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Why not let the Southern US be its own country?
- Thread starter OrangeGrayBlue
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The problem with this is that there are conservative and liberals in every state. Just because a state is liberal doesn't mean that almost close to half the population isn't conservative. Same goes for conservative states and liberal citizens. The country may be split down the middle in terms of parties, but the states don't geographically split ideologically down the middle that way.
Imagine how angry all the northern conservatives would be over this? Or how angry all the southern liberals would be? You expect these millions of people to uproot and all switch geographical locations to fit with the new divided liberal north and conservative south?
So even in a practical sense it's not realsitic. And again, you have to realize how many conservatives are in the north and liberals in the south. It's a lot. And this isn't even getting into the issues of how the country depends on these these states for economic power. And then the issue of military/foreign issues.
Imagine how angry all the northern conservatives would be over this? Or how angry all the southern liberals would be? You expect these millions of people to uproot and all switch geographical locations to fit with the new divided liberal north and conservative south?
So even in a practical sense it's not realsitic. And again, you have to realize how many conservatives are in the north and liberals in the south. It's a lot. And this isn't even getting into the issues of how the country depends on these these states for economic power. And then the issue of military/foreign issues.
Not when all the scientists run out of Houston faster than Jesse Owens.
crazygambit
Member
I was just gonna say money, but this works too.
Alligatorjandro
Banned
Ban California
But we do wear cowboy hats and boots like the movies.
And even imagining for a moment that the regions are split by such extreme ideologies as the OP seems to suggest... Which they aren't in reality... Then it seems odd to suggest that one or the other would be undoubtedly doomed to fail or succeed. He and others seem to think that the South in such a scenario would up and die, and that's horribly ignorant given the growing economies there.
Red Mage
Member
Stop listening to your gut, it's an idiot.
It would not turn into a Theocracy, any more than the North would turn into a Communist Regime. Both sides are active in the character assassination of their opponents, so I don't see how that is supposed to be used as evidence. Aside from this, the majority of people on both sides don't want secession.
Besides the economic impact already mentioned multiple times, there would be significant cultural and political turmoil, both domestic and international, as well as significant military implications, from loss of strategic ports and bases to new border vulnerability concerns (what if "The South" formed military pacts with, say, Russia or China?), a loss of a large portion of our recruiting pool for troops ("The South" contributes a disproportionate percentage of new recruits) and so on.
Correct
Correct
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Baldeaglecrying.jpg
Dragonborn
Member
Isn't the only reason the Republicans have any power due to insignificant little districts full of ignorant people? I really feel it should all just be a popular vote, the majority wins. If small, backwards nobody towns get screwed then so be it.
Aaron Strife
Banned
The distorted for population one looks like Spider-Man jizzingColoring states is sort of silly though. We only think that way because we have the Electoral College but the Electoral College is stupid. We should at least consider counties.
(distorted for population
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/election/2012/
This.
captive said:
Losing the Dallas airport and the Atlanta one would hurt as well. Atlanta one is busiest in the country (maybe world?). Cruise ships leaving Florida, vacations to Florida would likely be more expensive from everyone from the north, etc.
Red Mage
Member
You realize that if was how it worked, we'd probably still have legal segregation, right?
Mr Fahrenheit
Member
We should just let California secede so they can be the perfect Utopia they think they could be without the rest of us, then we can bring in Puerto Rico.
Born and raised in Tallahassee haha. We're the resident college town though so it's not too bad.
When you look at this map does it really seem as if Republicans only have power in insignificant districts?
Usually more urban areas tend to lean to the left despite whether or not they are in the North or South. Rural areas tend to lean right which is why massive swathes of middle America is Republican controlled.
Dragonborn
Member
That's right, and a lot of the population is In those Urban areas, no? That seems to be growing too, though I'm not 100% sure about that.
I just don't get why anyone would vote for the current republican party, it just boggles my mind (Well, I do get it but the reasons are so stupid). And this doesn't mean democrats are saints either, far from it. Just the lesser of two evils
I'm not entirely sure, wpuld you explain?
Good grief man, could you be any more insulting? As if anyone who disagrees with your point of view is some ignorant racist redneck not worthy of life.
You can locate every major city in Texas by following the blue.
And this is why the electoral college exists, so that "insignificant" states have a say.
Dragonborn
Member
That's not what I said though. Urban centers with much, much great populations should have more power and sway, especially as they keep being bigger and bigger.
Also, you're throwing my comment way out of proportion here. I'm not saying anyone who disagrees with me deserves death, just that a lot of the Republican's is born out of ignorance which I don't think anyone will deny. The Republican party of old, is dead for now and I can only hope it returns one day.
The electoral college is a joke
Captive: A true fighter for the common man.
Cybrwzrd
Banned
Well - if two wolves and a sheep are voting on a dinner menu, the sheep would be better off by taking its ball and running instead of hanging around to vote...
That is why Democracy is a terrible system. Majority rule is never a good idea. That is why we are a representative republic and why the electoral college exists.
The system is breaking down now due to democracy - and the abuse of it through gerrymandering by those with power.
No, you said quote "insignificant little districts full of ignorant people" so you've just called anyone that disagrees with your point of view as ignorant.
However, you can find ignorant democrats as well. Just go look for videos titled "Obama's going to pay my rent" and other stupid shit like that.
Did you have a point against something I said or were you just going to mock me?
As part of the grand division, the United States would gladly allow you, and any new republics formed in the aftermath, access to the arsenal.
ShooterMcGavin
Member
Having a country basically forced to believe and practice one ideology. Something tells me that wouldn't end well...
You think modern day gerrymandering is bad? (it is). Watch what would happen with this.
You think modern day gerrymandering is bad? (it is). Watch what would happen with this.
Chezzymann
Member
I think both 'countries' economies would go down the shitter if that happened.
I can't help but compare this to Quebec's past.
I wonder just how many southerners would choose to form their own country if a referendum was held. You have to keep in mind that strong opinion can be extremely influential. A referendum decision would heavily based on cultural, religious, and political ideals. Seems to me the south is heavily influenced by this.
If you base a referendum platform in being pro-south, pro-christian, pro-conservative, anti-liberal, anti-Obama you just might be surprised just how much support the idea would get. Convince people that a referendum no vote is anti-south pro-Obama, definitely a highly plausible strategy, and referendum voting follows political voting very closely.
I wonder just how many southerners would choose to form their own country if a referendum was held. You have to keep in mind that strong opinion can be extremely influential. A referendum decision would heavily based on cultural, religious, and political ideals. Seems to me the south is heavily influenced by this.
If you base a referendum platform in being pro-south, pro-christian, pro-conservative, anti-liberal, anti-Obama you just might be surprised just how much support the idea would get. Convince people that a referendum no vote is anti-south pro-Obama, definitely a highly plausible strategy, and referendum voting follows political voting very closely.
You aren't kidding. New Orleans went >80% for Obama in 2012. If the North ever wants an island playground/port city at the mouth of the river, we'd willingly come along.
Dragonborn
Member
Of course we can find ignorance everywhere but are You really tellibg me the republican base isn't mostly the rich and ignorant. Why would people vote against their best interests? Ignorance. just look at the policies these guys try pushing.
And as I said, democrats aren't saints either but I'll take them over the crazy right any day. I also firmly believe that anyone who gives people like Palin, Cruz, and Bachmann power are entrenched in ignorance because I just don't see how else anyone would vote for those lunatics.
Arrogant Bastard
Banned
If we went by popular vote, they would still have a say. 1 vote, 1 vote.
As it stands now my vote is insignificant because I live in the 'wrong' state.
Red Mage
Member
If the system was basically "winner takes all" then we probably never have gotten rid of segregation when we did, among other things. Heck, the reason the Senate was originally elected by the State Governments was to keep the country from having mood whiplash like crazy.
theusedversion
Member
I just did a quick count on the GDP of states and the red states make up 33% of the economy so they wouldn't be poor by any means. The blue state's gas would probably increase significantly with losing Texas and Alaska. Plus most of the fracking is done in the red states. So energy would be an issue for the blue states. Food prices would increase for the blue states since they would be losing the entire midwest. The big problem is that you end up dividing the north in two because you have red states in between. The red states would lose important port cities. That would be a big loss. It's interesting to think about.
Earthstrike
Member
Fuck that. If one were to consider Canada acting as a state we'd be leading along with new york and California. A Canada with the northern U.S.A would be some next level shit.
Admiral Woofington
Member
Sounds to me like OP wants us to GTFO but is doing the whole Inception crap of pretending it was our idea.
"No no it's not that I want you to leave, but come on you'd be happier right?"
"No no it's not that I want you to leave, but come on you'd be happier right?"
RockTurtle
Member
is this some sort of extreme far left liberal fan fiction?
MWS Natural
Member
No thanks, I'd rather not bring back slavery to the US.
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