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[HyperBitHero]

With The Last of Us garnering over 200 game of the year awards, I feel like there has been a party that I wasn't invited to. Personally, the game ended up leaving me cold, even though I was excited to play it since we first saw of it at E3 2012. I decided to make a video about my experience with the game, and why it ended up letting me down. I hope you can see where I'm coming from, even though I know a lot of you really love the game.

Why The Last of Us Was Disappointing

Did any of you have a similar experience with the game?

 

[UltimateRemag]

Dissappointingly too good??

 

[Winternet]

This is gotta be one of the most nitpicky video I have ever seen. holy shit.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Seems like you had some unfortunate AI problems there. I can only say for myself but playing on Hard the AI was good. They would run away when I had a gun.

 

[maneil99]

This is gotta be one of the most nitpicky video I have ever seen. holy shit.

Hey yakuza has a system where you can scare enemies, why doesnt TLOU have a better system. And then a shit ton of buggy ai moments from easy mode

 

[Radec]

"Why this game is disappointing to me and you are all wrong for liking it!"

 

[Sheroking]

I'm surprised their isn't some rule about using NeoGAF to advertise your YouTube channel.

The video itself: Turn up the difficulty and at least pretend like you want to enjoy it, instead of wanting to criticize it. I actually don't believe you ever enjoyed a game with the frame of mind you display in that video.

 

[Akainu]

I'm surprised their isn't some rule about using NeoGAF to advertise your YouTube channel.

Wasn't the hiphop guy banned for that?

 

[bombshell]

I'm surprised their isn't some rule about using NeoGAF to advertise your YouTube channel.

There is:

E. Self-Promotion and Spam

Do not create new threads promoting a product or service you have any involvement in, or paste PR materials for promotional purposes, or attempt to embed referral links in your posts to generate revenue. If an existing discussion is taking place directly involving something you are associated with, you may participate in order to answer questions, clarify details, and otherwise engage with the community, but as a person, not an advertisement.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

"Most of the praise comes form its narrative"

Bullshit. Read the reviews. Read the player impressions.

 

[KennyLinder]

Possible spoilers if you know NOTHING about the game, but just enemy talk;

I dunno, I thought the AI was really good in the game. They go searching when they hear you, hear a bottle/brick smashing, or think they see you. They are much better at this on Survivor difficulty (finished Survivor+ yesterday and then cleared a couple of trophies using Easy on Chapter select so its fresh in my mind).

Spoiler

Also, Clickers have much better hearing on higher difficulties; there are some genuinely tense moments in the game against those enemies. Bloaters are the same, you can play awesome cat and mouse with them as they too are blind, but have incredible hearing.

Fucking rad game.

 

[OminoMichelin]

Hard to argue with the video, if he really played at the hardest difficulty as he states.
I think naughty dog should be called out for overpromising things a bit.
Also, inb4thelock, because self promotion is a no-no.

 

[unholyrevenger72]

I decided to make a video about my experience with the game, and why it ended up letting me down.

Why? all you have to say "My expectations were impossible to meet, therefore; i am disappointed."

 

[Doombacon]

I can see where you are coming from with this. I know quite a few people who have bought heavily into event demo features and gotten burned by the resulting hype.

I think it's unfortunate that we need to be so skeptical about everything a company shows us but that is just the world that we live in.

 

[Myzer]

I pretty much instantly disregarded the video the moment you stated that DmC and Bioshock Infinite where bad games, and you expected them to be bad.

It just sounds like you don't like games.

 

[Awntawn]

I honestly don't know how to explain the behavior in your footage. Completely different from my experience playing the game, and I wasn't even playing on Survivor.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Aside form the potential self-promotion, I don't see why anyone would have problems with anything in the video. There's been a bunch of videos about the differences between enemy AI in the first trailer and the final game. It's indisputable, even if you consider that there would have to be some scripting for the preview.

The enemy encounters can allow for some interesting situations, probably more than any other AAA linear games this gen. It's still a step down and these problems show up enough to be noticeable without actively looking for them. enemy non-aggro AI is considerably poor, which sticks out in comparison to active combat. Since the whole game follows a pretty routine structure overall (a pattern of traversal, enemy encounter, simple environmental puzzle), stuff like this is even more noticeable.

 

[Alienous]

I agree.

I was hoping that the AI would be smart enough (i.e. act like in the E3 demo) so that I wouldn't fight waves of them. I really wanted to face perhaps 50 human enemies all told throughout the single-player. Unique, challenging AI. Heck, at that point you could individually name and voice act them. Make them feel unique, and more than just any enemy that spawned in.

Somewhat ironically the multiplayer delivers on the SP AI promise. Smart enemies that act intelligently. They self preserve, ambush, run out of ammo and adapt tactics. They flee, team up, sneak up on you etc.

There's room for improvement in a sequel. Have the enemies you meet in SP actually roam for items, scavenging what is randomly generated into the environment. Make them run out of ammo when their scavenged rounds deplete. Make them run. Make them frantically search for resources, or adjust tactics to get behind you. Make them wait around corners, or mess with the environment to mislead you. Have them attatch some scissors to a 2x4 they found. And if it means I only kill 40 people when the game is over, and each engagement relies more on wits than headshots, and plays more like a boss battle than a shootout, that's fantastic. Let the infected be the bullet sponges.

Hopefully Naughty Dog make the AI even better in TLOU 2.

 

[HeelPower]

And then a shit ton of buggy ai moments from easy mode

I can hardly recall such moments from the game.I thought enemies were vicious and relentless enough.

The game was pretty hard for me.

Also hiding and ambushing would be pointless.There is listen mode in the game.

 

[WanderingWind]

"Why this game is disappointing to me and you are all wrong for liking it!"

I'm surprised their isn't some rule about using NeoGAF to advertise your YouTube channel.

The video itself: Turn up the difficulty and at least pretend like you want to enjoy it, instead of wanting to criticize it. I actually don't believe you ever enjoyed a game with the frame of mind you display in that video.

Come on guys. He articulated his thoughts well beyond this.

OP, the video is alright, but you've fallen into the trap in which you wonder why Game A doesn't have a feature from Game X, even though Game X doesn't have a ton of features from Game A and is in a wholly different genre. If you ever find yourself asking "why doesn't this game have this feature I like" then you probably need to think about why. Reality is that video games, with current tech, have a limited amount of features. Sure, TLoU didn't have a particular combat piece from Yakuza, but I'm sure if you thought about it, you'd see comparing a brawler centered on combat and a survival shooter doesn't make sense. The mechanics and values places on combat behavior is going to be different. You might as well asked why TLoU doesn't feature combos and a rage meter. It's simply comparing apples to owls and it doesn't work.

Oh, and the grudge you have against Bioshock Infinite is very weird and doesn't really put you forth as somebody who doesn't hold weird grudges. Comparing the games are fine, I suppose - if unnecessary, but to go out of your way to twice point out that you thought the game was shit is just...bad. It's unnecessary to spend review time of one game shitting needlessly on another, simply because you don't like it.

 

[DigiMish]

I agree.

I was hoping that the AI would be smart enough (i.e. act like in the E3 demo) so that I wouldn't fight waves of them. I really wanted to face perhaps 50 human enemies all told throughout the single-player. Unique, challenging AI. Heck, at that point you could individually name and voice act them. Make them feel unique, and more than just any enemy that spawned in.

Somewhat ironically the multiplayer delivers on the SP AI promise. Smart enemies that act intelligently. They self preserve, ambush, run out of ammo and adapt tactics. They flee, team up, sneak up on you etc.

There's room for improvement in a sequel. Have the enemies you meet in SP actually roam for items, scavenging what is randomly generated into the environment. Make them run out of ammo when their scavenged rounds deplete. Make them run. Make them frantically search for resources, or adjust tactics to get behind you. Make them wait around corners, or mess with the environment to mislead you. Have them attatch some scissors to a 2x4 they found. And if it means I only kill 40 people when the game is over, and each engagement relies more on wits than headshots, and plays more like a boss battle than a shootout, that's fantastic. Let the infected be the bullet sponges.

Hopefully Naughty Dog make the AI even better in TLOU 2.

Sounds like you're describing a totally different game.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Why did you expect DmC and BI to be bad?

Your video was fine, but I'd drop the hack radio voice thing. Your normal voice is good enough.

 

[Kensuke]

I loved TLOU, but I think OP makes some very good points. The AI downgrade is very unfortunate. I wouldn't call it nitpicking at all.

Guys, calm down. Different viewpoints are valuable and OP articulates his views fairly eloquently. There are also plenty of examples in the video.

 

[HyperBitHero]

"Why this game is disappointing to me and you are all wrong for liking it!"

I never said that at all.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

Hard to argue with the video, if he really played at the hardest difficulty as he states.
I think naughty dog should be called out for overpromising things a bit.
Also, inb4thelock, because self promotion is a no-no.

Posting the video if the OP wants us to discuss it with him is fine I think. However if he's just going to post the video and never return to the thread then its a bit weird.

Many of the things he said that were missing like ambushes, AI running away when pointed to a gun or apparent in my game and other people's game as well.

 

[Awntawn]

Sounds like you're describing a totally different game.

I'm starting to think maybe there's certain PS3 hardware revision out there that just doesn't run the AI right or something. I've heard similar arguments before and brushed them off as people who hadn't actually played the game trying to troll since it seemed so off base, but the footage in the vid (and the sheer abundance of it) has me genuinely scratching my head.

 

[GamingIsDead]

AI was in general much more intelligent and dynamic then the vast majority of 3rd person shooters out there. imo the ai was the best part of the game.

How many game's out there handle both stealth and action oriented ai well at the same time. Hardly any.

 

[HyperBitHero]

The video itself: Turn up the difficulty and at least pretend like you want to enjoy it, instead of wanting to criticize it. I actually don't believe you ever enjoyed a game with the frame of mind you display in that video.

Like I said in the video, almost all of the footage is from survivor difficulty. I don't know where you're coming from with your second statement. I was very excited to play the game, especially after Bioshock Infinite.

 

[Alienous]

Sounds like you're describing a totally different game.

No, I don't think so. That was definitely the impression the E3 footage gave me.

Read it again?

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Somewhat ironically the multiplayer delivers on the SP AI promise. Smart enemies that act intelligently. They self preserve, ambush, run out of ammo and adapt tactics. They flee, team up, sneak up on you etc.

It's why I almost always hope devs can allocate some time and budget toward multiplayer modes, particularly in more unique games. A lot of AI in games attempts to recreate reactive, thinking opponents and many gameplay problems stem from enemies either being too good or easily cheesable, even if the gameplay mechanics themselves are completely fine.

Multiplayer is where a lot of mechanics shine, especially here. in the perma-death modes, player's value their "lives" like survivors would. Smoke actually affects how well they can see instead of reducing the AI's "field of vision" quotient, or whatever. Players will run from someone who has a powerful weapon if they're out of ammo, set traps, lie in wait, and so forth. having human players on the other end can enrich every part of a game

Why? all you have to say "My expectations were impossible to meet, therefore; i am disappointed."

He says the game doesn't match the preview material, material that either was, or mimicked, gameplay.

 

[Metalmurphy]

"It's a fact that many of the things shown of in the E3 / PAX demos just aren't possible in the game"

This bullshit again? There's like 1 or 2 things that aren't. Everything else is in the game, and alot more that weren't even in those demos.

Lie nº1: Enemies with melee weapons have no reaction if you point a gun to their face.

Gonna keep watching to catch any more.

*edit*

Lie nº2: Enemies react the same way no matter what the situation is.

 

[Footos22]

Ok so you didnt like the last of us or Bioshock infinite, even calling that one bad. (lol)

OP have these games taken away your precious time on Barbies horse adventures?

 

[Auto-Reply]

I agree with a lot of what you say in the video, especially the enemy behaviour. I think they did some of it (running straight at you) to force the player to a certein playstyle and i hate that with a passion!
I had some issues with this game.

 

[Llyrwenne]

I honestly don't know how to explain the behavior in your footage. Completely different from my experience playing the game, and I wasn't even playing on Survivor.

For the most part because he is actively trying to make that stuff happen.

I'm not saying that the A.I. couldn't have been better or that it hasn't had a big downgrade since E3, but it certainly isn't as bad in normal gameplay as you are actively trying to make it look, OP. This is like grabbing something that is marketed as shock-resistant and completely smashing it up multiple times with a hammer, then afterwards claiming that it's a bad product because it 'wasn't shock-resistant after all'.

And how can the downgrade in A.I. from the TLOU E3 demo to the final product possibly be more disappointing than the downgrade of, well, everything from the Bioshock Infinite demos to the final product? This just screams nit-picking and hyperbole to me.

 

[HyperBitHero]

There is:

I've asked two mods if it is okay to post about my videos in the past and they said it was cool.

 

[BigTnaples]

One of the best games I have ever played. Sorry that it did not click for you.

 

[honeymustardn]

Ok so you didnt like the last of us or Bioshock infinite, even calling that one bad. (lol)

OP have these games taken away your precious time on Barbies horse adventures?

It's ok for people to not like games you like.

 

[DieEnteWurzel]

I don't recall the AI glitching out like in your video once during my only playthrough (hard)
And while the E3 demo looked promising in terms of AI, what we got is about what I expected in a (now) last gen game. And if you really thought those Watch Dogs scenes will be in the game unscripted, I fear you're in for another disappointment

Maybe the Thread/Video would better be titled "Why The AI Last of Us Was Disappointing" because this is what this comes down to really and would look less like clickbait . (saying you don't care for story etc. doesn't really help since it's kinda obvious you're in the minority here playing this game only because of the AI demoed at E3)

 

[Alienous]

Ok so you didnt like the last of us or Bioshock infinite, even calling that one bad. (lol)

OP have these games taken away your precious time on Barbies horse adventures?

Do you want to contribute something constructive or thought-provoking? Heck, attempt to?

I don't see any reason to come in and just fart up the thread with posts that mean nothing.

 

[Footos22]

I agree with a lot of what you say in the video, especially the enemy behaviour. I think they did some of it (running straight at you) to force the player to a certein playstyle and i hate that with a passion!
I had some issues with this game.

So because an enemy ran straight at you forcing you to change up your playstyle you hate it.
You'd rather they all sat back and popped up behind cover? There's games at the fair that cater to your needs.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

"It's a fact that many of the things shown of in the E3 / PAX demos just aren't possible in the game"

This bullshit again? There's like 1 or 2 things that aren't. Everything else is in the game, and alot more that weren't even in those demos.

It's been a while since I played it. Are these in the final game?

1. enemies lying in wait
2. Enemies running from you when you have a gun
3. Enemies snatching your gun while you aim elsewhere
4. guys holding you while another tries to shoot you

How is that statement BS, going by that E3 trailer? The enemy AI is pretty good in the final game, but there's a considerable downgrade. It might not matter much to some people, but it's not ridiculous for others to say it matters to them.

So because an enemy ran straight at you forcing you to change up your playstyle you hate it.
You'd rather they all sat back and popped up behind cover? There's games at the fair that cater to your needs.

That happens even when you're armed with gun and they're not too. If the enemies acted like they did in that E3 trailer, you'd still have to change up your playstyle occasionally. It'd also be further from "idiot suicidal bullet sponge enemy" that plagues too many games

 

[danthefan]

"I didn't expect Bioshock Infinite to be good, so wasn't surprised when it was bad"

Do I need to keep watching this?

 

[Metalmurphy]

Like I said in the video, almost all of the footage is from survivor difficulty. I don't know where you're coming from with your second statement. I was very excited to play the game, especially after Bioshock Infinite.

I'm having a very hard time believing this. This is TLoU in Survivor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ0ZBGkEUU

That video shows how wrong many of your claims in your video are.

It's been a while since I played it. Are these in the final game?

1. enemies lying in wait
2. Enemies running from you when you have a gun
3. Enemies snatching your gun while you aim elsewhere
4. guys holding you while another tries to shoot you

How is that statement BS, going by that E3 trailer? The enemy AI is pretty good in the final game, but there's a considerable downgrade. It might not matter much to some people, but it's not ridiculous for others to say it matters to them.

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Didn't happen to me but I think i remember a GAF member saying yes.
4. They can hold you, not sure if they hold you specifically for someone else to shoot you.

 

[DigiMish]

No, I don't think so.

Read it again?

Most arenas where you encounter enemies in TLOU aren't big enough for the enemies to roam around and "scavenge" for items.

Also, encountering only 50 human enemies in the game is not really mainstream-friendly for an action-adventure game.

Like I said, you propose interesting ideas, but it doesn't sound like TLOU2 to me - it sounds like an open world game.

 

[PedroPanache]

I never paid much heed to the hype train and never really saw much of the e3 demo, but you're setting yourself up for a fall if you put the possibility of what might have been on a pedestal. The demo suggests a more intricate and nuanced approach to enemy encounters and, unfortunately, the game doesn't live up to those expectations. However, if you play the game through that prism with all its faults being magnified based off a short demo, you're doing yourself an injustice in how you approach games. As with Fable, you can either play the game or play the hype. If you choose the former, you'll get a good, solid entertaining game, if you choose the latter, you'll somehow feel cheated out of the greatest game of all time.

Interesting video and always nice to get an opinion that contrasts with your own. I enjoyed the game immensely, but I can't help but agree with the OP that it would have been even better if that e3 build had delivered on its promise. I would stop short of calling The Last Of Us disappointing based off what might have been.

 

[Deputy Dangle]

I think you brought up good points about how the AI was presented in promotional material and how lacking it turned out to be in the final product. It's hard to argue against that. But I do feel you may have just been unlucky when it came to experiencing some bad glitches. I personally didn't experience any instances that I can recall of enemies with molatovs in hand not throwing them or noticeably bad AI pathfinding aside from Ellie.

Outside of that, I very much agree with what you're saying, and it may have been part of why I didn't find the shootouts to be particularly compelling.

 

[Alienous]

So because an enemy ran straight at you forcing you to change up your playstyle you hate it.
You'd rather they all sat back and popped up behind cover? There's games at the fair that cater to your needs.

It was a heavy handed attempt at making the enemies adjust tactics. They were either in turtle mode or seppuku mode. The tactics outside of that weren't really apparent. Not much intelligent flanking. Not many, if any, ambushes. Rarely a justified retreat.

The cool AI stuff only seemed to happen when I prompted it or let it happen ("Oh no, I sure do hope that no-one sneaks up behind me").

 

[hokagespit]

the only triple AAA game ive joyfully finished in maybe 3 years, multiple times.

the game is meant to be played on survivor and can you just take in account even the all powerful oz has his limits. this is old hardware. what they achieved with it is so damned impressive.

 

[plasmawave]

Like I said in the video, almost all of the footage is from survivor difficulty. I don't know where you're coming from with your second statement. I was very excited to play the game, especially after Bioshock Infinite.

If you really did play it in survivor difficulty then there should be no blinking items on the floor.
Nice try tho.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Also, encountering only 50 human enemies in the game is not really mainstream-friendly for an action-adventure game.

50 enemies where each acts like they do in that first trailer could be enough and still be exciting. just because every other action game has waves of hundreds of enemies doesn't mean that's required for people to enjoy them.