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[Fredrik]

I feel like I am in a similar camp but with resolution.

When you've been in 4K-land for awhile, 1440p starts looking a bit sad, and 1080p? Garbage! GARBAGE!

heh yeah you really get used to better stuff way too fast and going back is just urk. :/
1440p is great though, then you can at least have 144hz. 4K144hz is not feasible. But I'll try to endure 1080p on PC for now, I'm far too invested in triple screens and really want that 144hz smoothness or it'll feel like I'm downgrading the rig even the resolution gets higher. It would be like if Gran Turismo Sports was 60fps1080p on OG PS4 and 30fps4K on Pro.

 

[Widge]

there is some basic stuff you need to learn

which brings us back to "Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?"

 

[R00bot]

Because PC gaming is more difficult with more tinkering than consoles.

 

[SmokedMeat]

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/cpu-socket-types-explained-from-socket-5-to-bga-makeuseof-explains/

If you are going to mouth off, it really helps if you know what you are talking about.

No, power supply choice is nothing like choosing a microwave.


Anything is easy when you know what you are doing, how difficult is that for you to understand.

Hahahaha I thought you meant something else.

Anyways nothing you brought up is complicated for the person that takes a few minutes of time to read up on if they're interested. I don't know of anyone that dives headfirst into something they know nothing about.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/cpu-socket-types-explained-from-socket-5-to-bga-makeuseof-explains/

If you are going to mouth off, it really helps if you know what you are talking about.

No, power supply choice is nothing like choosing a microwave.


Anything is easy when you know what you are doing, how difficult is that for you to understand.

Why do you need an explanation of a socket if almost all shops even show what socket that CPU belongs to so you know what MoBo you need to buy. I mean Skylake, Kabylake 1151, buy a 1151 Mobo. Thats 20 seconds of using Google. And like I said. Most of the time the shops even show which socket it has and which socket a Mobo has.
Its like "Well. My TV has a HDMI-In. I guess I need a HDMI cable and not a USB cable."

Also buying a PSU is really easy. Buy a 600-700W one and you are most likely ready for everything...

 

[ViolentP]

I'm not talking about using, the only way to avoid getting mugged off in PC gaming is to build it yourself.

Sit your average Joe down and start banging on about motherboards, socket types, thermal pastes, power requirements and then send them out into the wild to source the shit, then put it together... it's not in the same park as lifting a console out of a box and plugging it into the tv.

Agreed. But that is due to being entirely different products, not because of any kind of deficiency in the design of the product. I think your example is true but I also believe there is an opposite side to it. Just as I wouldn't put a console player in front of an unbuilt PC to fend for themselves, I wouldn't put someone who prefers options and flexibility in front of a closed platform. It's two separate products that caters to two different mindsets, but neither should be considered inferior when ultimately it's a question of catering to preference.

 

[John Kowalski]

So you'd rather not have the option to play old games at all?

I'll take the hassle if it means i have the chance to play them.

I do play on pc and I do play old games but I understand that to some the exchange may not be so fair.

 

[RowdyReverb]

I just don't like having to decide the graphics/performance trade-offs based on my PC hardware. Would rather have the game optimized by the developer to look good and play well 99% of the time. It doesn't help that it seems there are always threads complaining about poor PC ports that don't run well regardless of your settings and hardware.

It always seems like the best way to enjoy PC gaming is to have expensive high end hardware so you don't have to worry about this stuff, and that cost has been a big barrier to entry for me. If I had more disposable income, I'd gladly buy and build a PC for gaming.

 

[orava]

One of the main reasons why i will never get a console is because it's so dumbed down. It means limitations, hand holding and control which is just unbearable.

 

[fantomena]

PC still requires som tinkering, but it's no doubt better and more ease-to-use then 5 years ago. Still, I needed help to build my new PC I bought last year. Ive had big controller problems with my PC (thanksfully got help from SteamGAF), Nier Automata had to be modded, I recently had problems with Geforce Experience (black screen, not being able to load info online).

So yeah, it's easier to use, but still requries some annoying tinkering.

I do have a PS4 and a Switch (sold my Xbone for a Switch cause the Xbone was useless for me and games are coming to Win 10 Store, mgiht pick up a cheap Xbone in the future if something changes to Xbox first party output, like not releasing on PC).

I buy 80% of my games on PC, because 1) better performance 2) options (modding, settings) 3) download speeds (Steam always downloads games and patches so much faster than console)

 

[Izuna]

He was talking about hardware combos, not how many variations exist within that combo.

I fail to see the distinction here.

 

[*Splinter]

Why do you need an explanation of a socket if almost all shops even show what socket that CPU belongs to so you know what MoBo you need to buy. I mean Skylake, Kabylake 1151, buy a 1151 Mobo. Thats 20 seconds of using Google. And like I said. Most of the time the shops even show which socket it has and which socket a Mobo has.
Its like "Well. My TV has a HDMI-In. I guess I need a HDMI cable and not a USB cable."

So if I get a GTX 1080 I should get a 1080 mobo?

(I know this is wrong, but you're essentially saying "this is easy if you already know everything you need to know", which is quite a meaningless statement)

Also buying a PSU is really easy. Buy a 600-700W one and you are most likely ready for everything...

And "most likely" doesn't really cut it if you're spending several hundred dollars on something.

 

[PuppetMaster]

Been PC gaming since the 90s. Have built dozens of gaming PC at this point.

Some PCs built at the right time with the right components and mature OS will work almost flawlessly (until the components or chipset becomes no longer well supported). And then you will have other PCs that are a total nightmare from day 1.


Basically its similar to owning a car. Some cars work great from day 1 and continue to for several years. Other cars are nothing but trouble and spend all thier time in the shop. Also, like cars, it seems the more cutting edge ones have more failure points and are breaking down more often.

 

[BLAUcopter]

I used to be a PC gamer exclusively however moved to console gaming and dabbled back and forth for years. The last rig I built was for battlefield 3 and that was almost 8 years ago I'd guess!!

Recently I purchased an MSI gaming laptop which is pretty fucking awesome but you can't deny that it's more complicated than simply turning on your PS4.

Soon as I'd installed the latest windows updates I started having crazy issues with the backlight on the keyboard. Turns out after stuffing around that there were 2 apps that control the keyboard colours, the steel series software and MSI's own dragon center.
Then there are overclocking options, display options, in game graphical settings, config files, gpu drivers, firmware updates, an entirely new gaming eco system with steam or origin or gog and then there's all the chat programs like discord I mean I could go on and on really.

 

[mxgt]

PC gaming is and always has been a bitch.

For starters, the build you choose can be flawed out of the box and you will never know why.
"Oh that motherboard is known for having X issue"
"That graphics card doesn't get along too well with that CPU"
"You have created a bottleneck with those parts, this part is slower than that other one and you're not taking full advantage of it"
"The PSU you bought is insufficient, should have gone with a bigger one"
"That RAM is slow, this other brand with the very same specs is better quality, more expensive, faster RAM"

Etc etc etc etc.

This is the kind of stuff you only learn about AFTER you bought the thing, and drives me mad because no matter how good you think you are at researching you will always fuck it up at some level.

Honestly if you're unsure about all of the above then you should be buying pre-built from a trusted web store rather than doing it yourself.

I bought my first PC pre-built, and after that my last two I've made myself and I've never had any issues that you mentioned.

 

[Klart]

Well, the "difficulty" starts with what to buy.

For a PC you have a ton of options. Even when you buy something prebuilt, you have to know what you're buying & what you need. You have to inform yourself more than when buying a console.

A console is still much simpler. You just buy a Playstation 4 and you can play your GTA, FIFA & COD.

 

[toddhunter]

Honestly if you're unsure about all of the above then you should be buying pre-built from a trusted web store rather than doing it yourself.

I bought my first PC pre-built, and after that my last two I've made myself and I've never had any issues that you mentioned.

If you knew a trusted web store, you probably don't need a trusted web store.

 

[grandwizard]

A lot of people somehow do. Remember when the 970 launched and a lot of people built their first gaming PC or first gaming PC in years and they were 100% sure it will run everything at ULTRA for years?

No? Why would people expect that when new games are constantly going to be coming out with new Ultras that push the bar even higher?

Also the 970 is still a beast. Running Prey right now at 1080p and high and getting 90-100 fps. One of the best cards I've ever bought.


RE: OP

The truth is that PC gaming has gotten a lot less complicated and issue-prone over the last few years and console have gotten more so. It's still not equal and you will probably run into a few more issues on the PC side in the long run, but its up to the user if the benefits outweigh that like infinite BC and cheaper and wider game library.

The problem I have with this discussion is how many people don't talk about how bad consoles have gotten with regards to reliability and a smooth gaming experience. Games like Dishonored 2 get notorious for being 'bad PC ports' when really they were bad on the technical side on every platform, it's just that PC gamers make more noise about it because they expect better. A game like Prey just came out where it suffers terrible input lag on the PS4 and is one of the best PC versions one could hope for. How many games this gen have had technical issues on console that we would have thought was impossible back in gen 6? Look at stuff like Broforce, No man's Sky, Battlefield 4, etc.

 

[Chairmanchuck]

So if I get a GTX 1080 I should get a 1080 mobo?

(I know this is wrong, but you're essentially saying "this is easy if you already know everything you need to know", which is quite a meaningless statement)

I dont deny that it might seem like much first, but I would argue after even asking here on GAF after 10 minutes you get what you need if you wanna build a PC. There is even a thread dedicated on custom builds here.
Its really not rocket-science and thats what a lot of folks think it is.

No? Why would people expect that when new games are constantly going to be coming out with new Ultras that push the bar even higher?
Also the 970 is still a beast. Running Prey right now at 1080p and high and getting 90-100 fps. One of the best cards I've ever bought.

New PC-Gamers during the 970 era were under that impression and I dont blame them. Hardware cycles in the PC-space, if you want to keep up with graphics, are still far smaller than (most) console cycles.

 

[ViciousDS]

Totally, it sounds like this:
"Just bought my console, so happy, no more fiddling with drivers and patches!"

...and I'm like:
"drivers?? patches??"

Steam and Windows has handled it all for me, my PC is always on so I guess the "fiddling" happens while I'm a sleep or something, I'm actually amazed at how easy it has been.

Even installing redistributables has been a cake walk since windows 8. It pops up and is like "bitch, you need this before running this app", oh......clicks install

Done!

 

[Outrun]

It still carries the possibility of being more difficult when you stray from more standard cookie cutter builds. I enjoy troubleshooting though so it's never been a significant deterrent.

This. And I want to add, things get more complex if you want to play older games.

Complex, not impossible.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Hahahaha I thought you meant something else.

Anyways nothing you brought up is complicated for the person that takes a few minutes of time to read up on if they're interested. I don't know of anyone that dives headfirst into something they know nothing about.

Why do you need an explanation of a socket if almost all shops even show what socket that CPU belongs to so you know what MoBo you need to buy. I mean Skylake, Kabylake 1151, buy a 1151 Mobo. Thats 20 seconds of using Google. And like I said. Most of the time the shops even show which socket it has and which socket a Mobo has.
Its like "Well. My TV has a HDMI-In. I guess I need a HDMI cable and not a USB cable."

Also buying a PSU is really easy. Buy a 600-700W one and you are most likely ready for everything...

Again, it you know what you are doing and it is simple, you don't, and everything you both said is daunting to the uninitiated, it's not even up for debate.

Socket type and hdmi cable analogy doesn't work when when every tv uses the same cable.

 

[Sarcasm]

Especially since everything is color coded in PC building now a days.

It is only confusing and hard to people who don't have an ounce of self motivation.

 

[ArtHands]

The decline of consoles is pretty much inevitable as it evolves from a medium stuck to a single TV into something that can be accessed anytime / anywhere, the same way that music, films and TV have.

That's completely unrelated over personal preference for one particular option over another that's available right now though. People aren't "scared" of anything.

That doesnt explain the spreading of this myth though.

 

[highrider]

I base it on looking at pc settings threads here lol. Actually I'm not against pc at all, but 80 percent of my gaming time is Halo so I'm just content with playing Xbox.

 

[Tecnniqe]

I base it on looking at pc settings threads here lol. Actually I'm not against pc at all, but 80 percent of my gaming time is Halo so I'm just content with playing Xbox.

Do you read the threads or just see them and go "whew glad I don't have options"?

 

[Animagne]

PC gaming is simple until it isn't.

When I have an issue with console game, it's fair to assume that a large proportion of other players have that issue as well. And if it is game breaking, it would probably have to be patched fast.

If I have an issue with PC game, I can't make that assumption. I have to hope that googling would return relevant results, because I wouldn't have the time to hack it myself, with massive backlog I have. That's if the game launches at all.

Just last week, I had three separate issues. One with a game not working after creator's update. Most of the posts online (from a month ago) either mocking whoever posted that they installed beta update or that they installed windows 10 (because "7/8.1 is working fine"). I also had two issues with older games: not having directplay legacy components enabled and having to replace executable to launch it in the first place (bought that game from GoG). That feels like a regular week when I mess around with older PC games. Over all of the years I've been playing on consoles, I have run into a single gamebreaking issue, that required reloading save multiple times. That's it.

 

[cantona222]

For me, PC overall is becoming irrelevant in 2017 for personal/home use. It used to make sense for me before to use the PC when I needed it for daily browsing and other internet uses. Now I do most of that on either the tablet or phone and rarely need to switch on my 8 year old non gaming PC.

 

[highrider]

Do you read the threads or just see them and go "whew glad I don't have options"?

I think the importance of those options is different depending on the person. Mostly I'm motivated by games I enjoy, and there isn't anything exclusive to pc that I find very interesting. Having better performance is great, but not important enough to me to find a gaming pc viable.

 

[GLAMr]

PC gaming can really be as involved as you want. There are so many excellent gaming PCs and laptops available off the shelf at reasonable prices. With Windows automatic updates and Steam/Battle.Net/Origin/uPlay, it's all fairly seamless. Or you can carefully pick and tweak every part.

People are just gonna like what they like though... You're wasting your time trying to convince fanboys that another platform has merits.

 

[Yudoken]

Many people I know staying on console don't really had a own pc rig they've built themselves.

They either got a home pc which they've upgraded with a more capable gpu or got a "gaming" pc without a good gpu or a SSD with enough space.

Most of the time those builds are quite unreliable because the companies really cheap out on parts like the psu, motherboard, cooling and more.

People like them associate pc gaming with that experience which is way different then starting from a own build pc with quality parts.

A good motherboard for an example can be a huge difference for the years to come.

Very cheap mobo's (especially in prebuilds) often have unreliable usb ports and I even had a case where the lan port stopped working.

He was lucky and was able to use a pci card to solve both of those problems with a lan/2x USB 3.0 card.

Consoles are still the easiest way to go (they're especially great for transportation and events) but if you want a long term investment (games and hardware) and you're interested in the best versions of the games (at least technically) pc's is the way to go.

Even simple games like Rocket League are just so much better on pc especially with the bigger input lag on PS4.

 

[Hux1ey]

Do people really still build their PC on their own these days?

Yes, because it's cheaper and I actually enjoy it.

 

[Kudo]

PC gaming is simple until it isn't.

I think this is very well said.

 

[120v]

For me, PC overall is becoming irrelevant in 2017 for personal/home use. It used to make sense for me before to use the PC when I needed it for daily browsing and other internet uses. Now I do most of that on either the tablet or phone and rarely need to switch on my 8 year old non gaming PC.

because of this my PC is pretty much 100% for gaming. which feels kind of silly now i think about it, but a hobby is a hobby i guess

 

[Alej]

Simple answer:

On PC, you are responsible for the performance of your games. If it doesn't run well, you will always think you can make it run better.
It could be terrible forever if you or the devs do nothing about it.

On consoles, you aren't responsible for the performance of your games. If it doesn't run well, you wait for a fix or resell the game. It could be terrible forever if the devs do nothing about it.

Main difference between PC and consoles is your implication in the process.

 

[MikeyB]

Really?

Vs.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Again, it you know what you are doing and it is simple, you don't, and everything you both said is daunting to the uninitiated, it's not even up for debate.

Socket type and hdmi cable analogy doesn't work when when every tv uses the same cable.

This can be applied to anything in life. As I already stated, nothing about the PC is daunting, if you just take a moment to read about it. Who doesn't bother reading about something that interests them? If you're considering building a PC you read about it, its that simple. In this day and age there's a plethora of helpful resources.

Is it daunting if you don't bother reading about it? Yeah. So is everything else in life.

 

[Lister]

I just don't like having to decide the graphics/performance trade-offs based on my PC hardware. Would rather have the game optimized by the developer to look good and play well 99% of the time. It doesn't help that it seems there are always threads complaining about poor PC ports that don't run well regardless of your settings and hardware.

This is so hilarious.

With PC the trade offs are yours to decide, with console you're STUCK with whatever the dves decides to go with which, given all the threads about PS4's poor performance, or not doing this or the other, is usually the WRONG choice for a lot of people.

99% of PC multiplatform games look and run better on even entry level PC gaming hardware than they do on a PS4. And a PS4 Pro is still beaten by entry level hardware in most multiplats.

 

[Lister]

This can be applied to anything in life. As I already stated, nothing about the PC is daunting, if you just take a moment to read about it. Who doesn't bother reading about something that interests them? If you're considering building a PC you read about it, its that simple. In this day and age there's a plethora of helpful resources.

Is it daunting if you don't bother reading about it? Yeah. So is everything else in life.

Hell, look at the TV threads on this very forum. There's thousands of posts of people having to spend significant amounts of time researching the myriad of models and manufacturers for details like latency, Game mode support with HDR, etc, etc.

Only idiots go out and just buy the first thing the salesman shows them at best buy.

 

[Fredrik]

Well, the "difficulty" starts with what to buy.

For a PC you have a ton of options. Even when you buy something prebuilt, you have to know what you're buying & what you need. You have to inform yourself more than when buying a console.

A console is still much simpler. You just buy a Playstation 4 and you can play your GTA, FIFA & COD.

I didn't inform me on anything, it was too much since I had no knowledge of anything on new PCs, I just went to a custom PC shop and said that I wanted a great gaming PC and they built it, installed Windows, made some stress tests on it and that was it. Worked out great.

Upgrading the GPU 2 years later wasn't really needed but I got struck by the upgrade bug I admit that it caused me some headaches to understand what to choose, but I checked some reviews and went with a Gigabyte 980ti, installation process was surprisingly easy too as I said in the OP and it has no doubt been en extremely stable rig.

 

[SugarDave]

It's less to do with the perception that PC gaming is rocket science and more to do with consoles just being simpler.

 

[Grief.exe]

Many people I know staying on console don't really had a own pc rig they've built themselves.

They either got a home pc which they've upgraded with a more capable gpu or got a "gaming" pc without a good gpu or a SSD with enough space.

Most of the time those builds are quite unreliable because the companies really cheap out on parts like the psu, motherboard, cooling and more.

People like them associate pc gaming with that experience which is way different then starting from a own build pc with quality parts.

A good motherboard for an example can be a huge difference for the years to come.

Very cheap mobo's (especially in prebuilds) often have unreliable usb ports and I even had a case where the lan port stopped working.

He was lucky and was able to use a pci card to solve both of those problems with a lan/2x USB 3.0 card.

Consoles are still the easiest way to go (they're especially great for transportation and events) but if you want a long term investment (games and hardware) and you're interested in the best versions of the games (at least technically) pc's is the way to go.

Even simple games like Rocket League are just so much better on pc especially with the bigger input lag on PS4.

That's a good point PSUs can be very important to the overall stability and lifespan of a computer and prebuilts often come with the cheapest possible PSU to maximize their margins.
Cheap PSUs frequently can't reach their stated maximum power, terrible efficiency, run hot, and have can often damage other components when they go down.

Every single PC I've ever built is still running, that's going back to 1999 when I was a child 😵😵😵😵😵😵

This can be applied to anything in life. As I already stated, nothing about the PC is daunting, if you just take a moment to read about it. Who doesn't bother reading about something that interests them? If you're considering building a PC you read about it, its that simple. In this day and age there's a plethora of helpful resources.

Is it daunting if you don't bother reading about it? Yeah. So is everything else in life.

It's such a strange opinion from my perspective. If you can't be bothered to research even the modest amount of information required for a PC, how do you stumble through the rest of your life?

 

[Lister]

While I do think PC gaming is more involved when jumping in than say a console (though that's nto super straight forward either - what console? What exclusives do they offer? How much is the online fee? What are their specs? Can they do 1080p? 900p? 4K (lol)? 60 FPS? These are the questions even console gamers are starting to ask in this day and age. It's not 2005 anymore.

Anyway, even if PC gaming Is a bit more involved, it's not this insurmountable challenge. If my 7 year old cousin can come to me with a complete parts list, I mean, common. How lazy/stupid are you?

It's usually not about how "complex" it is. It's usually about just not being exposed to it, and either being ignorant, uninterested, or knee deep in the console ecosystem.

Some people just aren't into PC gaming, which is just fine, until they have the need to come into threads like this to justify their position. That's when the ignorance starts to show - when their arguments sound like they time traveled form 2002.

 

[Brockxz]

This thread is still proof that there are people with really false view on things.

Yes PC gaming is actually really easy but it still isn't foolproof easy as console gaming. I would like to say that most people who can't handle pc gaming are also those who have problem properly setting up console and tv. I have been to a lot of houses helping people setup console and tv setup. It just people who won't even bother opening manual and there are even people who read manuals and still can't setup.

Also most of the problems I have found on gaming PCs are their owner faults. Shady apps installed and breaking something, shady config changes by them or some apps they installed on purpose or even without them knowing it (software bundles etc). Most of the time they even don't know what those changes actually do. There is really minority when game or some apps doesn't work because it is hardware problem (too old game, some one in a million compatibility issue or something else). I exclude times when game is just broken on launch. That affects a lot of gamers and those few times are the main reason why still people go with console even sometimes consoles have the same problems too. Lately that happens even as often as it is on PCs.

By the way newer generation prefer mobile gaming because that is even easier than consoles.

 

[madjoki]

Because it's true, to an extent. Freedom comes at cost of complexity.

Doesn't help that most prebuilt "gaming" pcs are borderline scams and many are unwilling to lookup and/or learn things.

 

[MilkyJoe]

This can be applied to anything in life. As I already stated, nothing about the PC is daunting, if you just take a moment to read about it. Who doesn't bother reading about something that interests them? If you're considering building a PC you read about it, its that simple. In this day and age there's a plethora of helpful resources.

Is it daunting if you don't bother reading about it? Yeah. So is everything else in life.

And that's why Joe public takes the easy way out and buys a console, for a quarter of the price.

 

[bomblord1]

To this day I personally fiddle with settings to get games working and in some cases just to get them to launch. Are we going to pretend games like the recent Batman don't exist (yes that is on the publisher but the problem is stuff like it still happens)? At the very least adjusting settings to get the best balance of performance and visuals is still a thing.

Have downloaded games and seperate translation patches that require the system local to be switched to just launch. Something I'm used to now but required a lot of googling initially.

I have had issues trying to play games via big picture mode over steam link as they occasionally launch with part of the screen cut off (or don't take up the whole screen) when that happens it requires jumping back and forth between my PC and my TV to get the resolution and scaling of the game set correctly

Also have issues with using a PS4 controller in big picture mode for some reason Steam disables one of the sticks and the dpad by default and I have to manually go in and change it to a generic xinput controller to work (a process that took about 30 minutes of trial and error to work out).

These are just some examples. Not a single one is even close to a deal breaker to me and sometimes I even enjoy the challenge but I understand how it can frustrate and confuse the less technically inclined especially an average non-enthusiast gamer.

 

[w0s]

I don't mind the driver updates but the amount of times I have fought with a wireless controller is irritating. Especially the Xbox one wireless adapter.

 

[Pinkuss]

Nier is a good example as to why; I have a relatively mid range PC which should be able to run it easily with AMD's relatively new 480GPU; the game crashes after 20ish minutes and so far the only fix is to roll back to old drivers with AMD (who've now actually said they're working on it) and Square Enix saying nothing with the game being out around 2 months now.

Now I'm fairly techy and I've finally seen promise from the AMD side of things but if I had no idea how to Google/where to look the assumption would be I'd bought a dud for 30 quid.

 

[Abilidebob]

It doesn't help that it seems there are always threads complaining about poor PC ports that don't run well regardless of your settings and hardware.

Every time there's a similar thread I see this being said. For some absurd reason people use the existence of the "xxx performance thread"s as "proof" that all PC releases are fucked up or something. Like, I've seen this used an absurd amount of times.