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Why Russians Hate Company of Heroes 2
- Thread starter kazebyaka
- Start date
Chairmanchuck
Member
I would say no German really cares about that, because they know that the majority of Nazis, even if they just followed orders, were following a bad ideology.
The facts: Soviet Union was an imperialist, racist, nationalist, murderous, barbaric, communist, cruel regime which did in fact militarilly invade, occupy, subjucade and murder people belonging in other nationalities and even its own.
They commited a shitload of attrocities and were one of the aggressors of WW2.
However the Nazis were extraordinarilly racist, extraordinarilly barbaric and had they won, the fate of eastern europeans and Russians would be unimaginably terrible indeed. Of course when it comes to places like Poland both the Soviets and the nazis fucked with them.
To make it simple the allies were gray, Soviets were black with a little gray and the nazis was pitch black. Some of the cruelest scum to walk the earth especially when it comes towards not Germans.
Soviet Union does not deserve white washing, its victims certainly deserve more than that. Nevertheless the people who died fighting against the Germans, especially people in the Soviet union payed a big blood price also need their role to be awknowledged.
They commited a shitload of attrocities and were one of the aggressors of WW2.
However the Nazis were extraordinarilly racist, extraordinarilly barbaric and had they won, the fate of eastern europeans and Russians would be unimaginably terrible indeed. Of course when it comes to places like Poland both the Soviets and the nazis fucked with them.
To make it simple the allies were gray, Soviets were black with a little gray and the nazis was pitch black. Some of the cruelest scum to walk the earth especially when it comes towards not Germans.
Soviet Union does not deserve white washing, its victims certainly deserve more than that. Nevertheless the people who died fighting against the Germans, especially people in the Soviet union payed a big blood price also need their role to be awknowledged.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Except that it worked in the USSR from 1920 - 1956. Except it worked in Vietnam. Except it worked in Cuba. Except it worked in China.
Cuba has an incredibly impressive social system. Envious, almost. Majority of people are politically aware, they do not tolerate racism, Cuba manages its entire economy without exploitation, free high quality education, free high quality healthcare, excellent community and social togetherness.
We live in Total systems everywhere in which power is vested in the authority of the State.
Parliamentarism is no more or less democratic than the Soviet system. In both systems we vote for local government, and the parties on a national level push the candidates that they've approved of internally and then we get to "vote" on someone who may represent us at some point in time.
The idea that Hitler and Stalin personally shot people is as silly as the idea that Truman personally dropped the bombs on Japan.
No they haven't. The civil unrest in Germany in the 60s and 70s was because America literally put the Nazi's back into power. The German state has supported fascists since WW2. The Balkan genocide in the 90s was a direct result of Germany, Britain, and the US arming Fascist paramilitaries and sending them to fight Socialist Slavs and Muslims. Yugoslavia was a largely peaceful Communist country without a scandalous history, but because of their political alignment the West endorsed genocide against them.
The Russian people approved nothing. Kruschev had a hand is as much of the terribleness as anyone in the 40s yet brushed his crimes under the rug by placing them solely at the feet of Stalin and Beria. Beria begins a campaign of political asylum and liberalization and suddenly Kruschev has him executed. Yeltsin would have said anything to finalize his plan to sell out Russia to his friends.
Russians more and more approve of Stalin's programs because the historical fact that he made life better for an overwhelming majority without the massive issues of crime, poverty, drug abuse, joblessness, and corruption that modern Russia faces.
No one asks Americans to denounce our system and leaders even though we have a murderous and genocidal past. Why the double standard?
There are two funny sayings from my Eastern European friends.
The Communist Horde was terrible. They invaded and left hospitals, schools, and industry in their wake.
Not everything the Communists told us about Communism was true. Sadly, everything they told us about Capitalism was.
I really feel it should be the same way in Russia, at least to some degree. Instead, most people are severely misinformed about what the USSR was exactly and why it's a very shameful part of Russian history (and only a smallish part of it is about Stalin, mind you). That's of course due to how perestroika was carried out and because it was never completed, in a sense.
I am German and I care about it. I'm not talking about Nazi's being portrayed as the bad guys, that's expected and respected. I can only speak for myself and some of my friends but, most WW2 games make no distinction between the Nazi Party, SS, Wehrmacht and civilians whatsoever. They are all lumped into the Nazi/SS category so you don't have to feel bad about killing thousands of people's parents and relatives.
I know, they are just games, but when the number of games without tact outweigh the ones with tact 1000:1 it starts to get a little tiring.
Sure; except the developers specifically claimed it was historically accurate.
What I posted and what Relic claimed are not mutually exclusive. CoH2 is not an academic peer reviewed piece of historical research of the Eastern Front. It's a piece of entertainment based in accurate historical works of the time and uses some of the most resonanting features of each party involved as game play mechanics.
..... uhmm no this kid doesn't even know his nation history in first place. Probably because people are still thought in school about amazing Red Army in WW2.
NKVD killing deserters was real thing. Those civilian loses and soldier loses was mainly due their tactic where "charge" was normal.
He does have points about for example burning houses with civilians but most of the time this kid is simply uneducated or fed with false history.
Probably he doesn't know that USSR along with Nazis started WW2 (they attacked poland 17 days after Hitler) and with Ribbentrop-Molotov pact they partitioned poland and take other countries from east side of Poland like Lithuania.
Could you please elaborate on that a bit more, I'd love to hear how the USSR was a shining example of communism. How about North Korea too?
Another example of socialist utopia. I guess all these Cubans going through the waters of the Florida Straits on homemade rafts and boats must be nuts then. Why would they risk their lives to get out of cuba and into the US? Poor misguided fools, someone should explain to them how awful capitalism is.
Well, you'd be right if it weren't for one tiny little detail - rejection of political pluralism in communism. In the USSR there was only one legal, ruling political party. Cuba and China? Same thing, single-party countries. No diversity, no choice, no freedom.
Nobody said that. But I do agree with you, because Stalin and Hitler were not alone, they had a large following of people as passionate and genuine about their beliefs as these self-proclaimed Leaders/Dictators of the People. While Germans have, rightly, castigated themselves as a nation for their collective sins during the Nazi era, are Russians collectively any less responsible for Stalins war crimes? That's what really boggles my mind, because so many people suffered under the terror and repressions of the Stalin period, so many were wrongly convicted, many killed(both Russians and citizens of their former satellite states) and yet surveys conducted in the past years show up to almost 50% of Russians agreeing that Stalin had a positive role in the life of their country. Russians already know that Stalin was a tyrant and a murderer but the way I see it their attitude toward him is dictated more by anti-Western rhetoric in Russian society then historical facts - like the idea that the West is trying to deprive them of their glory and minimize their role in the victory over Germany, and arguably I can actually understand that.
Oh, and I thought the civil unrest in Germany in the 60's was because East Germany sealed itself off behind walls, chained fences, barbed wires and minefields to prevent the massive emigration and defection of people from the authoritarian communist Eastern Bloc.
Maybe you should read up on that a bit more. An investigation by a Slovenian team of journalists from 2012 revealed that many countries - including Russia, which had voted for the arms embargo imposed by the United Nations Security Council, were actively involved in violating it. Shamefully also Polish ex-military intelligence service officers were participating in arms smuggling to the affected conflict zones. German bankers were providing financing through proxy companies, russian oligarchs and ex-KGB officials were selling vast quantities of weapons(including hundreds of anti-aircraft and anti-armour missiles), Brittish company Racal delivered military communications equipment shortly before Slovenia broke off from Yugoslavia, but somehow I cannot find informations regarding the US arming Fascist paramilitaries, nope. In the end lets not forget that these were illegal operations conducted by arms smugglers and shady businessman, not by Governments.
Oh yes, he made life better for an 'overwhelming' majority just as Hitler did. All it took was to get rid of all the unwanted ones like jewish people, gypsies, homosexuals, criples, etc. and pretty much everybody else who didn't fit into his worldview. It was Stalin afterall who said "Death is the solution to all problems. No man - no problem".
I'm from Eastern Europe and have never ever heard something as ridiculous as what you just wrote.
The only things Soviets left in my country were KGB agents, outdated weaponry and run-down military bases. There were schools, hospitals and industry long before the Wehrmacht and Red Army marched into Poland.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Access to hospitals, education, housing, land and, outside of famine and war, quality of life in Eastern Europe rose exponentially until the 70s when, like the rest of the world, they started facing economic problems.
What's the point in bringing up North Korea? Does Somalia's existence mean the rest of the non socialist world is also terrible?
You mean like how Haitians, Mexicans, Colombians, Peruvians, etc also illegally immigrate from capitalist countries into the USA?
We don't have much pluralism in the USA either. Any candidate not vetted by big business has no chance of entering national politics.
Why should they? The USSR's political ideology didn't exist around racial superiority and the extermination of "lesser" people. The USSR's war crimes are similar to the British, French, or the US and no one expects them to apologize.
It's almost like they're not letting foreign politics influence what they personally experienced in their own country. I wonder why that could be.
Why would there be civil unrest in West Germany over East Germany building the wall?
The West supported and armed Croatian fascists during the Balkan wars. It's pretty easy information to find.
???
The USSR didn't have a policy of active discrimination against any of those groups. Homosexuality was taboo, but it was so everywhere in the 40s.
Stalin never said that.
Poland was a feudal, agrarian state before the 1920s. It had no industry and little of everything else.
i have only watched a few minutes. after reading this thread, i have to agree with what some posters already said: that the red army is made to look like assholes, while coh1 had real "heroes" is actually his maincomplaint. the historical inaccuracies is problematic but this isn't the real problem on hand.
not having played any of those games, take my opinion with a grain of salt. anyway: relic should hire someone who speaks german if they're trying to use german "sentences".
i couldn't find the quote but there was someone in this thread who said something along the lines of "americans wouldn't react that way if they wouldn't be portrait as the heroes in ww2" to which i have to say: LOL
not having played any of those games, take my opinion with a grain of salt. anyway: relic should hire someone who speaks german if they're trying to use german "sentences".
i couldn't find the quote but there was someone in this thread who said something along the lines of "americans wouldn't react that way if they wouldn't be portrait as the heroes in ww2" to which i have to say: LOL
you don't know much about german history if you believe this. but if it's any consolation for you turning a blind eye on the nazi backrounds of some high politicians, judges etc. was only one of the reasons for the unrest and later terroristic acts in germany. so Zuhzuhzombie!! isn't 100% correct on this one. the building of the wall on the other hand, wasn't one of the reasons.
i'm not sure if i understood you correctly, so please clarify.
All substandard. Shitty housing, mediocre healthcare, good education in physics & maths but godawful in humanities and everything else. No real access to land, either. That's about the USSR, of course.
Politics simply didn't exist in the USSR, you know. Not just absence of pluralism — absence of any parties, organisations or whatever. They all were replaced by multiple pseudo-organizations that had the same names, but in reality didn't function at all.
That's not really a valid statement. As I said, people are mostly misinformed on the matter of Stalin, the USSR and so on. It is usually the most uneducated and unfortunate who feel that way.
That's incorrect. Homosexuality was a felony in the USSR and about a thousand people went to prison for it (sentences were up to 5 years in prison) in 1930-1980, less with each year up to 1992 when it was abolished. Jews, not so much oppression. Stalin began a process of relocating the entire Jewish population to a distant region in the Far East, but he didn't get to finish it. After that, Jews were a bit limited in their opportunities, but were more or less alright otherwise.
That's true. The quote is actually from a book in which Stalin says it. However, he never did it in reality (or at least it wasn't recorded). But he totally acted that way.
Stalin did one thing that mattered: he ruined Russian agriculture. This cannot be stressed enough: by implementing his half-baked collectivization program he destroyed the agriculture of the Russian Empire, that was Europe's biggest grain exporter, for good. From that point onwards, USSR had to import its grain, because it could never produce nearly enough. Well, it was pretty shaken after the civil war already, because of dekulakization and whatnot, but it was collectivization that dealt the final blow the poor Russian farmers never recovered from. Now that's Stalin for you.
The fact that the USSR had to import most of its grain meant that they had to export something and the only thing they even could export was oil, because no-one needed the sub-standard production of their civilian factories and they weren't about to sell their precious military technology. They had oil though, thanks to a newly (and very conveniently) discovered oil reservoir.
So they sold oil, bought grain for the money, built their impressive weaponry and spent huge resources on pointless planned production, shitty housing and all those gigantic ridiculous bureaucratic machines for forty years after the war and then the oil prices suddenly plummeted ultimately bringing the Soviet Union down with them. That's all what was USSR was ever about and thank God the oil prices plummeted when they did.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Excuse me. That was hyperbole. I'll go back and re word it.
Sotijalo Hurmerinta
Banned
Its a good thing the Russians/USSR are for once portrayed for what they were. Imperialist, enslaving horde of barbarians prisoning the whole of Eastern Europe to their racist antisemitic red-fascist ideology.
The recovery from that communist occupation will sadly take decades. Everyone who has any contacts in post soviet or post socialist satellites knows this.
The simple truth is that Russians have absolutely NO friends among their neighbours is a testament to this. Finns, Estonians, Poles, Ukranians would rather die then befriend or subjugate to Russians. Of course the revisionist nationalistic Russians are so detached from reality they only know of the official chauvinistic Glorious War to defend the Motherland. a tragedy of ignorance really
The recovery from that communist occupation will sadly take decades. Everyone who has any contacts in post soviet or post socialist satellites knows this.
The simple truth is that Russians have absolutely NO friends among their neighbours is a testament to this. Finns, Estonians, Poles, Ukranians would rather die then befriend or subjugate to Russians. Of course the revisionist nationalistic Russians are so detached from reality they only know of the official chauvinistic Glorious War to defend the Motherland. a tragedy of ignorance really
Nameless One
Banned
Communists in many countries are extremely misinformed, their party gives them the most biased books to read about Stalin etc...I wouldn't bother with him and rest assured that I agree with you 100% at least
Sotijalo Hurmerinta
Banned
Communists in many countries are extremely misinformed, their party gives them the most biased books to read about Stalin etc...I wouldn't bother with him and rest assured that I agree with you 100% at least
Yeah its one of those things that are well impossible for us rich westerners to imagine. Even in Estonia many people living standards are close to african and that was one of the most advanced soviet republics. Last week I spent 5 nights in an old house with electricity only in the 1st floor, wooden stove, no running water, no indoor toilet, no possibility to wash/take a shower. As a 1st world inhabitant it was quite a shock to me while not so uncommon in Estonia.
Imagine how its like in Russia, people are still living in the autharchic 15th century on the countryside.
My wifes Ingrian grandmother spend time in both german and soviet prison camps during the WW2 as well as exile in Siberia so I knowthe stories. Life wasen't worth a shit, especially if you weren't a Russian but of some "suspicious" nationality like Finns, Poles, Germans, Estonians, or Ingrians.
Nameless One
Banned
Exactly
Also winter in some of those countries is like a post apocalyptic wasteland
Sotijalo Hurmerinta
Banned
Exactly
Also winter in some of those countries is like a post apocalyptic wasteland
Yeah we have no fricking idea. The winters during WW2 were insane, even by Finnish standards.
Everything highly centralized and government-run.
Nationalised hospitals and medical practices - neat idea if it were not for the Bolsheviks who after the October revolution decided to brand all doctors as rotten bourgeois and enemies of the people forcing many to leave the country. Salaries in the health industry were throughout the years among the lowest in the country, and by the late 50's medical care stopped actually being free because underpaid personal became less covert in accepting bribes from patients in exchange for medical services, supplies and drugs. The overall state of the health industry was way behind the West.
I'd also hardly consider collective flat blocks which were built quickly, with an emphasis on quantity over quality, and in underdeveloped neighborhoods, with poor systems of public transportation, an achievement.
Their agriculture was unproductive due to the climate, lack of proper transport infrastructure and poor worker productivity and inneficient operation of collective farms.
I could go on and on. There were certainly some achievements but nothing was certainly free and as great as you make it out to be.
No, it means that Communism is a flawed political and economic system because people will not work as hard for the benefit of strangers as they will for themselves or their families.
Partially, what you are referring to is economic migration, as in people looking for a new start in a wealthier, more developed country with better opportunities. I was referring to people who often risk their lives on dangerously crude and overcrowded boats to escape not only poverty, but also opression from the Communist apparatus.
You certainly have more pluralism than most communist countries which are de facto one-party states.
It doesn't matter what political ideology they were following. Sending people to labor camps where they died of starvation and overwork, imprisoning them and then executing is just as despicable as what the Nazis did. But fyi, the NKVD in their repressions did concentrate on national minorities and Soviet citizens of foreign origin.
I didn't say anything about West Germany, neither did you in your previous post
I wasn't refering to just the USSR. My point is that there were similarities in Hitlers and Stalins methods, and how they treated ethnic minorities as well as political opponents.
Article 121 of the Soviet Union criminal code made male homosexuality a crime punishable by up to five years in prison with hard labor.
You are correct and that was my mistake quoting Rybakov, I apologize.
He did say though that a concentration camp is an excellent idea in regards to the eradication of counter-revolutionaries in Estonia.
I was talking about the Soviet invasion from 1939, not 1920. But since you're mentioning this, we did pretty well in 1920 considering we just regained independence back in 1918, facing economic dificulties due to massive destruction left after WWI, the exploitation of the Polish economy by the German and Russian occupation, and the sabotage performed by retreating armies. We did pretty well till 1939.
I'm quite aware of the student movement and how it empowered the anger of the spoiled psychopaths from the RAF about post-war denazification in West and East Germany. Although I wouldn't go as far as he did and call it a civil unrest(neither did it culminate in one).
Sotijalo Hurmerinta
Banned
Sub-quality soviet blocks due to bad planning and theft of building materials by the builders during the construction detached from the rest of the town/city/metropolis surrounded by desolate park grounds and no longer functioning fountains...not to forget the detached rows of "garages" for the inhabitants. Soviet realism and still present day nightmare for tens of millions of people in Eastern Europe.
Anyone familiar with this?
Anyone familiar with this?
gutter_trash
Banned
just like the movie Unlgorious Bastard takes an alternate universe approach of events that unfolded during WW2 to make their own movie in that era that = fiction using time piece
same for the game. Relax people
same for the game. Relax people
ape2man
Member
Come on, don't try to defend the a-boms ore the fire bombs on civilian cities. what the Americans did was genocidal and so did the Japanese.
I'm not. I merely listed some of the reasons why it was done. I'm not going to make a argument on whether or not it was right or necessary. It was a war crime.
Jack Cayman
Banned
You sir are full of bullshit, you are either on a right political party that use this kind of propaganda or an anticommunist, because my father hospitalised in USSR in 1984 because he broke his angle in a motorcycle accident. The injury was so bad that the doctors in my country wanted to severe his leg. But my grandfather who was an active communist sent my father to the USSR. In 1984 they used organic transplant to fix his shutter angle bone, he lived for free for 6 month because of the specific treatment and physiotherapy and because he felt obligated to the doctors and it is a Greek "habit" to pay large amount of "black" money to the doctors, the same doctors not only he did NOT accept the money but he pass my father a full lecture about the oath of Hippocratis and said that as a Greek it was his duty to know what being a doctor is. My father is a hardcore anticommunist but to this day he says that if it wasn't a soviet doctor to save his leg now he would be a leg "shorter".
On the other front on education and agriculture you are again full of bullshit, the Soviets were the first to send a rocket in orbit around the moon and the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin in 1961!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin
After being devastated the 80% of the industrial block of production in WW2. Even JFK said about that on the University speech about Peace. After the Cuban missile crisis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_University_speech
You dare now say about JFK he was a Stalin apologist...
Really have you ever see how the capitalistic system treats immigrants, and you talk about oppression, you sir sure are ignorant.
It doesn't matter what political ideology they were following. Sending people to labor camps where they died of starvation and overwork, imprisoning them and then executing is just as despicable as what the Nazis did. But fyi, the NKVD in their repressions did concentrate on national minorities and Soviet citizens of foreign origin.
I didn't say anything about West Germany, neither did you in your previous post
I wasn't refering to just the USSR. My point is that there were similarities in Hitlers and Stalins methods, and how they treated ethnic minorities as well as political opponents.
Article 121 of the Soviet Union criminal code made male homosexuality a crime punishable by up to five years in prison with hard labor.
You are so full of lies that the article on 121 on Soviet Union is about is the right on FREE education.
http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/russian/const/36cons04.html
It is beyond my mind that you fall for in a simple mistake as to SPREAD SO MANY lies and you did not even bother look for if it is real... Or you said some random number to make your lies more formal to the uneducated. Now do your self a favour and stop posting. For the rest of you check the link to the constitution of the Soviet Union about homosexuality oppression or persecution or send them in Goulaks in Siberia... America in the day's of Macarthy is not the same as in the Soviet Union.
[edit]Even on criminal code 121 is not REAL this was the thesis about homosexuality in the USSR.Views on LGBT rights and homosexuality in general throughout communist history have ranged from acceptance to apathy to condemnation.While homosexuality has sometimes been labeled by communists as "one of the effects of capitalist sociality"[1][2] and the product of the bourgeoisie,[3][4][5] many communists, especially in recent times, have argued that Gay Liberation is a key issue according to Marxism.[6][7][8] With few exceptions, Communist attitudes towards homosexuality have in recent times evolved largely in correlation with modern westernization in general.[citation needed]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_homosexuality
What are you babble in about my god I will not even bother answering this LIES. You are a tool clearly, as I said I will not post again in this thread but I felt some facts should be corrected about Goebbels new apprentice propaganda.
Nealand Liquor
Member
At least Russians get mentioned n games about WWII. Hell Canadians were fighting in the war since it began and we never get mentioned. Shit we fought in many of the important battles and we are never even given a passing mention in any WWII media.
Jack Cayman
Banned
So true...
I believe the expansion for Company of Heroes 1 that added the British had one of its three sections as Canadians.
Royal Canadian Artillery was that tree, to be precise.
zero shift
Banned
Pretty much this. Comparing Stalin to Hitler is unfair. Stalin realized his true potential of "evilness". Hitler on the other hand was just beginning (hence the war). He had plans that when the war was done and the Reich was set he would outright kill half of the entire Soviet Union (53 million people) and use many others, I assume the rest, as slaves.
What the hell are you talking about? The USSR was a nightmare, Vietnam abandoned Communism for state-capitalism, Cuba is finally starting to do the same. And while I wouldn't say Cuba is as bad as most Americans think taking it up as some paradise is laughable at best. These countries were shit under "communism". Again the only long term example of actual Communism I can think of are the kibbitz in Israel.
Why do you need Communism for this? Western Europe did the same.
Let me simplify things for you:
img said:
This is the ONLY good Communist leader who ever existed. He actually did everything that the Bolsheviks intended. He fed the people, his collectivization techniques had his country from being a massive food importer to exporter within a year. He gave his people free healthcare. And most of all he didn't enjoy killing his citizens. That's right it worked once...until he was assassinated four and a half years later. All the other Communist leaders ranged from pretty good but horribly abusive (few and far inbetween: Yugoslavia, Hungary, Latvia, Georgia) to monsters of untold proportions (Stalinist Russia, Cambodia). Communism was never really communism. It was the result of an imperial force using nations to their advantage to their bidding. The same reason how Iraq and Afghanistan are being crafted as "democracies" by America.
I will admit that because the Soviet Union lost the cold war the "victors write history" bit plays true. While mismanaged they had the fastest growing economy for years which couldn't be explained solely by oil. They helped Russia become the world superpower. And turned Eastern Europe from having African-like living standards to being settled in the second world. But I don't believe that the tens of millions who died really excuse that especially that all of this could have been done in other ways then transferring nations to totalitarian statist societies.
not_so_special
Banned
you forgot the japanese..the worst of the bunch
not_so_special
Banned
hey son..its ironic you called others for their bullshit...very ironic
runnin_blue
Banned
I'll bet the CIA had something to do with that.
(I just watched Oliver Stone's documentary series on America lol)
Pretty sure the French took him out iirc.
runnin_blue
Banned
I'll admit I don't know much about this particular subject but if you believe certain people, the CIA is ALWAYS involved in toppling foreign governments & inserting their own despot.
Not my views, just sayin'.
Turin Turambar
Member
Wow, this thread went offtopic fast.
The campaign game is strangely unrelenting in how sacrifice-happy, traitorus, fascist and blind were the russians, it's focused in every damn mission and cutscene. I mean, it's something I expected to appear in the campaign, as it happens in movies and books, but the game is very monotone with it. I'm not russian and even for me it was a little bit too much.
The campaign game is strangely unrelenting in how sacrifice-happy, traitorus, fascist and blind were the russians, it's focused in every damn mission and cutscene. I mean, it's something I expected to appear in the campaign, as it happens in movies and books, but the game is very monotone with it. I'm not russian and even for me it was a little bit too much.
michaelius
Banned
Funny thing - the game got some praise in Poland for showing historical reality quite accurately.
Being liberated by Soviet Union was second worst thing to happen just after being occupied by Nazi Germany.
My great grandfather was imprisoned by communist political police just because he was in Polish army in 1939 and he lived only because of miraculus escape - then he had to hide with his family until Stalin died and returned home after amnesty.
Being liberated by Soviet Union was second worst thing to happen just after being occupied by Nazi Germany.
My great grandfather was imprisoned by communist political police just because he was in Polish army in 1939 and he lived only because of miraculus escape - then he had to hide with his family until Stalin died and returned home after amnesty.
Woo-Fu
Banned
I guess that sort of makes up for the Russian bias in World of Tanks.
not that I necessarily agree with the popular opinion that russian bias exists in WoT. It is curious that bouncy trollish modern russian armor is in the game while everybody else's designs stop at slab-side WWII era armor.
Well that escalated quickly.
Your father was lucky he had an active communist in his family, otherwise his situation would've been worse.
Party members and loyalists were always receiving special treatment compared to the rest of the population.
As for Gagarin, everyone knows that the Soviets were the first to get both a satellite and human in orbit, which were pretty admirable accomplishments at that time. But they did not achieve this because of how gloriously advanced science in the USSR was compared to the US, nope, their main advantage was that maintaining even minimal levels of safety was a completely foreign concept to them and they treated humans like expandable and replaceable resources. There are more than a few people including scientists and historians(unfortunately also conspiracy nutjobs) who contend that Gagarin wasn't actually the first man in space, he was just the first one to survive. And that, theoretically, there are some cosmonauts(bodies) still out there hurtling across space. However, the Soviets did have one advantage on their side, mainly their ability to cover up every single failure and destroy all evidence of incompetence, which is why most of the cited evidence to support these theories is generally not regarded as conclusive.
I don't quite understand what you are trying to prove here. I've read the whole transcript of his speech, I know what it is about, but do you? I don't think so...
As for homosexuality in the USSR, Stalin had Article 121.1 added to the entire Soviet Union criminal code in 1933(NOT the constitution of the USSR which you cited), this was the law and remained intact until after the dissolution of the Soviet Union.
http://www.refworld.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/rwmain?docid=3ae6ad788c
Please educate yourself, and most importantly learn to read and to comprehend what you are reading because you are citing sources without actually understanding them. You are citing an wikipedia article proving that communism in modern times has changed its attitude towars homosexuality yet there's no denying there that the USSR under Stalins rule had a generally negative and repressive stance on this issue. "myzhelozhestvo" (a man lying with another man) was punished with up to five years of imprisonment, and psychiatry which made it possible to also forcibly confine lesbian women in a psychiatric clinic. These people were receiving mind-bending drug treatments before being forced to register with a local psychiatrist as mentally ill. Once they were registered, any chance of a professional career or even of getting a driver's license was denied to them.
Please read up on that topic before you label someone as "full of bullshit".
The_Player
Member
ITT: People who know little to nothing about russian history but claim otherwise.
zero shift
Banned
I mean I dislike the Soviet Union but prior astronauts?
They got ahead in the space game because they stole Nazi scientists, like America, and they started researching space shit earlier than America did.
Jack Cayman
Banned
Hahahahaha, please send Laika my regards because Soviets treated dogs better than humans in their space programmes and next time you visit space please send me a soviet cosmonaut that is in orbit around the planet... You now because soviets send Apollo 1 like NASA to their graves because they had total disregard about human life and safety for the biggest step the human kind ever did... I do not say here that NASA disregard human life in their space programmes but that shits happen when you explore something for the first time.
Simple really to people with common sense, how is it possible to a war devastated country after 16 years and Stalin's "persecutions" to balance the economy, fix their production line, built schools and universities and create a space programme to send animals and humans into space. As of JFK peace speech it is you who don't understand what he is saying, admitting about the devastations the USSR suffered and respect their position about their interests as U.S.A would protects theirs. It was a competition of systems for superiority and a war that capitalists from all over the world could not afford to lose.
Please take your fedora avatar and lie to someone else, the article about the UNHRC
states
Are we even serious here, according to a book the legal team of the ILGA found an article about a law that it wasn't even stated on the constitution TEN years after the anti-revolution... Are you joking now... And you accusing me of reading comprehension. As if Stalin and the Soviet people did not have enough problems to contact witch hunts about homosexuals, after all this years the only think that came out about soviets "burn to the stake" the homosexuals is the article 121 in the phantom criminal code that Stalin himself created... What kind of conspiracy books are you reading...McCarthy was the only person who conducted this "witch hunts" Hollywood actors suffered by his black list that even today companies uses that kind of policies to intimidate artists that are activists.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4
For this speech Choplin was accused as a communist in America... Yeah this kind of crazy was the America in the forties and in the fifties and in the sixties.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
Maybe you mix up Joseph McCarthy with Joseph Stalin here, hahaha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJzV6-wJ3SQ
Jack Cayman
Banned
They "stole", it was an unconditioned defeat for Germans they surrendered everything they had from guns to scientific plans about ballistic missiles Nazis were doing crazy shit in the name of science BUT to use them in warfare not send people into space.
America started space programme because the Soviets did it first and they did not wanted the Soviets to surpass them in the Space field and looking like damn asses in the rest of the world. You can see that now that NASA is looking for funding everywhere now that the American government reduced the funding and now NASA are doing tourist attractions to rich space dorks who could afford this kind of journey.
It would be more suffice to make exploration for new habitable planets and colonization programmes.
Oh yes, they treated Laika so well and ofcourse the Soviet government initially claimed, she was euthanised prior to oxygen depletion. Except that's not true at all. In 2002 it was revealed that Laika wasn't euthanized, but that she died within hours of the Sputnik 2 launch. The capsule turned out to be something of a rush job because the thermal insulation system broke right away after start. Poor Laika, whose little doggy heart was already beating at four times its resting rate, found herself in a cabin that was 104 degrees Fahrenheit. Her body shut down from stress and heat within five to seven hours of her launch.
Tbqh I don't even know why I have to write this because the US space program had its fare share of experiments with animals too, which nobody even denies, yet you somehow selectively try to present evidence and make it look like the Soviets were above everyone else, politically, moraly and economically.
Atleast the US didn't make a secret out of their failures in the space programm. The Soviets on the other hand couldn't accept failures because it hurt the propaganda of their glorious communist state - for example Bondarenko and Nelyubov, first one died in a similar accident like Apollo 1 due to fire in a sealed, high-oxygen environment, second one was a drunk who commited suicide. Their deaths were kept a secret, removed from records and their faces airbrushed out from official pictures.
How? I allready pointed out how, by totaly neglecting individual human rights, exploiting and stealing resources from satellite countries, etc.
And this relates how exatcly to the crimes commited by the Soviets?
Boy oh boy you're still denying this law existed? Please look up 'The Criminal Code of the USSR' from William Elliott Butler, or if you need everything in a nutshell just take a look into the wiki entry on LGBT history in Russia under Stalins rule.
ENLIGHTEN US!
michaelius
Banned
Oh wow Stalin murdered like 30 milions of people and most of them for the crime of being born in wrong family or in a wrong place and the biggest discussion is about Soviet Union having enforced treatment for homosexuals and few cosmonaut deaths.
I agree, it's a shame that the discussion took such a turn thanks to certain individuals who can't cope with the fact that Soviet russia was just as terrible as Nazi germany. This is partially my fault too for replying to their idiotic justifications about the crimes commited by Soviets during WWII, and I apologize again for going OT. Time to ignore these fools.
derExperte
Member
It's troubling that people today who have access to so much information actually believe this. Very troubling. Also the Allies aplogized for some of their war crimes and there are people that think they didn't do enough to shed light upon certain events, so why shouldn't that be expected?