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[simpatico]

For console games it should be a condition of considering a game "finished" and ready for release.

 

[HazukiSensei]

The 60fps game. Virtua Fighter 2 on Saturn looks better than whatever Uncharted at 30fps.


All the best modern games I have played are 60fps. And at least 1080p. Anything below means that you get an upscale on a 1080p TV, which leads to more blur.

So thats your stance. Uncharted 3 at 4k 60 fps looks better than uncharted 4 as it was for release.

You are arguing in bad faith. You and I both know that isnt true but you're willing to say anything in order to not concede my point.

 

[HazukiSensei]

A matter of perspective. I view it the completely other way around.

Its not an advancement because any generation is capable of it, so by definition...it isnt an advancement. You chip things away to make it happen.

 

[Kiya's Guard]

Why do you care about 60 indeed. You should be caring about 90-120

 

[HazukiSensei]

You'd think a forum full of hardcore, intelligent gamers would be able to grasp this simple concept. But its like rocket science to some. Shocking.

1. Its alot of young gamers who were born after 2000 and were really young during previous generations, thus dont know any better.

There was a kid on here who actually used screenshots of a mickey mouse gake from the 90's and a remake that was done a decade later and thought the primary difference between the two was 4k....

2. Gaming forums are no longer for the hardcore

3. People have generally low creative IQ's. But when something hits a benchmark like 4k 60 its a *number* so its easier for peoples brains to quanitfy that it reaches a certain graphical benchmark. Kinda sad because its the only way they cab convince themselves that there is a leap in tech lol becaise this gen they can barely tell visually.

 

[HazukiSensei]

It isn't the hardcore gamers on this forum the reason why we stopped caring about 60 FPS. It is the casual gamers that are the problem. The casual gamers which makes up the majority of console players care more about visuals than FPS.

Most casual gamers don't even know what an FPS is.

Theres casual, then theres gamers that think they are hardcore but are kinda casual (i.e. the many gamers here who only own consoles but no PC) . Those gamers over inflate the value of 4K 60. Because they actually arent deep in the hobby enough to understand how difficult that is to run, and how much that limits graphics and tech.

They also play games on normal, and think FROM games have the best combat.

They also dont understand that certain games 60 fps is good and necessary, fighters, online shooters, for example.

But then theres benchmark games that try to push the limits.

Also the hypocrisy is insanez they say they dont cate about graphics yet want the highest resolution possible lol which ine is it?

 

[bluecowboys]

Theres casual, then theres gamers that think they are hardcore but are kinda casual (i.e. the many gamers here who only own consoles but no PC) . Those gamers over inflate the value of 4K 60. Because they actually arent deep in the hobby enough to understand how difficult that is to run, and how much that limits graphics and tech.

They also play games on normal, and think FROM games have the best combat.

They also dont understand that certain games 60 fps is good and necessary, fighters, online shooters, for example.

But then theres benchmark games that try to push the limits.

Also the hypocrisy is insanez they say they dont cate about graphics yet want the highest resolution possible lol which ine is it?

Graphics and don't let people here tell you otherwise. There is data that these developers have that tells them that console gamers prefer visuals over performance. Sorry, but this is the way it has always been. That is the reason why people obsess over 4k TVs but don't give a shit about refresh rate or even know what it means.


Previous generations already showed everyone that console gamers would play games at 30 fps. Hell, Legend of Zelda and Star field is going to run at 30 fps and people are already calling it GOTY.

 

[rofif]

they will come around eventually

problem is current 30 fps only games do not justify the cost of sacrificing 30 fps, yet

they just use 30 fps as to escape optimization passes. a plague tale rueqiem. visually similar to tlou. it also runs at 30 35 fps cpu bound without rats while doing nothing special... its not exactly newgen graphics. devs just pushed 30 40 fps to escape 60 fps optimization passes. same for gknights

but games eventually that justify the 30 fps cost will be come down, then the discussion will end once again

redfall only targets 30 fps rn to escape cpu bound optimizations.

Another thing is that 30 fps demons souls got 75ms more input lag than bloodborne. Something wrong with some 30 fps modes this gen.
And with oled, you need great motion blur quality to do 30fps. Like uncharted 4 for example or bloodborne again. But people disable it in an instant because pc gamers do that and then complain 30 fps is unplayable.

 

[cireza]

You are arguing in bad faith.

This is what I say to everyone that disagrees with me.

A game with less polygons or less effects WILL look better to me if it is 60fps while the other is 30fps. This is not bad faith, this is my opinion. Just like your wall of texts are nothing more than a personal opinion.

Sonic Unleashed on Series looks 10 times better than the original on 360 because you can actually see clearly what is happening. Same for Lightning Returns, 60fps is a huge improvement. Any game with fast movement or a free camera benefits tremendously from 60fps.

For some people, more polygons/effects/whatever make a game prettier. For others, it is having the best video signal, native resolution and the highest framerate. The cleanest, smoothest picture. No blur, not a ton of shitty effects polluting the screen etc...

 

[krumble]

Wow this is an elitist western world viewpoint isn't it?
Why 60fps? 60fps without slowdown or dropped frames has been the dream going back to the days on the snes at least.
I doubt very much that the majority of this forum have a vrr display also, because most people replace their tv when the existing one breaks or move house etc.
And does vrr really fix this issue?
Isn't the issue either the developers don't spend enough time optimising a game to get to 60fps, don't target it at all or yet again we are at a point where the hardware just can't do 60fps with the fidelity people want now.. there hasn't been a generation yet where 60fps is a standard, it seems to be a pipe dream until tech like dlss 3 and the graphics architecture to cost ratio improves that an equivalent to the 4000 series is in the console boxes

 

[PharaoTutAnchAmun]

60fps is an ideal frame rate.
But if a game is in 30fps, it's not a dealbreaker.

So you are oke with 30 fps in Redfall?

 

[elbourreau]

My game runs at 2 fps, but it is fine, I have VRR.

There was a time when developers were competent and games were locked at 60fps all the time. People forgot that such a thing existed though.

Can you be more specific, please?

 

[TLZ]

 

[cireza]

Can you be more specific, please?

Already answered, read the thread.

 

[elbourreau]

Already answered, read the thread.

"8/16 bits consoles, arcade games."

So this is your geniune answer... Ok.

PS : no need to answer. Thanks for your time.

 

[brian0057]

So you are oke with 30 fps in Redfall?

I don't care.
I'm not playing it anyway because it looks like shit. And it's not because of the frame rate.

 

[Moochi]

I have old man eye strain. 120 fps or I'd rather just play cards.

 

[Inanilmaz]

As long the game has not gun and cars, i dont care about 60+fps. So 40fps vrr would be nice.

 

[HazukiSensei]

This is what I say to everyone that disagrees with me.

A game with less polygons or less effects WILL look better to me if it is 60fps while the other is 30fps. This is not bad faith, this is my opinion. Just like your wall of texts are nothing more than a personal opinion.

Sonic Unleashed on Series looks 10 times better than the original on 360 because you can actually see clearly what is happening. Same for Lightning Returns, 60fps is a huge improvement. Any game with fast movement or a free camera benefits tremendously from 60fps.

For some people, more polygons/effects/whatever make a game prettier. For others, it is having the best video signal, native resolution and the highest framerate. The cleanest, smoothest picture. No blur, not a ton of shitty effects polluting the screen etc...

How about this, we have a sample pool of 8000 people. You ask them what looks better. God of war 2 at 4k 60. And god of war 3 at 1080p 30 fps.

Which do you bet your bank account people will know looks like a leap? I say bad faith because you know what the answer is, and try to act like this unrealistic niche opinion is what most people see. Its just mental gymnastics avoiding the obvious.

 

[nikos]

Stopped caring about 60fps when I got a 144hz monitor eight years ago.

 

[MasterCornholio]

 

[cireza]

How about this, we have a sample pool of 8000 people. You ask them what looks better. God of war 2 at 4k 60. And god of war 3 at 1080p 30 fps.

Which do you bet your bank account people will know looks like a leap? I say bad faith because you know what the answer is, and try to act like this unrealistic niche opinion is what most people see. Its just mental gymnastics avoiding the obvious.

The bolded part is utter bullshit. I never said it would be the majority. Writing "to me" and "my opinion" fifteen times probably wasn't enough.

And by the way, are you implying that we should not respect what a possible minority thinks ? Because this is exactly how your posts reads. You have been trying to enforce your opinion (and it is nothing else than a subjective opinion) as an absolute truth with walls of text. How about stopping the ridiculous behavior and accept that others prefer something different than you ?

 

[JeloSWE]

How about this, we have a sample pool of 8000 people. You ask them what looks better. God of war 2 at 4k 60. And god of war 3 at 1080p 30 fps.

Which do you bet your bank account people will know looks like a leap? I say bad faith because you know what the answer is, and try to act like this unrealistic niche opinion is what most people see. Its just mental gymnastics avoiding the obvious.

But you play games. You don't just look at them. 30fps with maxed out visuals look indeed very good in pictures and in YT videos. But actually playing and interacting with a game, 60fps feels so much better.

I will go even further and say that 120fps + BFI is the minimum gold standard I hope we one day will all reach. It both feels amazing to control and you have a crystal clear image when you pan the camera or backgrounds scroll in platformers. Yes 30fps is playable but it's laggy and it's soooo blurry in motion due to sample and hold of modern TV's, using BFI at 30hz would make any one get a headache even 60hz is too low.

I bet most people haven't had the chance to try a setup that can do stable 120fps + BFI with max visual settings on a top end TV + PC because it's currently very expensive, but once you've tried it, you really start to miss it when a game only offers 30fps. Personally, I've tried fidelity mode in most games I own but I can't take it, not only does everything feel heavy and sluggish but most importantly, where are all those extra pixels and details when the game is in motion, it's just a blurry mess whenever the camera moves around. I will always chose 60fps at a minimum, whatever the sacrifices needed to be made.