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[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

It's troubling that people today who have access to so much information actually believe this. Very troubling. Also the Allies aplogized for some of their war crimes and there are people that think they didn't do enough to shed light upon certain events, so why shouldn't that be expected?

America has never apologized for slavery and a large portion of the country actively celebrates it, America halted Reconstruction, and actively obfuscates American genocide of it's indigenous people.

And now American's want to laugh at Russians because Russians reject the American POV of Russian history.

ITT: People who know little to nothing about russian history but claim otherwise.

All you need to know is 'Murica and Western Europe are the greatest countries in the world and never committed any crimes, unlike Stalin who personally put a bullet into the heads of 40 million people.

Funny that Cambodia was brought up when, one, the Khmer didn't even call themselves a Communist Party until they allied with China and, two, were armed and supported by the United States when Cambodia was liberated by the Marxist Leninists from Vietnam and converted to a People's Republic.

The UK under Winston Churchill starved 4 million in India. The Belgians murdered 15 million in the Congo. The French and the Catholic Church enslaved and murdered hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. Indonesia under Suharto falsely imprisoned 1.5 million people and murdered another million. The Nazi's are responsible for tens of millions of deaths (just to name a few Capitalist atrocities off the top of my head)

But hey, only those damn Commies ever commit crimes. When America does it it's just an unfortunate but unavoidable accident. Next up, the West only killed X million people. The USSR killed Y million, so obviously the USSR was worse!

 

[zero shift]

America has never apologized for slavery and a large portion of the country actively celebrates it.

...WAT!?

All you need to know is 'Murica and Western Europe are the greatest countries in the world and never committed any crimes, unlike Stalin who personally put a bullet into the heads of 40 million people.

Funny that Cambodia was brought up when, one, the Khmer didn't even call themselves a Communist Party until they allied with China and, two, were armed and supported by the United States when Cambodia was liberated by the Marxist Leninists from Vietnam and converted to a People's Republic.

The UK under Winston Churchill starved 4 million in India. The Belgians murdered 15 million in the Congo. The French and the Catholic Church enslaved and murdered hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. Indonesia under Suharto falsely imprisoned 1.5 million people and murdered another million.

But hey, only those damn Commies ever commit crimes. When America does it it's just an unfortunate but unavoidable accident.

EDIT -

Been to the South? The love the hell out of their Confederacy.

That doesn't mean they LIKE slavery. They are just ignorant. Similar to Russians waving the Soviet flag as symbolism of strength and unity when much of it really stands for is murder and oppression.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

...WAT!?

Been to the South? The love the hell out of their Confederacy.


edit

I'm talking to the people who think the only crimes committed in history began and ended in the USSR and people who believe America's version of history is the only accurate authority.


It's largely a response to the overall discussion prompted by CoH's "version" of history.

That doesn't mean they LIKE slavery.

So no, you haven't been to the American South.

We have some real racist jerkoffs here. "War of North Aggression" is what many like to call the Civil War.

 

[ElFly]

Hahaha youtube guy is an asshole. He is making fun of the execution of a german soldier that surrendered.

 

[michaelius]

It's largely a response to the overall discussion prompted by CoH's "version" of history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre

yeah let's glorify the glorius soviet army bring piece to other nations one bullet to the rear of head at time.

 

[Tenrius]

I wish this thread was locked already. It's just too depressing and I have to fight the urge to reply each time I see it pop up.

And now American's want to laugh at Russians because Russians reject the American POV of Russian history.

Would you at least please stop making these rash generalizations? "Russians do this, Russians do that". As a Russian person somewhat familiar with the topic, it is clear to me that you are not really making sense. I don't think this discussion is going to advance any further as it's only going in circles. It's time to stop.

 

[Jack Cayman]

America has never apologized for slavery and a large portion of the country actively celebrates it, America halted Reconstruction, and actively obfuscates American genocide of it's indigenous people.

And now American's want to laugh at Russians because Russians reject the American POV of Russian history.



All you need to know is 'Murica and Western Europe are the greatest countries in the world and never committed any crimes, unlike Stalin who personally put a bullet into the heads of 40 million people.

Funny that Cambodia was brought up when, one, the Khmer didn't even call themselves a Communist Party until they allied with China and, two, were armed and supported by the United States when Cambodia was liberated by the Marxist Leninists from Vietnam and converted to a People's Republic.

The UK under Winston Churchill starved 4 million in India. The Belgians murdered 15 million in the Congo. The French and the Catholic Church enslaved and murdered hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese. Indonesia under Suharto falsely imprisoned 1.5 million people and murdered another million. The Nazi's are responsible for tens of millions of deaths (just to name a few Capitalist atrocities off the top of my head)

But hey, only those damn Commies ever commit crimes. When America does it it's just an unfortunate but unavoidable accident. Next up, the West only killed X million people. The USSR killed Y million, so obviously the USSR was worse!

Thank you kind sir I applause you. At least there are people who look both sides of the coin.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Since I did accusse the Soviets of atrocities, I will post some atrocities done by the west:
Usage of Chemical Warfare in Vietnam and Korea
British Operation Vegetarian (Plan to anthrax bomb Nazi Germany, actually tested on a remote scotish island)

Iraq War, plenty of other stuff.
There are no clean hands in history, I am just pointing out that the Soviet Union was quite bad, but America was no shining beacon of purity either.

 

[Remmy2112]

Thank you kind sir I applause you. At least there are people who look both sides of the coin.

Anytime somebody presents an argument from the "other side of the coin" from you you belittle them, accuse them of political bias, or outright call them bullshit liars. You are the one incapable of seeing both sides of the coin. You are the one who is incapable of looking at evidence posted, instead regarding it as false or propaganda, when you are the one who has posted sources exposed as propaganda or apologist pieces.

You are the one insulting the memories of all those who lived, suffered, and died under the heel of a empire and system that inflicted its tyranny over Asia and Eastern Europe. And you don't even have a personal stake in it. You're a Greek lobbing propaganda mortars onto the heads of people who's families have suffered because you had a daddy with connections who got medical treatment. There's no zealot like a convert I guess.

 

[starwarsfan541]

Anytime somebody presents an argument from the "other side of the coin" from you you belittle them, accuse them of political bias, or outright call them bullshit liars. You are the one incapable of seeing both sides of the coin. You are the one who is incapable of looking at evidence posted, instead regarding it as false or propaganda, when you are the one who has posted sources exposed as propaganda or apologist pieces.

You are the one insulting the memories of all those who lived, suffered, and died under the heel of a empire and system that inflicted its tyranny over Asia and Eastern Europe. And you don't even have a personal stake in it. You're a Greek lobbing propaganda mortars onto the heads of people who's families have suffered because you had a daddy with connections who got medical treatment. There's no zealot like a convert I guess.

Que Applause

Seriously, the Soviets were an evil empire and wernt even communist after Lenin.

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

Anytime somebody presents an argument from the "other side of the coin" from you you belittle them, accuse them of political bias, or outright call them bullshit liars. You are the one incapable of seeing both sides of the coin. You are the one who is incapable of looking at evidence posted, instead regarding it as false or propaganda, when you are the one who has posted sources exposed as propaganda or apologist pieces.

You are the one insulting the memories of all those who lived, suffered, and died under the heel of a empire and system that inflicted its tyranny over Asia and Eastern Europe. And you don't even have a personal stake in it. You're a Greek lobbing propaganda mortars onto the heads of people who's families have suffered because you had a daddy with connections who got medical treatment. There's no zealot like a convert I guess.

'Murica


ed

The USSR wasn't Communist under Lenin, either. Lenin instituted the NEP, a State Capitalist precursor to the Socialist co-operative based State he had planned.

No state run by a Communist Party has ever been, nor considered itself, Communist. They've always considered themselves Socialists on the "road" to Communism.

 

[Remmy2112]

Well based on http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=644651 I see that the Russian distributors made a overly panicky response to the video and discontent. I'm curious how many people expressing discontent, especially with that petition, have actually played the game or are merely treating people like the video creators' word as gospel.

 

[Durask]

A) pointless to argue with an American Stalinist. Truly pointless.

B) Modern russians who are fans of stalin are just authoritarianism junkies. They also like to use terms like "liberast" and "tolerast".

There are some parts of the game, though that can push the wrong buttons
Will elaborate just not from my phone.

 

[Voltaran]

The Bolshevik soldiers raped and pillaged their way through eastern Europe to get to Germany. And when they got there they raped and pillaged some more. This isn't some sort of fairytale, it's what actually happened.
And don't give me that oh they were defending their home shit either, because the whole reason the Germans started the war as early as they did was because the Russians were manufacturing an ungodly amount of equipment for war.

This is very true and reminds me of this poem written by a Soviet soldier:
"The conquerors of Europe swarm,
Russians scurrying everywhere,..
In their trucks they stuff their loot:
Vacuum cleaners, wine, and candles,
Skirts, and picture frames, and pipes,
Brooches, and medallions, blouses, buckles,
Typewriters (not with Russian type),
Rings of sausages and cheeses,
small domestic ware and veils,
Combs, and forks, and wineglasses,
Samplers, and shoes, and scales...

Zweiundzwanzig, Horingstrasse.
It's not been burned, just looted, rifled.
A moaning by the walls, half muffled,
The mother's wounded, still alive.
The little daughter's on the mattress
Dead. How many have been on it?
A platoon, a company perhaps?
A girl's been turned into a woman,
A woman into a corpse.
It's all come down to simple phrases:
Do not forget. Do not forgive.
Blood for blood. A tooth for a tooth.
The mother begs, 'Tote mich, Soldat'...

Once there lived in days now past
A Comrade, a Parteigenosse,
Not the first and not the last
To lie prostrate, each in turn,
In that log-road beneath the wheels,
The wheels of Commintern
Russia advances, a great power,
Hail to the advance's thunder.
Some schnapps would do me good, I feel,
But what would cheer me even more -
Is to go looking for some plunder.....

Allenstein has just been taken.
An hour ago, a sudden strike
Of tanks and cavalry overwhelmed it...
Now the might flares. Burning sugar.
It flames with violet-coloured fire
Over the earth. It seems to simmer,
A trembling blaze, a lilac shimmer...
Knocks. Rings. A tumult. Then we hear
A moment later, the cry of a girl,
Somewhere behind a wall,
'I'm not a German. I'm not a German.
No. I'm - Polish. I'm a Pole.'
Grabbing what comes handy, those
Like-minded lads get in and start -
And oh, what heart
Could well oppose?..."

 

[Voltaran]

Good post, but a few contentions:

Poland - The Red Army wasn't the only country to abandon the Polish. The British asked Stalin to commit to liberating Poland but there was an overwhelmingly large German force stationed there and the Polish partisans had no chance of winning. The German divisions in and around Warsaw had very recently beaten the stuffing out of the Red Army. Stalin made this point clear before the Uprising but Churchill pushed the Poles to the offensive anyway, knowing the US and USSR declined to participate and that Britain wouldn't help in any spectacular manner.

Berlin - The Red Army couldn't have "bee lined" towards Berlin else they would have left their supply lines and flanks open to attack from the Germans occupying Southern Europe. The Red Army also had a vested interested in liberating Hungary as the proto Hungarian Fascists made a successful coup with the help of France, Romania, and Czechoslovakia and removed the legitimately appointed Socialist government in the 20s.

Churchill actually didn't have any say in the decision of when the uprising would take place, nor did the Polish government in London either for that matter. The Poles had been planning the Warsaw uprising as well as others in other cities ever since the their final units surrendered in October 1939. The final decision to initiate the uprising was made solely by the commander of the AK Tadeusz Komorowski after Soviet tanks were spotted on the outskirts of Warsaw. It turned out that these tanks were just a scouting party of a currently surrounded Soviet unit, but nonetheless the bulk of the Soviet army was still not far from the city.

As for the AK standing no chance, that's not totally correct. At the beginning of the uprising the Poles actually did extremely well and it wasn't until the Germans sent in additional SS units that things started going south. And even this would not have necessarily spelled doom for the Poles, had the Soviets allowed the British the use of their airfields, those supplies could have lead to Poles to victory, or at the very least allowed them to hold out longer and do a lot more damage to the Germans.

 

[njean777]

Been to the South? The love the hell out of their Confederacy.


edit

I'm talking to the people who think the only crimes committed in history began and ended in the USSR and people who believe America's version of history is the only accurate authority.


It's largely a response to the overall discussion prompted by CoH's "version" of history.



So no, you haven't been to the American South.

We have some real racist jerkoffs here. "War of North Aggression" is what many like to call the Civil War.

I live in the south and you couldn't be more wrong, while their are idiot racists out there it isn't only in the south, you make it seem like the majority of us are racists. Which is a total fallacy. Sure people like the rebel flag down here but most i would say 99% that i have talked to are far from racist. Most people today (where I live) use it to show they are against the federal government in other words a rebel.

 

[Voltaran]

Sorry mate but your historical facts are so wrong that makes you as good as the writers of the script of Company of Heroes 2. WWII was a crime against humanity Katyn forest was commited by Nazis not Soviets and it was proved after the documents of Goebbels were revealed, you must remember in history class about the Hiroshima and Nagashaki nuclear bombs that were thrown even if Japan was already surrender to the allies, just to show that American's had nuclear against the Soviets.

I didn't see that in Company of Heroes 1. But lets blame the salty nationalist Russian...

No, The Katyn massacre was carried out by the Soviets, they even apologized for the massacre in 1990 and carried out their own investigation, in which they confirmed that the massacre had indeed been carried out by the NKVD with Stalin's approval. Sorry, but I hadn't read much past this post when I made it, thus the reason it only contains information others have said and that you have tried to discredit, but now I will address the points you have made in your later posts.

First it is important to note that it is the Katyn massacre that broke off all diplomatic ties between the Polish London government and the Soviets after the Poles called for an investigation of the bodies by the International Red cross, which did occur and came to the conclusion that the men had been killed by the Soviets in 1940. The evidence that lead them to this conclusion is that 1. None of the victims had any documents on them dated later than April, 1940 (the Soviets planted documents dated summer 1941 on them when they conducted their own investigation, which was carried out by a committee consisting of only Soviet citizens). 2. Forensics showed they were killed some time in 1940. 3. All the men were shot in the traditional soviet fashion ( a bullet to the base of the back of the skull) with Soviet bullets. The reason for Churchill and the Americans accepting the Soviet account of the massacre is solely for political reasons, the uncovering of these bodies had already lead to the severing of all ties between the Polish London Gov't and the Soviets the British and Americans were not about to let this damage their relations with Stalin or as the US was portraying him at the "Uncle Joe." It is also due to the fact that with the death of Władysław Sikorski in a plane crash on July 4, 1943 the Poles really lost almost all of their political influence with the western allies, as their armed forces were no longer very important to the war effort (though their intelligence gathering capabilities still was) and were completely overshadowed by the Soviet forces. It was Sikorski's relationship with Churchill, Churchill's sympathy for the plight of the Polish people, and the fact that the Poles stood with the British during their "finest hour" that gave them any political influence whatsoever, Sikorski's death pretty much meant the end of this.