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[Tempesta di Fuoco]

Does anyone know the story behind why they've completely ignored it? It's easily the best Pilotwings game (and the only one, in my opinion, that feels like a full game and not just a tech demo), but they've ignored the shit out of it. No references in other games, no Virtual Console release, no nothing.

Hell, the only thing I've seen as a reference is in Pilotwings Resort when they play part of the hanggliding music from 64. There's not even a hint of it even as a trophy in Smash Bros. It's like they're purposely trying to avoid it in 64.

I want to think it has to do with some legal issues over it with the developer of it, but considering they have been closed for over 10 years, I would think those legal issues would be long gone by now. Or maybe there's a tech issue, which explains not getting it up on VC, but that doesn't really explain the lack of references/etc. overall in other Nintendo games.

Does anyone know why exactly this amazing game has been ignored by Nintendo for almost 20 years? Legal issues, tech issues, what?

 

[Kai Dracon]

I'm wondering if this is a Starfox 1 issue, where part of the technology involved has rights problems. Didn't Pilotwings 64 use software technology from a 3rd party that Nintendo didn't own?

 

[Phediuk]

Pilotwings 64 was done in collaboration with an American dev and Silicon Graphics, iirc. Might be rights issues. Or, as with the Metroid Prime series, they often ignore it because it wasn't made in Japan.

 

[sörine]

Pilotwings 64 is notoriously hard to emulate accurately, which is why I assume it never came to Wii VC. Most N64 games we did get on VC run on the same engines (EAD's M64 engine, EAD's racing engine) or are easier to emulate releases (Bomberman Hero, Paper Mario, S&P, Ogre Battle 64, etc)

We also never got RSP microcode titles like Excitebike 64 or Donkey Kong 64 despite both franchises being fairly active on Wii. Not to mention all the notable 3rd party stuff we never saw (Goemon, Mischief Makers, Star Wars, Turok, Tetris, etc).

 

[Camjo-Z]

Hell, the only thing I've seen as a reference is in Pilotwings Resort when they play part of the hanggliding music from 64.

The main theme also takes some clear inspiration from 64's Rocketbelt music.

 

[OmegaFax]

Mecha Hawk is also in Pilotwings Resort. There's even a direct shout out reference in one of his information snippets when you fly near him.

 

[JohnTinker]

I loved this game so much. It gave you so much freedom to roam around. I'll never forget the first time I successfully navigated through the Crescent Island caves.

Wish that Factor 5's Pilotwings eventually would've come to fruition.

 

[Grizzo]

I tried so hard liking this game but I just can't bring myself to do so. It feels really slow and I'm bad at it. I always make my character crash or something. Maybe I just don't have enough patience in me or something. I like the 3DS one better.

That being said, I'm glad this franchise exists. But if you're waiting for Pilotwings 64 to be re-released on the Wii U, then make yourself comfortable because it's not coming out until forever.

 

[Hades Hotgun]

The 3DS game was such a let down in comparison to Pilot Wings 64. I would pay good money for a Wii U entry that took inspiration from the 64 title. Hell, they could probably just include all the maps and modes from that game in a new one to make up for the lackof VC presence. A game like that really doesn't scream high budget, so I think you could have a decent ROI with a well managed project.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Pilotwings 64 was done in collaboration with an American dev and Silicon Graphics, iirc. Might be rights issues. Or, as with the Metroid Prime series, they often ignore it because it wasn't made in Japan.

More likely, PW64 didn't sell well in Japan whatsoever. The N64 was Nintendo's greatest console flop domestically, and I can't imagine sales of a game that's ignored now, even in N64 threads on GAF, would have been satisfactory back in 1996. So Nintendo sees the series as low-priority; the stars aligned for Resort in that Nintendo wanted to reuse content (Wuhu Island) and give Monster Games a new project ideal for them, albeit with some design assistance from corporate.

Paradigm mostly transplanted mission designs and controls from Wada and Miyamoto into their engine and island assets, and Dan Hess did the audio/music too. I think SG was involved in some other part of the Dream Team? Not sure if they contributed much of anything to PW64 that would lead to rights difficulties/royalties.

Wish that Factor 5's Pilotwings eventually would've come to fruition.

Looking at the Unseen64 entry, it seems like F5 was trying to make an original IP based off of their experience with flying in other games, like Rogue Squadron and what soon became Lair. Wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo was thinking of making this an honorary Pilotwings title, since the later artwork shows a move towards a brighter art-style.

Everyone should give PW64 a shot. It's up there with Blast Corps. and Wave Race 64 as one of the best N64 arcade-like games, and it looks great for a launch title taking a different approach from SM64's sparely-textured environments. Excellent free flight mode, great variety of things to check out and do in maps, and very fun missions to complete in the main game. Resort's more refined control-wise, and I'd be disappointed if future Pilotwings games lack 3D, but PW64 remains the fan favorite within reason.

 

[CentroXer]

Or, as with the Metroid Prime series, they often ignore it because it wasn't made in Japan.

This is pretty ignorant. Since when is Metroid Prime ignored?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

One of the best parts of this game is flying and landing inside aircraft hangars and on top of boats. I just wish there were plenty more easter eggs and interactions to promote exploration.

 

[Naar]

playing the demo in smash wii u made me buy the snes version on virtual console

so many good times playing it on my snes back in the day. Was my first snes game with Mario World, F zero, and i think actraiser

and yea the 64 version was awesome! Too bad nothing came after it :/ The 3ds version didnt feel like pilotwings for me

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Pilotwings Resort really hurts from using Wuhu because people can't help but associate it with Wii Sports Resort instead. And it's annoying how both the SNES Mode 7 maps and Wuhu share the Pilotwings stage in the new Smash...where's Holiday Island, or Little States?

 

[evilromero]

It's one of my favorite games on the N64, possibly one of my favorites ever. I would love to see it come back in 1080p on the VC. But I'm fairly certain it's one of those titles we'll never see again like Stunt Race FX and Uniracers.

 

[entremet]

Great game. Sad it never got a VC release.

Apparently I think it has to do with the multiple studios involved if I remember.

edit:

Pilotwings 64 was co-developed by the Texas-based graphics company Paradigm Simulation and Nintendo's Entertainment Analysis and Development (EAD) and Integrated Research and Development (IRD) divisions. Due to Paradigm's experience with Silicon Graphics workstations, Nintendo contacted the American company in 1994 concerning it becoming one of the Nintendo 64's "Dream Team" of first developers.[6][7][8] Paradigm worked directly with a team at Silicon Graphics and spent nine months developing a technology base for Pilotwings 64 and Paradigm's other Nintendo 64 releases. Development on Pilotwings 64 began in earnest during June 1995, with Nintendo working on the game design and Paradigm working on the technical production.[7][9] Nintendo's Genyo Takeda and Makoto Wada acted as Paradigm's primary technical and design contacts individually.[7] Wada, the game's director, was also involved in design aspects such as modeling and animation.[10] Shigeru Miyamoto, the producer of Pilotwings for the SNES, reprised his role for Pilotwings 64 and oversaw the project from Japan. Miyamoto's involvement was more removed than with the SNES game due to his simultaneous work on the platformer Super Mario 64.[6][11]

From wiki.

I'm guessing figuring out the licensing for a rerelease would be difficult.

 

[Zeyphersan]

I really want to give it a shot, but I'm waiting for the VC release

You know, in a decade

 

[sörine]

Licensing wouldn't be an issue, Nintendo owns eveything outright. Paradigm was contracted but they wouldn't own anything.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I played the Shit out of this game back in 1996. This game and Mario 64 both gave such a good sense of 3d space and movement and exploration.

 

[A Black Falcon]

There are a lot of N64 games we can say this for, of course. For instance, why has Nintendo never bothered to emulate N64 contorller paks, as far as I know? WHy have they basically decided to not bother pushing for any third-party N64 Virtual Console releases ever? Even if Acclaim's rights are questionable, it'd be great to have the Turok games up there, and Capcom, Konami/Hudson, Midway (WB Games surely owns that library), etc... but no, there's nothing. Nothing but a few third-party titles originally published by Nintendo itself, such as Bomberman Hero and Cruis'n USA. And the Wii U has seen absolutely no change here. It's quite unfortunate, there's no good excuse for this...

The N64 was Nintendo's greatest console flop domestically

Even if we ignore the Virtual Boy, this isn't exactly true; while it is true that the N64 probably is the system Nintendo was most disappointed by in Japan versus their initial expectations, it wasn't their worst-selling system there -- the Gamecube sold worse than the N64 did in Japan. 5.5 million in Japan for the N64, 4.04 million for the Gamecube.

Great game. Sad it never got a VC release.

Apparently I think it has to do with the multiple studios involved if I remember.

edit:



From wiki.

I'm guessing figuring out the licensing for a rerelease would be difficult.

That would depend on the contract and who owns the rights. I'd kind of guess that Nintendo likely owns most or all of them, they seem to often have done that and it was a Nintendo IP after all. If Nintendo has rights to re-release some Rare games, for example, why not other games made by second or third parties? I can't imagine Paradigm getting a better contract with Nintendo than Rare got...

 

[Amir0x]

I don't know why Pilotwings is always one of their franchises I never liked. I always try so hard each iteration and just go "nah, not for me".

It seems like a game I should like with all the high score goals, but I just...

 

[120v]

I think a better question would be why Pilotwings was a franchise has been largely ignored

anyway Pilotwings 64 never clicked with me. It's been a long time but i remember aimlessly traipsing about mini-US ... sorely lacked the focus of the original game. could be nostalgia but I remember having a lot more fun with the first game. and i loved how it turned the game on its head with a military mission at the end

 

[nicoga3000]

What makes N64 so hard to emulate? Or better question, why are some games really hard and others not such a big deal?

 

[Alaskanbullworm]

I always really like this game. Really sucks how there's no Smash Bros stuff from this game

 

[Eusis]

Pilotwings 64 is notoriously hard to emulate accurately, which is why I assume it never came to Wii VC. Most N64 games we did get on VC run on the same engines (EAD's M64 engine, EAD's racing engine) or are easier to emulate releases (Bomberman Hero, Paper Mario, S&P, Ogre Battle 64, etc)

We also never got RSP microcode titles like Excitebike 64 or Donkey Kong 64 despite both franchises being fairly active on Wii. Not to mention all the notable 3rd party stuff we never saw (Goemon, Mischief Makers, Star Wars, Turok, Tetris, etc).

Wonder if that's also why we haven't see it on the Wii U yet? I figure the Sega platforms and especially TG16 are due to issues involving Sega and Konami being up for getting them up again, but N64 is odd in that it's been completely absent AND is Nintendo's. Possibly they were OK with a "good enough" solution on Wii since it wasn't like they could do something more universal, but with the Wii U's power they want something more universal this time and to get a wider N64 library up this time.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Damn, the Gamecube sold worse than the N64...trying hard not to blame this as the reason we've gotten a new Pilotwings but nothing for Wave Race or F-Zero this gen.

PW64's got more than enough focus vs. SNES if you play it the same way SNES guides you along; being able to go back and re-do missions for perfect grades isn't unnecessary. I think Nintendo should quit assuming Pilotwings games can only work as tech demos or minor projects used as filler during launch season. Most anyone can get into flying these vehicles or at least enjoying themselves with photos in free-flight mode(s).

 

[jamesinclair]

I wouldn't be surprised if being able to shoot missiles at the world trade center was a virtual console concern.

 

[karobit]

More likely, PW64 didn't sell well in Japan whatsoever.

This was back in 2010 but when you walk into Super Potato in Akihabara there are two stacks of in-box 80-yen N64 games. One is Ogre Battle 64 and the other is Pilotwings 64.

Heck yes I bought it for 80 yen.

 

[SCReuter]

I wouldn't be surprised if being able to shoot missiles at the world trade center was a virtual console concern.

I think it's likely Nintendo's main issue with the game.

 

[clem84]

Pilotwings 64 is notoriously hard to emulate accurately, which is why I assume it never came to Wii VC. Most N64 games we did get on VC run on the same engines (EAD's M64 engine, EAD's racing engine) or are easier to emulate releases (Bomberman Hero, Paper Mario, S&P, Ogre Battle 64, etc)

We also never got RSP microcode titles like Excitebike 64 or Donkey Kong 64 despite both franchises being fairly active on Wii. Not to mention all the notable 3rd party stuff we never saw (Goemon, Mischief Makers, Star Wars, Turok, Tetris, etc).

DK64 might have to do with the game being Rare developed.

 

[MAtgS]

DK64 might have to do with the game being Rare developed.

& having Jetpac, a now MS owned IP, in it.

 

[Tempesta di Fuoco]

I think it's likely Nintendo's main issue with the game.

Yeah, I never thought of that. Then I found this image:

So yeeaaaah, I can see why Nintendo might be a little iffy about rereleasing this, hahaha.

 

[SCReuter]

Yeah, I never thought of that. Then I found this image:

So yeeaaaah, I can see why Nintendo might be a little iffy about rereleasing this, hahaha.

And it's not just the World Trade Center. Players can target various other U.S. buildings and landmarks in Pilotwings 64, including the Pentagon, White House, Golden Gate Bridge, and Seattle Space Needle.

I don't expect to ever see a direct re-release of the game.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Depends on how new players would perceive the unexpected ability to shoot ineffectual missiles at indestructible landmarks. They also don't have to showcase this feature on the VC page; hopefully people can understand this game was released five years before 9/11. PW64 is cartoony, but it doesn't parody or make fun of the United States...at least not like this (can't forget Goose!).

 

[Garraboa]

If it's about the WTC and other landmarks, they could probably edit them out of the VC re-release. Unlike Sony, Nintendo doesn't have any problems editing games so they can get greenlit for a VC release (like Wave Race 64, partially localizing Sin & Punishment or Super Mario RPG in EU)

 

[Lionel Richie]

Or, as with the Metroid Prime series, they often ignore it because it wasn't made in Japan.

 

[Alfredo]

I freakin' loved Pilotwings 64. Just ignoring the mission objective and flying around and exploring Little States... That was so much fun.

When GTA III came out, I longed for a new Pilotwings that would let you fly through a city as detailed as Liberty City. Now could you imagine a modern Pilotwings in a city like Los Santos?! (Obviously, a Pilotwings wouldn't have the budget of a GTA, but it's fun to imagine.)

Pilotwings Resort was okay. I mean, I enjoy Wuhu island, but I really want a new, full-fledged console Pilotwings game...

 

[Sectorseven]

Seems like any of the Pilotwings features could be implemented into GTA V as DLC.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Seems like any of the Pilotwings features could be implemented into GTA V as DLC.

Might as well code a Pilotwings fangame with imported assets/music if we're going to consider unofficial games/hacks.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I mean, he's not wrong. Metroid Prime didn't have a huge cultural impact in Japan. This has sort of always been a trend with American-made Nintendo games. They're not popular in Japan and Japan does not embrace them.

So they are sidelined. I've heard it discussed many times that the Japanese perspective of Nintendo has a different zeitgeist than the rest of the world. There's a sort of nationalistic pride in it. They're JAPANESE characters, not just Nintendo characters. When Diddy Kong got into Brawl the Japanese response was regularly "but he's not Japanese!" Which gave way to international discussion about how Super Smash Bros, in Japan, is/was viewed as a celebration of Japanese creation. This was somewhat supported by a Sakurai quote where he explained needing to take American audiences into account "now" that Smash Bros wasn't just popular in Japan when, obviously, it has always been a huge success and cultural icon in America too.

I guess this is still pretty anecdotal. I'm mobile so I can't throw some links in here. And while the Japanese bias Nintendo may or may not have is probably often overstated, it does usually feel like Japanese developers respect each other's work more than the output or handling of Americans.

Edit: I don’t know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I’m an expert).