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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?

LukasTaves said:
It's not about complexity, it's about not being as straightforward as a system wide friend list and chat system, which gets improved on with features like integrated looking for groups and such.

I mean, if I want to play overwatch with some friends on a console all I literally have to do is press the Xbox button, then up to go to the friends list and from there I can join or invite them with party chat all taken care of.

This is increasingly not as seamless on pc as you game from different vendors. For instance overwatch having different friendlists than steam, or use different applications to make for what the consoles have unified.
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Tha's what Steam is meant for. Now if only Blizzard or EA stepped up their game.
 
I try to get into pc games but after a week or two they just stop working and i dont know how to get them to run again. Getting pads to work is also a problem since the program i used turned into a paid thing and everything else doesnt work as well. I just havent seen these great strides in accessibility personally.
 
kunonabi said:
I try to get into pc games but after a week or two they just stop working and i dont know how to get them to run again. Getting pads to work is also a problem since the program i used turned into a paid thing and everything else doesnt work as well. I just havent seen these great strides in accessibility personally.
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Which pad ?
 
As someone who is gaming on PC since 22 years I can safely say that it has never been easier to play PC games "out of the box" than today.
Of course there will always be games that require heavy tinkering but I would say these are outliers nowdays and it's usually the fault of the dev.

With that being said even if a game runs fine I always find myself spending alot of time tweaking the game to get the most out of it.
I can spent hours of finding the optimal settings for graphics, framerate or controls to fit my needs.

Of course this is an optional process but It's like a personal compulsion for me. Like I feel obligated to make it perfect.
And ye sometimes that can distract me from the actual game but most of the time I enjoy that process.

Anyway whenever I play an exclusive title on the PS4 I enjoy just to jump right into the game without all of that.
BUT if I would get the choice to play these exclusives on PC I would still choose PC :)
 
Fredrik said:
Pretty much every time there is a console vs PC gaming discussion going on there are a bunch if people saying that PC gaming require too much work compared to consoles.

I used to be a console-only gamer, enough to even get me banned by trying to shut up PC gamers in my console threads.

Then I bought a PC 4 years ago. Windows 7, i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 780ti. Windows preinstalled.

During these past 4 years I haven't "fiddled" with any driver or patches, I've just bought the games on Steam and everything has just worked with zero tinkering. The fiddling is taken care of by Steam without me knowing about it. Quite amazing really. Steam sometimes says that it has been automatically updated and restarts with one mouse click and a 10 second start up time, that's pretty much how far my tinkering has gone. If I want to use a controller I just plug it in and it instantly works and the UI in the games swap to indicate buttons instead of keys. Quite amazing really.

Honestly, PC gaming could be sold with Apple's "It just works." slogan from my point of view.

I swapped out my 780ti to a 980ti 2 years ago though, but even that was surprisingly easy: power down the computer, loosen the cables and screws, pull out the old card, plug in the new card, reconnect the cables and tighten the screws, power up the computer. Done.

Those who complain about how difficult PC gaming is simply cannot have used a modern PC with Steam.

You definitely _can_ fiddle with a bunch of stuff if you want to. But you don't have to if you don't want to, that's the thing. I'm one of those that don't want any hassle, I just want to play games, and that's exactly what my PC has let me to do.

So where does that complexity talk come from? From my point if view it's just as easy to game on PC as consoles.
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There are multiple threads about PC problems popping up daily. Console problems are much simpler.
 
Let's assume that yes, PC gaming requires a degree of "tinkering" in order to play (untrue), the tinkering in my eyes, is largely a good thing.

If not anything, it gives you option to enjoy the game however you like. Generally you have automated recommended settings (plus things like Geforce experience) which just works out of the gate. If you want to turn something on/off, your'e welcome to it.

I don't see this as a flaw but a major plus. All this without considering the wealth of other "tinkering" options such as mods, reShade, ENB etc.
 
I have gaming PC, PS4 Pro and an Xbox One which I don't use much.

Gaming on a PC is so much better with all the options you have in the settings and all the modifications you can do to a game. Kinda reminds of the console being like iOS completely closed off without many options to give it your own flavor, it's the same across the board. While Android, you have more freedom to do more things, but people might find it harder and prefer the simplest form.

I understand people might not like options in games, just start it up and play, that's their style. On the PC side, you have a system that is more powerful than the PS4 Pro or Xbox Scorpio and it will give you the freedom the closed off Console's never will. Also, no generational gap. I want to play Mortal Kombat 9 or the old Simpsons: Hit and Run, I can easily do that on my gaming PC.

The PS4 is a great option to have. As a gamer, you are missing out on a lot of great first party games if you stay exclusive to one system. Third Party games? I tend to buy them on multiple formats, and usually I end up playing them more on the PC over console because of the frame rate, resolution, textures, etc.... Oh and by the way, Arkham Knight had issues on PC at first, but it surely runs perfectly now.

In the end, I wish 3rd part developers would develop games with the highest PC specs in mind, then port those over into console, not as it's happening now. Kinda like my days when the games would be released on the Arcade first, the best version, then ported over to the SNES, Sega Genesis, Sega CD and 32X. I know that won't happen though as the average person primarily games on a console or a Smart Phone.
 
IISANDERII said:
There are multiple threads about PC problems popping up daily. Console problems are much simpler.
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How are they "much simpler"? Problems are largely the same except that you cannot do anything to make it better.

Let's take a recent example:

Nier: Automata comes broken on PC, on full screen you will not get the resolution you've setup in config. 15 minutes after release you have a community fix using a 3rd party app. Within 24h you've got custom software that allows to do that but also reduce GI for better performance and uncap fps among other stuff.

Prey: PS4 version comes with input lag that ruins the experience for some people. What can you do about it?

Much simpler.
 
I've an old PC gamer that stopped a while back. Been gaming since my 386 IBM PS2. I've had bad luck with video cards dying on me (AMD in mid 2000's) and I was just sick of the issues. I hear is better now and I was thinking about jumping in again so I went to PC part picked and was looking at custom builds. Looked at the first couple with liquid cooling and they took over a month to build with special tools. Looked awesome but I knew I'd fuck it up if I tried. So then I went to see about a make manufacturer and they wanted $1500 for a good rig. I just decided fuck it ill sick with consoles even tough I'd like to play Starcraft and Player Unknown Battlegrounds.

This is just my opinion/experience so please don't try to tear me down and call me lazy and dumb etc. I just wanted to share one case of why someone finds it tough to jump back in.
 
If you want easy PC gaming, opt for a good laptop. Just like consoles, tou can carry it to your friends and play without many issues.

Desktops are more fickle.

Windows Store still has some issues.


If you want to play or utilize older games, things can be tricky. Eg I want to play some games in Ultrawide screen. Have to look for patches, modified games and exe files, registry and hex edits etc.

Also I am still not too comfortable with Gedosato, Reshade and SweetFX.

If I exclude all this, PC gaming is as easy as consoles. Better have an alterate and clean Windows account in case things go wrong with primary account.
 
I love PC gaming but you 100% have to tinker. First thing I do when I boot a game is go right to options.

I suppose you could not, but often you'll be left with suboptimal setting, or an I playable mess at worst.

It's getting better, I'll give it that.
 
Once I know I can tinker, I can for about an hour then give up if I can't get results. Fixing Tomb Raider 1 (the old one) is the limit of my understanding I feel like.
 
Krispolls has probably posted that similar screed like a hundred times guys. Like 50 percent of his posting history is "I have a 1070 PC but I like my PS4 because it doesn't have ini files" type of wankery.


From a few years ago (and probably more, I just remember seeing nearly his exact same posts a lot before:

The main reason why I mostly play on console is I don't want to bother with configuration and technical trouble with every game. I tried Watch Dogs PC, stuttering was everywhere. Ran it on PS4, it worked perfectly.

Yesterday I download Fifa 15 PC demo, goes in windowed mode with stuttering and never goes back fullscreen. Zero problem on PS4. It's always like that. Devs just don't care about PC, because money is mostly on consoles. It won't change, because piracy won't go away.

I'm 40, I've got money, money is not the problem, TIME is the problem. When I come back from work, I don't want to bother with ini, settings, technical bugs and drivers to gain 2 fps over the console version or just make it work. I want to play now and be sure it'll work. Consoles are just better for that. I don't care if it has 5 less pixels, I just don't see them, sorry.

The simple fact that PC gamers always try to convince you to go PC and console players never do the same tells you all you need to know. PC gamers are the ones having trouble justifying the money they put in this. Console gamers are ok with their choice, they just don't care about PC. Stop trying to convince us every single time, you're just losing your time and it screams insecurity.

And that's without even talking about cheaters, console exclusives you miss (that I like more than PC exclusives, except maybe Civilization) or big games coming 2 years later. I wouldn't face mouse / kb players with my pad in a PC FPS either, it just doesn't make sense. So you've got tons of reasons not to go PC actually. Especially with diminishing returns, which will make harder and harder to notice any difference in power.
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Pretty much all the same talking points from a few years ago, I though I remembered that. It's amusing his line of "The simple fact that PC gamers always try to convince you to go PC and console players never do the same tells you all you need to know. PC gamers are the ones having trouble justifying the money they put in this. Console gamers are ok with their choice, they just don't care about PC. Stop trying to convince us every single time, you're just losing your time and it screams insecurity." given his nearly copy pasted shtick throughout the years. Well, he updated his age at least.
 
Hux1ey said:
Geforce experience does automatic settings.
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Yeah, but that comes with it's own share of problems. A quick search on this very forum shows many people complaining about the chosen settings being no good and updates crashing it or causing other problems with their pcs, most old, but there are some late 2016 threads too.
 
Jaguar Victory said:
This is just my opinion/experience so please don't try to tear me down and call me lazy and dumb etc. I just wanted to share one case of why someone finds it tough to jump back in.
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I won't, but surely at the point you were looking at custom built liquid cooling using special bespoke tools that took a substantial lead period to complete you must have realised that you are venturing deep into specialist enthusiast territory?
 
I never fiddle with my PCs and that's probably why I rarely if ever have issues. Many people *think* they need to do things but you really don't. I build my PC, throw OS on it, load my games, and play said games. No tinkering is necessary.

I also can't remember the last time I had an issue that was because of my PC and not some developer pushing out a poorly done game riddled with bugs.

I'm not saying driver bugs and the such don't exist, but it's not that common.
 
LukasTaves said:
Yeah, but that comes with it's own share of problems. A quick search on this very forum shows many people complaining about the chosen settings being no good and updates crashing it or causing other problems with their pcs, most old, but there are some late 2016 threads too.
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GeForce settings often undershoot what your computer is capable of, so if you know and are willing to deal with game settings, you can easily find better settings for your game than what GeForce gives you.

But that's not the point. If I didn't care or want to change settings, the GeForce settings would just work fine and I wouldn't have to think about it.
 
In response to the OP:

Because it's true. Built my first PC last year and I've 'fiddled with it' more than probably every console I've ever had combined. I'm not complaining about it - but it's true.

Whether it's Nvidia drivers breaking certain games, Windows 10 updates causing all kinds of fucking issues. Setting custom resolutions to get rid of black bars. The list goes on and on... and that doesn't include in-game settings.

Games like Watch Dogs 2 & Ghost Recon Wildlands (just recent examples since I played them both last night) have countless graphic settings & adjustments and it really does take a solid 30 minutes of tweaking in some cases to achieve the perfect balance between performance and image quality. It absolutely takes an extra level of time, patience and dedication that some console gamers have no use for.

Somebody saying they've had a PC for 4 years and never 'fiddled' with a driver or had to troubleshoot any software issues are either incredibly lucky or (more likely) lying.

That all said - I wouldn't have it any other way. Aside from the Switch, I can't see myself going back to consoles for a long time.
 
I really am 42. I have a PS4,Xbox 1,Switch and a PC 6700k/1070. Not sure why people have issues with a PC. I download a game on Steam and play it. It's similar to what I would do on Console. Battlefield 1 on Ultra/Gsync Monitor looks fantastic.

If you want to tinker you can,but if you just want to play it's that easy.
 
Krisprolls said:
I love those threads where nerds from around the world assemble to tell us how their PC is so easy to use.

I'm 42, I work in computing, and even I acknowledge my console is a lot easier to use than my PC. Press button, play.

On PC you're constantly fighting with the OS, fighting with the drivers, fighting with the settings and so on.

And no in the end it doesn't even always look better (when it even runs, see Batman or tons of other shitty PC ports). My €400 PS4 Pro plays games in 4k / 30 fps, which my Geforce €1200 1070 PC can't even do. Games like Horizon look better on PS4 Pro than anything on my 1070 PC.

And that's without thinking about cheaters / hacks on PC, or the impossibility of playing multiplayer games with a pad vs mouse players on a fair level (obviously).

So unless you're a nerd and likes constantly solving settings / drivers / OS issues, don't believe the nerds. Going console is perfectly fine. I know, I have both and I play mostly on consoles.
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call people who plays on another platform nerds and in the meantime pay 1200€ for a 1070 guys
 
Shari said:
How are they "much simpler"? Problems are largely the same except that you cannot do anything to make it better.

Let's take a recent example:

Nier: Automata comes broken on PC, on full screen you will not get the resolution you've setup in config. 15 minutes after release you have a community fix using a 3rd party app. Within 24h you've got custom software that allows to do that but also reduce GI for better performance and uncap fps among other stuff.

Prey: PS4 version comes with input lag that ruins the experience for some people. What can you do about it?

Much simpler.
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No one denies that you have more options on PC and things like modding and community patches. But it's that stuff that requires the "tinkering" some people don't want to spend time on. Console gaming is simpler because of less options.
 
LukasTaves said:
Yeah, but that comes with it's own share of problems. A quick search on this very forum shows many people complaining about the chosen settings being no good and updates crashing it or causing other problems with their pcs, most old, but there are some late 2016 threads too.
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How weird you dont do these same quick searches for PSN connection problems, for example.

The way you refuse arguments because there are instances of problems attached pretty much disallows any further conversation since consoles have instances of problems equally, from hardware to software. Standby, remote play, disc reading/ejection, controller synchronization, TV output settings...

Mr.Deadshot said:
No one denies that you have more options on PC and things like modding and community patches. But it's that stuff that requires the "tinkering" some people don't want to spend time on. Console gaming is simpler because of less options.
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At this point we're speaking tinkering vs not playing because broken. Hard to endorse "keeping it simple even if stuck" than "possibility of tinkering for a fix".
 
pinballsummer said:
In response to the OP:

Because it's true. Built my first PC last year and I've 'fiddled with it' more than probably every console I've ever had combined. I'm not complaining about it - but it's true.

Whether it's Nvidia drivers breaking certain games, Windows 10 updates causing all kinds of fucking issues. Setting custom resolutions to get rid of black bars. The list goes on and on... and that doesn't include in-game settings.

Games like Watch Dogs 2 & Ghost Recon Wildlands (just recent examples since I played them both last night) have countless graphic settings & adjustments and it really does take a solid 30 minutes of tweaking in some cases to achieve the perfect balance between performance and image quality. It absolutely takes an extra level of time, patience and dedication that some console gamers have no use for.

Somebody saying they've had a PC for 4 years and never 'fiddled' with a driver or had to troubleshoot any software issues are either incredibly lucky or (more likely) lying.
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You took 30 mins to tweak a game setting? What
 
I guess I'm blessed. Never had a problem with my top of line PC (i3 & 1050ti). The most tinkering I have to do is changing in the resolution of some games and maybe toggle VSYNC.
 
jwc13ac said:
It's getting better, I'll give it that.
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I just remembered, Nvidia software thing has an "optimise" button. You really need that across all games and that is a big hurdle gone. It seems a hell of a lot better than the detection tools. Ideally you need that built into the game and the game constantly keeps in sync with the optimum settings for your hardware.

Now that would be no tinkering.
 
I've been gaming on PC in some form for at least 15 years. Worked technical support for a bit as well. Build them too. PCs can be a pain in the ass sometimes. I don't know why why folks are trying to act like they aren't. Issues are less frequent then they used to be, sure, but things do pop up from time to time. Last time I played on PC, I had to spend a bunch of time troubleshooting driver issues with my
X1 controllers as my play anywhere games wouldn't recognize it. I eventually got it to work, but most people wouldn't have the first clue at fixing it.

Its easy as a gaming enthusiast to say it's not a problem, but the majority of people out there can barely work out standard PC usage let alone other stuff. I'm working on a laptop now as a favor to someone that's just running like straight shit for various reasons. A lot of people just don't know what to do in that scenario.
 
because there are if you want the games to perform/look the way you want it to, obviously you can just play it as it is, some games probably work/run great on your machine without changing a single thing, but I find that more often than not you need to change a few things. Some games will miss certain resolution support, some has no controller support, some need a hack to run above 30fps, some has no AA, etc. AAA titles might run bad on mid range card so you need to turn off a few things.

to me is a good thing there are options, it's why I prefer games on pc, if something is "broken" on consoles, you can't do a thing about it and you need to beg the developers for a patch, but I could see someone being turned off by it.
 
HashtagLapsed said:
So much of those threads are people trying to min max for performance and not necessarily struggling with game breaking issues. This is an entirely optional thing to take part in. Another thing that contributes to those threads is people with higher standards than most wanting the game to perform better.

Honestly, the vast, vast majority of time you just install a game on steam and play it without having to do anything.
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I know that, that's actually the point I was making. It's not bad because it's there, but it's not as straightforward as a console that more often than not get the settings just right for their hardware or at least what the developer found it was (save for unnecessary architectural yikes like esram on xbone).

A good example of what I mean would be The Witcher 2 on 360.it's not just adjusting slides to make the game run great on the console, the developer actually reworked their effects to be a better suit for the console,meaning that even if you had a pc equivalent to the 360 settings you couldn't set the game to be as pretty or run that we'll because the 360 version was completely crafted for the console.

Now, consoles having custom made effects and settings is happening less and less as developers go for pc as their first platform, but you will always be able to count on all the tinkering to be done by the developers themselves for you.
 
Krisprolls said:
I love those threads where nerds from around the world assemble to tell us how their PC is so easy to use.

I'm 42, I work in computing, and even I acknowledge my console is a lot easier to use than my PC. Press button, play.

On PC you're constantly fighting with the OS, fighting with the drivers, fighting with the settings and so on.

And no in the end it doesn't even always look better (when it even runs, see Batman or tons of other shitty PC ports). My €400 PS4 Pro plays games in 4k / 30 fps, which my Geforce €1200 1070 PC can't even do. Games like Horizon look better on PS4 Pro than anything on my 1070 PC.

And that's without thinking about cheaters / hacks on PC, or the impossibility of playing multiplayer games with a pad vs mouse players on a fair level (obviously).

So unless you're a nerd and likes constantly solving settings / drivers / OS issues, don't believe the nerds. Going console is perfectly fine. I know, I have both and I play mostly on consoles.
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Sorry but I honestly can't agree with any of that.

Fighting the OS, drivers and settings?

Like I said, I bought my PC 4 years ago and I just powered it up and started gaming. I've had no OS fighting, the drivers are auto-updated I guess because I haven't manually installed a single driver yet, the settings are preset if I don't want to change it. Nvidia experience tells me that my GPU driver needs to be updated, but it works so I just shrugs and keep on gaming instead.

And everytime I see something running above 60fps I'm thinking "why didn't I start with PC gaming sooner??". It still blown my mind seeing something above 60fps. And I mean I even got a ban once for requesting PC gamers to talk elsewhere than in my console-focused thread, I was deep deep into console gaming, too deep. I'm so glad I finally woke up!

It's true though that you totally _can_ tinker with a PC, it's open to everything, but do you _really_ have to? I sure haven't so far.
 
I love PC gaming and the flexibility of it...but I certainly wouldn't deny I've had wildly frustrating experiences getting some games to work the way I want them to...not to mention the mad panic that comes with stuttering in a game, wondering if that's something on the system's end.

Still love it to bits! But I certainly wouldn't dismiss the concerns of folks over some of those annoyances. I'm willing to persevere with them for the sake of a wide library and diverse feature set, but I don't blame those who aren't.

It may also be a case of what games you play; I'm often going back to stuff from several years back, which of course won't in a vanilla state always be exactly what you want for FOV/image quality/etc.
 
I used to be into PC gaming in the late 90s/early 2000s but I frankly don't have the time or energy to invest in it these days.

With my limited gaming time, I prefer to be able to just buy a game, pop it in and not have to worry about if it's going to be compatible with this and that piece of hardware in my setup, this driver, that gamepad and so on.

It's no slight against PC gaming at all, I'd love to get into it again actually because of games like Prey, but it's just too fucking much for me at this point.
 
pinballsummer said:
Uh yeah - have you seen the Watch Dogs 2 settings menu?
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/guides/watch-dogs-2-graphics-and-performance-guide

30 minutes is actually pretty short, considering how many options they give you.
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Mr.Deadshot said:
Totally possible to get an optimal result. Did it too with some games because my PC is older and I have to find a "sweet spot" for some more demanding games.
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Gotta love how on pc you need to "get an optimal result" but on console you can just sit back and relax.

Do you imagine if most PC games had an "auto" level for graphics? Heck do you imagine if some would even have dynamic resolution for a target performance?

Crazy stuff.
 
I work at a computer all day. Just the thought of having to access a game via the same operating system that I use for work all day makes me feel physically ill.
 
Fredrik said:
Sorry but I honestly can't agree with any of that.

Fighting the OS, drivers and settings?

Like I said, I bought my PC 4 years ago and I just powered it up and started gaming. I've had no OS fighting, the drivers are auto-updated I guess because I haven't manually installed a single driver yet, the settings are preset if I don't want to change it. Nvidia experience tells me that my GPU driver needs to be updated, but it works so I just shrugs and keep on gaming instead.

And everytime I see something running above 60fps I'm thinking "why didn't I start with PC gaming sooner??". It still blown my mind seeing something above 60fps. And I mean I even got a ban once for requesting PC gamers to talk elsewhere than in my console-focused thread, I was deep deep into console gaming, too deep. I'm so glad I finally woke up!

It's true though that you totally _can_ tinker with a PC, it's open to everything, but do you _really_ have to? I sure haven't so far.
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Well, that's awesome - and I am happy for you. Your experience of turning your PC on 4 years ago and never having to tinker with it since is mindboggling to me - especially if you're gaming at 60 FPS (and assuming above 1080p).

Congratulations to you.

You don't have to 'agree' with me. I'm telling you facts from my (and I'd go as far as to say ALL my PC gamer friends) experiences that are quite different from yours. It's not about agreeing. You asked a question - I answered it with firsthand knowledge.
 
IISANDERII said:
There are multiple threads about PC problems popping up daily. Console problems are much simpler.
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How many PC gamers are there though? Maybe the people with problems are still in minority? Or maybe they tweaked with something they should have left alone?
I can only go by my own experience. I know I haven't fiddled with anything I shouldn't have. And no issues in 4 years so far for me. Pure luck?
 
DJwest said:
What tinkering is there to do on the Pro? Come on.
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Do I activate Beast Mode or not? How do I know without going to GAF is a game is Pro patched or not?

Do I set the game for performance or quality if the game has options? If it has options, how do I know what's best? Do I setup quality if I dont have a 4K set? Does the game downsample to 1080p if I set quality or am I just wasting precious performance?

Don't even get me started if you have HDR and have to setup the TV. RGB range? Deep color? Does my TV have HDR enable for the HDMI port that my PS4 is running on?

Come on.

GHG said:
I work at a computer all day. Just the thought of having to access a game via the same operating system that I use for work all day makes me feel physically ill.
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I dont even know if this is for real. You might need to think about your career, maybe you don't like what you do for a living.
 
GHG said:
I work at a computer all day. Just the thought of having to access a game via the same operating system that I use for work all day makes me feel physically ill.
Click to expand...

The real reason 360 beat out the PS3 early on - those PS3s being used as cluster computing and running Folding@Home, until they removed OtherOS and people were allowed to buy PS3s again
 
I love PC gaming and I have been playing on the PC since Wolf 3D/California games days... but the PC can be a bunch of bullshit sometimes.

Last Friday I literally spent 2 hours trying to play Forza Horizon 3 on the PC, first it wouldn't boot past the "Optimizing for this PC" loading screen, tried a bunch of fixes online (disable all microphone devices, update drivers, bla bla bla), nothing worked.

Figured the installation was corrupted so uninstalled it, when I tried to install it again... Windows 10 store had no install button... anywhere, tried fixes I found online, nothing...

Finally gave up and called microsoft support, took them another 30 minutes to recover the install button...

Anyways, I never got to play it... I was beyond pissed as I had dragged my racing wheel out to try the new update...

Should have just played GT 6 on the PS3...
 
Honestly, the only PC 'issues' I ever had to deal with is with my dev environment screwing with stuff. I keep a separate, 4 year old, X51 on the projector and have honestly never touched a setting outside of normal menu items.
 
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