AceBandage
Banned
Starchasing said:
What other game has so many motion controls and completely redesigns a franchises layout at the same time?
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Wii 2 (Project Cafe): Officially Announced, Playable At E3, Launching 2012 [Updated]
- Thread starter Nirolak
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What other game has so many motion controls and completely redesigns a franchises layout at the same time?
VisanidethDM
Banned
Dammit Retro, you could sue me :lol.
Dunno how I missed that post.
I'm gonna go back to see the posts about the R700 series being powerful enough to match anything released by the competitor; it's very surprising, to say the least.
Dunno how I missed that post.
I'm gonna go back to see the posts about the R700 series being powerful enough to match anything released by the competitor; it's very surprising, to say the least.
Starchasing
Member
AceBandage said:
You are assuming that Nintendo is ditching motion controls for Project Cafe...
Im assuming they dont and somehow integrate a screen in that setup
Awesome Animals
Member
Wow, this looks pretty impressive, and something I would purchase. This being the first time I have looked into the Wii2 rumors and information, I am ecstatic that they are moving towards a real controller as a norm.
That was the biggest factor in my disinterest in the original Wii. I couldn't even play Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy because I genuinely disliked the controllers that much. The only game I could handle was Wii Sports.
That isn't to say I think the Wii sucked, it just wasn't for me. Looking at preview titles, the Pokemon RPG seems incredibly intriguing, as well as what Rockstar has to show. I'm definitely interested in this console now, and I am definitely excited to see how the E3 event goes. I really do love Nintendo, and want to support them as much as possible. Now is a chance for me to continue doing so.
That was the biggest factor in my disinterest in the original Wii. I couldn't even play Twilight Princess or Super Mario Galaxy because I genuinely disliked the controllers that much. The only game I could handle was Wii Sports.
That isn't to say I think the Wii sucked, it just wasn't for me. Looking at preview titles, the Pokemon RPG seems incredibly intriguing, as well as what Rockstar has to show. I'm definitely interested in this console now, and I am definitely excited to see how the E3 event goes. I really do love Nintendo, and want to support them as much as possible. Now is a chance for me to continue doing so.
I believe (but not 100% sure) there was an official statement that it was just for the demo. Otherwise I think they were able to turn it off, even in the demo.Starchasing said:
I'll check for a source.
Edit:
http://wii.ign.com/articles/109/1098500p1.html
AceBandage
Banned
Starchasing said:
Er, um huh?
What does the screen have to do with Skyward Sword?
It all depends on what kind of R700 Nintendo uses. Performance per Watt mostly changed due to die shrinking, not because current chips are inherently more efficient. While it is true that current top of the line PC GPUs are a few times more powerful than even the biggest R700, they also draw a lot more power - way too much for consoles. To achieve twice the performance of RV740 with the latest generation AMD GPU, Northern Islands, you'd end up with roughly twice the TDP, and that GPU alone would draw almost as much power as a whole Xbox360 manufactured in 2007. And the feature sets hardly changed, too.VisanidethDM said:
The RV740 achieves 960GFLOPS with 826 million transistors and a 137mm^2 die. That's almost identical to Juniper Pro, but Juniper Pro requires 1.04 billion transistors and a 170mm^2 die to achieve roughly the same performance (Juniper Pro performs slightly better, but it also has a slightly worse TDP - performance per Watt is pretty much the same).
Sorry if this has already been posted, but doesn't the short press release suggest that the system is going to be released between january and march 2012?
"The sales projections of this new system have not been included in the financial results announced today for the fiscal term ending march 2012."
This quote could perhaps suggest that they're actually aiming for a release schedule like the 3DS: February 2012 in Japan and March 2012 in other major regions, maybe even global in february. I know this theory is based on semantics and speculation, but I still think it's at the least interesting.
"The sales projections of this new system have not been included in the financial results announced today for the fiscal term ending march 2012."
This quote could perhaps suggest that they're actually aiming for a release schedule like the 3DS: February 2012 in Japan and March 2012 in other major regions, maybe even global in february. I know this theory is based on semantics and speculation, but I still think it's at the least interesting.
devildog820
Member
CaptainDa said:
Wishful thinking. That's more CYA language for whatever regulatory body governs the exchange where Nintendo is traded. They are just telling investors that their generalized numbers don't reflect what was just announced (Wii 2).
Sammy Samusu
Member
NoooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! LMAO!Mr_Appleby said:
They are in a good position now. The Wii was the leader this whole generation (Is still number 2 monthly) and that was with early knowledge that the graphics were no where near PS3 or 360. They had a ton of 1st party to help them and if they put that same level out, they will have no problems maintaing the lead and being profitable even if the other guys have more powerful product.VisanidethDM said:
I do agree that to be PS2 level they need 3rd partes, but time and again, Iwata has mentioned two things: the hardcore are going to have at least one of the other systems. He was marketing Wiii as a companion console. He also mentioned that software is key. That's Nintendo's biggest problem is they see themselves as a software company first and design hardware to play it.
They seem to have a natural competitive spirit with other software companies which would normally be a good thing if 3rd parties didn't whine so much or simply copy them. I think they are going to have to spend money to woo their competitors. Otherwise, they'll still be fine getting at least 360 numbers just off of their software and the support they normally get.
Sammy Samusu
Member
A playing card game for Cafe would be nice!
orioto said:
The sides should be easily reachable with your thumbs. If you have to touch a part you can't reach with your thumbs, removing one hand from the controller to tap something on the screen takes a fraction of a second.
Out of curiosity, do you crash your car every time you take your eyes off the road to have a quick glance at your speedometer or GPS or whatever?
It was never confirmed anywhere, and the same HUD was in the video reel shown at GDC. So, until it's gone, it's reasonable to assume it could stay.Strive said:
IGN was the only site to report it could be turned off, and we have evidence of the same HUD after last year's E3.Strive said:
Yeah, forgot to refresh before hitting replyStrive said:Please read the comments before posting.
Edit: Oh, you edited. When I looked for a source I saw multiple sites reporting on it. It can't be denied that Miyamoto said it live during a conference, anyway.
Anyway, I remember this discussion coming up multiple times before, with no proof besides that IGN link ever confirming it, and the fact you can't really disable the HUD (just the mini map) in other Zelda games made the IGN link kinda dubious as well.
Now, I certainly am the first to hope this HUD will die a horrible, horrible death. But the evidence, right now, seems to suggest otherwise... so we'll see. Fingers crossed for it being at least optional (who would ever want to keep it on, anyway?).
Grampa Simpson
Banned
It could be worse. He could be a drummer.wsippel said:And that's why you're an artist, not a game designer.
Refreshment.01
Member
Have you used a dual monitor display before?orioto said:
Anyway, it was confirmed that you could disable the HUD in the settings.Starchasing said:
http://www.gamexplain.com/article-182-1277162769-zelda-skyward-sword-13-facts-you-may-not-know.html
AndyMoogle
Member
Saying that a screen on the controller is pointless because you have to look down all the time, is about the same as saying that keyboard shortcuts in PC games are pointless because you have to look down; which you obviously don't have to.
We are talking about a 6" screen here, they can put big buttons there if they want to, and you can quickly learn where to press on the screen without looking.
Obviously, extra buttons isn't the only thing a touch screen could add to the controller. Being able to draw and/or write at any time is something that could be very helpful for example, and there have been some pretty good examples of other stuff in this thread as well.
Imagine that you're stuck in a game and you notice that a friend is playing the same game. You'll go into a private chat session with him and then start sending images you've drawn regarding the problem to him while talking. There is a lot of potential in the messaging department alone. Obviously that requires Nintendo to get a decent online architecture up and running, which probably won't happen, but one can dream.
I don't think we've heard anything about a camera in the controller, have we? Cause that could add an extra kind of depth for the messaging system alone. They could also add some augmented reality with it. Having everything in the controller would be awesome. Expensive, but awesome.
Also, like so many others have said before, new versions of Four Swords and Crystal Chronicles have to be released on Café. And Pac-Man vs. Those great games were made with GBA-GC connectivity. Now that the screen will be on every controller, I bet we will see plenty of awesome stuff on the Café.
We are talking about a 6" screen here, they can put big buttons there if they want to, and you can quickly learn where to press on the screen without looking.
Obviously, extra buttons isn't the only thing a touch screen could add to the controller. Being able to draw and/or write at any time is something that could be very helpful for example, and there have been some pretty good examples of other stuff in this thread as well.
Imagine that you're stuck in a game and you notice that a friend is playing the same game. You'll go into a private chat session with him and then start sending images you've drawn regarding the problem to him while talking. There is a lot of potential in the messaging department alone. Obviously that requires Nintendo to get a decent online architecture up and running, which probably won't happen, but one can dream.
I don't think we've heard anything about a camera in the controller, have we? Cause that could add an extra kind of depth for the messaging system alone. They could also add some augmented reality with it. Having everything in the controller would be awesome. Expensive, but awesome.
Also, like so many others have said before, new versions of Four Swords and Crystal Chronicles have to be released on Café. And Pac-Man vs. Those great games were made with GBA-GC connectivity. Now that the screen will be on every controller, I bet we will see plenty of awesome stuff on the Café.
VisanidethDM said:
To be fair, augmented reality type stuff has been around for years, but the technology (cameras, screens, battery life, motion sensing, etc.) hasn't been cheap enough to fit into a traditional gaming setup until recently.
I don't think we'll see a rear camera (facing away from the player) as that seems to be more of a handheld thing, but... who knows.
Since we're talking about it... here's a big list of stuff you can do with a personal screen;
Frees up screen real estate.
- Essential for clean split-screen play.
- Allows for more information to be conveyed to a player even in a split screen environment. Anyone play Starcraft 64 and try and sort out all that info?
- The secondary function of a gun you're carrying, explained in detail rather than a name or blurb. Imagine all of the info that can't be conveyed because it's too much text/images mid-game, but can be shown on the secondary screen. In theory, you could have a sort of 'mini manual' down there.
- Allows for more information to be conveyed to a player even in a split screen environment. Anyone play Starcraft 64 and try and sort out all that info?
- The secondary function of a gun you're carrying, explained in detail rather than a name or blurb. Imagine all of the info that can't be conveyed because it's too much text/images mid-game, but can be shown on the secondary screen. In theory, you could have a sort of 'mini manual' down there.
More 'cinematic' games.
- Minimalist UI
- Off-screen subtitles
- Unobtrusive but 'necessary' updates
- Off-screen subtitles
- Unobtrusive but 'necessary' updates
- Achivements Updates
- Friends logging in/out
- System messages
- Friends logging in/out
- System messages
Privacy during split-screen.
- What item you're holding in Mario Kart.
- What weapon you're carrying in a FPS.
- How close to empty your clip is in a FPS.
- Your radar in a FPS.
- How full your Super meter is in a fighting game (so your opponent can't predict when you're about to use it).
- What backup characters you've selected in a fighting game.
- What if there was a fighting game where you couldn't see how much life the other guy had? You'd have to judge based on their character's visible damage.
- What actions you've selected in a turn-based Strategy game.
- A private sniper scope. Even when you see someone zooming in with your peripheral vision, you know they're about to take a shot.
- Maybe there is a 'blind' mode where your part of the TV is blacked out, but you can still navigate via the controller.
- Dice rolls in an RPG.
- Plays in a Sports Game.
- Imagine stealing home when your opponent isn't looking because there isn't a UI element that constantly shows where every player is at.
- Hide and go seek.
- What cards you're holding in a card-based battle (Pokemon CCG anyone?)
- What weapon you're carrying in a FPS.
- How close to empty your clip is in a FPS.
- Your radar in a FPS.
- How full your Super meter is in a fighting game (so your opponent can't predict when you're about to use it).
- What backup characters you've selected in a fighting game.
- What if there was a fighting game where you couldn't see how much life the other guy had? You'd have to judge based on their character's visible damage.
- What actions you've selected in a turn-based Strategy game.
- A private sniper scope. Even when you see someone zooming in with your peripheral vision, you know they're about to take a shot.
- Maybe there is a 'blind' mode where your part of the TV is blacked out, but you can still navigate via the controller.
- Dice rolls in an RPG.
- Plays in a Sports Game.
- Imagine stealing home when your opponent isn't looking because there isn't a UI element that constantly shows where every player is at.
- Hide and go seek.
- What cards you're holding in a card-based battle (Pokemon CCG anyone?)
See? Somebody else thinks it's a good idea.Sammy Samusu said:
Player-specific Information (i.e. Crystal Chronicles)
- Everyone has a different piece of information that they need to monitor and inform the other players of.
- Class based RPGs or FPSers can offer unique 'perspectives', like having night vision as a spy, satellite view as a commander, being able to see cracks in walls as a Dwarf, etc.
- Personal track info in Guitar Hero/Rockband-type games.
- Character sheets in an RPG, so you can see all of your character's info at a glance any time.
- Class based RPGs or FPSers can offer unique 'perspectives', like having night vision as a spy, satellite view as a commander, being able to see cracks in walls as a Dwarf, etc.
- Personal track info in Guitar Hero/Rockband-type games.
- Character sheets in an RPG, so you can see all of your character's info at a glance any time.
Motion Control + Screen = Augmented Reality
- Games that can display new things based on where you're pointing the controller.
- Games that change based on where you are in relation to other players.
- With an away-facing camera, a controller you can 'look through'.
- Games that change based on where you are in relation to other players.
- With an away-facing camera, a controller you can 'look through'.
The touch screen can become a new set of buttons at any time.
- Capable of more buttons than any console controller ever (except that big honkin' PSO Gamecube keyboard).
- A decently sized, off-screen keyboard.
- Context-sensitive buttons, changing as your status or position in the game changes.
- Access to all inventory items / tools / weapons at all times.
- Could allow for MMO-style action bars; a traditional controller has a hard time making, say, 10-15 spells fit comfortably. Now imagine you can just touch a spell icon to cast it.
- A decently sized, off-screen keyboard.
- Context-sensitive buttons, changing as your status or position in the game changes.
- Access to all inventory items / tools / weapons at all times.
- Could allow for MMO-style action bars; a traditional controller has a hard time making, say, 10-15 spells fit comfortably. Now imagine you can just touch a spell icon to cast it.
PSO2 has action bars... and has been announced for PC only... but maybe because Sega hasn't been given permission to reveal it's also hitting on the Wii2.... Ohh, please let this be so...
- Fully Customizable Face Buttons. Imagine you can 'drag' new actions to the XYAB face buttons on the fly;
The touch screen can become a more precise method of controlling things.
- As close to a mouse as consoles could get without an actual mouse/trackball.
- Touch-and-drag unit selection in RTS games.
- RTS-style overhead controls for squad-based shooters.
- Make detailed battle plans in a tactical shooter ("Go here, then here, then take out that guy and I will meet you here")
- "Drawing-based controls".
- Basically all of the touch screen features of DS games.
- Touch-and-drag unit selection in RTS games.
- RTS-style overhead controls for squad-based shooters.
- Make detailed battle plans in a tactical shooter ("Go here, then here, then take out that guy and I will meet you here")
- "Drawing-based controls".
- Draw a line between multiple enemies to aim a boomerang.
- Draw shapes on an overhead map to cast spells like walls of fire, areas of effect, etc.
- Smudge the screen for real-time terrain deforming.
- User-Generated Maps and stages can be built with precise controls.
- Draw shapes on an overhead map to cast spells like walls of fire, areas of effect, etc.
- Smudge the screen for real-time terrain deforming.
- User-Generated Maps and stages can be built with precise controls.
- Basically all of the touch screen features of DS games.
... and I'm tapped out at the moment and need to get some breakfast... but yeah, there's a couple things a touch-screen controller can do. A lot of that is stuff the DS could do, but would be pretty ground breaking when applied to a big-screen console.
If the screen on the controller does not come true then I will truly be disappointRetro said:
You could also use the touchscreen in action games where it becomes a kind of hacking device or an ingame wrist screen that lets you transform weapons. Or an action adventure mixed with Scribblenauts where you are trying to escape and fastly write door to open a path when there is none.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Yeah, the potential applications are almost endless.
Another example:
Adventure games:
The Blade Runner investigation tool:
The screen is streamed to the pad, and the player moves the cursor around with his fingers. He can zoom in and out as he would on an iPhone/iPad screen and so on.
It's definitely not a worthless technology, but it's not priceless. The pad has some serious issues in terms of versatility, and I'm honestly thinking that a detachable screen could be the way to go right now.
Another example:
Adventure games:
The Blade Runner investigation tool:
The screen is streamed to the pad, and the player moves the cursor around with his fingers. He can zoom in and out as he would on an iPhone/iPad screen and so on.
It's definitely not a worthless technology, but it's not priceless. The pad has some serious issues in terms of versatility, and I'm honestly thinking that a detachable screen could be the way to go right now.
izakq said:
Heh, thanks. Once I tossed a couple ideas out there, they snowballed and I had to make a big long list.
Also, during breakfast; imagine having a web browser on the touch screen, accessible mid-game. So, for example, being able to look up a character's move sheet in a fighting game.
12 year old me would have loved this when trying to do all of Mortal Kombat 2's fatalities.
That said, I don't really want an all-in-one device because I feel one of the best reasons console gaming is superior to PC gaming (Yes yes, master race and all that typical PC GAF BS, bugger off) is that the experience is a closed system; Couch > Player > Controller > Game. There aren't MP3 players, web browsers, chat programs, etc. intruding on the experience. It's just you and the game.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Retro said:
+1.
Or 10.
One could call in arguments about personal responsability or restraint, but PC gaming (while absurdely awesome in ten thousand millions way) just isn't as immersive. It's probably a very subjective outlook, but I agree 200%.
VisanidethDM
Banned
M74 said:
It's not the same; this controller will probably be sensibly cheaper than the NGP, and as a mandatory tool, developers will be motivated to integrate its functions in the gameplay.
The NGP-as-a-controller is fundamentally a monstrously expensive peripheral. Insert "peripherals always fail" mantras here.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i keep coming back to METROID PRIME for really cool uses with this thing. you have beam and visor switching on the controller screen. anything scanned, the log pops up on the controller screen, not the tv. god, i would buy the system just for this.
Interfectum
Member
M74 said:
Perhaps the fact that the NGP will then be a $3-400 controller? Who's going to develop games for PS3<->NGP functionality with that kind of price barrier?
Cosmonaut X
Member
M74 said:
Cost and the classic issue with support for an out-of-the-box peripheral. People are already balking at the possibility of $80 controllers, so what do you think happens when you consider a $200+ (at least) handheld/controller? And what percentage of the PS3/PS4 userbase would have both a PS3/PS4 and an NGP, versus the 100% of the Stream userbase who would have this controller?
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
Interfectum said:
but if anything that will give it the air of something very valuable, something to be not only attained but as a symbol of achievement. people seek to gain entrance to the upper middle class, to have the symbols of upper middle class, and sony is cultivating a product which gives that impression. i find this hypothetical strategy by them to have a keen insight into the desires of consumers. i would wager the average person would take up a second job in order to acquire this setup.
The question is, is any of that enough to warrant the screen, or will it just be a gimmick. I'm sure Nintendo, being good designers, will come up with some well implemented uses. So far it sounds like their real intent is to just provide a way to play games when the tv isn't available...
A couple of counterpoints:
You wrote a bunch and I got tired, but so far (we'll see what Nintendo has planned) I haven't seen any argument strong enough to warrant the touchscreen. <--excluding the selling point of not needing the tv.
A couple of counterpoints:
Retro said:
You wrote a bunch and I got tired, but so far (we'll see what Nintendo has planned) I haven't seen any argument strong enough to warrant the touchscreen. <--excluding the selling point of not needing the tv.
VisanidethDM
Banned
beelzebozo said:
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
(Today, 04:59 PM)
Reply | Quote
Couldn't resist, don't take it the wrong way
.VisanidethDM said:
The example I always come back to is this; it's like browsing the web and listening to an MP3 player while you're in a theater. It's not just about attention either; In the same way a director uses subtle audio cues, sometimes a game designer wants you to be in silence, to build tension or slowly build up audio subtly. You can't appreciate those if you've got other crap running at the same time.
That's kind of why I'm against ripping/downloading music to a console too; it just writes over the experience you're supposed to be having (obvious exception being radio stations in GTA, of course).
Maybe I just notice it more since I have dual monitors so I've always got stuff pulled up to the side, but I felt this way before I had them.
Just my two cents. I happen to agree with Nintendo's philosophy that game consoles should be all about the games. /shrug
VisanidethDM
Banned
Retro said:
I appreciate the idea of a console as a multimedia box, but I think the gaming experience should stay secluded. I'm sure there's genres for which stuff like custom soundtracks work and voice chat is essential, but I want to be sure that there's the freedom for the game designer to rule those things out.
If Dark Souls can't shut down voicechat, a part of the value of the experience is lost. And custom soundtracks have no place in a game where the soundtrack is doing what it should.
My main example would be World of Warcraft. I tab out of it a lot, and I love being able to tab out. I hardly feel the need to "tab out" when playing a good, immersive game, and it's a boon than I can't no matter what on consoles.
Another example: Steam. I like Steam, but I'm playing Dark Corners of the Heart and suddenly I get friend chat messages and popups and the immersion is gone.
I don't want to be constantly hooked to the system. Once again, it's the kind of argument you can dismiss with a "durr nobody forces you to be online/tab out/listen to other stuff" (cough comfy couch cough), but I think modern gaming could really benefit from dropping some "multimediality" and user-friendlyness in the name of some more focus on the actual gaming.
I'll say this again: If the screen is strong enough, and the lag is unnoticeable enough, that the game could be played via the screen itself without needing the TV... There are an insane amount of cool ideas that could be done with this setup that go well beyond having the HUD on it. I think Visanideth's ideas, while good, are just scratching the surface of what could be done by imaginative designers.
And no, my comments are not blind Nintendo fandom: I actually despise that the 3DS is centered almost exclusively around adding 3D to the screen. I find that so fundamentally limiting from a functional aspect as to be negligible.
But this? No. This could lead to some truly engaging gameplay and functionality bonuses to gaming as a whole.
And no, my comments are not blind Nintendo fandom: I actually despise that the 3DS is centered almost exclusively around adding 3D to the screen. I find that so fundamentally limiting from a functional aspect as to be negligible.
But this? No. This could lead to some truly engaging gameplay and functionality bonuses to gaming as a whole.
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