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[Aaron-Lagann]

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I don't like Marvel or DC comics, so I haven't actually read a ton of them and my image of this issue is largely based on hearsay and TV/movies. Having this periphery knowledge of these characters and story lines, I always question why the heroes don't just take care of the villains once and for all. I understand the need to continue the story from the writing perspective and I understand the whole "not wanting to become a killer" thing, but it seems like they're letting way more people die by not just killing these villains.

Let's take Batman, the answer I've repeatedly been given as to why he doesn't kill is because he doesn't want anyone to go through the feeling of loneliness that he did when his parents died. Sure, that makes sense, but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

Like I said, I understand why it happens from the view of having to continue writing a story, but I have never been able to understand why more people don't take issue with it. Why is it not a major sticking point for people? Do they do a better job of explaining everything in the actual comics? Do they not actually kill many people? What? Why don't they just have super power people be the jailers?

So, why don't you, the comic book fan, take issue with the constant lack of business being taken care of?

Also, obviously I'm not talking about characters like Punisher or Foolkiller.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

Because killing people does jack shit in a world where death sticks for a year (real time) at the most

 

[BattleMonkey]

Because they don't want the villains to die, they love the villains.

It would be fine if the comic books had stories that ended. But comic books are franchises that will never end, so they need to keep the villains alive as well.

 

[karasu]

Because killing people does jack shit in a world where death sticks for a year (real time) at the most

killing criminals does jack shit in any world.

 

[Sinatar]

Well you can always read the Punisher, his villains don't have much of a lifespan, and when they eat it, it's usually pretty rough.

 

[BattleMonkey]

killing criminals does jack shit in any world.

Kinda pointless to compare when real world, criminals tend to stay locked up, unlike comics where the criminals get out of jail each week.

 

[alfredofroylan]

Why bother, people died all the time in comic books and then return to life in some bizarre way.

 

[voodoopanda]

I remember in like the 80s/early 90s it being a thing where Marvel heroes like Wolverine would have no problem killing dudes left and right but DC ones generally didn't and that was a point of difference between the two. I don't remember how true that was or if it was just something people said.

Superman not killing people makes a lot of sense to me, considering who he is and his powerlevel. Him keeping that in check seems like a thing he would do, fits his character and kinda makes Superman Superman. With Batman, it seems like it makes him almost as crazy as his villains, just from a different side. That ideas been kinda explored in comics like The Killing Joke. Whereas Joker is crazy for his complete disregard for killing people for no reason at all, Batman is a lil crazy for his absolute refusal to kill anyone, including the Joker.

 

[karasu]

I think people look at this from too slanted of an angle. I mean, in the real world you wouldn't expect the arresting officer to kill the killers,stop him from breaking out of prison, personally handle his rehabilitation, etc etc. How reasonable is it to blame "Batman"? For all intents and purposes, he's just the arresting officer.

Is it old action movies that have lead people to believe the good guy is supposed to solve all problems by killing the bad guy? It's absurd.

Kinda pointless to compare when real world, criminals tend to stay locked up, unlike comics where the criminals get out of jail each week.

It's not pointless at all. If real world criminals were simply killed for being guilty, it wouldn't really solve anything. Same thing in the books. If Batman kills the Joker, there's just going to be some other maniacal ass doing maniacal shit.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Why bother, people died all the time in comic books and the return to life in some bizarre way.

That's part of what I'm asking, why don't people take issue with the writing when death ultimately means nothing?

 

[Meccanical]

The real answer is status quo must be maintained, any other explanation is bullshit.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Let's take Batman, the answer I've repeatedly been given as to why he doesn't kill is because he doesn't want anyone to go through the feeling of loneliness that he did when his parents died. Sure, that makes sense, but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

I think Batman: Mask of the Phantasm answers this nicely. It's not about not wanting someone to feel loneliness, it's about crossing the line between protecting others and becoming a murderer. If Batman would kill anyone, even if it was the Joker, he would become a criminal himself.

 

[MHWilliams]

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I don't like Marvel or DC comics, so I haven't actually read a ton of them and my image of this issue is largely based on hearsay and TV/movies. Having this periphery knowledge of these characters and story lines, I always question why the heroes don't just take care of the villains once and for all. I understand the need to continue the story from the writing perspective and I understand the whole "not wanting to become a killer" thing, but it seems like they're letting way more people die by not just killing these villains.

Let's take Batman, the answer I've repeatedly been given as to why he doesn't kill is because he doesn't want anyone to go through the feeling of loneliness that he did when his parents died. Sure, that makes sense, but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

Like I said, I understand why it happens from the view of having to continue writing a story, but I have never been able to understand why more people don't take issue with it. Why is it not a major sticking point for people? Do they do a better job of explaining everything in the actual comics? Do they not actually kill many people? What? Why don't they just have super power people be the jailers?

So, why don't you, the comic book fan, take issue with the constant lack of business being taken care of?

Also, obviously I'm not talking about characters like Punisher or Foolkiller.

Your avatar is from One Piece, a series where most of the Straw Hat crew's villains have stayed alive. Caesar alone should be dead, dead, dead.

The most pat answer is the value of a good villain cannot be denied.

Most heroes have story reasons for no killing their villains. For those that don't, you'll find their villain tend to either return to life, or you'll get new villains that are kind of the same thing.

 

[kazebyaka]

If the villain is interesting enough, i'd like to see him again.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Kinda pointless to compare when real world, criminals tend to stay locked up, unlike comics where the criminals get out of jail each week.

Yeah, but in comics the gates of Arkham will often times hold villains longer than the gates of Hell.

The need to do stories about the rulers of Hell or death in each universe (Necron, Mephisto, etc.) just letting villains go when they die because its a better long term investment on their part. They came close with Blackest Night, but this would shut down the "Why doesn't Batman kill" arguiement for a while.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Well you can always read the Punisher, his villains don't have much of a lifespan, and when they eat it, it's usually pretty rough.

One of the best moments in Punisher MAX.

 

[Parallax]

there's only a handful of characters in comics that we know wont stay dead forever, and for those characters theres usually some sort of story that implies that things are going on. for other characters, it's a crap shoot. they could come back, they may not. it could be a short distance, or near a decade before some characters return. there is no "come back in a year" policy for most characters

marvel had an interesting way to show how and why dome characters come back from the dead.

 

[The Adder]

The fact that they bother to step in and do what the justice system can't in stopping these people from committing crimes and capturing them is already going above and beyond the call of duty as citizens. It is not their responsibility to kill these people and if they don't want to have a taking a person's life on their conscience then no one has the right to demand it of them.

If the world would be better off with these villains dead then the justice system should put them to death. If they fail to do so it isn't the hero's fault.

 

[entremet]

Is Phoenix still dead?

 

[BattleMonkey]

It's not pointless at all. If real world criminals were simply killed for being guilty, it wouldn't really solve anything. Same thing in the books. If Batman kills the Joker, there's just going to be some other maniacal ass doing maniacal shit.

It's not about having to kill the villains, it's how useless imprisonment is in comic books, that makes people say why don't the heroes kill. But of course in franchise comics, death is also useless.

 

[Seanspeed]

I don't think people who read comic books are looking for realism in the first place.

 

[besada]

I don't support the death penalty, especially when dispensed by a single, unauthorized executioner who wears a cape and pajamas.

 

[Of All Trades]

Marvel kills tons of villains... who tend to come back to life. Fury straight up executes people.

Batman is a terrible example because DC does a poor job with the shared universe prison concept. Marvel seems to do a bit better with things like The Raft and other SHIELD facilities.

 

[The Cowboy]

I want more story arcs on Thomas Wayne's Batman, that dude just didn't give a dam what he did to the villains.

Watching the flashpoint paradox made me want so much more of him, in saying that with him you'd run out of villains pretty fast as they'd all be dead.

 

[MichaelFassbender]

I thought The Boys dealt very nicely with this issue, and made it a bit upfront.

 

[BreakyBoy]

The fact that they bother to step in and do what the justice system can't in stopping these people from committing crimes and capturing them is already going above and beyond the call of duty as citizens. It is not their responsibility to kill these people and if they don't want to have a taking a person's life on their conscience then no one has the right to demand it of them.

If the world would be better off with these villains dead then the justice system should put them to death. If they fail to do so it isn't the hero's fault.

Ding ding. For vigilante heroes like Batman, they are often merely tolerated by the law. Crossing the line into judge, jury & executioner usually gets them hunted by the law. A well-known, popular example is the ending to The Dark Knight movie.

The real question is how is it that Gotham never instituted a death penalty for guys like the Joker.

The answer to that one is because the writer(s) know the value of a good villain.

 

[Carcetti]

People like those villains as recurring characters for one.

Also, killing heroes have been explored a lot. The Ellis-era Authority are basically Justice League who just decide that they'll do things the practical way and kill their villains as fast as possible. While it's all presented in 'cool' widescreen movie style, between the lines they're actually just very violent dictators who can kill thousands of people without batting an eye. Too bad Millar took all the subtlety out of it.

 

[Htown]

Superheroes usually consider themselves as supplementary to law enforcement. They do what they can to stop the bad guys from killing people, then turn them over to the police or the government.

 

[BreakyBoy]

Also, killing heroes have been explored a lot.

This is also true. For more popular examples see the Punisher and Judge Dredd.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

So wait, do the characters acknowledge how pointless killing them is?

Also, in reference to One Piece, I do take issue with how much damage people take without dying (Usopp getting every bone in his body broken) but that's more of an issue with anime overall. I don't mind the villains not dying as much, though, since when Luffy beats them, they tend to stay beat and don't continue killing tons of innocents. With a couple exceptions.

 

[Abounder]

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I don't like Marvel or DC comics, so I haven't actually read a ton of them and my image of this issue is largely based on hearsay and TV/movies.........

....but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

...Why is it not a major sticking point for people? Do they do a better job of explaining everything in the actual comics? Do they not actually kill many people? What? Why don't they just have super power people be the jailers?

So, why don't you, the comic book fan, take issue with the constant lack of business being taken care of?

Also, obviously I'm not talking about characters like Punisher or Foolkiller.

ARROW, season 1 anyway

I believe Batman did kill the Joker in the Burton movies but it has been a while. Batman at least killed plenty of unnamed henchmen.

Also even if Batman did shoot first and worked officially as a super cop he'd still be screwed because the city of Gotham is corruption incarnate. Every level is infested with goons to the point where Bruce Wayne's money and fame amounts to a drop in the bucket

But at the end of the day comics carry the tradition of the Sunday Funnies/Saturday Morning Cartoon and the readers want to be entertained by old friends and foes. Graphic novels are the ones that feel more like miniseries or films

 

[Duane Cunningham]

Also, killing is against the law pretty much anywhere there IS a such thing as law. So, that'd make the superhero a criminal as well, or at least a defendant in a criminal court. And killing is typically considered pretty universally immoral by almost all societies. Even when it's considered justified and/or necessary such as in the case of war or self defense, it's generally seen as a very tragic last result pretty much everywhere except the most lawless of places, like Florida.

 

[The Cowboy]

I believe Batman did kill the Joker in the Burton movies but it has been a while. Batman at least killed plenty of unnamed henchmen.

I like the fact in Batman Returns he strapped a bomb to a henchmen's chest (I mean god DAM!), I wouldn't want to meet Burtons Batman - you just never know what he would do to you..

 

[Apoc29]

I think the better question is why don't they improve security for villains who keep escaping from jail?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Is Phoenix still dead?

Came back and killed Xavier.

 

[zoukka]

Because they are highly unrealistic comics to begin with.

 

[Boogiepop]

Weirdly enough, I was actually reading the first volume of the Injustice comic adaptation last night, which dealt with that. Surprisingly solid read considering what it is.

Anyway, I'd say the better question is why doesn't Bruce Wayne dump more cash/resources into improving Arkham security. Or just dump Joker in the Phantom Zone or whatever.

 

[Grym]

it works just like in real life. If you kill the villians (or terrorists), they become a martyr and their numbers grow

 

[Bauhaus]

I'm not going to beat around the bush, I don't like Marvel or DC comics, so I haven't actually read a ton of them and my image of this issue is largely based on hearsay and TV/movies. Having this periphery knowledge of these characters and story lines, I always question why the heroes don't just take care of the villains once and for all. I understand the need to continue the story from the writing perspective and I understand the whole "not wanting to become a killer" thing, but it seems like they're letting way more people die by not just killing these villains.

Let's take Batman, the answer I've repeatedly been given as to why he doesn't kill is because he doesn't want anyone to go through the feeling of loneliness that he did when his parents died. Sure, that makes sense, but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

Like I said, I understand why it happens from the view of having to continue writing a story, but I have never been able to understand why more people don't take issue with it. Why is it not a major sticking point for people? Do they do a better job of explaining everything in the actual comics? Do they not actually kill many people? What? Why don't they just have super power people be the jailers?

So, why don't you, the comic book fan, take issue with the constant lack of business being taken care of?

Also, obviously I'm not talking about characters like Punisher or Foolkiller.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

I think the better question is why don't they improve security for villains who keep escaping from jail?

If they do that, they'll just keep writing in ways that other villains help break the imprisoned ones out.

The flaws of being in a traditional comic book world.

 

[Wiktor]

Never understood it. It's completely idiotic and it's just one of those dumb nonsensical conventions one has to get over with if he wants to enjoy superhero stories.

Of course, not every character needs to be Punisher, but there are situations where even a truly heroic character should kill, because he has no other choice. Those should come rarely, but they should come from time to time. Otherwise it's just terribly contrived.

I like how Arrow tv show handles it. It started with protagonist being a pure vigilante, killing everyone who opposes him. Later on he decided to become a hero and not be a killer. But when forced to choose between the life of his friend and a villain he still killed the villain because that was no choice at all.

 

[Messypandas]

You won't kill me out of some, misplaced sense of self righteousness. And I won't kill you... because you're just too much fun.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

because "good guys don't kill people"... and ultimately comics are for kids (no offense to adult comic fans).


That's why you get the more hard-edged stuff like Watchmen and The Punisher; either anti-heroes or a more realistic take on the way these types of individuals would have to function in the real world.

 

[Yeef]

Let's take Batman, the answer I've repeatedly been given as to why he doesn't kill is because he doesn't want anyone to go through the feeling of loneliness that he did when his parents died. Sure, that makes sense, but when the Joker or Penguin go around blowing stuff up and killing random innocents, then isn't it directly Batman's fault for letting those people continue to break out of prison and go on killing sprees?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRiX5Mh2YCo

 

[Sojgat]

A lot of the villains are more interesting than the heroes. Killing the villain can work in a two hour movie, even when they're the best characters, but most superhero comics are like never ending soap operas. Victor Kiriakis comes back even when you kill him off, because what else are you gonna do? Come up with new, better characters?

 

[Wiktor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRiX5Mh2YCo

Batman's logic sounds hollow and contrived there. If writers feel the need to go for the no kill rule it's better to never bring up the subject in the script.

 

[CloudWolf]

Kinda pointless to compare when real world, criminals tend to stay locked up, unlike comics where the criminals get out of jail each week.

Also, in the real world there are very few criminals that kill hundreds of people on a monthly basis.

 

[WanderingWind]

There is no logic. You can spin it anyway you'd like, but Batman doesn't kill Joker because of some sense of morality. He doesn't kill Joker because people like Joker and villains are hard to come up with. Superheroes too. I mean, once a moderate baseline of realism is set where Batman kills genocidal maniacs, then we have to ask why Scarecrow or Bane doesn't just flat out kill him next time he's unconscious or under the influence of fear gas. And you can't make movies and toys and video games off a bunch of B-listers that had to replace the cooler, deader guys.

 

[TetraxShards]

I don't think people who read comic books are looking for realism in the first place.

True dat.

Is Phoenix still dead?

If you mean Jean Grey, then yes. Sort of. Beast brought the original five X-Men from the past to the present. They tried to return to their time awhile back, but now can't for reasons that haven't been explained so far. Time travel in the Marvel Universe is broken due to this and other incidents.

 

[Mudcrab]

Its not like every villain in every comic is immune from death. It's just that the most historically popular villains are beloved by the readers and fans never really get tired of good stories that feature them.

Nobody wants to live in world where there are no more Doctor Doom stories.