You get what you pay for, is the point.
They do? I mostly see them correcting ignorant statements ITT.
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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?
- Thread starter Fess
- Start date
You get what you pay for, is the point.
If all you want play on pc is AAA multi-format games, the consoles are better choice for the vast majority of players. Consoles lack highly re-playable single player strategy games enhanced by mods and continuous improvements. these may be not everybody's cup of tea, but they are a life blood for certain pc gamers such as myself.
I also enjoy multi-format games as well, so PC is the format for me.
I also enjoy multi-format games as well, so PC is the format for me.
With the general public, desktops are definitely on the decline. Lots of people hardly want any sort of PC now either, even laptops are less popular than they used to be
And conversely, I think many people undersell how complicated things can get when you're on a pc. There's an entropy factor that you don't see as often on closed systems like consoles. Regardless of whether or not you think working with a PC is difficult, it is literally impossible to get the same level of simplicity from a PC that you get from a console unless you strip it down and basically turn it into one (ie Big Picture, steamos).
Abilidebob
Member
Did you follow the conversation before that post?
Also, you don't need a gaming PC to be into PC gaming. Crazy concept, I know.
uncleslappy
nethack is my favorite dark souls clone
This is the same reason I'm scared off of most open world games. Too much to do even though it's optional.
Jest Chillin
Member
I guess you can't even? The entire conversation of the thread discusses Gaming PCs. Hugely popular games like WoW and LoL are, in part, hugely popular precisely because people can play them on their $400 Walmart prebuilts with bottom tier gpus (and in some cases, integrated gpus).
Aside from that, the popularity of those games doesn't actually indicate ease of entry or the maintaining of PC gaming.
Lister
Banned
Yeah, as predicted, this thread has now been derailed by the usual suspects.
I'm out too.
Diminishing returns start to appear after a few hundred more, especially if you go for the mid-gen refresh consoles. There's also the case where games played on those "you get what you pay for" rigs have worse perfomance than consoles out of the box.
It might be worth the hassle, but PC gaming is far more of a hassle.
nekkid
It doesn't matter who we are, what matters is our plan.
Let's not pretend that knowing how to do this doesn't require research and an investment in time.
Some people just like the gaming, and for them building and upgrading a PC is too hard because they don't know how and do not wish to know how in order to enjoy their hobby.
Some people just like the gaming, and for them building and upgrading a PC is too hard because they don't know how and do not wish to know how in order to enjoy their hobby.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
First of all, stop what you're doing and read the chain of posts you were responding to to begin with.
Done?
Now. How come the most popular games on PC don't represent PC gaming?
How come the most played games in the world 'don't count' when judging user experience?
You explain to me how your situational-ass logic makes any sense at all.
DING DING DING
Aztechnology
Member
How have you missed the fact that what you just stated is representative of most "Gaming PC's". We're talking about gaming on a PC in general, not just gaming on a $2000+ machine which only represents a small fraction of the player-base.
http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
I think an impartial observer could note that consoles have peaked, are now chronically underpowered, and are trapped that way as they try to offer bonus subscription models to try and recoup the costs on heavily subsidized hardware. The question is why high-end PCs are stigmatized even in the presence of great resources for amateurs.
Jest Chillin
Member
Yes, I did actually read it. Including the original post where the poster said he can't convince his friends to switch to PC because they don't care about fidelity over convenient play.
His point was never about the popularity of PC as a whole. That's what Abilidebob chose to cherry pick out of his post to start the side tangent of popular games on PC.
Like I said, if I had the game on console I wouldn't care. But on PC I try to get everything as best as possible, specially on an old game that my PC should slice through. However what usually happens is that in order to play it properly and get the "PC EXPERIENCE" (that's why I paid so much for it) I need to waste a lot of fucking time tinkering everything, reading through forums, searching for fixes, etc etc etc. Not always, but most of the time.
Even on an avarage PC, you would need to waste time tinkering to get the experience to your liking, and if you are stuck with an awful port (like most), you not only have to tinker settings, you need to be editing .ini files or downloading external shit and what not to fix the game.
I'm done with that.
I put the disc in, and I play. And unless the console version is truly awful, I won't give a shit and just enjoy the game.
ScaryShark
Banned
Forget 'tinkering' one of the biggest obstacles for me getting back in to PC gaming after a decade+ are like some of the people that populate this thread and take it upon themselves to 'defend' and evangelize their platform as if they are 16th century Catholic missionaries. The fervor and tenacity of it is incredibly off-putting. I 'can't wait' to invest in a platform so I can interact and rub elbows with these people.
Nearly every PC general platform specific thread on here consists of a hypothetical question posed by the layman and how untrue it is and how "superior and easy PC gaming actually is!
Nearly every PC general platform specific thread on here consists of a hypothetical question posed by the layman and how untrue it is and how "superior and easy PC gaming actually is!
It's apples and oranges comparing dota/lol/csgo players to console gamers. People playing these games tend to focus only on them and rarely build enthusiast level rigs. They are just like the people who play mmos or buy fifa or cod on console and that's their only (or maybe one of few) game a year. People like that are unlikely to run into issues with tinkering on PC, because of the small volume of different games they play.
Like it or not, the question of this topic is not directed at people with enthusiast rigs. It's mostly directed at people who play multiplats on consoles rather than PCs, because too much tinkering is one of the arguments used to play multiplats on consoles. And AAA games are the ones where that matters (or where the enthusiast rigs even matter).
Like it or not, the question of this topic is not directed at people with enthusiast rigs. It's mostly directed at people who play multiplats on consoles rather than PCs, because too much tinkering is one of the arguments used to play multiplats on consoles. And AAA games are the ones where that matters (or where the enthusiast rigs even matter).
PC always has a higher cost of entry, but you make it back with much cheaper games and free online. A mid range rig like a rx 480 with an i5 will demolish a Pro and only cost a few hundred dollars more.
IMO this is an odd mentality, you'd rather play the console version which is even worse than the non optimal PC version just because you can't do anything about it?
You cannot be serious.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Try again, because that discussion went off onto a tangent earlier than you thought it did.
Danhese alluded to the idea that BF1's console numbers mean that PC isn't the most played platform.
A response detailed how League of Legends plays host to a playerbase that's literally one hundred times bigger at any given moment.
You interjected to mention that games like League of Legends don't count, for reasons that don't even pertain to the argument you were responding to at the time.
Touting LoL's numbers makes perfect sense as a response to someone touting BF1's numbers as evidence that consoles are the more popular online gaming platform. Ya get me now?
Abilidebob
Member
I guess I need to get some English lessons, because what I get from this post is that "no one plays on PC, and the younger generation also doesn't care about it, they care more about consoles" which is just patently false, especially when you get stats for games like Minecraft, LoL and the endless survival games.
I mean, sure, if all his/her friends played were games like BF1 I can see why they wouldn't want to play on a PC. But the way the post was structured you can see how some false statements surface.
Jest Chillin
Member
Already did. It appears that you're the one who didn't actually read the full posts.
What's the total Steam saturation? Cross reference it with LoL and WoW players. Then, once you've done that, find a way to empirically list which LoL and/or WoW players also have Steam. Got those numbers? Cool.
Now explain how any of that has to do with the thread about ease/difficulty of owning, maintaining, and troubleshooting a gaming PC vs a console.
Because if it doesn't have anything to do with that, then the entire diatribe about how popular specific PC games are is a side tangent that doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand and you're pushing this issue simply to argue about something.
Okami Haundo
Member
I don't consider PC gaming overall to be "difficult", but I know it just isn't for me. Playing on console means that I have to deal with the settings I'm given. Playing on PC means that I have the option to tweak things and potentially upgrade hardware to get better performance. I'm the type of person who would spend way too much time tweaking things even if I don't "need" to.
I'd also be too tempted to multitask and look at Twitter/Gaf while playing and that would make my wife want to kill me. It's best for me to stick with console.
I'd also be too tempted to multitask and look at Twitter/Gaf while playing and that would make my wife want to kill me. It's best for me to stick with console.
JimboJones
Member
It's weird seeing this argument and then seeing people buying terabyte size SSD's for PS4's and getting very little improvement and being happy with it.
Leafhopper
Banned
Don't bother explaining this to people it's lost on them.
This is a valid point that's sort of improving some ways ever since Windows 10.
I've personally figured out how to abstract the individual game client layers. One way is to simply launch games from the start menu, after which you might see a Steam or UPlay window pop up for a second. It's gotten to a point where Steam to me really feels less like a store or client and more like a back-end that manages all my games in the background while I rarely see it. And I have to admit this is one advantage of UWP games -- they're just strapped straight into the OS. This is also why I actually like playing GOG games without GOG Galaxy or DRM-free games from Humble. The experience of simply loading up a game from the Start menu with no other client or anything in the way has kind of been forgotten. That's how I played all of Witcher 3 and it was a weird experience -- this brand new game with state-of-the-art graphics that I'm booting up the same way I booted up PC games in the 90's.
I also however like the Xbox app as a game launcher. It's good for launching anything whether it be Steam, Origin, UPlay, or UWP, and it's tapped into the Xbox Live infrastructure (and thus some of my console friends).
One thing I'd like to add though is that Microsoft still hasn't really let people navigate Windows with the Xbox controller. I'm not asking to be able to navigate the whole OS, but at least give me a start menu or something I can navigate with the Xbox pad. The Xbox app isn't even that usable with the Xbox pad. Basically I just need a UWP/Xbox big picture mode or something.
This is a weird way to say but it's technically correct. People so often look at PC gaming through the lens of running AAA games at the highest setting but over the years the real appeal for me has been all the smaller stuff that isn't on consoles. A lot of those, yes, are strategy and simulation games that have more replayability than most console games, largely due to user-generated content.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
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TANGENT BEGIN
There's your context, quit the clowning. Dude wasn't touting LoL's numbers to make a point about PC's ease of use. He was responding to a specific and equally irrelevant quip about BF's numbers. Sorry you haven't understood that yet.
Perhaps the people that don't want to spend big bucks on a PC aren't the same people that are buying terabyte SSDs for consoles.
RichiRamjag
Member
Doesn't seem like pro really set the console scene on fire that would imply a large demand tbh.
GoG galaxy is great in that way because it acts more like a library/installer, than a Steam/Origin/Blizzard type of client. Once it installs the gane, you don't have to launch it again.
Jest Chillin
Member
Below is the full original post that Abilidebide cherry picked quotes out of to start with the LoL tangent that I replied to.
Abilidebob, whether or not you need lessons in English comprehension is not for me to say. What I can say, however, is that you picked out a couple of out-of-context quotes and interpreted them the way you wanted to, rather than the way they were clearly intended to be taken. Then you argued against your perceived interpretation instead of his actual post.
Leafhopper
Banned
That's true still though when the new box comes out people have to buy it if they want to keep playing new games. With actual new consoles that is obviously.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
I don't think it was ever meant to, really. PS4 Pro will eventually be seen as the defacto PS4 rather than the 'premium', and for now it gives players who value increased performance and fidelity an excellent and simple alternative to building their own PC.
Jest Chillin
Member
It started with The Futurists posts, not Lister's.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Whatever.
So, I have a midrange PC, that I bought mostly to play indie titles that were unlikely to make it to consoles. I have put together a PC in the past (many years ago), so I can tinker if I want to. My 2c are:
PCs are still a bit of a hassle compared to consoles. Even with the advent of steam, you still have to tweak things a bit sometimes. Not a big deal, but it is there and I could see it being a considerable turnoff to anyone else in my family; most of which are intelligent, game-playing people.
I also discovered about myself that I really don't enjoy gaming on a monitor. Since my PC is used for other things not gaming related, it sits in a corner of the room. I have a steam link, which is nice, but it is still more hassle than my consoles. Also, I found I do not care much about graphic fidelity; probably cared more in the past.
PCs are still a bit of a hassle compared to consoles. Even with the advent of steam, you still have to tweak things a bit sometimes. Not a big deal, but it is there and I could see it being a considerable turnoff to anyone else in my family; most of which are intelligent, game-playing people.
I also discovered about myself that I really don't enjoy gaming on a monitor. Since my PC is used for other things not gaming related, it sits in a corner of the room. I have a steam link, which is nice, but it is still more hassle than my consoles. Also, I found I do not care much about graphic fidelity; probably cared more in the past.
Tripolygon
Banned
Follows the thread, nobody gives a shit about how many player league of legends has. The conversational thread was about someone who wanted to play battlefield one but nobody he knows plays on PC.
Now point me to where i insinuate that? If you can't, kindly don't makeup shit I never said nor implied. I game on PC and Consoles, i simply pointed out how
Cool, but read up.
wtf.gif.
Tripolygon
Banned
Apparently, you didn't since the chain of post was talking about Battlefield 1.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
Okay, I gotcha. My bad. I owe you an apology
And I owe Jest an apology too
although in a discussion about bubbles, y'all would do well to consider that the experience that The Futurist has had with Battlefield is the same experience I'd have if I wished to play League of Legends with my console-owning buddies, and therefore I'm not sure how it relates to the overarching conversation being had in this thread to begin with.
Nor am I sure how the fact that games like LoL, which have massive userbases across all types of hardware, can't lend themselves to any 'ease of use' argument. It's ostensibly so simple to game on PC sometimes that you don't even need to buy new hardware. Old multipurpose PC becomes gaming PC when you play games on it. That the game you play maybe was designed to run well on old multipurpose PC doesn't take away from that at all.
Aztechnology
Member
My argument there was basically, if you have a home PC already, then you already know how hard it is, because most modern systems are capable of playing some games at least. A "gaming" PC just has parts with a little more power, it doesn't suddenly make it harder to use.
Jest Chillin
Member
Of course. Any anecdotal experiences are, of course, anecdotal and as such should be taken with a grain of salt. It's a little harder to do that in this thread given the OP itself is pure Anecdote. But that's why I replied to the LoL numbers in the first place. Because it's not relevant to the overall topic. The Futurists post at least relates his personal experience as his friends not wanting to "deal with" their perception of PC Gaming's complexities.
More powerful parts, more maintenence, and more drivers makes it more complex. There are more chances of conflicts and more difficulty in figuring out exactly what the issue is. This effects perception because people are intimidated by all the information.
I've not seen this on GAF for....well, ever, at least not widespread. It is, ironically, PCGAF saying PC gaming isn't as cumbersome as it's made out to be, in response to people making hyperbolic claims about the difficulty of said platform.
It's difficult because most people just want to get home, plop on the comfy couch and GAME they don't want to hunch over their keyboard and tweak settings for 40 minutes, and then it's time for dinner and then you come back you gotta tweak settings for another 40 minutes, then it's time for bed. so you spent your free time tweaking settings instead of actually playing the GAME.
I mean if you like to tweak settings then by all means go for it but most people want to just GAME.. and don't even get me started on the perception of "PC GRAPHICS" being great when there is no game on PC that looks as good as Uncharted 4.
I mean if you like to tweak settings then by all means go for it but most people want to just GAME.. and don't even get me started on the perception of "PC GRAPHICS" being great when there is no game on PC that looks as good as Uncharted 4.
Tripolygon
Banned
We're good but LoL is not on consoles so you couldn't play with your console buddies even if you tried. But I'm sure if Riot ever considered releasing on consoles with cross-platform play support, it would be just as popular
Grim Patron
Member
Wew we digital foundry comments section now.
Leafhopper
Banned
There is the Ozzy post I was waiting for, lmao.
Aztechnology
Member
Huge Succeeded
Banned
So good I'd have assumed that Horse Armour posted it
paragonpro
Banned
I actually just put mine togeather on parts picker. The thing that drove up the cost the most though was that 1080 ti, it may seem excessive but this is my first pc and i want to get a lot of longevity out of it, so i wont settle on that