third option is always "I'm Superman."
That's kind of how Returns was. Superman didn't have a health bar; but Metropolis did. It made for an interesting mechanic, but it still wasn't a very good game.
Because a good developer hasn't had a crack at it and actually tried to make something worthwhile. Maybe it's because they simply don't care enough and there hasn't been any real interest in making a proper game about him. I'm sure if there ever is someone passionate about making a game for him, and it's someone talented enough, they'd be able to pull it off well. Ideas aren't hard to come by, it's about the execution and getting the right team behind the game. Superman just hasn't had that.
He flies, he's super strong, he's super fast, and shoots lasers from his eyes. The gameplay alone would be good enough to hide other potential flaws. Sky's the limit and all that.
For people who say, 'He's too strong. You can't make a good game out of that.' Just shut up. Please stop embarrassing the human race just because you don't have a creative cell in your body and are incapable.
He flies, he's super strong, he's super fast, and shoots lasers from his eyes. The gameplay alone would be good enough to hide other potential flaws. Sky's the limit and all that.
For people who say, 'He's too strong. You can't make a good game out of that.' Just shut up. Please stop embarrassing the human race just because you don't have a creative cell in your body and are incapable.
Because video games have a hard time doing the things that actually makes Superman, well, Superman?
Video games can do his powers, easily. Superspeed has been done, super strength, invulnerability, heat vision, frost breath, super senses. All have some kinds of precedent in video games already. But if you just make a video game with a character that has those powers, it will be boring. If you want Superman, you have to focus on the man.
Consider this for a Superman moment: Superman is hovering in the sky above Metropolis, he's barely moving, and looks alert. Suddenly, he's gone, a red and blue streak speeding towards a back alley somewhere as he catches a bullet he saw being fired by a common thug during a mugging gone bad. He quickly subdues the bad guy. However, while doing so, Superman hears the sound of a small car impacting a tree in the opposite end of the city. He can hear that the driver's heart has stopped. The accident was fatal. Superman COULD have saved that man, but then he wouldn't have been able to stop the murder in progress here. Superman made a choice. Someone lived, someone died. Superman makes that choice several times each day. And as Clark Kent, he sometimes has to choose to save neither.
That's Superman. He can't save everyone, but he knows they're suffering and dying... because he chose to be elsewhere. If you can turn THAT into a game. Making the hard choices, living with deciding who lives and dies, on a daily basis. Then you have made a Superman game.
And that also means that his powers, as fantastic as they are, don't really matter that much. If Superman chooses to do something, he can, except being everywhere at the same time. It would be a fascinating game, but probably not one that sells a lot. But imagine having to choose over and over and over. What do you choose? What is Superman to YOU? A diehard crimefighter? A defender of the weak? A guardian angel? Or a mild-mannered reporter at the Daily Planet?
Because being Clark Kent is also a choice Superman makes. It keeps him grounded. But while he's playing human, he is deliberately ignoring people in need. And he has to. It's his time off from the sensory overload of being able to see and hear every little accident, crime, or other emergency that Superman could solve.
So yeah. An open world Superman game done with an eye for this would be immensely fascinating. But I doubt it'd be that fun. Then again, being Superman? Probably isn't that fun either.
Video games can do his powers, easily. Superspeed has been done, super strength, invulnerability, heat vision, frost breath, super senses. All have some kinds of precedent in video games already. But if you just make a video game with a character that has those powers, it will be boring. If you want Superman, you have to focus on the man.
Consider this for a Superman moment: Superman is hovering in the sky above Metropolis, he's barely moving, and looks alert. Suddenly, he's gone, a red and blue streak speeding towards a back alley somewhere as he catches a bullet he saw being fired by a common thug during a mugging gone bad. He quickly subdues the bad guy. However, while doing so, Superman hears the sound of a small car impacting a tree in the opposite end of the city. He can hear that the driver's heart has stopped. The accident was fatal. Superman COULD have saved that man, but then he wouldn't have been able to stop the murder in progress here. Superman made a choice. Someone lived, someone died. Superman makes that choice several times each day. And as Clark Kent, he sometimes has to choose to save neither.
That's Superman. He can't save everyone, but he knows they're suffering and dying... because he chose to be elsewhere. If you can turn THAT into a game. Making the hard choices, living with deciding who lives and dies, on a daily basis. Then you have made a Superman game.
And that also means that his powers, as fantastic as they are, don't really matter that much. If Superman chooses to do something, he can, except being everywhere at the same time. It would be a fascinating game, but probably not one that sells a lot. But imagine having to choose over and over and over. What do you choose? What is Superman to YOU? A diehard crimefighter? A defender of the weak? A guardian angel? Or a mild-mannered reporter at the Daily Planet?
Because being Clark Kent is also a choice Superman makes. It keeps him grounded. But while he's playing human, he is deliberately ignoring people in need. And he has to. It's his time off from the sensory overload of being able to see and hear every little accident, crime, or other emergency that Superman could solve.
So yeah. An open world Superman game done with an eye for this would be immensely fascinating. But I doubt it'd be that fun. Then again, being Superman? Probably isn't that fun either.
voodoopanda
Member
The Papers, Please of Superman games.
Pretty much, yeah. Except the stakes are for an entire city/the world, and you can fly.
So have Super man vs the New Gods? There are also plenty of earth based villans that can fight superman. Parasite (can absorb his power), Lex in kryptonite suit, Metolo (kryptonite powered android), Black Adam. Also the idea of the city having health is not a bad idea.
And tell me what super hero movie had the main hero at risk of death. There are none, they are movies that people want to make into franchises. The Hero wont die. Batman is more invincible then superman at this point anyway. A god shot batman with an anti life beam and all it did to batman is send him through time to where he still saves the day.
So true. You just cannot win with a Superman game.
Go on then develop us a great Superman game.
TheGoddamn
Member
Isn't Superman's lack of restrictions a restriction in itself? Superman Returns had the right idea. Superman was invincible, but Metropolis was the one with the health bar. You had to juggle threats and keep the city "alive", so to speak. That's Superman's dilemma, really-- if you have all this power, which problem do you solve?
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Are people serious when they say they enjoyed the arcade game?! How? It was absolute garbage.
EA's Returns was the closest we've ever gotten to a good Superman game and that was nothing special either.
It's just too difficult to do. I would imagine something like Asura's Wrath, where there's a focus on Superman performing ridiculous feats in frenzied button mashing gameplay. Lots of QTE stuff with a very heavy "arcade" feel to it.
EA's Returns was the closest we've ever gotten to a good Superman game and that was nothing special either.
It's just too difficult to do. I would imagine something like Asura's Wrath, where there's a focus on Superman performing ridiculous feats in frenzied button mashing gameplay. Lots of QTE stuff with a very heavy "arcade" feel to it.
That's true, it really had a ton of potential, I had a bit of fun with Superman Returns actually.
Sigh.
The same old same old. Things never change.
That's right Rei, no one will listen, they're just going to repost the same junk over and over again. #closedminds
Make It like shadow of the colossus. He needs to travel to an alternate dimension to retrieve an artifact to revive Lois who has been killed by brainiac. The only way to retrieved It is by defeating 13 powerful foes that can beat him to a pulp. He needs to use all his super powers and intellect to stand a chance.
;-)
;-)
This has come up a few times and I think The Amazing Spider-Man 2 shows that basing a game around the idea of protecting a city can feel like an unfulfilling grind. To be clear, that game has issues that just about anyone could fix. But it does illustrate why that idea isn't a perfect one at the very least. Who wants to play a game where people berate you from the streets because you can't get to six burning buildings at the same time?
EDIT:
If you'd like to say anything constructive about the topic I'd be happy to listen.
ArkkAngel007
Member
A lot of people are coming up with great stuff, but at the same time I feel like we're still a generation away from achieving those things properly. It's not that the concepts are hard to put in place. It's executing them that will be an issue, especially when you have to consider how taxing open worlds/sandbox games can be and increasing expectations on what they deliver visually and in diversity.
^I'm not sure what game it was, but the protecting city stuff was pretty boring in it and I know a game today isn't going to be able to offer much there.
And god forbid if Superman has to make a choice somewhere in the game that's between end of the world or localized mass destruction
GravityMan
Member
Let Rocksteady take a stab at Superman after they finish Arkham Knight. It would be a good challenge for them. Superman is an IP that needs a top-tier developer (and time, vision and a deep understanding of his universe) in order for a game starring him to be good.
voodoopanda
Member
It could be structured in a similar fashion to how his powers & abilities have increased throughout his 75 year comic book history. Start Superman off with him only able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, limited strength, etc. But as you progress through the game, you'll engage in challenges & foes throughout Superman's history, leading up to the modern day where Superman fights off against Brainiac or Darkseid as the final challenge.
BluePigGanon
Member
Because he's hard or impossible to harm (assuming you're being true to the character), then the whole game has to be based on saving people and property from threats. The simplest version would be the old arcade games Defender or Robotron with a god mode turned on.
I think modern audiences would view a 3D version of that like an excruciatingly long (i.e., game length) escort mission.
I think modern audiences would view a 3D version of that like an excruciatingly long (i.e., game length) escort mission.
yes you can. pull a crank.
supes the god gets injected with kryptonite virus. slowly getting weaker and weaker - but is all super awesome godlike in the beginning [so you can exploit the game and be superman for as long as you want until you enter the main cutscene - then you get weaker]). (bring in crackdown gameplay) he has to fight his way to get the cure. whole game open world (junkyards, sewers, robot airports, zoos, bank heists), ticking clock game. get to the source of who poisoned you. use clark to investigate (go from a to z, taking pix, interviewing, reporting the big scoops - the longer you take the weaker you get [if you have to save people, you'll lose some of that power]) while getting sicker by the minute (jumps aren't as high, strength isn't as strong). use supes to infiltrate whoever it is you think poisoned you [like in prototype]. unravel a mystery. final is supes v. lex luthor. lois gives him the cure when it's human supes v. lex. luthor and cured supes go on an all out war (destructible buildings and all that + qtes) game ends with supes losing the fight. unconscious on some rooftop. sun rises. supes gets his powah back. game ovah. to be continued.
20 hour long game. side missions. cameos. super mode at the end of the game where you're superman / ck and going around open world saving random people from randomized criminal acts and photomode so you can share pix on facebook. done in the style of the tas but modernized for the hip new kids.
problem is... superman is a hard character to do. coming up with ideas is easy. making it play good... near impossible.
I could think of a hundred games I'd want made before I'd want to push for a Superman game. That excuse just irritates the hell out of me. I see it repeated often in various ways with various mediums. And it's the last kind of crappy excuse I expect to find in a thread where I expected to read some interesting responses.
'I just can't imagine how [insert simpleton's reason here].'
It's a videogame. Just because Superman is near invincible in 'real life', it doesn't mean we can't handicap him in a game without removing the entirety of what makes his abilities interesting.
Whether that's some story related reason for having him poisoned with kryptonite so he's become vulnerable to damage to an extent, without losing the fun of his super strength, speed and flight, or whether we insert something else as a factor. Using kryptonite poison, I can imagine a game where you're mixing the main storyline with him having to deal with everyday threats as well getting his cure, and his life as Clark Kent where he's investigating stories. You could even tie the two together somewhat to give a twist on the dynamic.
If you don't want to go the open world route, and focus entirely on Superman, then have zones instead which are big enough to give you free reign over his abilities and make the game focused on the main storyline.
All Superman needs is a developer who gives enough of a shit about the character, and some executives who'd actually greenlight such a game over something else that interests them. But most superheroes not named Batman don't have this.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I can't remember when. There were good Batman games back in the SNES days.
You know, it's a good point with Darkseid there. You have a Superman that day after day saves those he can, but cant save everyone. That has to be hard for him.
And then some scenery-chewing super villain shows up to conquer/destroy/eat the world, and Superman just lights up and takes them down. And when he stands victorious, with a cocky little smile, he knows one thing: Today, he DID save everyone.
That might actually be a good way to use super villains in a hard choices style Superman game. It's like catharsis for Superman. Finally a problem that doesn't have a hard choice. Darkseid is a global threat and needs to be stopped, anything else is secondary. It has to be nice for Superman to just let loose and focus on that one big problem, just for a little while.
Baron_Calamity
Member
Laugh now but I loved Superman for the Atari 2600 when I was a kid. I also loved the Parker brothers Spider-man game for the 2600 as well. Ah but those were simpler times.
Lego Batman 2 did alright by Superman.
I don't have a good idea for a Superman game other than maybe have villains steal his powers and he has to fight them one by one to get them back. So you could have the feeling of progression and challenge. I'm not a game designer so who knows.
Lego Batman 2 did alright by Superman.
I don't have a good idea for a Superman game other than maybe have villains steal his powers and he has to fight them one by one to get them back. So you could have the feeling of progression and challenge. I'm not a game designer so who knows.
Robbing Superman of his powers defeats the point of making a Superman game. It's like saying, "Let's make a Spider-Man game, but make you earn the ability to swing on webs half way through the story." Or making a Captain America game, but taking the shield away from you until the end when you get it back from Red Skull. You can still make a functional game, but why bother using that character?
That would actually be in line with the current comics.
Start off with jeans and a T Supes who just has above average (for a superhero) strength and durability, speed, and heat vision. Eventually, you get flight and freeze breathe along with the proper suit. You start just fighting regular thugs and corrupt businessmen and eventually graduate to aliens and other such things. The city and the places you can go eventually open up as well. You start with a small segment of Metropolis, then the whole city, and by the end you get the Fortress of Solitude and a ship that lets you go into space.
That would actually be in line with the current comics.
Start off with jeans and a T Supes who just has above average (for a superhero) strength and durability, speed, and heat vision. Eventually, you get flight and freeze breathe along with the proper suit. You start just fighting regular thugs and corrupt businessmen and eventually graduate to aliens and other such things. The city and the places you can go eventually open up as well. You start with a small segment of Metropolis, then the whole city, and by the end you get the Fortress of Solitude and a ship that lets you go into space.