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[RedSwirl]

I'll admit the "optimal" couch mouse-and-keyboard setup has yet to be found. Eventually you just end up using a whole bunch of different control methods for various games.

Personally I'm fine with a wireless MKB that I sit on top of a simple wooden board in my lap. I haven't really noticed any bad input lag, but I should add I almost never play multiplayer games. I also no longer sit 15 feet away from a video game I'm playing whether it's PC or console, but maybe I'd feel different if it was like a 70" screen. There are some companies that offer basically fancier versions of what I'm doing. My issue is I'd want a mechanical wireless full keyboard, and right now there seems to be only one that costs like $200. Couch MKB just isn't something a lot of people are focusing on right now. The Steam controller is a really nice step forward. However, if you actually do figure out a couch MKB solution, then there remain only very specific instances where the Steam controller is superior to both that and an Xbox controller. Witcher 3 is one example for me -- it's a 3rd person action game so it feels more comfortable for me on a controller, but navigating menus and certain things is improved with the mouse cursor. The Steam Controller is certainly best if you absolutely can't figure out a couch MKB solution for your particular setup.

I still wish Microsoft would Windows itself or at least the app/game launcher more compatible with the Xbox pad.

In any case with my current setup I can fairly quickly power up a computer, sit the MKB in my lap, log in, and start up a game. Probably still takes a few seconds longer than powering up a PS4 and starting a game, but it's not significant enough to be a problem.

 

[ViolentP]

i think larger library and free online is a bigger selling point for many PC owners too

My personal opinion, the level of tinkering and manipulation thought to be required for PC gaming is way, way overblown. The PC offers a bigger library, it offers scalability, free online, non-gaming functionality, etc. But it comes with 2 major things:

Maintenance and bigger upfront cost.

For those that do not want to deal with those, a console is a better solution.

 

[dock]

Using and gaming on a modern PC is well within the skills of an average person.

• I didn't know 'verify steam cache / verify integrity' was a thing until earlier this year, and I've been playing games on PC since 1990.
• I didn't realise that I was still expected to manually install Direct X, despite all the automated updates of Windows 10.
• I didn't know I was supposed to check every game on pcgamingwiki.com if I had problems.
• Some PC games I've spent more than an hour trying to get as far as the title screen, and had to give up and get a refund.

Speaking for my fellow below average people, I'm happy to say that PC gaming is not always straightforward, and sometimes my sole hour to play games on PC has instead been a headache or a disappointment.

 

[ViolentP]

• I didn't know 'verify steam cache' was a thing until earlier this year, and I've been playing games on PC since 1990.
• I didn't realise that I was still expected to manually install Direct X, despite all the automated updates of Windows 10.
• I didn't know I was supposed to check every game on pcgamingwiki.com if I had problems.
• Some PC games I've spent more than an hour trying to get as far as the title screen, and had to give up and get a refund.

Speaking for my fellow below average people, I'm happy to say that PC gaming is not always straightforward, and sometimes my sole hour to play games on PC has instead been a headache or a disappointment.

Therein lies the beauty of learning. You learn something once, you don't need to waste an hour next time. There is a growth period when it comes to PC gaming but as long as you're paying attention, it all gets easier. Circumstantial, but I haven't had any serious issue running a game properly in years.

 

[dock]

Therein lies the beauty of learning. You learn something once, you don't need to waste an hour next time. There is a growth period when it comes to PC gaming but as long as you're paying attention, it all gets easier. Circumstantial, but I haven't had any serious issue running a game properly in years.

I hope you didn't mean to be patronising

Despite learning these things, I still wasn't able to get certain games to run.
What I learned instead is that if PC games don't run I shouldn't waste my time with them, and I should get them refunded ASAP.

 

[Kintaro]

I think its a sitgma the platform hasn't gotten away from. But its electronics. Sometimes, shit doesn't work. The amount of "tech support" I get called to do for PS4/XB1s is honestly surprising and makes the amount of trouble I've had with PCs look tame. The problems are very similar.

Games don't install.
Corrupted Installs.
Correupted hard drives.
Game doesn't read but other games read
Brand new games don't install/read.
System won't turn on.
System won't eject disc.
System turns on then off.
Bad equipment (power supply).
General glitches, etc.

These consoles are no longer simple "plug and play" so in my experience, consoles and PCs feel about the same now in terms of problems/tickering/etc.

 

[Caayn]

Therein lies the beauty of learning. You learn something once, you don't need to waste an hour next time. There is a growth period when it comes to PC gaming but as long as you're paying attention, it all gets easier. Circumstantial, but I haven't had any serious issue running a game properly in years.

You assume that people want to spend their, sometimes short, free time to learn this.

 

[ViolentP]

I hope you didn't mean to be patronising

Despite learning these things, I still wasn't able to get certain games to run.
What I learned instead is that if PC games don't run I shouldn't waste my time with them, and I should get them refunded ASAP.

Wasn't being patronizing. The nature of PCs is highly variable due to the large number of possible hardware configurations. This is par for the course. If you sign on to this, you will have to put in some work to understand the ins and outs of your machine and inevitably find a stable point. But with the freedom that comes with PCs, you also have users that do not maintain correctly. It all goes back to the idea that you get out of it what you put in. While I own consoles, I am primarily a PC gamer and in honesty, the issues I get with some console games are much more frustrating to me simply because there is nothing I can do about it. So for my tastes, I prefer the complexity to the simplicity. I also understand the other side of that preference.

You assume that people want to spend their, sometimes short, free time to learn this.

Only thing I am assuming is that if someone wants to get into PC gaming, they know learning is par for the course, not some problem like many people like to make it out to be. If someone doesn't want to learn it, they should get a console. Mostly because if a person isn't willing to learn, they will not be getting anywhere near the value of their investment.

 

[Lister]

You assume that people want to spend their, sometimes short, free time to learn this.

Time I spent "learning" how to google a problem last gen and this gen so that now I usually don't have any issues wiht any game sI get (outside of developer bugs) is soooooooooooo much less than the time I would have spent stuck behind loading screens on console games had I stuck with them last and this gen.

Like orders of magnitude.

 

[azyless]

• I didn't know 'verify steam cache / verify integrity' was a thing until earlier this year, and I've been playing games on PC since 1990.
• I didn't realise that I was still expected to manually install Direct X, despite all the automated updates of Windows 10.
• I didn't know I was supposed to check every game on pcgamingwiki.com if I had problems.
• Some PC games I've spent more than an hour trying to get as far as the title screen, and had to give up and get a refund.

Speaking for my fellow below average people, I'm happy to say that PC gaming is not always straightforward, and sometimes my sole hour to play games on PC has instead been a headache or a disappointment.

I don't think you should make your experience a generality tbh, except for verifying integrity (which is hardly complicated) once in a while, I have never ran into any of the issues you're describing. Not with games less than 20 years old anyway.

 

[JimboJones]

The fuck? Hahaha. Runs at locked 30fps with a mix of medium-high. For half the price of an equivalent in performance PC.

It's capped at 30 but it does drop to mid 20's Xbox1 is unlocked so you get it jumping from 20's to 40's.

 

[Fess]

I don't doubt most people on gaf can use a PC. As stated by many, they just don't want to. I don't know what kind of answer you're looking for at this point. It's been said over and over, but then you go back to saying how you've never had an issue and how lucky you've been. Your question has been answered time and time again. I don't understand why these threads keep popping up or what the people making them expect to learn at this point.

I'm not gonna answer your other question on why people have console war arguments on a games forum though. I mean, come on.

Edit: another good answer below

No hard feelings, I get what you're saying.

I guess my wish was that the thread should be about why people on this board in these discussions constantly says that they don't want a PC because it's too hard and there is too much fiddling with drivers and patches. Read the first sentence in the OP where I lay out the base for my question. Then the thread obviously goes on about average joe's who can't tie their shoe laces and what not. Not my intention. :/

Sorry to put it out there again but I guess I'm here as an example on how easy it _can_ be at least for the average GAF poster who are "smart" enough to post on this board. I don't see how the question has been answered over and over because examples about old games have issues when I haven't had any issues with the more recent games in 4 years.

I mean that's just as bad as stating that it has been proved over and over in Pro threads that they are extremely loud because of a few complaints while completely ignoring those that say that they have silent consoles.

However, I can agree that I might've been unusually lucky with my rig, that certainly seems to be the case from my understanding as a PC noob. Not ignoring that possibility.

But I definitely believe there is a middle ground here that lots of people seem to refuse to believe. That it don't _have_ to be difficult with lots of patching and stuff. I'm not the only person in this thread with a mostly husslefree PC gaming experience.

Side note: My GPU driver was from 7/29/2015 btw so that's how much I care about fiddling with drivers ;P
Updated now... so maybe the problems start now. :S

 

[g11]

I think with this analogy you could equate PC gamers to really anyone who owns a car, not just people who mod them, whereas console games are people who only use public transportation. People who own cars can drive on roads wherever and whenever they want. People who use public transportation can only travel on roads where the public transportation goes.

Maybe people who buy and mod beast rigs are equivalent to Lamborghini owners or just people who buy powerful pickup trucks to haul stuff. People who just buy Hondas would be analogous to people who just use laptops to play LoL and WoW.

Yeah, your's works better.

 

[antibolo]

The free time I can spend for video games is limited and I have no interest in spending it on maintaining a gaming PC. It has nothing to do with "difficulty". I just don't care.

 

[Kssio_Aug]

• I didn't know 'verify steam cache / verify integrity' was a thing until earlier this year, and I've been playing games on PC since 1990.
• I didn't realise that I was still expected to manually install Direct X, despite all the automated updates of Windows 10.
• I didn't know I was supposed to check every game on pcgamingwiki.com if I had problems.
• Some PC games I've spent more than an hour trying to get as far as the title screen, and had to give up and get a refund.

Speaking for my fellow below average people, I'm happy to say that PC gaming is not always straightforward, and sometimes my sole hour to play games on PC has instead been a headache or a disappointment.

1) You just need to verify steam cache / integrity if you run into any issue. I almost never click that option.
2) Most games that recquires DirectX installation just ask for you to install it right away. That "next > next > next" procedement very well known for program installation.
3) I didn't know about this pcgaminingwiki.com! It looks great, I'm bookmarking it! =P
4) I can't deny it never happens (a game that has issues to boot up). But I think the last one I had this was the original Metro 2033. It's not a common issue.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

No hard feelings, I get what you're saying.

I guess my wish was that the thread should be about why people on this board in these discussions constantly says that they don't want a PC because it's too hard and there is too much fiddling with drivers and patches. Read the first sentence in the OP where I lay out the base for my question. Then the thread obviously goes on about average joe's who can't tie their shoe laces and what not. Not my intention. :/

Sorry to put it out there again but I guess I'm here as an example on how easy it _can_ be at least for the average GAF poster who are "smart" enough to post on this board. I don't see how the question has been answered over and over because examples about old games have issues when I haven't had any issues with the more recent games in 4 years.

I mean that's just as bad as stating that it has been proved over and over in Pro threads that they are extremely loud because of a few complaints while completely ignoring those that say that they have silent consoles.

However, I can agree that I might've been unusually lucky with my rig, that certainly seems to be the case from my understanding as a PC noob. Not ignoring that possibility.

But I definitely believe there is a middle ground here that lots of people seem to refuse to believe. That it don't _have_ to be difficult with lots of patching and stuff. I'm not the only person in this thread with a mostly husslefree PC gaming experience.

Side note: My GPU driver was from 7/29/2015 btw so that's how much I care about fiddling with drivers ;P
Updated now... so maybe the problems start now. :S

Problem is its a complete lotto. You had no problems and didnt update your drivers for 2 years. However there are games that will run like pure garbage if you dont update drivers so its in your best interest to do so.

What your asking is why dont people who literally want a machine they turn on to play games get a PC when its a lot more expensive upfront (even more so in places like the UK), requires a lot more user input and set up and might be a complete fucking head ache sometimes.

They are different things and its a good thing that they are.

 

[RichiRamjag]

No hard feelings, I get what you're saying.

I guess my wish was that the thread should be about why people on this board in these discussions constantly says that they don't want a PC because it's too hard and there is too much fiddling with drivers and patches. Read the first sentence in the OP where I lay out the base for my question. Then the thread obviously goes on about average joe's who can't tie their shoe laces and what not. Not my intention. :/

Sorry to put it out there again but I guess I'm here as an example on how easy it _can_ be at least for the average GAF poster who are "smart" enough to post on this board. I don't see how the question has been answered over and over because examples about old games have issues when I haven't had any issues with the more recent games in 4 years.

I mean that's just as bad as stating that it has been proved over and over in Pro threads that they are extremely loud because of a few complaints while completely ignoring those that say that they have silent consoles.

However, I can agree that I might've been unusually lucky with my rig, that certainly seems to be the case from my understanding as a PC noob. Not ignoring that possibility.

But I definitely believe there is a middle ground here that lots of people seem to refuse to believe. That it don't _have_ to be difficult with lots of patching and stuff. I'm not the only person in this thread with a mostly husslefree PC gaming experience.

Side note: My GPU driver was from 7/29/2015 btw so that's how much I care about fiddling with drivers ;P
Updated now... so maybe the problems start now. :S

It's been answered because people have addressed it time and time again. Yeah, it's really great that you've never had an issue, but I can describe more than a few situations that required time to resolve. Most PC gamers probably can. First time I went to play division on pc, I got a green screen. Had to find it what the problem was, according to the web, a driver update was needed. There's a whole nother part of the story where geforce experience wouldn't install the driver no matter what I did and I ended up manually installing it. It's not hard, but I don't want to spend a second of my time doing that personally.

For many folks who are PC savvy, they just don't want to spend their time doing anything other than putting a game in and playing. It's doesn't matter if they can fix it on their own. It doesn't matter if it takes two minutes or two hours. Many of us don't want to mess with it. I can't see how you've missed reply after reply saying that. You're not an example for these people because they're not interested to begin with. We don't need an example, we need folks to just play their platforms in peace and stop trying to convert others.

I'm in no way trying to shit on PC. I think it's the superior option for those that enjoy it. I used to primarily game on PC myself, but nowadays, it's just not for me. Here goes more posts saying the same thing:

The free time I can spend for video games is limited and I have no interest in spending it on maintaining a gaming PC. It has nothing to do with "difficulty". I just don't care.

I think "difficult" in the title is misleading. It's not that people are dumb and can't figure out the tinkering associated with PC gaming, it's that they can't - or don't want to - be bothered with it.

I work in IT and while I don't think it is difficult, it is also not something I want to deal with when I want to play games. With all the options and flexibility in PC gaming there is going to be more complexity, and since I know it exists I tend to tinker more, while on a console my options are nonexistent and in that way it is oddly freeing.

This so much. I work in game development so I'm at a PC all day, it's genuine relief to get away from Windows and a mouse.

My R2 under my TV helps but there's always the threat of PC games simply not working and my gaming hour becoming a stressful google session.

 

[Fess]

It's been answered because people have addressed it time and time again. Yeah, it's really great that you've never had an issue, but I can describe more than a few situations that required time to resolve. Most PC gamers probably can. First time I went to play division on pc, I got a green screen. Had to find it what the problem was, according to the web, a driver update was needed. There's a whole nother part of the story where geforce experience wouldn't install the driver no matter what I did and I ended up manually installing it. It's not hard, but I don't want to spend a second of my time doing that personally.

For many folks who are PC savvy, they just don't want to spend their time doing anything other than putting a game in and playing. It's doesn't matter if they can fix it on their own. It doesn't matter if it takes two minutes or two hours. Many of us don't want to mess with it. I can't see how you've missed reply after reply saying that. You're not an example for these people because they're not interested to begin with. We don't need an example, we need folks to just play their platforms in peace and stop trying to convert others.

I'm in no way trying to shit on PC. I think it's the superior option for those that enjoy it. I used to primarily game on PC myself, but nowadays, it's just not for me. Here goes more posts saying the same thing:

Yup I talked about what the quotes says too, you even quoted me on it, that maybe the answer is that they simply don't _want_ to game on PC even though they could totally handle it, if they wanted to.

Yet we see the troubles/drivers/patches/tinkering arguments everywhere, they're to go to replies if someone wants a detailed reply on why they don't just buy a PC.

I'm sure there are situations where those argument are totally valid though, maybe if you like older games or certain problematic new games I just haven't tried yet, but I'm thinking that the answer to the question:
-Why don't you game on PC?
Usually could be answered with:
-I don't want to.
Without ever mentioning the argument of how much problem it is.

Edit:
Anyhow, in the end even if you have a problematic PC rig, how often do these issues show themselves?

Regarding the GPU driver update...
Still no issues after updating the GPU driver. Phew. Had to test it a bit, not the best game for triple screen gaming but still, I started Rise of the Tomb Raider - Above 60fps in average fps, near 100fps max, woah! Still amazes me everytime something is above 60fps, it looks sooo good =) And honestly, personally I can't see how it's not worth even some occasional hassle when seeing this. But yeah, no converting attempt, everybody does what feels right for them.

 

[Hux1ey]

I was all set to make the jump a couple of years ago, then two things happened:

1. Project Cars launched on PS4 (with Assetto Corsa announced around the same time)
2. VR looked like it was about to get serious.

The first reduced my 'need' to build a gaming PC for sim racing, the second gave me pause until spec requirements and headset performance were finalised. Since then, the PS Pro with Boost mode has seen the performance of pCARS and AC improve dramatically, and the limitations of current-gen VR (resolution and FoV) have damped my enthusiasm for it.

I guess I'm saying I'm happy with what I've got right now, and I love the simplicity. Even if I ever properly tried 120hz triple screens it probably wouldn't be enough to convince me, as there would always be the thought that 'improved' VR was just around the corner, and it's really VR where I think the future of sim racing lies. Money isn't a limiting factor but I don't want to build a triple-screen rig only for those screen to be redundant in the very near future. I'm still in that perpetual state of flux right now, but feel that the next couple of years could be defining.

But by then the PS5 and Xbox Gemini would be out and might make the decision harder once again..!

Trouble is you're missing out on most of the best racing sims out there such as iRacing, Automobilista, RaceRoom Racing Experience, Game Stock Car Extreme, Rfactor 2, Power and Glory mod for GTR2, Richard Burns Rally mods, the list goes on and on.

And Assetto Corsa is brilliant but it's half the game without the awesome mods!

 

[bigdaddygamebot]

Your question has been answered time and time again. I don't understand why these threads keep popping up or what the people making them expect to learn at this point.

This. I don't know why it matters so much to some people and the need for testimonial threads.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Yup I talked about what the quotes says too, you even quoted me on it, that maybe the answer is that they simply don't _want_ to game on PC even though they could totally handle it, if they wanted to.

Yet we see the troubles/drivers/patches/tinkering arguments everywhere, they're to go to replies if someone wants a detailed reply on why they don't just buy a PC.

I'm sure there are situations where those argument are totally valid though, maybe if you like older games or certain problematic new games I just haven't tried yet, but I'm thinking that the answer to the question:
-Why don't you game on PC?
Usually could be answered with:
-I don't want to.
Without ever mentioning the argument of how much problem it is.

Then you arnt hearing the answer properly. The answer us that console gaming is easier and cheaper. Not that PC gaming is hard.

Why its easier should be self explanatory. And if not its as simple as advantages and disadvantages of a closed vs open system.

 

[nycgamer4ever]

PC gaming have definitely became more accessible over the years from more stable hardware and better software platforms to more affordable hardware. But the state of poor ports is still alive and well. Triple A games still ship in unplayable states to this day. Games like Dishonored, Deux Ex Mankind Divided, Forza Horizon 3 and Batman Arkham Knight are good examples. I think it's definitely a platform to invest in.

ON top of this there are still the issues of updating drivers and windows update screwing stuff up. It's just more work involved.

 

[ViolentP]

Then you arnt hearing the answer properly. The answer us that console gaming is easier and cheaper. Not that PC gaming is hard.

Why its easier should be self explanatory. And if not its as simple as advantages and disadvantages of a closed vs open system.

One, I don't think it's cheaper. PC simply requires more monetary investment up front whereas the cost of console ownership is spread through the years. Secondly, I think console gaming being plug and play is as much a misnomer these days as is the idea you need a doctorate to game on a PC.

 

[Huge Succeeded]

The case being presented for the overwhelming complexity of PC gaming often seems to be based largely on fictional people straight out of a bad infomercial. Hundreds of millions of people worldwide play on PC every day, little kids grow up playing League of Legends and Minecraft on PC, tons of casual gamers play the Sims, yet the average adult male or female consumer is presented here like a complete moron. Using and gaming on a modern PC is well within the skills of an average person.

.


Sometimes I forget that literally everyone who's under the age of 35 years old doesn't count toward this aggregate 'average person' who keeps being brought up... threads like this are around to remind me.
HEY GUYS!
It's 2017 but your 60 year old mother still represents the 'average computer user' (and therefore the average prospective computer gamer, obvs)! It's true, it's true, just ask tech support!
Isn't that insane

Spoiler

ly convenient

?

 

[Spacejaws]

It's not so bad with new games but going back a few years can cause some really unstable games. GTAIV is almost unplayable, Dark Souls needs tinkering, Max Payne 1 had some real bad problems, resolution patches, Jedi Knight 2 needed some seriously love to get working without looking like a shit show. Compare that with a console you can plug in and play and I kinda miss it sometimes.

I once went through my 600 odd steam library and ran them all one at a time to make sure I could play them offline and yea and had a large list of ini tweaks, fan patches and various nonsense and some other games just reuse to load. To this day I still can't get Tron to run.

So yea if you stick with soley the new releases and don't go back a few years you'll be fine. In a few years time I'm not sure if suddenly they'll be problems running Doom or Dark Souls 3 but I can say that the reason I am familiar with computers at all and work around them now is my time spent butting heads with them and trying to get something stupid like Icewind Dale or Final Fantasy VIII working and been driven to insanity breaking it apart.

 

[Fess]

Then you arnt hearing the answer properly. The answer us that console gaming is easier and cheaper. Not that PC gaming is hard.

Why its easier should be self explanatory. And if not its as simple as advantages and disadvantages of a closed vs open system.

Well it's definitely cheaper that's for sure, I've talked about that many times, that has been my personal hurdle, I think I mentioned earlier that all in all my rig has cost me roughly $3000 :S

But easier? For me it has been pretty much the same tbh, but we're already talked about that. If you've been unlicky and got a problematic rig and it also cost like 5x a console then, yeah, definitely a valid reason to be a bit sceptic I guess.

Anyhow, this thread has gone in circles awhile now, not much left to say. If anything this thread has made me love my apparently magical rig even more, but it has also spooked me enough to fear every update from now on. Driver updates is one thing but upgrading to Windows 10 will be... interesting. :/

 

[Toe-Knee]

trying to get something stupid like Icewind Dale or Final Fantasy VIII working and been driven to insanity breaking it apart.

By any chance was the ff8 issue the one where the backgrounds are broken up with black lines?

I never managed to get that game working right. I gave up and bought it on psn.

 

[Fess]

It's not so bad with new games but going back a few years can cause some really unstable games. GTAIV is almost unplayable, Dark Souls needs tinkering, Max Payne 1 had some real bad problems, resolution patches, Jedi Knight 2 needed some seriously love to get working without looking like a shit show. Compare that with a console you can plug in and play and I kinda miss it sometimes.

I once went through my 600 odd steam library and ran them all one at a time to make sure I could play them offline and yea and had a large list of ini tweaks, fan patches and various nonsense and some other games just reuse to load. To this day I still can't get Tron to run.

So yea if you stick with soley the new releases and don't go back a few years you'll be fine. In a few years time I'm not sure if suddenly they'll be problems running Doom or Dark Souls 3 but I can say that the reason I am familiar with computers at all and work around them now is my time spent butting heads with them and trying to get something stupid like Icewind Dale or Final Fantasy VIII working and been driven to insanity breaking it apart.

Not saying that you're wrong, but average Joe is often brought up regarding the complexity of dealing with patches and ini files etc but is average Joe the one who plays the old games used as example for that type of tinkering?

 

[c0de]

You assume that people want to spend their, sometimes short, free time to learn this.

And it's questionable useful knowledge as you can hardly use it anywhere else.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Because of people's addiction to framerate.

 

[ViolentP]

Because of people's addiction to framerate.

?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

?

Getting a game running on PC has never been easier. Tinkering is only needed when someone wants a certain framerate.

 

[ViolentP]

Getting a game running on PC has never been easier. Tinkering is only needed when someone wants a certain framerate.

Gotcha.

 

[Tagavaka]

I'd like to offer another take and that is that the attitudes of many PC gamers are also a factor in the choice many have made not to adopt the PC platform.

This is not all PC gamers of course but there is a significant hostility and arrogance that can sometimes be found in some parts of the PC gaming culture. There is a projection of superiority of their platform and the ridicule directed towards those who use the "lesser" platforms. There is often the implicit suggestion that those unaware of the entirety of the ins and outs of building a gaming PC are idiots and that complicated builds are the only way to game on PC. Plus all that "Master Race" stupidity.

This is one of the factors I believe is the issue, many parts of the PC gaming culture projecting it as a more complicated hobby than it has to be and how much better they are for being a part of it.

Again, this is not all PC gamers and there are so many lovely parts of the community and people willingly to share their knowledge and provide easy gateways and understandings for others. I grew up gaming on PC and even though the console is my primary platform nowadays I still dip back into the PC gaming pool for certain things. I am just giving my impression and opinion of the things i've seen that can definitely be contributing negatively to the comfort levels many non PC gamers have of joining the platform

 

[ViolentP]

I'd like to offer another take and that is that the attitudes of many PC gamers are also a factor in the choice many have made not to adopt the PC platform.

This is not all PC gamers of course but there is a significant hostility and arrogance that can sometimes be found in some parts of the PC gaming culture. There is a projection of superiority of their platform and the ridicule directed towards those who use the "lesser" platforms. There is often the implicit suggestion that those unaware of the entirety of the ins and outs of building a gaming PC are idiots and that complicated builds are the only way to game on PC. Plus all that "Master Race" stupidity.

This is one of the factors I believe is the issue, many parts of the PC gaming culture projecting it as a more complicated hobby than it has to be and how much better they are for being a part of it.

Again, this is not all PC gamers and there are so many lovely parts of the community and people willingly to share their knowledge and provide easy gateways and understandings for others. I grew up gaming on PC and even though the console is my primary platform nowadays I still dip back into the PC gaming pool for certain things. I am just giving my impression and opinion of the things i've seen that can definitely be contributing negatively to the comfort levels many non PC gamers have of joining the platform

PC Master Race, Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo fanboys. Every platform has their shitty crowd. Doesn't make sense to me to draw attention to a single one.

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Gotcha.

I know that's why I tinker. 45+ and I'm happy.

 

[ViolentP]

I know that's why I tinker. 45+ and I'm happy.

These days, a majority of tinkering I do is related to mods. If I am running a game at max and aren't utilizing too many resources, I'm certainly willing to put in the work to make it look even better.

 

[Pyramid head]

Getting a game running on PC has never been easier. Tinkering is only needed when someone wants a certain framerate.

You should shoot Square Enix an email and explain to them how to get Nier: Automata running on an Nvidia 700 series card, because they sure don't seem to be finding it easy.

 

[Brashnir]

You should shoot Square Enix an email and explain to them how to get Nier: Automata running on an Nvidia 700 series card, because they sure don't seem to be finding it easy.

Has Durante spent 15 minutes looking into the issue yet?

 

[Tagavaka]

PC Master Race, Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo fanboys. Every platform has their shitty crowd. Doesn't make sense to me to draw attention to a single one.

I 100% agree all of those groups are annoying but I mentioned the master race stuff because of the thread and because while Sony's fanboys for example are talking about how much better their games are and the X-Box fanboys are talking about how much better their consoles are then Sony's, the PC Master Race crowd are usually projecting an attitude of PC being an elite and much more complex and complicated platform and this might intimidate people from thinking it is a platform a layman can adopt.

I'm sorry if I was singling PC out because I think all platforms have these groups I just think PC's might be contributing to the problem of a wider public not being more comfortable adopting PC gaming

 

[Spacejaws]

Not saying that you're wrong, but average Joe is often brought up regarding the complexity of dealing with patches and ini files etc but is average Joe the one who plays the old games used as example for that type of tinkering?

Nope probably not at all but it does put forward the 'impression' that tinkering is a big part of it when something as popular as Dark Souls is heavily referenced as having essential tweaks.

But for a more recent example whatever engine Resident Evil 6 and Dragons Dogma use on my laptop I cannot start the game with Vsync enabled or the .exe will crash. The only fix I could find was to start the game with it disabled then enable it and make the ini read only so that the setting would revert everytime that game is loaded. Wolfenstien on my desktop the lip sync would drift and the fix was to install older catylst beta drivers. Tinkering isn't exclusive to old games.

 

[ViolentP]

I 100% agree all of those groups are annoying but I mentioned the master race stuff because of the thread and because while Sony's fanboys for example are talking about how much better their games are and the X-Box fanboys are talking about how much better their consoles are then Sony's, the PC Master Race crowd are usually projecting an attitude of PC being an elite and much more complex and complicated platform and this might intimidate people from thinking it is a platform a layman can adopt.

I'm sorry if I was singling PC out because I think all platforms have these groups I just think PC's might be contributing to the problem of a wider public not being more comfortable adopting PC gaming

I really think it's the same. The way Sony fans think their platform is better is the same motivation certain PC gamers have. The only difference is that while one console group attacks the other, these PC gamers choose to attack both consoles. They've also given themselves a title that frankly is nothing more than admission of the real term for what they are, fanboy. I really do not think any one is worse than the other though. They're all equally trash in my book.

 

[OmegaTreeFish]

Well it's definitely cheaper that's for sure, I've talked about that many times, that has been my personal hurdle, I think I mentioned earlier that all in all my rig has cost me roughly $3000 :S

But easier? For me it has been pretty much the same tbh, but we're already talked about that. If you've been unlicky and got a problematic rig and it also cost like 5x a console then, yeah, definitely a valid reason to be a bit sceptic I guess.

Anyhow, this thread has gone in circles awhile now, not much left to say. If anything this thread has made me love my apparently magical rig even more, but it has also spooked me enough to fear every update from now on. Driver updates is one thing but upgrading to Windows 10 will be... interesting. :/

But its objectively not easier. Even if you have the perfect PC experience.

You dont need to search for any third party software to do anything on a console. If when you set up a pc for the first time you had to install steam or origin or deal with the nightmare that is the windows store.

There will be games you load up in steam big picture mode that require you to use a mouse because a shitty menu popped open.

You can't turn you pc on with a press of the button on your controller.

You cant put your pc in sleep mode and still have it update everything or tell it to download games remotely (it has to be on to do that)

You know practically everyone uses a controller in online gaming

You have one unified friends list and can set up big group chat super easily.

A pc as a device is way way superior in what it can do that a console. But because a console is a closed platform designed to do a specific task its far more streamlined.

Is a pc hard these days? No but its still not close to as simple and easy as a console. There are plenty of people in this thread like me who have used both for years and even pc only guys saying this.

Its a question with a really obvious answer that people seem to want to ignore because reasons.

 

[ViolentP]

But its objectively not easier. Even if you have the perfect PC experience.

You dont need to search for any third party software to do anything on a console. If when you set up a pc for the first time you had to install steam or origin or deal with the nightmare that is the windows store.

You seem to be confusing option with burden. I don't complain when I go to a restaurant and they offer me a menu of items to choose from. I prefer it. Some prefer the same meal. One isn't objectively superior to the other, but one is more suited to an individual than the other.

There will be games you load up in steam big picture mode that require you to use a mouse because a shitty menu popped open.

PC gamers enjoy their mice and keyboards. Controllers are the option. I can understand how a console owner would dislike the fact, but again, not a real problem.

You can't turn you pc on with a press of the button on your controller.

This is not a feature worth touting. A simple counter-argument would be that you don't have to get up and switch discs on a PC. It's silly.

You cant put your pc in sleep mode and still have it update everything or tell it to download games remotely (it has to be on to do that)

I could easily set my monitor to sleep if I wanted automatic updates but my boot up time is around 7 seconds and my patience isn't so thin that I can't wait 3 minutes for an update to download. But if you really wanted to , you could.

You know practically everyone uses a controller in online gaming

Restrict better controls for the sake of uniformity. I understand the logic but this is a reach as far as benefits go.

You have one unified friends list and can set up big group chat super easily.

It's never a good idea to have a single option. You are left at the mercy of that individual service. Again, options are not a bad thing.

A pc as a device is way way superior in what it can do that a console. But because a console is a closed platform designed to do a specific task its far more streamlined.

What you call streamlined, I call restricted. That XBox One interface is a nightmare.

Is a pc hard these days? No but its still not close to as simple and easy as a console. There are plenty of people in this thread like me who have used both for years and even pc only guys saying this.

Again, options and difficulty are not the same thing.

Its a question with a really obvious answer that people seem to want to ignore because reasons.

And this is the crux as to why I chose to respond to you. I am in no way saying your way of feeling about PC gaming is wrong, but it is motivated by what you are looking for in a gaming platform. My disagreements are a reflection of what I hold important in a platform. Both are legit and serve to point us to the platform that is right for us. So when people "ignore" these reasons, it's not because they don't want to address it, it's because sometimes that level of logic doesn't apply to us.

I mean no offense here so if anything I said sounds adversarial, apologies as that is not my intention.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Yup I talked about what the quotes says too, you even quoted me on it, that maybe the answer is that they simply don't _want_ to game on PC even though they could totally handle it, if they wanted to.

Yet we see the troubles/drivers/patches/tinkering arguments everywhere, they're to go to replies if someone wants a detailed reply on why they don't just buy a PC.

I'm sure there are situations where those argument are totally valid though, maybe if you like older games or certain problematic new games I just haven't tried yet, but I'm thinking that the answer to the question:
-Why don't you game on PC?
Usually could be answered with:
-I don't want to.
Without ever mentioning the argument of how much problem it is.

Edit:
Anyhow, in the end even if you have a problematic PC rig, how often do these issues show themselves?

Regarding the GPU driver update...
Still no issues after updating the GPU driver. Phew. Had to test it a bit, not the best game for triple screen gaming but still, I started Rise of the Tomb Raider - Above 60fps in average fps, near 100fps max, woah! Still amazes me everytime something is above 60fps, it looks sooo good =) And honestly, personally I can't see how it's not worth even some occasional hassle when seeing this. But yeah, no converting attempt, everybody does what feels right for them.

I think most people just use tinker generally in regards to doing anything other gaming. Others have brought up many specific issues they've faced (I could dig those up to) so you're kind of being willfully ignorant as you keep ignoring those posts. Now you're asking questions such as how often Issues even occur, which is silly. None of us keep data on that shit. If you're honestly interested in knowing what issues can occur when gaming on PC, check the steam forums. You'll find tons of it there. That's not to say those problems always occur, but it's the best place to get a general idea of what most people come across.

There's a reason these threads go no where tbh. Anyhow, I've gotta step on on this one, was nice speaking with ya.

You seem to be confusing option with burden. I don't complain when I go to a restaurant and they offer me a menu of items to choose from. I prefer it. Some prefer the same meal. One isn't objectively superior to the other, but one is more suited to an individual than the other.



PC gamers enjoy their mice and keyboards. Controllers are the option. I can understand how a console owner would dislike the fact, but again, not a real problem.



This is not a feature worth touting. A simple counter-argument would be that you don't have to get up and switch discs on a PC. It's silly.



I could easily set my monitor to sleep if I wanted automatic updates but my boot up time is around 7 seconds and my patience isn't so thin that I can't wait 3 minutes for an update to download. But if you really wanted to , you could.



Restrict better controls for the sake of uniformity. I understand the logic but this is a reach as far as benefits go.



It's never a good idea to have a single option. You are left at the mercy of that individual service. Again, options are not a bad thing.



What you call streamlined, I call restricted. That XBox One interface is a nightmare.



Again, options and difficulty are not the same thing.



And this is the crux as to why I chose to respond to you. I am in no way saying your way of feeling about PC gaming is wrong, but it is motivated by what you are looking for in a gaming platform. My disagreements are a reflection of what I hold important in a platform. Both are legit and serve to point us to the platform that is right for us. So when people "ignore" these reasons, it's not because they don't want to address it, it's because sometimes that level of logic doesn't apply to us.

I mean no offense here so if anything I said sounds adversarial, apologies as that is not my intention.

That's not a real problem for you. For the way I use my PC, I don't want to touch a mouse and keyboard, that's an inconvenience.

 

[ViolentP]

That's not a real problem for you. For the way I use my PC, I don't want to touch a mouse and keyboard, that's an inconvenience.

Well good news is you have a number of options available to you. And if none of those options work for you, perhaps PC gaming isn't right for you. It's certainly not a problem with the platform, however.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Well good news is you have a number of options available to you. And if none of those options work for you, perhaps PC gaming isn't right for you. It's certainly not a problem with the platform, however.

Omg, this whole, that's a personal complaint, so it's not a problem with the platform logic is getting silly. If the platform doesn't work the way someone wants it to, then it's not a good platform for that person, period. In my experience, mouse and keyboard have to be used too often. As my PC is used on the tv, that's a hassle that I don't want to deal with. I'm sure that's not a big deal to many, but I'm not asking for anyone to agree.

If it's a problem for me, then it's a problem. No other metric matters to me nor should it to anyone else. We're always going to make such determinations based on our personal wants and needs. Using that logic, no one could complain about anything because they have options and other platforms to choose from. I'm not going to address you anymore if that's what you're going to keep spewing.

 

[Fess]

Now you're asking questions such as how often Issues even occur, which is silly.

I think it's a valid question if it's used as the argument why consoles are so much better. It makes a huge difference if something happens every day or once a month or once every four years. Take the desyncing of XB1 controllers, both my controllers currently desync almost every time I start the console. It's super annoying and a huge issue for me and I'd say that PS4 is a more pleasant console to use simply because of that. If it would happen once a year I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.

 

[ViolentP]

Omg, this whole, that's a personal complaint, so it's not a problem with the platform logic is getting silly. If the platform doesn't work the way someone wants it to, then it's not a good platform for that person, period. In my experience, mouse and keyboard have to be used too often. As my PC is used on the tv, that's a hassle that I don't want to deal with. I'm sure that's not a big deal to many, but I'm not asking for anyone to agree.

If it's a problem for me, then it's a problem. No other metric matters to me nor should it to anyone else. We're always going to make such determinations based on our personal wants and needs. Using that logic, no one could complain about anything because they have options and other platforms to choose from. I'm not going to address you anymore if that's what you're going to keep spewing.

I think it's funny that you and I are essentially saying the same thing but you seem to have a lot more anger about it. Listen, bub. PC gaming isn't for you. Not a big deal. No one here is trying to win you over.

 

[RichiRamjag]

I think it's a valid question if it's used as the argument why consoles are so much better. It makes a huge difference if something happens every day or once a month or once every four years. Take the desyncing of XB1 controllers, both my controllers currently desync almost every time I start the console. It's super annoying and a huge issue for me and I'd say that PS4 is a more pleasant console to use simply because of that. If it would happen once a year I wouldn't even bother mentioning it.

I don't think most people store logs of when random issues occur. If someone has experienced it enough to consider it a problem, then that's enough. Unless you're implying that we have to have X amount of issues that you agree with to consider it a problem? If your Xbox controllers desync'd so much that you said, "I'm sick of Xbox", that'd be enough for me.

I think it's funny that you and I are essentially saying the same thing but you seem to have a lot more anger about it. Listen, bub. PC gaming isn't for you. Not a big deal. No one here is trying to win you over.

I'm not angry at all. I'm sitting here by the window looking at my new succulent lol. I like you and your posts for the most part. I even hope we can play some switch sometime as you added me. I just thought that particular argument was silly. Sorry, if it came across as aggressive, I'll gladly tone it down as I wouldn't want to insult you going forward.