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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?

wildfire said:
Digital Foundry threads are tamer. I don't go into a Foundry thread and as quickly find antagonizing posts as I would find in most other hardware related threads.
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This is a recent change in tone that stems from people being constantly called out for their behavior in years past in DF threads. You don't even have to go back that far to see what I'm talking about - GTA V's grass discrepancies come to mind - a slight difference between two versions of the same game that got played up more than differences between console and PC versions tend to. That sort of thing was even more common back when people readily dismissed the PC as a platform entirely, which was sadly the prevailing sentiment surrounding PC gaming on GAF until like a year into this generation.
 
Fredrik said:
Pretty much every time there is a console vs PC gaming discussion going on there are a bunch if people saying that PC gaming require too much work compared to consoles.

I used to be a console-only gamer, enough to even get me banned by trying to shut up PC gamers in my console threads.

Then I bought a PC 4 years ago. Windows 7, i7 CPU, 16GB RAM, 780ti. Windows preinstalled.

During these past 4 years I haven't "fiddled" with any driver or patches, I've just bought the games on Steam and everything has just worked with zero tinkering. The fiddling is taken care of by Steam without me knowing about it. Quite amazing really. Steam sometimes says that it has been automatically updated and restarts with one mouse click and a 10 second start up time, that's pretty much how far my tinkering has gone. If I want to use a controller I just plug it in and it instantly works and the UI in the games swap to indicate buttons instead of keys. Quite amazing really.

Honestly, PC gaming could be sold with Apple's "It just works." slogan from my point of view.

I swapped out my 780ti to a 980ti 2 years ago though, but even that was surprisingly easy: power down the computer, loosen the cables and screws, pull out the old card, plug in the new card, reconnect the cables and tighten the screws, power up the computer. Done.

Those who complain about how difficult PC gaming is simply cannot have used a modern PC with Steam.

You definitely _can_ fiddle with a bunch of stuff if you want to. But you don't have to if you don't want to, that's the thing. I'm one of those that don't want any hassle, I just want to play games, and that's exactly what my PC has let me to do.

So where does that complexity talk come from? From my point if view it's just as easy to game on PC as consoles.
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I like PC gaming, but consoles does feel easier. One PC CAN do so much more, more than gaming, so on PC I can write, visit websites, do work, just the options of having so much more to do take away the focus on gaming.

I personally was running Overwatch, and could not get the game to display the correct/best resolution for me. To this day I don't why it wouldn't.

You nonchalantly mentioned you swapped out a video card... And I agree its easy, however what is something so easy for you to do, is a pain in the butt and the unknown universe for some of us.

Also when my PS4 broke, it was easy to deal with one manufacture (Sony) i called and they sent me a new one. For my video card it might be as easy as a call, but then I have to open up my system, or if it's memory ya got to know more for a computer that all there is to it. Computers are more complex because there are more options.

Also I like the idea of the PS4 being more of a closed system, less issue of bad-mods.
Also like the idea of PS4 more closed because less cheating, (Alough I'm sure there is plenty of cheating on both sides). But while a computer has more access to run cheats, the PS4 has less. I actually prefer Diablo on PS4 because of this reason.

Now don't get me wrong i like gaming on both, but just find it easier more relaxing on my PS4.

In the end one really isn't better than the other IMHO. Its just personal preference of what a person finds value in, and let them game in the manor it makes them happy.

There are great reasons to love both.
 
dock said:
earlier on this thread I had someone reply that my Alienware Alpha R2 was 'my first mistake'. I asked him to clarify, but he didn't reply.

Does anyone else know what he was referring to, or was it someone demonstrating many of the obnoxious qualities that the worst PC gamers are known to have? The 'your rig isn't hardcore enough' crowd?
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The alienware alpha uses a low level cpu so it's not as powerful as a desktop cpu. That may cause performance issues with open world games, such as the witcher 3 and gta v. I don't have an alpha myself but I think you have to setup workarounds to play non-steam games.
 
Chingachgook said:
Also I like the idea of the PS4 being more of a closed system, less issue of bad-mods.
Also like the idea of PS4 more closed because less cheating, (Alough I'm sure there is plenty of cheating on both sides). But while a computer has more access to run cheats, the PS4 has less. I actually prefer Diablo on PS4 because of this reason.
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Anyone else laughing at this.

PS4 and X1 allow more cheating in Diablo cause you alter files you cannot on the PC version. If this was Diablo 2 you might have a point but not diablo 3.

Not to say diablo pc doesn't have cheats but the cheating environment is worse on console cause it's not server side based and allows for offline play.
 
Tecnniqe said:
I used to do that but last 4 years I've only done clean installs of older versions due to drivers coming out broken.

No need to do a clean install anymore at all imo. Not that it hurts to do it. Just check the little [ ]
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Yeah, you're probably not wrong either, but I err on the side of safety in any event. As a relatively recent PC gamer, I've learned that it's better to accumulate the kind of knowledge and habits that allow you to pre-empt issues because that's easier than reacting to them as they happen.
 
Chingachgook said:
Also I like the idea of the PS4 being more of a closed system, less issue of bad-mods.
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The rest of your post is perfectly understandable and valid, which is why I cut it out. you won't get any disputes from me there.

but this bit has me confused. On PS4 you don't get any mods at all outside of, what, two or three games? And those mods can break just like they do on PC.
 
Huge Succeeded said:
Yeah, you're probably not wrong either, but I err on the side of safety in any event. As a relatively recent PC gamer, I've learned that it's better to accumulate the kind of knowledge and habits that allow you to pre-empt issues because that's easier than reacting to them as they happen.
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Which is why I usually never update my drivers unless they are confirmed to work fine after a few days or if a game have issues or gain noticeable performance by them.

Saves a lot of headache considering Nvidia fuckery the last year 😉
 
NOLA_Gaffer said:
I was really hoping that the SteamOS/Steam Machines initiative would take a lot of complexity out of PC Gaming but that seems to have all but stalled unfortunately.
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The only complexity they'd take away is the building process. If a game gives you trouble it's not going to matter if you're using a Steam machine. You'll still have to look into the solution.
 
Huge Succeeded said:
I see that you never even lurked GAF before PC gaming came to be seen as something more than just 'that other niche thing' around here. Well, either that, or you're just ignorant. Or I'm ignorant and I fell for a joke post, but hey, you delivered that straight as fuck so I'll absolve myself in that event, lol.GAF has a long and easily accessed history of fuckery surrounding Digital Foundry threads.
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I'm pretty sure the words in caps shows they are being sarcastic. You're right though, every platform has people who get too...emotionally invested into their platform of choice and that was my earlier point.
 
dock said:
earlier on this thread I had someone reply that my Alienware Alpha R2 was 'my first mistake'. I asked him to clarify, but he didn't reply.

Does anyone else know what he was referring to, or was it someone demonstrating many of the obnoxious qualities that the worst PC gamers are known to have? The 'your rig isn't hardcore enough' crowd?
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I thnk you're trying to paint too many PC gamers with a brush that you dipped into one person's post. Where are similar sentiments echoed elsewhere in this thread?

beyond that, I really do understand where you're coming from, I just wish some of you wouldn't generalize so hard with the 'elitist pc gamer' stuff, because it always seems to be sourced from a small handful of posts in a thread and then used to disparage the entire community.

Shitty PC gamers do exist in my world, though. I can admit to that. I don't think Huxley intended for that response to come off like it did, but I won't speak for him or just dismiss your grievance like that.
 
pinballsummer said:
No offense, but your videos are a bit pointless. I'm glad to hear you had zero problems - I'll admit, I'm surprised - considering everyone I know had to perform the same series of workarounds, modifications to settings / game files to get them all to work (especially GTA IV).

It doesn't prove these issues don't exist. It just shows you are one of the lucky ones (for unknown reasons). Cool - but.. a waste of your time.
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I wouldnt say its a waste of time, since I get to prove that it is still possible to run them without issues unlike the belief that you keep pushing, and back up my claim.

there's also the possibility that you and your friends are the problems, not the pc.
 
Ozium said:
It's difficult because most people just want to get home, plop on the comfy couch and GAME they don't want to hunch over their keyboard and tweak settings for 40 minutes, and then it's time for dinner and then you come back you gotta tweak settings for another 40 minutes, then it's time for bed. so you spent your free time tweaking settings instead of actually playing the GAME.

I mean if you like to tweak settings then by all means go for it but most people want to just GAME.. and don't even get me started on the perception of "PC GRAPHICS" being great when there is no game on PC that looks as good as Uncharted 4.
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Wtf, who sits 40 minutes and tweaks settings? It takes me a minute to find the optimal settings
 
I mean I get why even if I don't necessarily agree.

I'll generally get every third party game I can on my PC (which is why that matters very little to me when I choose a console) because ... infinite backwards compatibility. That point can't really be understated. I also have a sweet two monitor set up and a comfy chair, so if I'm grinding in a game, I can catch up on some TV or YouTube on the other monitor, or video podcasts. Switch has changed this up even that now I can do three things (no matter how excessive that sounds.) Also I can plug it into my 65 inch TV whenever I want as well (just prefer not to most of the time.) I built my PC in 2013 and it still outperforms the most powerful consoles on the market and plus it runs everything I ever bought for it. Still rocking a 780 too. I 'might' upgrade next year, but might even still give it a bit as I can still run pretty much every new game on High. Really to me, I love everything about it, but totally 1000% understand why it's not for everybody.
 
To answer the OT: Cause it is.

It was funny reading this thread when my PC just alerted me my Nvidia drivers were out of date.

Some of us enjoy tinkering. That's ok. But we shouldn't pretend it's as easy as console gaming.
 
What has this thread become? Are people saying PC gaming is not too much work for anybody? I'd say that's objectively wrong. Most reasonably intelligent people can figure shit out nowadats, but not everyone has the patience or interest to do so. Console gaming is just simpler for the average person, and I don't get how this could even be debatable.

Is it too much work for a hardcore gamer that already buys multiple consoles and spends thousands of dollars on gaming per year? Probably not. But you'll still have hardware failures, driver issues, compatibility issues, etc. These things haven't gone away, they're just not as bad as they were before.
 
texhnolyze said:
Do people really still build their PC on their own these days?

I can go to the market right now, choose my favorite store, pick my desired parts, and let the store clerck build the PC for me.

I don't even have to touch the PC until I plug the cables and push the power button at home. Guess what, like a console.
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This is what I did for my last build, cost me $50 and 0 stress (I'm a little, say, heavy handed sometimes when I get frustrated).

Best decision ever and their work was insured in case of any breakage - going to do it with every build here on out, so worth it!

Regardless, OP sounds like you've had a dream run with 0 issues that whole time: I run an i7/980 combo for the last few years, there's been the odd problem patch for sure.
 
balohna said:
What has this thread become? Are people saying PC gaming is not too much work for anybody? I'd say that's objectively wrong. Most reasonably intelligent people can figure shit out nowadats, but not everyone has the patience or interest to do so. Console gaming is just simpler for the average person, and I don't get how this could even be debatable.

Is it too much work for a hardcore gamer that already buys multiple consoles and spends thousands of dollars on gaming per year? Probably not. But you'll still have hardware failures, driver issues, compatibility issues, etc. These things haven't gone away, they're just not as bad as they were before.
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Pretty much, funny how people try to debate things like this. People, of course it's a lot harder than consoles. It's not even close... A lot of thing s can go awfully wrong with pcs.

Are they fun, absolutely, but it's not easy mode like consoles. A lot more to it than just plugging it in...


Fun Example: my dog managed to switch off the surge protector... When I started my pc it kept going into the Bios. Eventually had to disconnect all his (would not even ewe the one with main partition). Just kept connected the one with the OS. Once it rebooted and recognized the main partition I was able to reconnect all my other drives. Lost at least an hour fixing it.

Still love my pc, but there is a lot to it!
 
For sure PCs are easier to deal with than they were in the 90s but... it's all relative, and consoles ARE just easier. To me, you might as well be saying I don't understand why people order delivery when frozen pizzas and better than ever. A lot of gamers just want to plug something in and play a game, they don't want to have to take on a whole new pastime, "maintaining your PC".
 
Xbox should quit and start with a pcbox instead. It's what most people desire from Microsoft to focus on core gamers instead of mainstream. Ps4 has already that market,I don't think Scorpio will solve that.
 
I agree with the OP, although I think the OS has a lot to do with it, at least for me. I've stigmatized Windows for a long time and use Linux for work and macos for home usage. I simply don't like Windows so turning my ps4 on to play games feels good, that's about it. I also have to say that this is probably my last console and next time will buy a laptop to play games on Windows and double boot with Linux for work.
 
Yes PCs require more patience when something does go wrong, but it's well worth the minor inconvenience if you value the quality of your gaming experience.
 
Peterc said:
Xbox should quit and start with a pcbox instead. It's what most people desire from Microsoft to focus on core gamers instead of mainstream. Ps4 has already that market,I don't think Scorpio will solve that.
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I don't even know if people are joking around or have lost their mind in this thread.
 
terencecah said:
people are scared of what they don't know
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This.

I just built a new PC this past weekend for the first time since my last one in 2010. My entertainment center in my living room was harder to put together.

The only thing is if something goes wrong, troubleshooting can be a pain, but that's what the thousands of online resources are for.
 
This thread is just a lot of people shooting down other people for not having the same experiences that they did (hey, I'm guilty also) on PC. Let's just concede that the range of PC builds / software vary drastically, so most of us have will always have wildly varying experiences (unlike consoles). There is just no definitive answer to the question in the OP.

As far as spending a decent chunk of time to tweak in-game settings - for me, it just goes with the territory. The biggest draw to PC gaming from console gaming was improved IQ and performance, so of course I want to get the best visuals / FPS possible. With new AAA games, in particular, this can be a balancing act with a lot of trial & error to get things right and all games are different. Depending on what resolution you play (I have a 4K TV, so I usually try for 1440p when possible), even the latest top of line graphics cards will require some compromise to get the performance you want. 40 minutes is extreme, but when all is said and done - I probably spend at least 10-15 minutes getting the settings right on a new game with additional small tweaks throughout the first hour of play. Is that weird?

And before you say 'use GeForce' - I've tried... several times. It always either cranks everything beyond what my card can handle (Watch Dogs 2 / Ghost Recon) or undershoots the settings by a massive margin (GTA V, Witcher 3). Glad it works for others though..
 
Peterc said:
Xbox should quit and start with a pcbox instead. It's what most people desire from Microsoft to focus on core gamers instead of mainstream. Ps4 has already that market,I don't think Scorpio will solve that.
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Who are core gamers exactly? What makes a "pcbox" different than an Xbox?
 
noire said:
Let's ask my copy of Dishonored 2... as soon as it stops crashing at launch.

by and large, PC gaming has gotten much better over the years, but there are still problems and more layers to maintain and update.
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Or that copy of Rise of the Tomb Raider that keeps crashing on my Pro.

PC takes more work because it does more. It's not a detriment, it's a tool for a person that prefers control over simplicity.
 
If I want to play on my tv, it's more complicated than the console experience.

Boot to OS, install steam, is game controller compatible? If so, Xbox and dual shock or just Xbox. No controller support..do I try steam controller? Or mouse and keyboard? Sitting on couch with keyboard and mouse use sucks. Hooked up via hdmi, but why are parts of screen off the display area? How do I fix this? Let me google this problem... Do I need to adjust overscan settings? What are they? What do they do? Where are these settings? Etc.

Edit: Do I need to buy a wireless adapter to use my controller? Let me google to see what I need.

I play on all consoles and pc. Pc is more complicated.
 
Out of my inner circle of friends, I'm the only one that games on PC. There IS hassle to it, there is setting up, there is a bit of optimizing. They have no interest in it, and game only on console, on of them is actually a pretty good gamer (he's the one that does all the aerial shots in Rocket League for us).

I even built one of them a cheap gaming system with my old 650Ti boost, and he doesn't use it at all. We had some issues getting MS to accept the Windows Key and that was it. That PC I built for him sits on a desk plugged into my old 1080 monitor I gave to him almost unused.

It's definitely NOT hassle free though, hence the reason I have 2 different performance monitors and RTSS running in the background most of the time.
 
Try telling someone who never ever updates their computers that it's hassle free

Some people actively don't learn how to handle tech, I think the sentiment will go away over time tbh
 
In all the games I've played only a handful haven't worked correctly at startup. A Google search in all those cases let me fix the issue very quickly. All of those were indie games that had strange but minor issues.

If you just want to play games there really isn't anything hard about this. Just open Steam and click play. Kind of like a console.
 
Animagne said:
GoG galaxy is great in that way because it acts more like a library/installer, than a Steam/Origin/Blizzard type of client. Once it installs the gane, you don't have to launch it again.
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Really? I tried it once and it automatically altered my shortcuts so that they always launched in Galaxy. Actually, come to think of it DRM-free Steam games also operate like you describe. Once you install them through Steam you can just boot them up on their own. I think even Witcher 3 on Steam does this.

Does Galaxy have a backup utility yet (does any PC client other than Steam have one)? I like downloading GOG games through the browser because it provides me with a simple setup executable I can move and back up wherever I want.
 
I think us PC gamers bring it on ourselves. We make big deal out of minor things, and we like to tinker. New PC gamers get curious of tinkering and then don't understand it, so they become the squeaky wheel. I prefer console gaming for ease and comfort, but PC gaming for library building because it will always be there.

Steam big picture is a headache, steam controller blows donkey balls. PC gamers get more errors and crashes, voice chat is nowhere near intuitive on PC. Hardware is complicated, drivers are complicated sometimes.

I've been building gaming pcs for over 10 years and as much as I love it, I don't blame console gamers or the average gamer for staying far away as possible.

Pc gaming requires mantinence and tweaking... It's the same reason people buy iPhones or Apple products over Android and windows... It's easy for them to understand and requires no tweaking
 
I recently jumped into PC gaming about six months ago. There's quite a few turn offs which kept me away for so long. It's kinda like trying to get people to ride motorcycles instead of driving cars. There's tons of pros and cons but if people are dissuaded by the cons, they'll never care to enjoy the pros.

I eventually made a potato rig with an old Dell 790, 8gb RAM and a 1050ti, it all came out to like $260. Not bad, and this beaut does everything I need at 1080p. But I was scared as hell taking the plunge for the first time.

To address OP's question about people being concerned about "tinkering" required, that is a very real concern. There's a big difference between buying a Sony/Xbox/Nintendo console and having to build one and knowing what the components do.

Here are two of the baffling issues I encountered in my incredibly modest gaming "build" (if you could call it that, it was more of a plain upgrade). I'll leave the solutions as spoilers, just so you can try to guess to yourself before revealing what the problem/solution actually was.

ISSUE #1: When I put it all together, it wouldn't turn on the first time. It would try to run but it would only blink to life for a second and then zap out completely.

SOLUTION:
Thank god I was running a factory built PC instead of a custom. Good ol' DELL thought of putting little diagnostic lights on the front. I looked up the codes and it told me my brand new RAM was bad. I started experimenting by removing one stick at a time and discovered that one of the four sticks was just plain bad. No matter which socket it was in it caused the whole computer to crash on startup. I filed an ebay claim after the seller didn't return my messages and after a long process he finally sent me a replacement stick. Until then I was running on 6gb.


ISSUE #2: Every YouTube video has screen tearing. It's very noticeable and always in the same spot, incredibly annoying. I initially blame the graphics card and try the vsync options to no avail, this goes on for days.

SOLUTION:
Aero Theme. Yes. Aero Theme. A personalization option that does nothing more than change the color of your menu bar was the culprit. For whatever reason it causes screen tearing in video players. Put it in Basic mode and now everything is fine. Try to explain that one.


So you see? Yes. PC presents its own problems that console owners never have to deal with and they would probably just return the damn box if it ever came up. I love PC gaming and now that I've settled in I'm positive that this is the last generation of consoles I'll ever own. But you have to understand it's not for everyone.
 
Huge Succeeded said:
The rest of your post is perfectly understandable and valid, which is why I cut it out. you won't get any disputes from me there.

but this bit has me confused. On PS4 you don't get any mods at all outside of, what, two or three games? And those mods can break just like they do on PC.
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Skyrim and Fallout have mods but they've been vetted as far as I know(?), so less chance of it being a bad mod. But yes you are correct its just a few games, if your into mods then PC all the way! :)
 
Y'know what's weird about my couch PC gaming experience? I've come to play some PC games on the "couch" and some at the "desk.

I have two systems: A work laptop with a 960m and a custom-built machine with a 1070 I have hooked up to a TV. I sort of have my games split between them.

It's not even determined by control input. I play plenty of my MKB games on the "big" computer and I have games I play with a controller on the laptop. I think what really determines it is just production value or graphics or something. Modern AAA games that are made to be played in HD on a big screen I play on the big screen, like action games and so-on. But anything made for the "desk experience" like a strategy game or something that wants me to lean closer to the screen, I play on my laptop on a desk or in my lap. It's weird. Indie games or older games that are meant to be played at lower resolutions I play on my laptop, even if they're designed for a controller.

tenderbrew said:
I mean I get why even if I don't necessarily agree.

I'll generally get every third party game I can on my PC (which is why that matters very little to me when I choose a console) because ... infinite backwards compatibility. That point can't really be understated. I also have a sweet two monitor set up and a comfy chair, so if I'm grinding in a game, I can catch up on some TV or YouTube on the other monitor, or video podcasts. Switch has changed this up even that now I can do three things (no matter how excessive that sounds.) Also I can plug it into my 65 inch TV whenever I want as well (just prefer not to most of the time.) I built my PC in 2013 and it still outperforms the most powerful consoles on the market and plus it runs everything I ever bought for it. Still rocking a 780 too. I 'might' upgrade next year, but might even still give it a bit as I can still run pretty much every new game on High. Really to me, I love everything about it, but totally 1000% understand why it's not for everybody.
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This is likely my biggest reason for going PC for all my multiplatform games. That and indie games being DRM-free. I just feel a greater sense of ownership over my games on PC.

Despite many games being tied to Steam or whatever, I know I'll be able to keep playing them on the next computer I buy. That, and PC game stores can have 30 years worth of games in their catalogs. Consoles resell old games too but are much slower about it. Sony's situation of having to rebuy PS2 games digitally on PS4 even if you bought them on PS3 would happen much more rarely on PC. Xbox's backwards compatibility initiative has been by far the best at handling this and making Xbox Live's game selection feel like a truly contiguous library across hardware generation.

If I didn't care so much about that I'd probably be fine with what PS4 currently offers (outside the games I play that aren't available on consoles).
 
it's one of those misconceptions that never went away

there used to be more truth to it though.

remember port forwarding? not having games auto-update? not being able to troubleshoot problems via the internet?
 
Because it's still more difficult than consoles.

The gap has shrunk, as PCs and games have become less arcane and also as consoles have become more PC-like (IMO often to their detriment) but consoles are still far simpler in comparison, even if the experience is much nicer than it was in the 90s when I got serious about games.

If you're tech literate you tend to ignore how much of a learning curve is involved with this stuff, especially when even people of a younger age are not computer literate in a way we'd consider actually deserving of the term. And upgrading hardware by cracking open a case is still a big hurdle for many people.
 
Fredrik said:
Honestly, PC gaming could be sold with Apple's "It just works." slogan from my point of view
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This is a joke right? Come on you can't be serious. I spent a few days trying to figure out why I was getting random frame drops on my laptop while playing Overwatch. PC gaming is the opposite of that motto.
 
The only way to determine that "there be dragons here" is incorrect is to dare to make the trip yourself.

PC gaming can be more complicated but it is also more rewarding.
 
It kinda STILL is a pain in the ass sometimes.

I mean, I was trying to get back into PC gaming (Mac, actually, but whatever), but I was simply unable to get my Dualshock 4 controller working properly in game with my Steam copy of Mark of the Ninja. I mean, it was supposed to be just a matter of plugging the controller in, opening Steam and playing the fucking game, but it just doesn't work. I spent more than a couple of hours tinkering with the driver, Steam configs, in game options and internet forums, and no dice, controls are completely fucked up (like, button presses are registered as completely different and nonsensical buttons, and changing the button layout on Steam doesn't fix it, and is also a huge pain that ruins the config for other games).

Meanwhile, I just press a button on the controller and play a game in a matter of seconds on the PS4. Worst case scenario, I gotta wait for patches to download.
 
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