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Why do you dislike Hilary Clinton?

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A

AngmarsKing701

Member
Inuhanyou said:
I don't like these kinds of threads. Your basically trying to shame people for not liking your favored politician personally. I don't care about Hillary Clinton as a person. I do care about what she stands for politically and what she represents in terms of our country, which is bigger than her.

Those who lie about their own government records, who lie about their ties to powerful interests that influence their campaigns and their public views, be they financial or political, who lie about their own intent for the country in the smarmiest of manners...these things are not only what the Clinton's have represented for a long time,its also the corrupt way of doing business that is par the course in Washington today in both parties that needs to change.

Its not even like the OP is parsing the difference, asking why people would not vote for her, which would be a far more reasonable viewpoint to have, because people can obviously not like her politics or dislike her as a Presidential candidate yet at the least support her run for the Presidency over Donald Trump, easily.

Some democratic party loyalists just can't comprehend that Hillary Clinton has a lot of political flaws indicative of not just her, but the party she leads as well, and can't stand that some people don't like that or support that.

And so they put their hands in their ears whenever these things are brought up because, hey, i don't have to listen to a thing you say because your obviously a sexist or some other name that allows me to disengage from debating with your core point.

Does Hillary Clinton have a cozy relationship with Wall Street and get most of her donations from them? Yes.

Does she have a cozy relationship with all the dirty fuel companies who have a vested interest in their own destruction of the planet? Yes.

Does she care only about Israel and openly mock or ignore any other side of the middle eastern conflict outside of attacking both the Syrian goverment and rebels at the same time and inflaming tensions with Russia? Yes.

Is her political view too far to the right on many issues to the point where most of these powerful influencers are backing her? Yes.

Is the fact that the only decent plans we've heard out of her so far(like her new college tuition plan which thankfully now isn't just giving more private grants to have people fall into more debt?) built on deals she's made with more progressive politicans to garner their support? Yes.

Are all of these issues indicative of washington in general, and the mess that needs to be cleaned up in order for anything of actual note to be accomplished? Yes.

I really wish that we can all come to understand these basic points before we have arguments about whether or not its wrong to like or dislike a person we don't know.
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Excellent post.

I'm voting for her because the status quo, as fucked up as it is, is preferable to annihilation.
 
D

darkace

Banned
Hey policy positions are too far left. She also has an irritating tendency to ignore problems in the off-chance they go away only to watch them continue to blow up.
 
C

cryptosporidium

Member
darkace said:
Hey policy positions are too far left. She also has an irritating tendency to ignore problems in the off-chance they go away only to watch them continue to blow up.
Click to expand...

What? Clinton is center right across the board I find.

the political spectrum the way I see it useful only for describing the degree to which the state owns the means of production because so many people are unfamiliar and confused with it as it is now
 
T

TTG

Member
Simple, she's a fraud. Clinton is emblematic of much of what is wrong with politicians today, she's entirely a facade built to win elections. I'm not in the political coverage milieu, but it doesn't take long to observe that much, after all, it's the only side she's got.

Other more educated posters have gone into the ways she's being duplicitous so I won't bother, but if you asked me, I wouldn't define either of the candidates as altruistic, not in the least. Obviously she's the preferred choice, but I'm not about to embrace her.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Fairly opposed to her foreign policy on moral, economic, and practical long term results in world relations and safety. Quite a bit of differences in fiscal policy. Think she's too far right on social issues - drug laws, slow to support marriage equality, etc. Don't really agree much on surveillance.

I'm not voting for her. With that said, I'm glad I can and not worry about me impacting the national election because Trump is simply not qualified or rational. I'm in Texas so yeah.
 
J

JJDubz

Member
She rambles a bit too much.
Really dislike the ignorance of technology, though that is true of almost every politician.
Other than that she has everything that will make a great president.
 
TheContact

TheContact

Member
I don't like either candidate. I liked Sanders. But Hillary is the lesser of 2 evils, as I see it. So I'm voting for her, only because it's a whole that DT has gotten this far.
 
D

dramatis

Member
TTG said:
Simple, she's a fraud. Clinton is emblematic of much of what is wrong with politicians today, she's entirely a facade built to win elections. I'm not in the political coverage milieu, but it doesn't take long to observe that much, after all, it's the only side she's got.
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lol You're like that anti-vaxxer lady who decided not to vaccinate her kids based on research she looked up to confirm her bias, and then her whole family came down with rotovirus.

It's remarkably sad the number of posters calling her a robot, a facade, a fake, all of the above, to deny her even basic humanity in their imagination of the 'construct' they think is Hillary Clinton.

It is the comfort of looking up the negatives and seeing only negatives rather than to do the 'observation' of both good and bad, since then you would have to acknowledge her positives rather than to simply pretend positives do not exist. Because if you don't look at the good things that Hillary Clinton has done, you never have to acknowledge her as a human being, as an accomplished woman, and you never have ever consider that maybe you could possibly like her or admire her or respect her.

I suggest you might need some more 'observation' before you can assess a 68 year old woman with a long, storied, fraught, and extraordinary life as a shallow facade.
 
andythinkpad

andythinkpad

Member
Morrigan Stark said:
People criticizing her for staying with Bill genuinely piss me off.

First, you don't actually know that she stayed with him for career reasons or not, and there's no way you can possibly know that, so fuck right off. Second, even if it's true, so what? It doesn't inherently make her a bad person. If both partners are OK with how their relationship evolve, that's their business, and it's none of yours. Third, I wonder how many "pro family values" folks criticize her for... actually sticking with her marriage.

And lastly, it's really quite astonishing* that she gets more shit for having been cheated on, than Bill does for being the cheater.

* Not really all that astonishing I know. Ugh
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OK I will take this one. First of all if you consider yourself a liberal, you shouldn't place moral judgement on people who cheat. People who cheat in and out of marriage really don't hurt anybody except the promises they made to their domestic partners. Unless you are a religious person, I don't see why you should care that Bill cheated.

Now why didn't Bill leave Hillary? We don't know, but probably because Bill cared about his own legacy in a country founded by puritans. Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
 
C

Chococat

Member
Honest question. Those who are against Hillary cause she is part of a political dynasty, are you all going to hold Michelle Obama to that same standard? Michelle is now forbidden for ever to stay out of political cause her husband already went down that path.

Do you hold contempt for Beau Biden for serving into politics? Should have he been bared cause of his dad?
 
P

platakul

Banned
Chococat said:
Honest question. Those who are against Hillary cause she is part of a political dynasty, are you all going to hold Michelle Obama to that same standard? Michelle is now forbidden for ever to stay out of political cause her husband already went down that path.

Do you hold contempt for Beau Biden for serving into politics? Should have he been bared cause of his dad?
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Michelle has no interest in politics. Beau wasnt on any kind of trajectory for President nor was his dad ever President. The presidency should not look like the list of AFC Superbowl QBs from the last 12 years. This limits growth in the kind of candidate that can run, and keeps the party stuck in the unappealing center.
 
D

darkace

Banned
cryptosporidium said:
What? Clinton is center right across the board I find.
Click to expand...

No, she isn't. She's solidly left.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Far too much tax and spend and regulation loving for my liking, although I do respect her policy wonkishness and that her spending proposals and regulation are much better and backed by much more empirical evidence than the norm.

And she doesn't reject free trade or globalisation, which is great.
 
U

UnemployedVillain

Member
andythinkpad said:
OK I will take this one. First of all if you consider yourself a liberal, you shouldn't place moral judgement on people who cheat. People who cheat in and out of marriage really don't hurt anybody except the promises they made to their domestic partners. Unless you are a religious person, I don't see why you should care that Bill cheated.

Now why didn't Bill leave Hillary? We don't know, but probably because Bill cared about his own legacy in a country founded by puritans. Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
Click to expand...

What the fuck is this shit? This is why this thread was probably make, because talking about her brings out crazy nonsense like this

fart town usa said:
She's a total neo-liberal. Neo-liberalism is basically privatizing aspects of public services. Bill brought it to the mainstream on the Left. It is what it is. Totally necessary at the time because liberalism was so unpopular but many of the policies have hindered the nation in the long run.

People will ask for receipts. Research it yourself. This is popular opinion in political theory and papers are plentiful and not difficult to find.
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AKA, you're just making shit up and can't even do the slightly job of backing it up. Gotcha
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Her pledge to continue providing unconditional support to Israel and that every effort to counter that must be eliminated really soured my opinion towards her.
 
U

USC-fan

Banned
like or not. She all we got. i really have never met a person in real life that likes her but know a bunch that are voting for her.

This election should be a landslide. Its funny how much south park has nailed it.
 
S

Surfinn

Member
andythinkpad said:
OK I will take this one. First of all if you consider yourself a liberal, you shouldn't place moral judgement on people who cheat. People who cheat in and out of marriage really don't hurt anybody except the promises they made to their domestic partners. Unless you are a religious person, I don't see why you should care that Bill cheated.

Now why didn't Bill leave Hillary? We don't know, but probably because Bill cared about his own legacy in a country founded by puritans. Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
Click to expand...
The assumption is strong with this one. Maybe we should hold off on the personal life stuff when we have no idea what happened.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
gutter_trash said:
so you hate all Presidents since Harry Truman then
Click to expand...

I don't "hate" them, and she is a much better option than Trump, I just find that that level of blind support is very disagreeable and continue to foster the widespread perception that if Israel told the US to lick its arse and eat its poop, the US will happily oblige and will ask for its piss as well for additional sauce.
 
J

JackDT

Member
Often brought up as a point of weakness, I think Clinton's flip flopped position on the TPP is actually just right and it mirrors my own opinion.

I'm in favor of global free trade. I think the overall impact is positive for everyone involved in the long run. I think this is one of the less controversial economic ideas and most supported by evidence. Not *the* most but it's a lot better supported than many things in economics. So I support the concept of the TPP. But when you dig into the details of the actual text as finalized there's a lot of weird crap in there that sound potentially problematic and has only a passing connection to free trade. So I wouldn't support it at this moment. As I understand Clinton this is pretty much her stance. Sounds good in theory, has some problem in practice -- let's make a better version.

But something like the TPP should be passed. Unlike Trump, I don't oppose it because I think we all lose out if we allow global free trade.
 
O

Orbis Tabula

Member
andythinkpad said:
OK I will take this one. First of all if you consider yourself a liberal, you shouldn't place moral judgement on people who cheat. People who cheat in and out of marriage really don't hurt anybody except the promises they made to their domestic partners. Unless you are a religious person, I don't see why you should care that Bill cheated.

Now why didn't Bill leave Hillary? We don't know, but probably because Bill cared about his own legacy in a country founded by puritans. Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
Click to expand...

Either that or she loves him. I dunno. Hard to call!
 
M

Melkezadek

Member
Laughing Banana said:
I don't "hate" them, and she is a much better option than Trump, I just find that that level of blind support is very disagreeable and continue to foster the widespread perception that if Israel told the US to lick its arse and eat its poop, the US will happily oblige and will ask for its piss as well for additional sauce.
Click to expand...

If you don't "hate" them, why do the presidents since Harry Truman not get the same scorn? Why is this point made unique to her?

And people frame her support on Israel as some comically evil unthinking servant. We're allies. Despite the obvious discussion we need to be having about Palestinian/Israeli relations, we're have to support our allies. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Obama HAS to ride and die with The Turkish President, but he KNOWS he ain't shit.

It's no different than with her. I'm confident she'll have the same style of dealing with Israel (which honestly isn't good enough).
 
M

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
andythinkpad said:
Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
Click to expand...
Or she still loved him despite his cheating, and was happier with his company than without.
Or she stayed with him for the sake for their daughter.

The point is a) you can't possibly know any of that, and b) it's none of your fucking business.
 
C

Chococat

Member
platakul said:
Michelle has no interest in politics. Beau wasnt on any kind of trajectory for President nor was his dad ever President. The presidency should not look like the list of AFC Superbowl QBs from the last 12 years. This limits growth in the kind of candidate that can run, and keeps the party stuck in the unappealing center.
Click to expand...

I asking the hypothetical about Michelle. And her life an career are not over yet. She could change her mind. Should she stay out because her husband already did it?

And in the case of Beau, his stint in politics is akin to the Kennedy and the Bushs. Not everyone amid or made it to the President Yet the families clearly are dynasties. Any step in politics can get you to the top. Like Obama. Dude step over year of conventional political positions and landed the Presidency.

EDIT: Personally, I am wary of multiple generations of the same family holding political power- like the Bushs and Kennedys. Hillary and Bill are one generation form two different blood line. I see nothing wrong with spouse having similar career paths.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
Melkezadek said:
If you don't "hate" them, why do the presidents since Harry Truman not get the same scorn? Why is this point made unique to her?

And people frame her support on Israel as some comically evil unthinking servant. We're allies. Despite the obvious discussion we need to be having about Palestinian/Israeli relations, we're have to support our allies. It's ridiculous to think otherwise. Obama HAS to ride and die with The Turkish President, but he KNOWS he ain't shit.

It's no different than with her. I'm confident she'll have the same style of dealing with Israel (which honestly isn't good enough).
Click to expand...

What makes you think I was happy with Truman, Obama, etc etc, in terms of how they dealt with Israel?

I really dislike how the US treats its relationship with Israel and just disappointed that it appears like she's just going to continue the trend.

I got nothing to hate towards her in a personal capacity, I just dislike this one particular policy of her, that's all.
 
D

Dai101

Banned
Laughing Banana said:
What makes you think I was happy with Truman, Obama, etc etc, in terms of how they dealt with Israel?

I really dislike how the US treats its relationship with Israel and just disappointed that it appears like she's just going to continue the trend.

I got nothing to hate towards her in a personal capacity, I just dislike this one particular policy of her, that's all.
Click to expand...


That's a policy every US president has to comply, or they can forget even to try to run.

Yes, even the beloved millenial dream, Sanders.
 
Da-Kid

Da-Kid

Member
So far Hilary has been a pathological liar who had proven she'll say or do anything to get what she wants with no genuine intentions for those things. I wouldn't be surprised her true motives and being will be revealed if she's elected president.

This whole presidential election is like choosing acid Vs. napalm. Do I want to be killed and incinerated, or alive but mutilated and horribly scared?
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
I don't dislike her.

I just find her hard to trust... which isn't the same as being untrustworthy.

But she's a compromise and I'll take it.
 
K

Kin5290

Member
Da-Kid said:
So far Hilary has been a pathological liar who had proven she'll say or do anything to get what she wants with no genuine intentions for those things. I wouldn't be surprised her true motives and being will be revealed if she's elected president.

This whole presidential election is like choosing acid Vs. napalm. Do I want to be killed and incinerated, or alive but mutilated and horribly scared?
Click to expand...
Politifact actually tagged her as the most honest Presidential candidate this election season, and her opponent Trump lies as easily as breathing. But sure, she's the one who is a "pathological liar".
 
F

Fat4all

Banned
my mom changed her mind on gay marriage a couple years ago

what a vile flip-flopper who will say anything for her own advancement
 
D

Dai101

Banned
Da-Kid said:
So far Hilary has been a pathological liar who had proven she'll say or do anything to get what she wants with no genuine intentions for those things. I wouldn't be surprised her true motives and being will be revealed if she's elected president.

This whole presidential election is like choosing acid Vs. napalm. Do I want to be killed and incinerated, or alive but mutilated and horribly scared?
Click to expand...

I'm gonna need to see some receipts.
 
K

Krejlooc

Banned
andythinkpad said:
Why didn't Hillary leave Bill? Well the only explanation was she cared about political advancement more than her own happiness.
Click to expand...

Or maybe, she still loved him, and they managed to work through a major issue. Or maybe, she stuck with him for her daughter? Or maybe any other number of reasons beyond sticking with Bill Clinton specifically so she could later run the country?
 
B

BoosterDuck

Banned
Da-Kid said:
So far Hilary has been a pathological liar who had proven she'll say or do anything to get what she wants with no genuine intentions for those things. I wouldn't be surprised her true motives and being will be revealed if she's elected president.

This whole presidential election is like choosing acid Vs. napalm. Do I want to be killed and incinerated, or alive but mutilated and horribly scared?
Click to expand...

What's wrong with lying? Trump does it, Obama does it, Sanders does it why can't she lie?

hell I'm lying right now, Taylor Swift is a bad artist

See that lie? That's a damn good lie
 
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