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[MrNyarlathotep]

COD biggest game of all time sales more onXbox 360.
How many PS3 games servers got shut down?
Gears of War has dedicated servers
Shadowrun was the first cross platform console title xbox and windows
because the ps3 web browser is any good.
Mod support for what one game? I would take indie games over PS minis it's a wash.
There have been several free games but sony wins here especially if you count ps plus
there are plenty of lan games on xbox

I think you missed my point; I'm not saying Sony has a 'superior' online service by whatever unstated intangible definition of quality the OP decided to use to assess quality.

I'm saying that XBL is - in the ways I listed - worse with a subscription fee than it could have been without.

Do you honestly think the amount of players playing any given title would not receive at least a small bump in numbers if there were no fees to play online?

Do you think publishers would be more or less open to keeping servers running if it wasn't costing them money while they see some other company making money from that online service?

You can name the number of cross platform titles on the 360 on one hand, and they were all released when MS were laughably attempting to charge PC gamers to play online; what do you think the reason is that there are no titles that are cross platform between consoles?

LAN / system link play has been massively reduced in supported titles since the original Xbox. Do you think the use of Kaillera and other tunnelling apps to provide online without fees might have affected that on its successor?

When I talk about F2P titles I am not talking about PS+ rentals or shitty Doritos advergames; I am talking about the free to play gaming space of titles like World Of Tanks, Battlefield Play4Free, TF2, etc whose business model relies on high player turnover funded by the small percentage willing to pay.
An online subscription fee just to access the title is actively harmful to their business model, so you don't get them at all.

Live being a paywall service has more costs than just the monetary subscription.

 

[StevePharma]

SEN has platinum trophies.

Platinum > 100%


Of course Sony is lacking in the online OS department compared to MS. They nailed that. I'm not a big fan of the ads on the Dashboard. Sony has them too, but they feel less intrusive.

Personally, I don't really care about cross-game chat, I only talk with friends, 99% is in game, and if that somehow isn't possible you just put on Skype or Fiber. Custom OSTs are a nice feature but I honestly never used it or would use it. Then again, I'm kinda interested how many people use these features. Probably quite a few.

I didn't expect much from PS+, but I've been a member since the beginning and the service has brought me a lot of entertainment. It even interested me in buying some DLC for games that I never would've bothered with. Sony is doing a lot of good to consumers with the service. The are buying your loyalty behind a paywall, for sure, but you can't deny that the things they offer are of minor quality.

 

[Speedymanic]

How is MS to blame for the lack of CPG? They attempted it,didn't work, so they abandoned it as any sane company whould.

Are they actively stopping devs from implementing cross platform gaming?

 

[jimi_dini]

The only innovation I can see is MS decided to charge for online. You and your friends are then locked in to a yearly plan that you don't want to change in order to justify your purchase. It's genius.

I think one of the main reasons, why Live gets defended that much (although it features ads, uses Peer2Peer most of the time, just like PS3, still people say that the connections are "better" somehow, a pain in the ass to get out of the subscription, etc.) is caused by it costing money. more expensive wine tastes better, even if it was just made more expensive by putting a huge price tag on a cheap wine..

 

[StevePharma]

I think one of the main reasons, why Live gets defended that much (although it features ads, uses Peer2Peer most of the time, just like PS3, still people say that the connections are "better" somehow, a pain in the ass to get out of the subscription, etc.) is caused by it costing money. more expensive wines taste better, even if they were just made more expensive by putting a huge price tag on a cheap wine..

I was thinking about that study too. You see this behavior on GAF all the time (even I have succumbed to it once or twice) People want satisfaction and acknowledgement for their investments in services and/or products. That's why review threads remain so popular even for titles that people already buy on day 1.

 

[CountAntonius]

I think one of the main reasons, why Live gets defended that much (although it features ads, uses Peer2Peer most of the time, just like PS3, still people say that the connections are "better" somehow, a pain in the ass to get out of the subscription, etc.) is caused by it costing money. more expensive wine tastes better, even if it was just made more expensive by putting a huge price tag on a cheap wine..

That's just insulting. Most of us have played on all consoles and PC. Some of us simply think live works better than other console offerings and is worth the price. Why is that so hard to understand?

I've owned a PS3 and have spent many hours on Steam and still pay for live cause I think it's worth it. Would I rather it be free? Like I'd rather any damn service I use be free. Obviously but do I feel like I'm being ripped off at all? Nope.

 

[Joni]

How is MS to blame for the lack of CPG? They attempted it,didn't work, so they abandoned it as any sane company whould.

Are they actively stopping devs from implementing cross platform gaming?

Yes, by limiting it to games playable on Games for Windows Live. Microsoft has a completely closed network which hinders amongst others MMO and cross-platform gaming. It is no surprise the most succesful MMO and cross-platform gameplay runs outside Xbox Live completely. (Final Fantasy XI)

 

[Patriot2]

I love how everybody is be trolled by a user with a tag of "Microsoft PR" lol

 

[jimi_dini]

That's just insulting.

No, it's a study.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

How is MS to blame for the lack of CPG? They attempted it,didn't work, so they abandoned it as any sane company whould.

Are they actively stopping devs from implementing cross platform gaming?

Yes, MS are actively preventing developers implementing cross platform play between the PS3 and the 360 because they believe (correctly I think) that people would complain of getting the same experience for free on one console and not the other.

 

[Speedymanic]

Yes, by limiting it to games playable on Games for Windows Live. Microsoft has a completely closed network which hinders amongst others MMO and cross-platform gaming. It is no surprise the most succesful MMO and cross-platform gameplay runs outside Xbox Live completely. (Final Fantasy XI)

That's not what I asked. I asked if Ms were stopped cross platform gaming, if it works through GFWL, then they aren't.

Is it a surprise that MS would want to push CPG through their own network?

Yes, MS are actively preventing developers implementing cross platform play between the PS3 and the 360 because they believe (correctly I think) that people would complain of getting the same experience for free on one console and not the other.

I assume you have examples?

I can understand why they wouldn't allow it between PS3 and 360, seems a silly comparison to bring up as I doubt Sony would be pleased if CPG between the two consoles was allowed, it would only serve to show just how poor their service is in comparison.

 

[Metalmurphy]

That's not what I asked. I asked if Ms were stopped cross platform gaming, if it works through GFWL, then they aren't.

Are you serious? "No I won't let you do what you want, but you can do this on our terms only" is pretty much the same as actively blocking them.

I assume you have examples?

Portal comes to mind.

I doubt Sony would be pleased if CPG between the two consoles was allowed, it would only serve to show just how poor their service is in comparison.

By playing the same game with the same features only... for free? How terrible they would have looked.

Also... lol.

 

[magicaltrevor]

And this is why Sony should kill SCEJ with napalm and nukes and give PSN and FW development to someone competent.

Don't count on it. It's still a very Japanese company.

But perhaps Kaz Hirai will shake things up a bit.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I think you missed my point; I'm not saying Sony has a 'superior' online service by whatever unstated intangible definition of quality the OP decided to use to assess quality.

I'm saying that XBL is - in the ways I listed - worse with a subscription fee than it could have been without.

Do you honestly think the amount of players playing any given title would not receive at least a small bump in numbers if there were no fees to play online?

I'm sure you remember Battlefield 1943. Remember when it launched that they had a mini contest that a new map was going to unlock at 43 million kills? Well, the pay to play service hit that mark about twice as fast as the free service. Every one of those 43 kills on XBL was behind a paywall.

 

[Speedymanic]

Are you serious? "No I won't let you do what you want, but you can do this on our terms only" is pretty much the same as actively blocking them.

That's how a closed network works.

Portal comes to mind.

CPG on PS3 didn't amount to much, same goes for Steamworks. While it's good to have options, it's pointless in the long term if they aren't utilized to any significant degree.

By playing the same game with the same features only... for free? How terrible they would have looked.

Debatable.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Ehh looking at things simply, I can still choose not to pay a ridiculously extortionate subscription on PS3. I can, but I get EXTRA stuff. The BASICS are not limited like they are on 360.

 

[SnowHawk]

I missed this earlier and I was rushing, but did you just compare PS+ to Online?

Good Lord. The services aren't comparable in the least. And what 'hella recent' games are available through playpack? I can't seem to find any that aren't at least 3-6months old, with the majority of them being really old titles.

It's actually prertty simple how devs make money from games in the playpack bundle, you're not stupid, so I'll let you figure out how relatively old titles can make their devs money through playpack, which just so happens to be double the price of PS+.

I thought your F2P comparison was laughable, but got damn son, you just to continue to deliver the laughs.

As for my points, I'm thinking long term. It's easy to dismiss the potential damage now, but as with most things, we'll only really know the damage or potential benefit in a year or so.

You do realise that the fee games are only free for a month?

 

[BruiserBear]

I think one of the main reasons, why Live gets defended that much (although it features ads, uses Peer2Peer most of the time, just like PS3, still people say that the connections are "better" somehow, a pain in the ass to get out of the subscription, etc.) is caused by it costing money. more expensive wine tastes better, even if it was just made more expensive by putting a huge price tag on a cheap wine..

and you would be wrong.

Example: back in the day I bought COD4 for both the PS3 and 360. I had way more issues playing that game on the PS3 than I ever did on the 360. Server timing out, sudden ending of matches, more lag, more people glitching, etc, etc.

That was literally the game that convinced me of the fact that Microsoft is doing more behind the scenes that makes these games run better online. I also experienced similar things with other games, but COD4 was the big one.

 

[rCIZZLE]

I'm sure you remember Battlefield 1943. Remember when it launched that they had a mini contest that a new map was going to unlock at 43 million kills? Well, the pay to play service hit that mark about twice as fast as the free service. Every one of those 43 kills on XBL was behind a paywall.

I don't think you understand what he's getting at.

 

[tzare]

Example: i've had serious lag issues with gow 1&2 and splinter cell conviction online modes, however i've had smooth experiences playing uncharted 2 or motorstorm apocalypse. Is that proof of one service being better than the other considering those are system's exclusives?

 

[ScreenSplitter]

All I remember is, Left 4 Dead 2 on the Xbox 360 made me cry how bad it was. The lag, the servers... I was paying to be miserable.

 

[Jburton]

and you would be wrong.

Example: back in the day I bought COD4 for both the PS3 and 360. I had way more issues playing that game on the PS3 than I ever did on the 360. Server timing out, sudden ending of matches, more lag, more people glitching, etc, etc.

That was literally the game that convinced me of the fact that Microsoft is doing more behind the scenes that makes these games run better online. I also experienced similar things with other games, but COD4 was the big one.

Your personal experience does not make your point of view gospel.

I have had less issues on PSN (excluding the hack downtime) ... and never enough to believe that what I have had to pay for live was obvious in the quality of service delivered.

Cross party chat is a firmware feature not a result of paying for live.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Has anyone mentioned PS Home because XBL doesn't have it and it is awesome right guys?....guys?

 

[fluffydelusions]

All I remember is, Left 4 Dead 2 on the Xbox 360 made me cry how bad it was. The lag, the servers... I was paying to be miserable.

Everyone knows Valve games are best served on PC

 

[U2NUMB]

Couple things play into it for me and my core friends. We all have a 360 and PS3 and will at times play online games on the PS3 but 90% of our time online and with games that are not exclusive we just default to the 360. Mostly due to us liking the 360 controller for shooters over PS3.

But when we do play a PS3 game online we actually all fire up our 360s just to enter party chat. Not ideal but it is also just something we are used to and we can communicate with anyone who has not turned on their PS3 yet.

Also I was just thinking that we have all invested in expensive headsets on the 360 so that sort of pushes us to that platform for all games we might play online.

We all like both systems it just seems that we gravitate towards the 360 for most games.

I should point out that I am the only one in the group who has a PS Plus account at the moment.

 

[nib95]

That OP user tag, wut.

Anyway, I don't know that it is any more. All relative I suppose.

 

[Metalmurphy]

That's how a closed network works.

And that's why they suck. Give power to the developer not the console company.

CPG on PS3 didn't amount to much, same goes for Steamworks. While it's good to have options, it's pointless in the long term if they aren't utilized to any significant degree.

It didn't amount to much? It was there. What more did you exactly want? Your dismissing stuff with basically... nothing. "Yeah it was there, but wtv."

Debatable.

Again... Why don't you just debate it then.

 

[Hanmik]

Debatable.

How come you are the only one, in this thread, that is entitled to say debatable..? when someone says that your OP is debatable, you freak out and go completely into defense mode..?

 

[NIGHT-]

Its funny, all I ever hear is people talking shit about download speeds on the PS3, yet its always been my fastest downloading device.

That's nice. It's fucking horrible on my end. I swear I download faster through my Wii on wifi than my PS3 wired... Fucking Sony...

Has anyone mentioned PS Home because XBL doesn't have it and it is awesome right guys?....guys?

People still talk about Home? I thought it was like MOVE and all support was dropped after the first 6 months?

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Everyone knows Valve games are best served on PC

Of course, and y'know what? Bought it on my PC. No lag, no sub costs, free DLC. Fuck you MS.

 

[Combichristoffersen]

That's nice. It's fucking horrible on my end. I swear I download faster through my Wii on wifi than my PS3 wired... Fucking Sony...

People still talk about Home? I thought it was like MOVE and all support was dropped after the first 6 months?

Download speeds on PS3 tend to vary for me. I think the shitty download speeds are due to Sony having less servers/server clusters running than MS, and they're spread wider apart.

People don't talk much about it, and I doubt a lot of people on GAF care about it, but it's supposedly profitable for Sony, so it keeps chugging along.

 

[Metalmurphy]

People still talk about Home? I thought it was like MOVE and all support was dropped after the first 6 months?

It's continuously updated and continuously filled with people and is a source of income for Sony.

Seriously just try to login, every space of every server has at least 20 people in it. Home is a success, it's just not for us.

 

[NIGHT-]

It's continuously updated and continuously filled with people and is a source of income for Sony.

Seriously just try to login, every space of every server has at least 20 people in it. Home is a success, it's just not for us.

Seems just like another lost vision for Sony. They had an idea and just didn't know where they wanted to take it.

 

[Speedymanic]

You do realise that the fee games are only free for a month?

Nope, all 'free' games are playable until you stop subscribing. I know because I used to subscribe.

How come you are the only one, in this thread, that is entitled to say debatable..? when someone says that your OP is debatable, you freak out and go completely into defense mode..?

I freaked out? Where?

 

[Joni]

You do realise that the free games are only free for a month?

No, they aren't. They are free as long as you have plus. I still have one year old Plus games on my PS3. They're available to download for one month free of charge, after that you can't download them free if you hadn't downloaded them at the start.

 

[Speedymanic]

And that's why they suck. Give power to the developer not the console company.

I agree.

It didn't amount to much? It was there. What more did you exactly want? Your dismissing stuff with basically... nothing. "Yeah it was there, but wtv."

Updates as regularly as those on PC through SW, large updates such as the level designer released on PS3 though SW, etc, etc.

Again... Why don't you just debate it then.

Because I have, numerous times. It's tiring tread the same ground.

 

[ScreenSplitter]

All I know is, if both Nintendo and Sony have free multiplayer as an option next gen and MS is still charging for it, they're going to look mighty stupid.

 

[NIGHT-]

All I know is, if both Nintendo and Sony have free multiplayer as an option next gen and MS is still charging for it, they're going to look mighty stupid.

If anything, I see Sony putting more focus into charging for online. They need to make more profits somewhere. They probably are noticing how well it's working for MS. And no one gives a fuck about what Nintendo does for online, considering they are always about 5 years behind

 

[Metalmurphy]

Updates as regularly as those on PC through SW, large updates such as the level designer released on PS3 though SW, etc, etc.

What does any of that have to do with Cross Platform Play? Your talking about Steamworks integration on the PS3 version, not Cross Platform Play

 

[The_Monk]

To me, the internet on 360 sure feels simple.

Here's my very strange story:

I'm a main PS3 user and I have a 360 almost for their exclusives.

Lately I've been having some internet problems, random disconnects on games on my PS3 and random disconnects happening on my Laptops. After more than 10 workers coming to my house trying to solve the problem by checking and changing my modem/router/cables and checking the connection from my house I gave up. I had 10MB internet.

Now, I have 30MB with fiber optic and another internet provided. This thing is fast. However I discover another problem:
This internet provider + Playstation 3 + Any Call of Duty Game or online Multiplayer game = Forget it.
It just won't happen. Here's what happen: I connect my PS3, insert a online Online and start playing. No lag, no problems. BUT after 30/40 minutes I loose my connection to my PS3 and my other PC's. It still says I'm online, I still have my friends showing, however if I click on the PS Button and try to go back my PS3 takes forever to get back in the game. And if I try to click on my PSN ID to check trophies it will give me an error. I need to restart my PS3. I gave up. It's very sad. I, and a lot of other technicians did everything... DMZ, firewall disabled, port forwarding, manual IP, you name it. It was done everything. The problem won't go! It's a wired connection btw. (It's so sad...)

Since I didn't have any online game on my 360, I went and got a cheap game to play some online matches. I put my Password and chosen my wifi connection. Tried the game and...

Not a single disconnect. Not one. Not from my 360, or my Laptops. Always on. I did nothing only put my game and play away.

Anyone have a clue? I bet there's no clue left since I and all others did everything possible. All I know is, from now on, 360 gets my online experience and probably I'll start playing more on it even for Single-Player Games.

 

[DragonSworne]

I have honestly never played a game online for PS3.

While I do connect to PSN to download games and demos, I buy my multiplayer games on 360 because I pay for XboxLive.

I try not to see what PS3 offers because it would make me feel bad. All my friends are on Live, so I can't just up and move services.

 

[Speedymanic]

What does any of that have to do with Cross Platform Play? Your talking about Steamworks integration on the PS3 version, not Cross Platform Play

Apologies, I was busyi doing other stuff and for some reason I thought we were talking about SW. CPG in Portal is pretty much pointless for the simple fact that it's one co-op mode, which I'd be very surprised if anyone was still playing.

Something like Shadowrun 360/PC is what I consider CPG. if you consider Portal 2 one co-op mode a good example of CPG, fair enough. I don't.

 

[SnowHawk]

Nope, all 'free' games are playable until you stop subscribing. I know because I used to subscribe.



I freaked out? Where?

No, they aren't. They are free as long as you have plus. I still have one year old Plus games on my PS3. They're available to download for one month free of charge, after that you can't download them free if you hadn't downloaded them at the start.

You missed my point. I wasn't talking about ownership but the deal, they are free for one month till the next PS+ update

 

[sechsterangriff]

I don't think there's PSN+ on Vita.

There is, but the only Vita game that had a PSN+ discount was the Michael Jackson game. And that was just in Europe I think.

 

[KageMaru]

The OP was just asking for trouble by creating this thread.

Both services have their own set of advantages and drawbacks. I also think you'll have a hard time arguing the service is better in some other countries around the world that lack all of the features.

 

[RedNumberFive]

I had a feeling this was going to be a Speedymanic thread. Keep fighting the good fight!

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Is it a surprise that MS would want to push CPG through their own network?

It's no surprise at all.

Is it a surprise that as a games player and not a MS shareholder I find it annoying that this option is taken away for vertical integration reasons?

I assume you have examples?

I can understand why they wouldn't allow it between PS3 and 360, seems a silly comparison to bring up as I doubt Sony would be pleased if CPG between the two consoles was allowed, it would only serve to show just how poor their service is in comparison.

Speak to any developer who has released a multiplatform title; they would all love to support cross platform play, but the manufacturer with the largest online user base refuses to allow any service access to their closed network, so they can't.

The reason you can't play Streetfighter 4 (or whatever) PS3 vs 360 is Microsofts paywall.

By playing the same game with the same features only... for free? How terrible they would have looked.

Also... lol.

Bu-bu-but cross game party chat

I'm sure you remember Battlefield 1943. Remember when it launched that they had a mini contest that a new map was going to unlock at 43 million kills? Well, the pay to play service hit that mark about twice as fast as the free service. Every one of those 43 kills on XBL was behind a paywall.

My contention isn't that the 360 has a lot of people who pay for gold.

My contention is - using your example - that number would have been hit faster if Live cost nothing to play online.

Debatable.

The only thing I can think of would be the limited exclusivity of things like COD map packs, where you fragment a userbase on platform grounds, or I guess a bad port on the PS3 offering some minor technical advantage in a game to 360 owners over PS3 owners.

What are the things you are (not actually) debating about that statement?

 

[Curufinwe]

Its funny, all I ever hear is people talking shit about download speeds on the PS3, yet its always been my fastest downloading device.

I always get good download speeds on my PS3, although that doesn't help when the demo of House of the Dead 4 is only available to PS+ members. Locking demos behind a permanent pay wall is bullshit.

 

[GraveRobberX]

Apologies, I was busy doing other stuff and for some reason I thought we were talking about SW. CPG in Portal is pretty much pointless for the simple fact that it's one co-op mode, which I'd be very surprised if anyone was still playing.

Something like Shadowrun 360/PC is what I consider CPG. if you consider Portal 2 one co-op mode a good example of CPG, fair enough. I don't.

So what you are really are trying to say:

"Sorry I was busy being the PR machine that I am, I thought you were talking about something else, so, yeah that game that has the feature and you called me out on it, well yeah it's just a mode, hell I don't think anyone is even playing it, LOL.
You know what I consider the main aspect of the argument, a game that is exclusive to my platform, because it's my platform of choice, the game you chose is cool, but your opinion is flawed, if you consider it somehow but in my reality you are mad, flawed perhaps."

Stop spinning and weaving your little tactics to get a rise or try to brush it off, when you got owned multiple times

Just let it go, does it really matter why your shit is hot and fresh, and the rest are cold and busted

 

[Hanmik]

I always get good download speeds on my PS3, although that doesn't help when the demo of House of the Dead 4 is only available to PS+ members. Locking demos behind a permanent pay wall is bullshit.

isn´t that the same for XBLive..? you have to have gold to download most of the demos, if you have silver you need to wait..?