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[pixlexic]

Xbone was their attempt to leverage the 'goodwill' generated by the 360. It failed miserably.

Xbone started as their attempt to do what they created it fir in the first place and take over the living room. That failed and now they have to build it back up. But they also brought up the ms brand awareness with the xbox when it was really falling 10 years ago. Right now they are more concerned with Google and apple than anyone.

Sony wants to do the same with the Playstation brand but that turned into just keeping the company afloat with it instead. It's the only thing they have going for them right now.

which is what makes this so funny. Neither company is in a good position. They both are struggling with something.sony seems to be more drastic for the short term but ms's is no less drastic in the long term.

 

[Amentallica]

The gap is what, 1 million units or something? Honestly it's not that big of a gap. We're not talking Dreamcast levels of failure with Xbox One. It's second place. It's not the most spectacular place to be but it isn't the bottom of the barrel either.

That's one continent.

 

[THEF3AR]

I honestly don't see how they can turn this thing around without a complete revamp of the hardware.

You know, the PS4 isn't a very powerful piece of hardware. It's okay, but GAF makes it out to be the strongest piece of technology money can buy. The PS4 and Xbox One aren't even that far apart.

 

[Ol No Bones]

Xbone started as their attempt to do what they created it fir in the first place and take over the living room. That failed and now they have to build it back up. But they also brought up the ms brand awareness with the xbox when it was really falling 10 years ago. Right now they are more concerned with Google and apple than anyone.

Sony wants to do the same with the Playstation brand but that turned into just keeping the company afloat with it instead. It's the only thing they have going for them right now.

which is what makes this so funny. Neither company is in a good position. They both are struggling with something.sony seems to be more drastic for the short term but ms's is no less drastic in the long term.

MS is doing fine with their cloud enterprise and things like office 365. They have a new leader with a solid vision. I think MS is gonna continue to be relevant.

 

[Neuromancer]

The Xbox One has been a little slow out of the gate, sure, but I think we all remember the fable about the tortoise and the hare. Slow and steady wins the race was the moral of that tale and will be the moral of this one I'm sure. Also the team at Xbox is a bunch of cool dudes led by the coolest dude of them all, Phil Spencer. I bet they have a few tricks up their sleeve in the coming months to smooth out the sales gap and mount a comeback. People say never count out Nintendo, but what they really should be saying is never count out Microsoft. They're scrappy.

 

[quesalupa]

Would Sony be where they are at now if they ended the PS3 early?

 

[twobear]

You really think hardware sales is the big profit generating business?

It would be much more interesting to see how much $$$ per user they are making.
A 15 year old kid without a credit card who buys 3 used games at GS a year really does not matter to the bottom line.
A 30 year old guy who spends 100$ per month in your store on shit (+ sub fee) on the other hand will make you huge profits.
Throwing in a DL code and a 2nd gamepad does not cost that much if you can win over that guy.

Yes, I would guess that most of the money is to be made on subscriptions, online games, etc.

However, the far smaller user base than they planned isn't going to help there either.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

The gap is what, 1 million units or something? Honestly it's not that big of a gap. We're not talking Dreamcast levels of failure with Xbox One. It's second place. It's not the most spectacular place to be but it isn't the bottom of the barrel either.

Last time worldwide numbers were brought up there was 10 million PS4s sold through to consumers and 5 million Xbox Ones shipped. That leaves at least a 5 million sales gap that we know of worldwide.

 

[regenhuber88]

The Xbox One is a fine console. I'm not sure why people seem to want it to fail. They have some damn good games coming, the best OS and the best online infrastructure.

Yeah. Let's see how PSN will hold up.
1080p at 60fps don't mean much if you can't start the game because PSN is down and can't validate your license.
I think PS4 will stay the #1 this gen, but PSN related scandals could really make it close than anybody imagines now.

 

[Con_Smith]

Fuck ups aside Microsoft is selling pretty Ok.just because they aren't in "first" place doesn't mean they need to abandon a system barely a year into its first year. Give them time to either improve more than their user interface and build a base rather than having them say fuck it and screw over their current install.

 

[eot]

Was mostly referring to people who keep saying that "The PS3 pulled it back, Xbox can too!", because it's a giant fallacy since the PS3 was never in a losing position. It repeatedly outsold the 360 on a global basis (it had to sell more than the 360 year on year or would have never made up for the year headstart).

If you aren't one of those people that's fine, but you were saying the things that a lot of people are clinging to as a lifeline.

Look, the only point I'm trying to make is that unexpected things happen and they can happen in anyone's favour. Plenty of unexpected things have happened just since last year's E3. So whether or not, when all is said and done, the XBO will have turned out to be a giant failure or something that did alright, I think that will have been decided by decisions made (by both companies) in the years to come.

 

[Woo-Fu]

While winning is nice, it isn't the goal. Profitability is the goal.

Which will reach profitability first, the console that they've already released and that is doing reasonably well considering the state of the market, or a new one they haven't even done all the R&D on yet?

If you're going to pull the plug you pull it on the division, not just the product.

 

[Ad0l]

XBONE is not WiiU. Microsoft will get money from all the new third party games and XBLGold subscriptions for years.

 

[Manmademan]

The gap is what, 1 million units or something? Honestly it's not that big of a gap. We're not talking Dreamcast levels of failure with Xbox One. It's second place. It's not the most spectacular place to be but it isn't the bottom of the barrel either.

It's a million behind in the US. last gen MS needed to double Sony's domestic sales to hit a tie WW with the ps3.

It's not a failure, but without a HUGE US lead Microsoft can't come anywhere close to 80 or 90 million consoles, or staying competitive with the ps4.

 

[jroc74]

As many have stated...its too early.

As many have stated, Sony stuck it out with the PS3 and it survived. And I dont think the financial loss is as great for the XBO as it was for the PS3. I believe less exotic hardware = less selling at a loss.

This isnt Wii U level yet. And it wont be. Sad to say but I also believe the Xbox brand is stronger than Nintendo's... Sad depending on who you talk to.

Relevancy and all that jazz.

 

[tfur]

Mobile first, cloud first. Set you Xbox expectations with that in mind for the future.

I expect Nadella to clean house in the near future. There is a cloud of unannounced layoffs still looming, if he is expected to meet that crazy number of layoffs mentioned earlier this year.

They need to get rid of the disaster, buy ea, make a reasonable service model, and go 3rd party across mobile and console.

It's their only chance. They lost mobile, they lost tablets, they are going to loose console next. On top of this the desktop space is being displaced by mobile, where the Microsoft OS is dead.

 

[timlot]

Its doing better than xb360 in the same time period. As far as financials go Microsoft as a company is very rescourceful. They just spent $2.5 billion on Minecraft. Minecraft people. Meanwhile Sony excpets a $2.1 billion loss in the coming fiscal year. Xb1 will be fine folks.

 

[Neuromancer]

They could call it the Xbox Too and copy everything Sony did right.

 

[twobear]

Yeah. Let's see how PSN will hold up.
1080p at 60fps don't mean much if you can't start the game because PSN is down and can't validate your license.
I think PS4 will stay the #1 this gen, but PSN related scandals could really make it close than anybody imagines now.

PSN was hit with one of the biggest scandals to ever grace an online network last gen and PS3 still outsold the 360 by the end of the generation.

They could call it the Xbox Too and copy everything Sony did right.

Does it still count as copying if Sony got their playbook from MS in the first place?

 

[Ol No Bones]

Mobile first, cloud first. Set you Xbox expectations with that in mind for the future.

I expect Nadella to clean house in the near future. There is a cloud of unannounced layoffs still looming, if he is expected to meet that crazy number of layoffs mentioned earlier this year.

They need to get rid of the disaster, buy ea, make a reasonable service model, and go 3rd party across mobile and console.

It's their only chance. They lost mobile, they lost tablets, they are going to loose console next. On top of this the desktop space is being displaced by mobile, where the Microsoft OS is dead.

Microsoft is the new Nintendo it seems lol.

 

[Ol No Bones]

PSN was hit with one of the biggest scandals to every grace an online network last gen and PS3 still outsold the 360 by the end of the generation.

It was a free service. This time not so much.

 

[Neuromancer]

Does it still count as copying if Sony got their playbook from MS in the first place?

Haha

 

[twobear]

Haha

I don't know whether you're laughing because of the implication or because you think my claim was funny?

Because a lot of what Sony did this generation is what MS did last generation, and bits of it arguably since the Xbox.

 

[travisbickle]

That would definitely damage the brand. MS need to do a "it's not as bad as you thought" tour for the XB1. Don't literally call it that but they need to have people trying it, possibly celebrity endorsements try to change public perception.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

PSN was hit with one of the biggest scandals to every grace an online network last gen and PS3 still outsold the 360 by the end of the generation.

And they were arrogant as fuck, making one PR mess after another. And they launched 200 dollars higher than the competition. The PS sold despite all of this in no small part on the strength of the Playstation brand that they built up by dominating the two previous generations.

Actually I think it's ludicrous how much bs Sony got away with last gen, but there you have it.

 

[twobear]

That would definitely damage the brand. MS need to do a "it's not as bad as you thought" tour for the XB1. Don't literally call it that but they need to have people trying it, possibly celebrity endorsements try to change public perception.

An 'it's not as bad as you thought' tour isn't the same as an 'it's as good as the competition' tour, which is their chief problem right now.

 

[Lemondish]

Yeah. Let's see how PSN will hold up.
1080p at 60fps don't mean much if you can't start the game because PSN is down and can't validate your license.
I think PS4 will stay the #1 this gen, but PSN related scandals could really make it close than anybody imagines now.

There's no DRM on anything I've ever played on the PS4. Hell, I jumped into since NHL, DC, and infamous while the servers were down. No impact to my gaming.

 

[ShemhazaiX]

Look, the only point I'm trying to make is that unexpected things happen and they can happen in anyone's favour. Plenty of unexpected things have happened just since last year's E3. So whether or not, when all is said and done, the XBO will have turned out to be a giant failure or something that did alright, I think that will have been decided by decisions made (by both companies) in the years to come.

My point is that your example is flawed because PS3 "Pulling it back" was never unexpected, on account of it never being in a position where it wasn't selling more than the Xbox.

Unfortunately there aren't many examples in the console industry where a console starts selling less than competitors then manages to pull ahead. I can't think of any generation it's happened off of the top of my head. Usually when one console gets a lead it keeps a lead, mostly due to people buying whatever their friends have. An effect that is only going to be stronger thanks to the introduction on online multiplayer last generation.

But I'm not saying the Xbox is a failure, just that it's unprecedented that it'll be able to change its position in the market this generation.

 

[Two Words]

The gap is what, 1 million units or something? Honestly it's not that big of a gap. We're not talking Dreamcast levels of failure with Xbox One. It's second place. It's not the most spectacular place to be but it isn't the bottom of the barrel either.

WW? Nooooooo.

 

[Josh7289]

I could very much see them making a cross-gen-compatible next-gen console around 2017 or something.

 

[Anion]

Mobile first, cloud first. Set you Xbox expectations with that in mind for the future.

I expect Nadella to clean house in the near future. There is a cloud of unannounced layoffs still looming, if he is expected to meet that crazy number of layoffs mentioned earlier this year.

They need to get rid of the disaster, buy ea, make a reasonable service model, and go 3rd party across mobile and console.

It's their only chance. They lost mobile, they lost tablets, they are going to loose console next. On top of this the desktop space is being displaced by mobile, where the Microsoft OS is dead.

Amazing. Is this movie called the Xppocalypse?

 

[travisbickle]

An 'it's not as bad as you thought' tour isn't the same as an 'it's as good as the competition' tour, which is their chief problem right now.

baby steps. Considering they outsold the PS3 by 15 million last gen there should be a few potential buyers who are put off by the negative perception, take them first.

 

[Jack cw]

You know, the PS4 isn't a very powerful piece of hardware. It's okay, but GAF makes it out to be the strongest piece of technology money can buy. The PS4 and Xbox One aren't even that far apart.

Pls. There is no way we’re giving up a 30 percent advantage to Sony. PS3 and 360 were not that far apart. This time we talk about a performance and power difference of roughly 30 to 40% which is dramatic actually. And a console is a closed system and for 399$ you get a pretty decent and capable machine, nothing wrong with that.

The gap is what, 1 million units or something? Honestly it's not that big of a gap. We're not talking Dreamcast levels of failure with Xbox One. It's second place. It's not the most spectacular place to be but it isn't the bottom of the barrel either.

You know, the situation is like this: 10 million PS4 sold to costumers and around 5 million xbones sold through. The gap gets wider every day. Xbone is basically dead in mainland EU, parts of Asia and Japan. UK and US is were it's kept alive but it says a lot when the systems LTD after 9 months is less than what WiiU sold globally :/

 

[DarthWalden]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

 

[krypt0nian]

Yeah. Let's see how PSN will hold up.
1080p at 60fps don't mean much if you can't start the game because PSN is down and can't validate your license.
I think PS4 will stay the #1 this gen, but PSN related scandals could really make it close than anybody imagines now.

We've hit the wishful thinking phase.

Guys. It was just another NPD month where the PS4 handily outsold the xbox. We cannot spaz out everytime this happens or it will be so regular we could set our watches by it. Hell, worldwide sales ratios should be making people insane in that case.

Calm down.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Even if they are a distant second this gen they will likely be more profitable than they were last gen with the 360. People forget the RROD cost them $3 billion. So it would be incredibly foolish to take whatever goodwill they have earned back, which they are still attempting to do mind you, and throw it out the window with a truncated lifespan. Not only would it betray their install base, it also just doesn't make financial sense.

 

[regenhuber88]

PSN was hit with one of the biggest scandals to ever grace an online network last gen and PS3 still outsold the 360 by the end of the generation.

True.
But I think the times have changed. PSN was free and gaming was all pretty disc based back then.
More people are going all digital this gen, are paying 5$ pM, the outcry will be so much bigger.

 

[Anion]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

Ironically it was the Japanese...
Lol

 

[Lynn616]

New Xbox Christmas 2018. I hope it still has TV integration.

 

[Xando]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

Not sure if joke or american.

 

[Bl@de]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

wot? or should I say: Was zum lieben Herrgott nochmal?

 

[thelastcrusader]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

I remember that movie! Wait...no...

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

True.
But I think the times have changed. PSN was free and gaming was all pretty disc based back then.
More people are going all digital this gen, are paying 5$ pM, the outcry will be so much bigger.

PSN issues this gen are woefully exaggerated. Not much can be done about DDOS attacks, and maintenance and issues will happen. The network for the most part is up and running with no problems. Also Plus gets you a lot of additional things beyond online play. So a spattering of service offline is not going to affect the PS4 much.

 

[Lo-Volt]

I think Microsoft would like the chance to earn some money out of software, and maybe by cutting costs on the hardware it's having manufactured, and leaving the market too early prevents them from doing that. I personally don't think the Xbox One is performing so well that Redmond wants to stay in this market after this cycle is over (not faltering in America but definitely falling behind, and absolutely landing on its face in much of the world), and I also wonder if others in the company and investors are really interested in this when there are so many other markets Microsoft is fighting in.

But I also feel like the leadership wants to see how this plays out before either committing to another generation, leaving the market or doing something else altogether to cater to the people who are buying these boxes.

 

[junglist]

Why can't they just make 1 badass console and depending on which brand you like (MS, SONY, NINTENDO) you can add their expansion hardware for another $99. System could sell for $600 with the possibilities of expanding it further... like a PC but a console... lol

 

[gigantor21]

What? No, absolutely not. They've worked mightily to restore the brand after getting embarassed after the reveal and E3; they'll never catch up to the PS4, but they still have a chance to do decently at least. Even announcing a new console before 2017 would be dicey.

 

[Dyno]

The 360 was going strong for the first few years. In the last few years the console was collecting dust between the spaces of Halo and Gears of War releases.

It really depends on how long the One is going to be supported. My guess is it's going to be dropped early if they're going to make another console. History will repeat itself in this case.

 

[Jack cw]

True.
But I think the times have changed. PSN was free and gaming was all pretty disc based back then.
More people are going all digital this gen, are paying 5$ pM, the outcry will be so much bigger.

Did something like this happened ever again? I think they learned their lesson and Microsoft isn't immune to this either. The outcry is already there with the Driveclub situation, but in the end you get a lot of free games (that are not 4 years old) to play for the 5 bucks.

 

[LlamaJohnson]

Die Americans quit when the Germans bombed Pearl harbour?

"Germans?"
"Forget it, he's rolling."

On a serious note.... This thread is great. It's nothing but (mostly) level headed, "let's settle down guys" conversation. NPD thread? Graphics comparison thread? The sky is falling! I love GAF.

Anyway I'll say what the majority of you are already saying. The Xbone is fine. Yes, it's second place and will remain second place in The Great Console War. Will Microsoft make money in the end? Yes. Is that a success? Yes. I'm curious to see what will happen next for Sony. Yes, the PS4 is a huge success, but where will Sony be in 5 or 6 years? This has me worried for the PS5 and beyond.

 

[regenhuber88]

PSN issues this gen are woefully exaggerated. Not much can be done about DDOS attacks, and maintenance and issues will happen. The network for the most part is up and running with no problems. Also Plus gets you a lot of additional things beyond online play. So a spattering of service offline is not going to affect the PS4 much.

Oh yeah, the stuff that happened already wasn't too big a deal. But you never know what will or can happen in the future.
PSN is still the achilles heel of PlayStation to me.