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Why is PC gaming still considered difficult with too much tinkering?
- Thread starter Fess
- Start date
Shit goes wrong all of the fucking time in PC gaming. You basically become an IT expert after a few months.
I've been PC primarily since 2011.
Shit can go bad on a console, but it's usually a universal problem demanding dev response rather than something you need to scour google to fix.
I've been PC primarily since 2011.
Shit can go bad on a console, but it's usually a universal problem demanding dev response rather than something you need to scour google to fix.
Fess
Member
It's not prebuilt as in some big name PC you buy at some electronics store. It's prebuilt after my preferences at a custom PC shop where they build it from separate parts they know from experience work great together.
They did some marathon stress tests on it after it was built so I'm guessing that's why it has worked so well. But I don't know anything about this stuff so it's just a guess.
Leafhopper
Banned
Never had that Sonic problem.
No, it's very simple if you watch how to build guides. It's a very simple, yet lengthy process.
Cooler Master TX3
You're not knowledgeable with PCs are you? If a game has an issue with a graphics card it's not because it's pre-built, it's because of the graphics card. The fact that you think this is a prebuilt only issues is a huge red flag with your knowledge onPC gaming.
You only need to do this if you have have low end hardware. As long as you have a decent processor and an above lower mid-range graphics card you'll be fine.
Red Dolphin
Member
I was about to post something similar. I also work in IT and I originally started gaming as a PC gamer but have gradually moved over to playing console games 100% now. I just can't be bothered dealing with a PC when I get home. I associate it too much with work. I also don't want to be sitting at a desk again and prefer to kick back on a comfortable couch. Yes I know you can run an HDMI cable to the TV but it's just not practical for me when my PC is in the study.
These threads always seem pointless, no one will be convinced one way or the other. From my point of view, PCs have certainly become simpler over the years. Their advantages are in their flexibility and options but this also comes with complexity and more things that can break.
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
It's not difficult it's just for the benefit id rather do something else with my time 
I received a lot of useful advice about PC gaming on that thread, but nothing that said there was anything about the Alienware Alpha R2.
- Some PC gamers will blame small prebuilt PCs like the R2 for entirely unrelated tech problems.
- The 'it works fine for me' crowd often forget to tell you they googled tech problems on a number of sites and performed arcane tricks like verifying whether steam downloaded it properly. I think fervent fans of the platform take these methods for granted.
- Gamepad support is still a luxury in PC gaming and is still not always an option.
Omegashin
Neo Member
this
I think the PC gaming community is mostly awesome and we all benefit by taking people to task if they glibly dismiss someone's experience. I think Huxley absolutely intended to suggest that I don't deserve to have working PC games unless I have the right type of box.
I would face this attitude often when I had tech problems playing PC games on laptops, so I simply stopped buying PC games. I was hoping opting into a more 'average' gaming setup would shield me from this.
It is thankfully very few people that are rude and defensive about PC gaming here. I understand why people feel defensive, but this thread proves that we can handle this topic better.
This so much. I work in game development so I'm at a PC all day, it's genuine relief to get away from Windows and a mouse.
My R2 under my TV helps but there's always the threat of PC games simply not working and my gaming hour becoming a stressful google session.
Here's my reasoning why console is easier for the average person...
Say someone has the idea to walk into a Bestbuy and try out PC gaming instead of buying a console. First problem, they won't understand any of the specs. We are not the majority, most people buying PC's have no idea what's inside. Sure they could ask a friend or a sales person but you're now making it more complicated than a console and adding extra time, thought,confusion, effort, fears of making the wrong choice, etc. Oh and they'll probably also recommend at least $800 for something decent.
They keep looking around and see a Cool gaming PC and it's less than $500! I'll take this home and play some Fallout 4, Batman Arkham Knight, or some new release.
Let's take a look inside, it has a Radeon R7 240, This card is barely better than a built-in Intel 4600. It plays games on the lowest setting possible(720p), if it can play them at all. They'll need a monitor, at least they don't have to worry about getting a good monitor since it really won't do much above 720p. Oh they also need a controller, let's add another $30 at least. Six months after purchase, the anti virus software trial ran out and they start spamming to renew... oh I guess I have to buy that, I don't want any virus'.
And after they've taken it home, they have the potential to run into some of the potential problems we've seen in this thread while trying to play
Or they just walk in, buy a PS3/Xbox one with a game or two, take it home and plug it into the TV at home and play. In most cases the game will look better than most off the shelf computers from a large retailer.
PC's have become simpler to use and consumer friendlier but still don't compare to the ease of use of a console.
Say someone has the idea to walk into a Bestbuy and try out PC gaming instead of buying a console. First problem, they won't understand any of the specs. We are not the majority, most people buying PC's have no idea what's inside. Sure they could ask a friend or a sales person but you're now making it more complicated than a console and adding extra time, thought,confusion, effort, fears of making the wrong choice, etc. Oh and they'll probably also recommend at least $800 for something decent.
They keep looking around and see a Cool gaming PC and it's less than $500! I'll take this home and play some Fallout 4, Batman Arkham Knight, or some new release.
Let's take a look inside, it has a Radeon R7 240, This card is barely better than a built-in Intel 4600. It plays games on the lowest setting possible(720p), if it can play them at all. They'll need a monitor, at least they don't have to worry about getting a good monitor since it really won't do much above 720p. Oh they also need a controller, let's add another $30 at least. Six months after purchase, the anti virus software trial ran out and they start spamming to renew... oh I guess I have to buy that, I don't want any virus'.
And after they've taken it home, they have the potential to run into some of the potential problems we've seen in this thread while trying to play
Or they just walk in, buy a PS3/Xbox one with a game or two, take it home and plug it into the TV at home and play. In most cases the game will look better than most off the shelf computers from a large retailer.
PC's have become simpler to use and consumer friendlier but still don't compare to the ease of use of a console.
Fess
Member
I'm sure you're fine with your situation but have you tried Steam Link?
I can't use a long HDMI cable either, because of the range from the PC desk to the living room, but Steam Link over 5ghz wifi has worked surprisingly well for me.
I'm sure there is some stuttering but it's still very very close to locked 60fps and definitely way above consoles in both graphics and framerates. I use a wireless 360 controller, the Steam Link starts by holding in the home button on the controller, games can be installed with a click of a button, and it's absolutely 100% silent. I wouldn't say that it's as seamless as a real console but it's not far off. Comfy couch Witcher 3 at ~60fps with Ultra PC graphics on a silent Apple TV sized box is pretty amazing tbh.
And it's super easy to set up! Remember that I don't want any hassle. I just plugged it in and set up the wifi and then I saw my PC and clicked on it and instantly saw the games library. Only downside is that only 100% controller supported games can be played this way. I'm sure the experts knows some way around that too but I'm satisfied as it is.
I still find myself having to 'tinker' to get new release games to work at least a couple times a year on PC, which is ahead of the zero I have to on console.
It isn't reasonable to expect anyone to go through that to get a game to work. This is something I put up with, if I couldn't deal with this on PC I wouldn't buy games on PC, its not for everyone particularly when the alternative on console is patch game and play with little to no input needed from the user.
This is a great point. The whole verify cache, ensure drivers are up to date and disable overlay programs followed by quick google search/steam community hub to see whats up is all shorthand to me now and I can burn through all these steps and can go from unplayable lock screen to playing without issues within minutes.
It isn't reasonable to expect anyone to go through that to get a game to work. This is something I put up with, if I couldn't deal with this on PC I wouldn't buy games on PC, its not for everyone particularly when the alternative on console is patch game and play with little to no input needed from the user.
As we said before. There is no argument that console is better for the average person. End of thread.
Now, for the average person on that present forum, there is an argument, that PC gaming is easy enough for that population.
The average guy buying things in Walmart/BestBuy/whatever is not hanging on neogaf.
Fess
Member
True but you're talking about casual gamers here, when starting this thread I was kind of talking about core gamers, like the people on this board who still believes that PC gaming is difficult.
I honestly think the gap between PC and console is closing fast for core gamers as it is. Especially now that upgrades is kind of a norm. The console cost has become higher with the online subs and upgrades you'll probably want, visual options is added to consoles too which many console gamers seem to be scared about, old games has been brought up here too which consoles aren't any better at, same controllers can be used, you have big TV mode, Steam Link, etc.
And while I understand now that I might've been unusually lucky with my hassle-free PC I still believe that if I can become a PC gamer then any core gamer here can.
They usually build it, stress test it and make sure everything needed is up to date.
I recommend people getting a custom built PC like this as it's simple and require nothing from the person buying it.
Firstly the enthusiast and high end part and PC sale is on rise and these meh machines on a decline. People willing to invest $500 is either dumb or actually try to make themselves familiar with what they're purchasing; a minimum effort will tell you everything you need to know about a system. It's as simple as a post on a forum like this.
Now to the arguments you need to buy a fucking monitor is like factoring in buying a TV for a console, just stop.
If a controller is what you want, sure, but let's not pretend this is some alien thing a console won't have. Look at Nintendo or even take into consideration a year of paid online and you got that controller and then some.
Windows defender is all you need and if you really want to be on the safe side, something like malwarebytes.
While a PC is a tad more complex for starters it's hardly rocket science and if you wanna take the worst possible examples I can rant about how I buy a brand new console and it dying day 2 and now all my saved games are gone and yada yada whoop de fucking doo.
Play what you want how you want, but for a enthusiast site this is getting pretty dumb.
If my console friends who never touched a PC can manage to use it, fucking everyone can.
MadJackChurchill
Banned
Would have believed you if I didn't have to deal with a Silverstone case. "Able to fit full size graphics cards" - panel doesn't close. Screws that came with the fans stripped as soon as I put a screwdriver in them. Had to use zip ties. So intuitive and simple. Everything's just so consistent and well made constantly. Yep.
Had a low profile cooler before that was "designed for X99" (Raijintek). Put the backplate in aaaaaaaand the screws weren't long enough to go through the CPU's metal guard. Awesome. "Designed for it" indeed. Had to saw the plastic grommets that came with it in half so they would screw down.
Get a feeling I would never have to zip-tie anything down on a PS4. Just a feeling.
Apologies, phrased poorly and the web client wouldn't let me change my reply. "If you get a pre-built (and pay a huge premium on it) or if you get past the issues with building".But yes, glad you agree that GPU's aren't just a "plug in and you're done" solution...unlike consoles.
Got an i7 5820k and 2x GTX 1080's. RoTTR still won't get 60fps lock at 4k. Please explain to me how this is all my fault. Ultimately, I can see why people definitely do not want to go through with the returns, building, installing of 3rd party software etc just to play a couple of games. Now with the addition of the Pro and 'Scorpio', they can even play games at decent 4k graphics with literally five minutes of set up. PC gaming is still a pain at times. If you like the constant optimising (which I do at times), amazing, but if not consoles are just so much simpler and comprehensive for a good price.
Spladam
Member
I got you guys covered:
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Choose your weapons, stand your ground.. There's special deals for you console wars guys. First one's free for anyone willing to die on the OUYA hill.
Spladam
Member
It's not, we've been through this. Have you ever factored in the cost of a TV when buying a console? I haven't, nobody does. Because you already have a TV. If you're planning to use your PC on your TV, great. One read through the PC build threads tells you quickly that most are not. Millions of people don't own TV's because of consoles, but millions of people DO own computer monitors because of their PC. It's just simple logic.
I can't believe you stick with this.
Fess
Member
Many core gamers buy 4K TVs now though simply for PS4 Pro. Personally I totally include that cost because I have zero reasons to have a 4K TV otherwise.
Edit: And to be quite honest here, it doesn't stop there. Getting a 4K console would mean getting a 4K receiver too since that's how I connect the consoles to get the sound I want.
Edit2: It'll probably snowball itself into me buying a 4K projector too for movie playback.
This is my extreme scenario though. And I have a triple screen setup for my PC too which would make 4K even more expensive there, which is why I said earlier that 4K is simply out of reach for me for many years.
Just buying a console today and connect it to your old current TV seems like a casual scenario to me at least. Pro has kind of messed it all up for lots of core gamers.
Yeah I had an issue with a low profile cooler and my box. It just didn't fit in. Graphics card got in the way, RAM got in the way. Really frustrating. It's why I've kept with the stock i5 cooler. And this sort of thing you only really figure out by taking the plunge, opening the thing up and either succeeding or making a mistake that costs money.
I almost lost my shit when I thought my graphics card wasn't going to fit in my "takes full size cards" case too. Luckily, I managed to remove a bit of the top fan to accommodate a pesky heatpipe.
I was more successful with doing the cooler on my dad's PC, but having a freaking massive LianLi case (inherited from me) tends to help with internal logistics!
But, y'know, I'm ok with this sort of stuff and I enjoy the achievement when I get the end result. But doesn't dispel that PC gaming is difficult with too much tinkering.
Dictator93
Member
"arcane tricks like verifying whether steam downloaded it properly."
Arcane.
Arcane.
It sounds like you didn't do the basic minimum of research.
If something doesn't fit, it's because you didn't check what your case can accommodate, or the size of the cooler. Secondly, it doesn't "either succeed or cost money". If you bought the wrong thing, send it back and get a refund. ffs.
BigTnaples
Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
I mean. I love my PC rig. Dual Screen shared with a comphy couch 65" 4K and an entire room dedicated to Vive. It's great. And I have hundreds upon hundreds of steam/Origin etc games.
That said, I do understand the want to just plug and play. Certain games I find myself tinkering almost more than I do playing. Now, I enjoy the tinkering, but I get those that don't want to get wrapped up in it.
Especially with Pro and soon Scorpio games. I can spend more time playing, and not feel like I'm doing myself a huge disservice by not buying the PC game. Which before would lead me to double dip on everything.
I can't count the number of times I've tweaked and tweaked to get the perfect framerate to fidelity ratio, only to get to a later stage in the game where those settings don't hold up and have to go back to tinkering again. Again, I enjoy that. But to many, that can be frustrating.
That said, I do understand the want to just plug and play. Certain games I find myself tinkering almost more than I do playing. Now, I enjoy the tinkering, but I get those that don't want to get wrapped up in it.
Especially with Pro and soon Scorpio games. I can spend more time playing, and not feel like I'm doing myself a huge disservice by not buying the PC game. Which before would lead me to double dip on everything.
I can't count the number of times I've tweaked and tweaked to get the perfect framerate to fidelity ratio, only to get to a later stage in the game where those settings don't hold up and have to go back to tinkering again. Again, I enjoy that. But to many, that can be frustrating.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
I don't get why gamers think the "average person" is a blithering idiot, that's incapable of an ounce of learning skills?
Maybe I'm just surrounded by smarter people, but in my experience the "average person" is going to do well at anything they take an interest to. I know average people that rebuild cars, redo their bathrooms, brew their own beer...shit that's ten times more complicated then putting a PC together and understanding what the few components do. They weren't born with this knowledge. They learned it.
In the videogame forum bubble, the average person can't even tie their shoes correctly. In the real world the average person is good at whatever they set their mind to achieve.
So if the average person walks into Best Buy with an interest in PC gaming, they most likely have already read up on it, or are in the process of learning more before taking the plunge.
Witcher 3 PS4 Performance Thread
Known Issues:
Runs at 20FPS with medium settings
Solutions:
Fuck you deal with it
Because if the average person can put on clothes on a normal day it no longer fit the narritive of how difficult everything is.
😂
Atraveller
Banned
Having owned PCs, a Xbox One S and a PS4 Pro, I know for a fact that Steam's ecosystem (actually just PC in general) is much more superior. Auto-patch that is on time, auto-download content if you own an expansion pass, consistent high download speed, convenient DLC/addon activation/deactivation, free multiplayer, free cloud-save, competitive prices from third party retailers.
There are plenty of tech luddites around. These seemingly normal and smart people just refuse to learn even the basics of computing yet somehow manage to use them enough to make thru their office life. Googling a solution to a problem they have that would probably come with step by step instructions to solve it seems to be impossible for them.
Hopefully these people will ask "that guy who knows computers" when considering purchasing something but I would not be surprised if many just went to Best Buy and trusted whatever the sales rep recommended - which might be a overpriced, way underpowered "gaming PC".
Are they the average person? I don't know but there's enough of them around.
Lupin3
Targeting terrorists with a D-Pad
In general I find PC gaming to be easier/more convenient. The computer is always on, which means I'm always 2-3 clicks away from starting a game in no time at all. Don't have to boot up my consoles, turn on the tv, and wait for the rest to happen.
Steam's just there. All the time. Ready and waiting.
And settings? If they aren't already optimized, it takes seconds to change resolution and turn v-sync on. I rather have the ability to affect the frame rate, than not.
Usually no hasslehoff either. Only the occasional problems with early access stuff (Yes, King of the Kill, I'm looking at you).
Steam's just there. All the time. Ready and waiting.
And settings? If they aren't already optimized, it takes seconds to change resolution and turn v-sync on. I rather have the ability to affect the frame rate, than not.
Usually no hasslehoff either. Only the occasional problems with early access stuff (Yes, King of the Kill, I'm looking at you).
shouamabane
Member
It was the last time I tried, and I don't feel like spending hundreds of dollars to find out how much better it is.
This thread is interesting. I've been so close to jumping to PC gaming over the past few years but always lost my nerve. I'm still on the edge (my primary interest is racing sims) but I'll be waiting to see just what Scorpio brings to the table later this year. I think second- or third-gen VR (with less of the current resolution and FoV compromises) might be the trigger I finally need. It's a constantly-evolving moving target though.
I spent ages faffing around for a cooler before plumping for a Noctua one. I just... I mean I may have missed something when researching but hey ho.
RE: refund. I mean I opened it and tried to fit it, so I don't know where I stood on that but, sadly, I'd bought in $ vouchers from Amazon.com (I'm £) and I just cut my losses there and sold it on Ebay.
I'm usually pretty decent on building. I made myself my miniITX and have maintained it, I build up my dad's tower. Absolutely fine with all of that. The days of learning from the past gave me a bedrock, but it's easy to slip up.
I've had some choice moments in the past. Like a Powercolour 4850 that had no fan control on it (basically on or off) that I sent back for a better one (I now do lots of reading about fan noise), or when I got a more powerful AM2 chip only to discover my mobo didn't support it. You just kind of learn over time.
There's just stuff you can't foresee. The EVGA 1070's having cooling issues. It's just stuff you take on the chin, learn and get on with it. The 1070 I could send back but I just can't be arsed you know? Taking the box out, taking it to pieces, getting a replacement one on credit so the thing isn't out of commission. It's past my threshold of care at the moment and I'm just going to run with it (not an overclocker) and cash the thing in when a newer card comes along.
I wouldn't do that. If your driver is old (depends on how old really), you're just leaving performance on the table in newer games. And yes, I believe there has also been a security vulnerability in the recent past.
With Geforce Experience I find this to be quite hassle-free tbh
Pyramid head
Banned
The state of this game is an absolute joke on PC.
Been a PC gamer since 1998 and have never experienced anything like it.
encephalon
Member
I used to have a laptop with an AMD graphics card that simply didn't like Minecraft and it didn't seem like any amount of "tinkering" would have helped me at the time.
Fess
Member
Do it. It's expensive but it's much better imo. Just keep the consoles for the exclusives but play the multiplats on PC, no more sub-30fps nonsense. And you love racing games don't you? Driveclub and FH3 are great but you haven't seen anything until you try 144hz triple screen PC racing with a steering wheel
Rickenslacker
Banned
All I did was double click on the installer exe from GOG. Then I double clicked the game's exe.
Fess
Member
Oh okay thanks for that input, I need to fix that right away.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Consider taking a video of how you install it and show us here
My 'difficulties' with PC gaming from 2010-2014:
1) I hate fan noise and paranoid about temps.
2) More embarrassingly, I don't have a clue what most the graphic options in a game do. What does turning X on do? What PC component is it stressing out? Does turning X on impact another thing? Would be great if these were explained in game, some games do, many don't. Would love a for dummies guide. And then apparently I was supposed to be playing in borderless windowed mode all this time.
Apart from that I loved PC gaming and would love to get a new one. I was kinda lucky in the sense that any game I bought worked fine on my rig. My friend was unlucky in that he had problems with like every other game he'd buy lol.
1) I hate fan noise and paranoid about temps.
2) More embarrassingly, I don't have a clue what most the graphic options in a game do. What does turning X on do? What PC component is it stressing out? Does turning X on impact another thing? Would be great if these were explained in game, some games do, many don't. Would love a for dummies guide. And then apparently I was supposed to be playing in borderless windowed mode all this time.
Apart from that I loved PC gaming and would love to get a new one. I was kinda lucky in the sense that any game I bought worked fine on my rig. My friend was unlucky in that he had problems with like every other game he'd buy lol.
I've had the Witcher 2 since it came out on PC.
I've had 2 or 3 different rigs since then.
None of them was able to play the game properly, either due to an unfixable stuttering on AMD cards, or due to a known and unfixable problem with some Geforce cards which makes the game not display any textures. (has something to do with AA settings or whatever fuck.)
Last time I tried it on my current PC the game didn't even launch, lol.
Solutions:
There are none. I'm not able to play the game to this day. By reading CDProjekt forums I'm not the only one.
At least The Witcher 3 got patched on PS4, hell, at least the game worked. Oh and I didn't have to waste fucking hours looking for a fix that doesn't even exist apparently.
Fuck me, I have to deal with it. At least people on the 360 were able to play the game .
Seriously, people just need to start reading PC performance threads to see how ridiculous the claims that "there is no hassle in pc gaming anymore" are. Those threads are filled with people that having performance problems even on monster rigs, people that can't run the game, many stutter problems, game crashes, etc.
It's all an illusion. PC gaming comes together only when you have a monster rigs and an amazing port. Most of the time it's just bullshit.
Maybe I'm just salty because I've always had trouble with gaming on PC, but guess what...I'm not alone judging by steam forums and performance threads.
For racing Sims it's a no brainer.
ethomaz
Banned
The simple fact you need to go a website to download and install Steam is already more advanced/complex than the simple automated process on consoles... that not talking about graphics options, drivers, upgrades, etc.
That will never change no matter how accessible PC become. That a price you paid to have a more scalable platform with more options to play games.
That will never change no matter how accessible PC become. That a price you paid to have a more scalable platform with more options to play games.
