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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

http://io9.com/why-do-we-care-so-much-about-what-female-superheroes-we-1573674640

An article about the overt sexualization of female superheroes in comics compared to how male superheroes tend to look powerful and noble in comparison. I think it's a good read and has some amusing images to boot.

It's no secret that female characters are portrayed in a different way than their male counterparts are in comic art. But in a medium where superhero costumes are already so silly, why do we care so much about how our lady heroes dress?

Last month Janelle Asselin wrote a piece for Comic Book Resources criticizing the cover of DC's Teen Titans #1, in part focusing on the portrayal of Wonder Girl. Wonder Girl, despite being a teenaged girl, is given breast that appear to be implants, breasts that are popping out of her strapless top. What happened after Asselin posted the piece is awful, and much ink has been (rightly) devoted to it: Asselin received not just negative comments, but rape threats and other threats of violence in response to her piece.

Asselin has written about her experiences on her blog and on xoJane, and she sparked a larger discussion about how some people talk to women in the comic book industry. That's certainly a discussion that needs to be had, but so does the discussion that Asselin was originally trying to have: that there's a problem with female superheroes' outfits in mainstream comics and that it's turning a lot of folks off to those books.

Here at io9, we love a good sexy outfit. We celebrate weirdly skimpy costumes and the dated sex appeal of Star Trek duds. We appreciate a good bit of cheesecake and flirty and funny pin-up art. But seeing major superheroines running around with their breasts and buttocks hanging out? It can get exhausting after a while.

We've posted a bit about our issues with female superhero costumes, and each time, we receive comments questioning whether sexualized female costumes are really a problem. This is a response to those comments, explaining why discussing female costumes is important and why many are, in fact, problematic in the current media landscape.

The rest of the article is at the link.

Spoiler

Boobs butts boobs butts Boobs butts boobs butts Boobs butts boobs butts

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

If you're going to fight, cover up

 

[BocoDragon]

Humans are obsessed with how women dress. Left or right. Conservative or liberal. Prude or sexual liberator.... everyone has a big giant opinion.

 

[Glass Rebel]

I find superheroine costumes beyond silly but it's almost 1AM here and I just can't help but laugh at her last name.

 

[akira28]

Why do we even care what male superheroes wear?

We read comics for the aesthetic look as well as the story. Someone may say, hey we need poppin boobs and buts to remind the readers that we have hot babes in these books, and that's just someone's sales perspective, right or wrong. We do care what the heroes and villains wear because that's part of why we read. Consciously or not.

why wear a costume and not functional battle armor? These are questions we don't really (need to?) ask, because it's almost all covered by the fantasy aspect.

 

[kmax]

Because girls like to look sexy, and guys like to look, period.

It's win-win.

For practical reasons, the things they wear do suck though.

 

[Black Rambo]

Meanwhile Hulk runs around in nothing but ripped up pants. Get over it already.

 

[MisterHero]

Why can't I care about what both sides wear? Because it's true and it happens in every comic book movie thread. Quicksilver is the latest "fashion controversy".

#BringBackTheRedTrunks

 

[strafer]

Because we want tits and blood.

 

[Masquerader]

Hm. Sorry, but Harley Quinn is one of my favourite antagonists in anything ever. I couldn't care less about her outfit (Although if anyone else does, I'd hardly hold it against them). Same with Wonder Woman, really.

 

[NotMyRealName]

Adolescent male fantasies prevent me from being open about my love of the medium. Movie studios don't have any qualms about appealing to both genders, yet there is a distinct disregard for half the population when comic book studios decide they want to sell a few more issues.

 

[happypup]

From the beginning super hero comic books have been marketed towards boys (be they all grown up or still children). We will never change the fascination boys have with scantily clad ladies, and comic books are not likely to stop showing them as long as that is their largest market, but that is their largest market because that is the demographic they are targeting. The medium itself has universal appeal, I hope we get out of this cycle at some point.

 

[akira28]

For the record, I hate the new Superman look. Or is that book...do I hate the book, or the look...I can't decide.

vv: disagreeable easy answer.

 

[Wazzy]

We care because the male characters are treated with far more respect design wise than female characters. If they stopped trying to pander to horny men and the community was more inclusive of women, the community could be taken more seriously.

 

[Intheflorsh]

Amazing.

 

[akira28]

Amazing.

Without all the hair, I would let that pass.

 

[kirblar]

We care because the male characters are treated with far more respect design wise than female characters. If they stopped trying to pander to horny men and the community was more inclusive of women, the community could be taken more seriously.

Is it wrong when people appeal to gay males with scantily clad men?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

As long as catwoman zips up her catsuit all the way, I'm good

 

[LiK]

Comics were made for male teens and sexy females were made to grab their attention. While I agree that we don't need to pander all the time, we also shouldn't be down over characters that reveal skin. I mean, why bother making characters wear tight spandex anyway?

 

[Wazzy]

Is it wrong when people appeal to gay males with scantily clad men?

If objectification were as popular against men as it is for women, then sure. But as it stands, women are treated and viewed far worse in most mediums.

 

[MisterHero]

Amazing.

Comics were made for male teens and sexy females were made to grab their attention. While I agree that we don't need to pander all the time, we also shouldn't be down over characters that reveal skin. I mean, why bother making characters wear tight spandex anyway?

They fit under street clothes.

 

[muu]

We care because the male characters are treated with far more respect design wise than female characters. If they stopped trying to pander to horny men and the community was more inclusive of women, the community could be taken more seriously.

And is that going to magically have women buying comic books while retaining the male audience against other comics that decide to give their new female superhero a boob job? It'll take a great deal of effort to expand the audience of what's become a very niche market, especially given lower-priced and more easily accessible forms of entertainment. It's no different than CAVE shooters throwing in more and more moe girls into their games as some sort of weird fanservice / customer grab, getting rid of those girls isn't suddenly going to turn the next DoDonpachi into a multi-million AAA seller.

 

[Manmademan]

Without all the hair, I would let that pass.

It's nonsensical. Male heroes routinely fight crime in nothing more than G-strings and Straps, and no one really cares.

Hell, Ghost Rider even went FULL NUDE

 

[Veelk]

From the beginning super hero comic books have been marketed towards boys (be they all grown up or still children). We will never change the fascination boys have with scantily clad ladies, and comic books are not likely to stop showing them as long as that is their largest market, but that is their largest market because that is the demographic they are targeting. The medium itself has universal appeal, I hope we get out of this cycle at some point.

What amazes me about this is that people thing scantily clad women will simply cease to exist in comics.

I think I would say the most gender inclusive medium available in storytelling is books. Do you remember that point in history where, once harlequin romance novels gained a foothold, male fantasy inspired stories ceased in production? How ever since that day, there has never been an instance where a male protagonists rescues a damsel in distress?

That's about how it would affect comics. Smut would still be produced for little teenage boys. It just wouldn't be the only thing available. So all the market would do is grow larger. And honestly, even if it didn't, if I were any kind of corperate official with a concious, if my fans were the kind that would stop buying my stuff because I support a cause for equality, I wouldn't want them as fans. I never understood how people considered being a business an acceptable excuse for doing harm to society (or atleast not putting effort into bettering it)

 

[Supermanisdead]

while i think in general the oversexed outfits of superheroines is stupid, there are some cases where it can serve as a great storytelling technique. emma frost wears these outfits because she thinks it's a power thing. whether or not you agree with everything here, she does have her own viewpoint and isn't just dressed like that because its sexy for the reader.

 

[Mr-Joker]

It's nonsensical. Male heroes routinely fight crime in nothing more than G-strings and Straps, and no one really cares.

Except Women outnumbers the male counterpart and are drawn in a way to please the male readers.

 

[Manmademan]

Except Women outnumbers the male counterpart

not really, no. Even the male characters that are wearing clothes are typically wearing outfits that might as well have been sprayed on.

and are drawn in a way to please the male readers.

Are you implying that the male characters are drawn in a way to DISPLEASE readers? It's fantasy wish fulfillment either way.

 

[happypup]

What amazes me about this is that people thing scantily clad women will simply cease to exist in comics.

I think I would say the most gender inclusive medium available in storytelling is books. Do you remember that point in history where, once harlequin romance novels gained a foothold, male fantasy inspired stories ceased in production? How ever since that day, there has never been an instance where a male protagonists rescues a damsel in distress?

That's about how it would affect comics. Smut would still be produced for little teenage boys. It just wouldn't be the only thing available. So all the market would do is grow larger. And honestly, even if it didn't, if I were any kind of corperate official with a concious, if my fans were the kind that would stop buying my stuff because I support a cause for equality, I wouldn't want them as fans.

I agree. The market can only grow by targeting other demographics, and it has been, slowly, but change takes time, and growing a market is a risk, even when it seems so obvious to us. The audience must be willing to engage, and if they do not the suits lose money, if they play it safe, they won't increase their market, but they won't risk the initial investment either.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

I'm still a little sour about fan outrage changing Wonder Woman's jacket outfit back to the old style one.

 

[Wazzy]

And is that going to magically have women buying comic books while retaining the male audience against other comics that decide to give their new female superhero a boob job? It'll take a great deal of effort to expand the audience of what's become a very niche market, especially given lower-priced and more easily accessible forms of entertainment. It's no different than CAVE shooters throwing in more and more moe girls into their games as some sort of weird fanservice / customer grab, getting rid of those girls isn't suddenly going to turn the next DoDonpachi into a multi-million AAA seller.

There's plenty of women who are into comics but are unwilling to be a part of the community due to the treatment of women both in comics and outside.

No one is saying women can't be sexualized ever but that the constant use of it and mainly on women is the problem.

It's nonsensical. Male heroes routinely fight crime in nothing more than G-strings and Straps, and no one really cares.





Hell, Ghost Rider even went FULL NUDE

Two examples and suddenly that's the equivalant to the multitude of over sexualized female designs?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

while i think in general the oversexed outfits of superheroines is stupid, there are some cases where it can serve as a great storytelling technique. emma frost wears these outfits because she thinks it's a power thing. whether or not you agree with everything here, she does have her own viewpoint and isn't just dressed like that because its sexy for the reader.

Emma dresses like a stank because the writers and artists want her to dress like a stank because they like stanks

 

[Nealand Liquor]

I am not saying this to piss anyone off but I would like to know: In what situation is it appropriate for men to enjoy looking at a fantasized version of scantily clad women?

I can totally, absolutely understand a balance in all forms of media. If roles were reversed I would want to see wall to wall dick 24/7. Though that brings me back to the question of where and when is it appropriate in media?
Serious question.

 

[sqwarlock]

not really, no. Even the male characters that are wearing clothes are typically wearing outfits that might as well have been sprayed on.



Are you implying that the male characters are drawn in a way to DISPLEASE readers? It's fantasy wish fulfillment either way.

I really hate this argument. It always sounds like, "Well male characters are sexualized too, so who cares if women are as well." Now, I might be completely off on this, but it's still how I see it. Like it's trivializing the point that articles like the one in the OP are trying to bring to light.

 

[Manmademan]

Two examples and suddenly that's the equivalant to the multitude of over sexualized female designs?

Two examples off the top of my head in a matter of seconds. I could spam this page all day with men in G-strings, and as I said before even the ones wearing clothing are basically wearing skin tight outfits that reveal just as much anyway.

There is no significant difference between the hyper masculine (or hyper metrosexual) portrayal of male heroes, and the cheesecake designs of female heroes.

Want a better example? Let's look at He-Man. Three female characters anyone can actually name. Three DOZEN male heroes dressed like this:

 

[Veelk]

I am not saying this to piss anyone off but I would like to know: In what situation is it appropriate for men to enjoy looking at a fantasized version of scantily clad women?

I can totally, absolutely understand a balance in all forms of media. If roles were reversed I would want to see wall to wall dick 24/7. Though that brings me back to the question of where and when is it appropriate in media?
Serious question.

It's not really about appropriateness on an individual level. It's the fact that it's an industry wide thing. When 9.8 out of every 10 females (or males) are sexualized for the viewer, then that sends a message to girls on a societal level, like the article states. If you just like seeing sexy superheroines, you know what, more power to you. There will always be something like that for you. It just shouldn't be the default for the industry as a whole.

 

[Manmademan]

I really hate this argument. It always sounds like, "Well male characters are sexualized too, so who cares if women are as well." Now, I might be completely off on this, but it's still how I see it. Like it's trivializing the point that articles like the one in the OP are trying to bring to light.

hate it all you want, it's a valid complaint. The argument always revolves around "women are sexualized, and this is bad!"

Bring up the fact that males are sexualized, and overly exaggerated in every way possible and you get shrugs and "so what, it's a power fantasy anyway and doesn't count."

This argument ALWAYS is a one way complaint.

 

[BocoDragon]

hate it all you want, it's a valid complaint. The argument always revolves around "women are sexualized, and this is bad!"

Bring up the fact that males are sexualized, and overly exaggerated in every way possible and you get shrugs and "so what, it's a power fantasy anyway and doesn't count."

This argument ALWAYS is a one way complaint.

It's difficult too because if a male were drawn in a way to please female fancy, would it be as easy to identify as a low cut shirt and a bare midriff? The result would not set off warning bells as easily as an objectified female would in the minds of both males and females.

 

[jaxword]

I have to be upset about something every day.

 

[User 100115]

hate it all you want, it's a valid complaint. The argument always revolves around "women are sexualized, and this is bad!"

Bring up the fact that males are sexualized, and overly exaggerated in every way possible and you get shrugs and "so what, it's a power fantasy anyway and doesn't count."

This argument ALWAYS is a one way complaint.

I am really, really sorry but saying men are just as sexualized as women in comics is laughable. There is really no comparison to saying a few comic book heroes are scantily clad when nearly all of the female superheros are, and are often put in provocative, spine breaking, impossible poses in order to show off both breast and butt.

If male super heroes had cock windows and were always posed to show the bulge and the butt at the same time, you might have an argument.



Someone needs to post some Hawkeye Initiative stuff.

 

[BocoDragon]

I am really, really sorry but saying men are just as sexualized as women in comics is laughable. There is really no comparison to saying a few comic book heroes are scantily clad when nearly all of the female superheros are, and are often put in provocative, spine breaking, impossible poses in order to show off both breast and butt.

If male super heroes had cock windows and we always posted to show the bulge and the butt at the same time, you might have an argument.



Someone needs to post some Hawkeye Initiative stuff.

Do women even want cock windows and bulge, though?

I'd argue that is not the signifier of a female-pleasing male design.

 

[Dabookerman]

Because the smart thing a comic publisher would do is to try to attract a larger female audience. If a less sexualised female character puts off dudes then that's their problem.

 

[Rest]

It's only a big deal because most people don't think of the fact that the men all wear skintight outfits as well. There's no difference between the stupid stuff the women wear and the stupid stuff the men wear.

 

[User 100115]

Do women even want cock windows and bulge, though?

I'd argue that is not the signifier of a female-pleasing male design.

I was making a 'sexualized imagery' point. It's just as ridiculous. Bulge and butts are the big things I would think would be part of a 'sexualized man' costume. Cock window was highlighting how ridiculous the boob window is.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Do women even want cock windows and bulge, though?

I'd argue that is not the signifier of a female-pleasing male design.

Not all dudes want tit windows and asses in their face all the time either, though. Shit gets old, especially when you can get your hands on the real deal

 

[chaobreaker]

while i think in general the oversexed outfits of superheroines is stupid, there are some cases where it can serve as a great storytelling technique. emma frost wears these outfits because she thinks it's a power thing. whether or not you agree with everything here, she does have her own viewpoint and isn't just dressed like that because its sexy for the reader.

It's not her viewpoint, it's the viewpoint of the (most likely) male writer who wrote that issue.

You see the same handwaving for Power Girl's boob window too.

 

[psylah]

Jubilee always had the best getup.

Only comic book character I ever cared about.

 

[Wazzy]

Two examples off the top of my head in a matter of seconds. I could spam this page all day with men in G-strings, and as I said before even the ones wearing clothing are basically wearing skin tight outfits that reveal just as much anyway.

There is no significant difference between the hyper masculine (or hyper metrosexual) portrayal of male heroes, and the cheesecake designs of female heroes.

Want a better example? Let's look at He-Man. Three female characters anyone can actually name. Three DOZEN male heroes dressed like this:

hate it all you want, it's a valid complaint. The argument always revolves around "women are sexualized, and this is bad!"

Bring up the fact that males are sexualized, and overly exaggerated in every way possible and you get shrugs and "so what, it's a power fantasy anyway and doesn't count."

This argument ALWAYS is a one way complaint.

You are wrong. Men are not nearly as sexualized as women. Why do you think there's such an outrage about female designs in gaming and comics?

 

[Veelk]

Another thing is that men and women view sexuality differently.

Men for the most part focus on the physical. Men see a scantily clad women, that's pretty much all you need to get you going. The way she moves, what she is doing, etc. What the woman is thinking towards them is secondary. Women's sexuality, on the other hand, focus' more on emotions. When they fantasize, most women think of the person being in love with them. Looking good and sexy is a bonus of course, but physicality is secondary. When twihards argue about Team Edward vs Team Jacob, they admit that Jacob may have the body of a greek god while Edward looks kind of pasty, but what they really base their arguments on which relationship is more attractive to them, not relative hotness.

So, you can't really point to a few men in tight underwear and call it the same thing. Besides, straight men idolize muscles nearly as much they do fantasize about female bodies. Boys like looking at muscled men and it has nothing to do with sexuality on their part.

 

[akira28]

I am really, really sorry but saying men are just as sexualized as women in comics is laughable. There is really no comparison to saying a few comic book heroes are scantily clad when nearly all of the female superheros are, and are often put in provocative, spine breaking, impossible poses in order to show off both breast and butt.

If male super heroes had cock windows and we always posted to show the bulge and the butt at the same time, you might have an argument.



Someone needs to post some Hawkeye Initiative stuff.

keep in mind that we are talking sales images, not product content. essentially adverts, cover pages. Comics are victim to the overarching issue of our society using sex to sell everything. Inside the books themselves, the sexualization isn't as overt, and it all comes down to fantasy aesthetics. Glamorwear.

 

[Nealand Liquor]

It's not really about appropriateness on an individual level. It's the fact that it's an industry wide thing. When 9.8 out of every 10 females (or males) are sexualized for the viewer, then that sends a message to girls on a societal level, like the article states. If you just like seeing sexy superheroines, you know what, more power to you. There will always be something like that for you. It just shouldn't be the default for the industry as a whole.

So lets say the comic industry was half Wonder Woman and half Archie or something, would this argument still exist?

I am only asking because I am curious what people suggest as a real and tangible solution.