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[Davey Cakes]

I want to see best looking Nintendo games period. I am not going to settle for crap just because they are good at art style. Nintendo has the money and history to compete with best in console.

The games that Nintendo will release for Wii U...will be the best looking Nintendo games. The hardware isn't a leap above other consoles but it is a leap above Nintendo's previous consoles. You're going to be getting the best, IN THE CONTEXT OF NINTENDO.

And going by Nintendo Land, the games will be gorgeous.

The leap to HD, even if it doesn't outclass previous HD systems, will do Nintendo wonders. You WILL get "both graphics and gameplay." It won't be the top of the line but it will be the top of Nintendo's line. Are you getting this?

And again, there's too much focus put on raw power anyway. The Wii U isn't just an HD Wii. It comes with a new controller (with new gameplay implications; PLAY NINTENDO LAND), new online features such as Miiverse, the full Virtual Console as well as eShop which is looking great for digital Nintendo releases as well as indie games, etc. A game system is more than just at box that houses graphics and physics; it's a small world that houses all sorts of possibilities.

I'm not going to excuse blind Nintendo fanboys but it's obvious when people enjoy being part of Nintendo's world, enough to look past the company's questionable decisions and focus on the big picture and the overall experience on a more personal level. The problem comes with blind defense rather than making concessions.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Gonna get something off my chest here...

After several days of being continuously nagged by a friend about how bad the Wii U's hardware was, I lost my cool. I asked if he wanted me to smash all my Nintendo games and hardware, admit that I was playing stupid kiddie games and not having TRUE GROWN-UP FUN all these years, then swear never to touch one of their products again. It involved capslock, lots of profanity, and it was an incredibly inappropriate and immature behavior on my part. I apologized profusely for throwing a fanboy tantrum and now... I think I've got it out of my system for good.

I say this because I have a history of being bothered by this stuff. The old Orayn would be behaving REALLY poorly in this thread, but I think I've grown up a little and come to terms with the situation. I don't have to like or defend Nintendo's hardware, nor do I have to stop liking their games because *other people* don't like their hardware decisions. I'm free to make the judgment call that I want the games badly enough to shell out for the underpowered hardware, and hopefully not be mocked too much for that decision.

Feels good, man.

Personally, I don't understand investment at either end of the spectrum. I understand that some Nintendo fans get a sense that others have an ax to grind against Nintendo and will latch on to anything and everything to critique, and that that can be bothersome. For people who actually are like that, it strikes me as kind of odd. Mind you, I'm kind of critical of the hardware, but it's not like I stand to gain anything by rubbing bad news in Nintendo fans faces. "What a great day; I totally owned some people on NeoGaf who were all like 'the Wii U is a pretty good system, bro!' And I was all like 'Nuh uh, bro, did you see that comment by the Metro Guy!'"

Yeah, that's pointless. And honestly, I like Nintendo, and I own a Wii U. But with all that out of the way, I also don't understand why some are so invested in deflecting criticism away from the console. One can concede faults while simultaneously enjoying games on the system. Just because graphics aren't everything doesn't mean that it's unfair to sit back and suggest that there are negative consequences to the way Nintendo designed the hardware that are worthy of critique, even if ultimately Nintendo's decisions prove prudent in the long run.

 

[Camp Lo]

Is there a site with good simplified explanations on how CPU's (and GPU's) differ in technology and how they have changed of the years? I google this all the time but it's too complex to pickup. Not just for the sake of understanding what these specs mean, but to make more informed opinions on console's tech.

This! I feel like i cannot truly comprehend the outrage. Not that it will stop me from buying; wanting Nintendo games in native HD is enough for me to get this eventually.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Is that why the UI supposedly runs like ass? CPU is just struggling on it?

The UI is not chocking the CPU. My own theory is the network is gimped; seems to be the system is just recontacting the Nintendo Network for every new app and almost relogging you for everything you want to access.

You know how when you disable AUTODETECT LAN SETTINGS in Windows, Steam switches tabs 10 times faster? It's probably something like that.

 

[Osiris]

The real Drinky has gone to the great binary beyond. This Drinky is, arguably, a mod conglomerate/conspiracy.

Proof: Unless Drinky has taken computer science classes, he did not have technical knowledge worth beans back in the day.

I think those of us who enjoy his work over at MSDN may disagree with your conclusion there

 

[jackal27]

Why cant it be both? And why dont you want both?

This is what I cant get why people make that ridiculous statement of "I don't play specs""Graphics dont matter" etc. As if the choices are mutually exclusive.

There are part of audience here who cant accept the fact that it might just be incredible for Retro studios to have the same leverage in the console as SSM or ND .

I want to see best looking Nintendo games period. I am not going to settle for crap just because they are good at art style. Nintendo has the money and history to compete with best in console.

I'm not saying that wouldn't love both! I'm not saying that graphics don't matter! I'm not even saying that I wasn't disappointed by the WiiU's specs. I'm saying that choose not to stress about it, because I know that the console will have cool games that still look great. There is no reason for me to be disappointed, worried, or angry.

The WiiU is what it is and I'm here for the games. When it comes down to it, developers will work within the console's limits to bring out games that are unique, fun, and beautiful no matter what. I'm excited at the possibilities of new games on a new console!

The Wii had a bunch of games that I really loved that I couldn't get on my 360 or my PS3. My DS has TONS of games that I love and I can't on my iPhone. The WiiU will have unique, gorgeous games that I can't get elsewhere and that's what I'm after.

 

[gryz]

This! I feel like i cannot truly comprehend the outrage. Not that it will stop me from buying; wanting Nintendo games in native HD is enough for me to get this eventually.

its ok you don't have to understand anything about computer architecture to be an expert about it on neogaf.

 

[Glorified G]

Personally, I don't understand investment at either end of the spectrum. I understand that some Nintendo fans get a sense that others have an ax to grind against Nintendo and will latch on to anything and everything to critique, and that that can be bothersome. For people who actually are like that, it strikes me as kind of odd. Mind you, I'm kind of critical of the hardware, but it's not like I stand to gain anything by rubbing bad news in Nintendo fans faces. "What a great day; I totally owned some people on NeoGaf who were all like 'the Wii U is a pretty good system, bro!' And I was all like 'Nuh uh, bro, did you see that comment by the Metro Guy!'"

Yeah, that's pointless. And honestly, I like Nintendo, and I own a Wii U. But with all that out of the way, I also don't understand why some are so invested in deflecting criticism away from the console. One can concede faults while simultaneously enjoying games on the system. Just because graphics aren't everything doesn't mean that it's unfair to sit back and suggest that there are negative consequences to the way Nintendo designed the hardware that are worthy of critique, even if ultimately Nintendo's decisions prove prudent in the long run.

I don't get it either. At the end of the day, it's a piece of plastic. Who cares if someone else says something negative about it. Brand loyalty is so confusing.

 

[Gahiggidy]

...

I'm saying wii u is a bad system? no, I think I said a lot of times that undoubfully is more powerful (in some ways) than ps360 but the difference is not big that you will see games very different than the ones we can see right now in the current machines.

Even for Nintendo's own big-budget productions?

My expectations are still that the next Zelda and Mario games will look unquestionably more advanced than the best and similar style of games from the last 6 years.

 

[qizah]

How does Assassins creed 3 on wii u compare to the other console versions? It seems pretty cpu heavy. I mean, they could never pull that off on ps3 and 360 during their respective launch windows, so i doubt the wii u is that weak if its capable of matching the "best" of this gen in its launch window. Sure, it might not be the increase people were hoping for, but who honestly imagined wii u being the best console for multiplats next gen? It was always going do its own thing, with 720 and ps4 being the go to guys for most of the mainstream games. A little extra hardware power isnt gonna change that. Might not be the best move for nintendo themselves if they wanted a piece of that pie, but thats not really our problem, we get nintendo titles no matter what.

I've put 30 hours into the game so far, completing the story and doing side stuff and diving into MP.

I haven't noticed anything specific to the Wii U version (it had a day one patch like the other consoles). All the problems it suffers are the same as the 360 and PS3 versions - frame rate, pop in, etc.

 

[radioheadrule83]

So I need to be a huge Nintendo fan to be disappointed now? WTF is this shit. When I say I was anxiously waiting to see if Nintendo would deliver I'm being honest. I'm not happy with what's being put forth. I will buy what's coming out in a year over this AND I will voice my displeasure until then when the topic is being discussed.

WTF is this, indeed. Relax tough guy. You can say and feel whatever you like about it, I didn't say otherwise... just don't expect everyone to sing in chorus with you.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So broadway is a tweaked gamecube CPU. So this is a 1999 architecture running at 1.25 ghz?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

its ok you don't have to understand anything about computer architecture to be an expert about it on neogaf.

As shown by way too many on each side.

So broadway is a tweaked gamecube CPU. So this is a 1999 architecture running at 1.25 ghz?

Not quite, but much closer to reality than I would have thought possible.

 

[Like the hat?]

This thread is funny. These are toys, they are not your children.

there is a place for multiple consoles, and if you can only afford one, you pick the one that will provide the games you want. Wii U isn't going to be able to provide some of the experiences that orbis or Durango go will, big deal. Orbis and Durango won't be able to provide some of the experiences as wii u, either. Unless your livelihood hinges on the clock speed of the Wii u CPU, I don't see the point of getting so upset.

 

[Refreshment.01]

In this monstruosity of a thread, did we got the "i don't care about specs, it's all about the games" hper hypocrite response already?

Don't tell me the usual suspects failed me

 

[Camp Lo]

I don't get it either. At the end of the day, it's a piece of plastic. Who cares if someone else says something negative about it. Brand loyalty is so confusing.

I'm sure that could be said about your favorite whatever-the-hell. We all have vices, man.

 

[Mxrz]

Gonna get something off my chest here...

After several days of being continuously nagged by a friend about how bad the Wii U's hardware was, I lost my cool. I asked if he wanted me to smash all my Nintendo games and hardware, admit that I was playing stupid kiddie games and not having TRUE GROWN-UP FUN all these years, then swear never to touch one of their products again. It involved capslock, lots of profanity, and it was an incredibly inappropriate and immature behavior on my part. I apologized profusely for throwing a fanboy tantrum and now... I think I've got it out of my system for good.

I say this because I have a history of being bothered by this stuff. The old Orayn would be behaving REALLY poorly in this thread, but I think I've grown up a little and come to terms with the situation. I don't have to like Nintendo's hardware decisions, nor do I have to stop liking their games because *other people* don't like their hardware decisions. I'm free to make the judgment call that I want the games badly enough to shell out for the questionable hardware, and hopefully not be mocked too much for that decision.

Feels good, man.

They aren't mutually exclusive. Perceiving criticism and disappointment as 'hate' is the problem. Its a product. A piece of hardware. When a company fucks up, you shouldn't be happy about it or trying to defend or excuse it. Especially if you're a fan of the games. I want the best Zelda possible, just like I want the best Uncharted or best Halo. Gimping the hardware pisses all over that.

 

[P90]

I think those of us who enjoy his work over at MSDN may disagree with your conclusion there

So Drinky took computer science classes? I have not seen him comment about his daughter. Did a search. He has been talking about his daughter. That said, he didn't know ditka about computer tech back in the day.

 

[Meesh]

I just like playing the goddam thing

I want the best Zelda possible, just like I want the best Uncharted or best Halo. Gimping the hardware pisses all over that.

So its official then? Wiiu am gimped?

 

[Log4Girlz]

This thread is funny. These are toys, they are not your children.

there is a place for multiple consoles, and if you can only afford one, you pick the one that will provide the games you want. Wii U isn't going to be able to provide some of the experiences that orbis or Durango go will, big deal. Orbis and Durango won't be able to provide some of the experiences as wii u, either. Unless your livelihood hinges on the clock speed of the Wii u CPU, I don't see the point of getting so upset.

I have this dream where I can get all my Nintendo games, which are awesome, and amazing third party ports due to amazing hardware at a reasonable price. Like imagine it were powerful enough to run any modern engine being developed but at 720 p as opposed to 1080 p. Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

 

[Boss Man]

How does Assassins creed 3 on wii u compare to the other console versions? It seems pretty cpu heavy. I mean, they could never pull that off on ps3 and 360 during their respective launch windows, so i doubt the wii u is that weak if its capable of matching the "best" of this gen in its launch window. Sure, it might not be the increase people were hoping for, but who honestly imagined wii u being the best console for multiplats next gen? It was always going do its own thing, with 720 and ps4 being the go to guys for most of the mainstream games. A little extra hardware power isnt gonna change that. Might not be the best move for nintendo themselves if they wanted a piece of that pie, but thats not really our problem, we get nintendo titles no matter what.

That's what a lot of people tried to say, but it definitely wasn't the consensus. There were some pretty nasty threads about whether or not the Wii U would be on par with "next gen" hardware or whether it would be included more than the Wii was with multiplatform releases. Not the best, obviously, but that it would be an equal player in the third party picture.

The Wii U thread that went on for a while before release was full of people talking about reasons why most PS4/720 games were going to be ported to Wii U. It was the same, "It'll be just like the other two but look slightly worse and also have Nintendo games." argument that was presented for the Wii. I think, in reality, it will end up almost exactly like the Wii did software wise. For a lot of people, that's worth it- but for those who argued so vehemently that the Wii U was going to be on par with PS4/720, apparently they've only convinced themselves that it is.

At the core, there are two separate sides defending what Nintendo has been doing the past couple of generations. Those who will only buy a Nintendo console and want to remain convinced that that's all that matters so they pretend that technological advancement is not extremely important for video games. And those who enjoy Nintendo games and don't care that they'll need another console to experience most of what next gen will have to offer. The former are the ones who are being called out, the latter are just playing video games.

 

[Like the hat?]

I have this dream where I can get all my Nintendo games, which are awesome, and amazing third party ports due to amazing hardware at a reasonable price. Like imagine it were powerful enough to run any modern engine being developed but at 720 p as opposed to 1080 p. Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

If I have a ps3 and want to play halo 4, I have to buy a 360. Some games are not going to be released on some hardware. It has been that way since the dawn of consoles.

Even then though, there is a huge difference between wishing all games were on the one console you want to buy, and throwing a fit about it (not you specifically, just in general)

 

[donny2112]

The mystery of Drinky Crow claims another one!

Why is there no "Thursdayton" definition at KnowYourMemes.com? It's a travesty!

 

[Refreshment.01]

I have this dream where I can get all my Nintendo games, which are awesome, and amazing third party ports due to amazing hardware at a reasonable price. Like imagine it were powerful enough to run any modern engine being developed but at 720 p as opposed to 1080 p. Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

So you are praying for the day when you'll get all your favorite Nintendo franchises in the iOS app store?

 

[Davey Cakes]

They aren't mutually exclusive. Perceiving criticism and disappointment as 'hate' is the problem. Its a product. A piece of hardware. When a company fucks up, you shouldn't be happy about it or trying to defend or excuse it. Especially if you're a fan of the games. I want the best Zelda possible, just like I want the best Uncharted or best Halo. Gimping the hardware pisses all over that.

"The best Zelda possible" would be Zelda running at the highest settings on the most advanced Super PC.

Obviously everyone wants the best, but we all have to make compromises and be realistic.

As it stands, the next Zelda will be on the best Nintendo hardware thus far. It will be the best within Nintendo's own bubble. I think we can afford to appreciate that rather than think more in terms of ideals. If we all focused on ideals it really wouldn't make us enjoy this hobby at all.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So you are praying for the day when you'll get all your favorite Nintendo franchises in iOS app store?

Why would someone want to play videogames on something in the area of a PS2 powerwise?

Thought you guys were wanting more power not less?

 

[radioheadrule83]

Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

You are?

If you feel compelled to buy Nintendo hardware in spite of them not making machines as powerful as you like, perhaps that speaks to how highly you value their games, design and philosophy -- but they are not holding a gun to your head here. Nobody is.

 

[Specialmias]

Man I've lost $600 off of my Nintendo stocks in the past year and I'm nowhere near as mad as some of you guys.

Quick note it was doing okay this week wee

 

[Orayn]

So broadway is a tweaked gamecube CPU. So this is a 1999 architecture running at 1.25 ghz?

We really don't know how much has or hasn't been changed. Even Broadway featured some architectural updates over Gekko, though no changes large enough to break GC compatibility.

On the subject of backwards compatibility, I'm now painfully aware of how trivial it would be to have a whole Wii system of a chip if the Wii U were a more expensive console with higher TDP.

 

[Werhil]

No let me tell you why you're wrong. I can only speak for myself of course but, I am not a graphics whore by any means. But obviously I can appreciate when something looks nice, the Wii U Zelda demo looked great to me. The demo was ps360 level of visuals and there were graphics whores bashing is for looking like ps360 level. Those people are the problem, they can't appreciate something that looks solid. No.. it has to be better than ANYTHING ever released before it. That mindset is just silly and has nothing to do with playing games.

A lot of my favorite games and gaming memories through the years are as much due to great graphics as gameplay. They go hand in hand. Like Soul Calibur on Dreamcast. I will always remember it because it was a blast to play and it looked amazing at the time. If it were released today, despite the gameplay it would not have the same impact, and it would even be fair to pan the graphics. I don't think it makes one a graphics whore to recognize the evolving and relative nature of what is considered good in this regard.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

Well, shit. I don't really have much to add, just that this is turning out to be a real bummer. I mean, I'm sure the U will have some great games, but overall, I think we'll look back at this system and ponder what might have been.

 

[KageMaru]

It isn't. Like I said round and round we go.

Oh ok, as long as we can agree on that. I only notice you calling people out when being illogical against Nintendo, but never for.

I want to ask (again sorry) a question to some people here.

Some of you are saying that devs doesn't have the time to accomodate/learn/etc wii u hardware and this is why ports are running from ok to poorly at launch.

My question is:

- Has been any generation without this same problem?

Developers working on ps3-x360 face the same problems changing from ps2-xbox-gc. First few time like now. But I'll say more than now with wii U. The transition from the ps2 era was HUGE at all levels of development (at least for a big amount of studios that didn't work for pc). In fact we can see all the "victims" of this generation (studios closed because they didn't manage to make the transition) They not only had to work with "HD", they had to learn new gpu capabilities (unified shaders in 360), multi core development (only naming Cell you get the point), new engines, etc.

But surprisingly we see that first games are undoubfully better than the previous generation. Why? Where is the "magic"? Bruteforce, system performance. The gap allow this first developers to put unpolished ports on this machines and they worked better because they have room to do it. In fact you all remember that first ps3 ports only used the PPE without any use of the spu's (or very small use).

So for me, time of development or the learning curve needed to use wii u efficiently is not a valid excuse to have better games than previous generation.

I'm saying wii u is a bad system? no, I think I said a lot of times that undoubfully is more powerful (in some ways) than ps360 but the difference is not big that you will see games very different than the ones we can see right now in the current machines.

Couldn't agree more with your point here. I've said something similar when people say that the system is new and games will look better when they learn the hardware, just like they did this gen.

The learning curve for the Wii-U will be MUCH shorter than that of the PS360. I feel sorry for anyone expecting a PDZ-> Halo 4 or Resistance -> KZ3 type leap because they will be disappointed.

 

[jackal27]

Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

I know, it's not fair. Why can't I play Chrono Trigger on my Sega Genesis?

 

[PhantomR]

I have this dream where I can get all my Nintendo games, which are awesome, and amazing third party ports due to amazing hardware at a reasonable price. Like imagine it were powerful enough to run any modern engine being developed but at 720 p as opposed to 1080 p. Instead i'm pretty much forced to buy more than one console. Hurray.

Okay, I'll bite.


Please define, "reasonable price". If your definition of a reasonable price is $400-450, then ok.

 

[Fenderputty]

WTF is this, indeed. Relax tough guy. You can say and feel whatever you like about it, I didn't say otherwise... just don't expect everyone to sing in chorus with you.

I don't expect everyone to agree. In fact the comment directed at HAL that you quoted said the same thing in different words.

 

[cRIPticon]

Personally, I don't understand investment at either end of the spectrum. I understand that some Nintendo fans get a sense that others have an ax to grind against Nintendo and will latch on to anything and everything to critique, and that that can be bothersome. For people who actually are like that, it strikes me as kind of odd. Mind you, I'm kind of critical of the hardware, but it's not like I stand to gain anything by rubbing bad news in Nintendo fans faces. "What a great day; I totally owned some people on NeoGaf who were all like 'the Wii U is a pretty good system, bro!' And I was all like 'Nuh uh, bro, did you see that comment by the Metro Guy!'"

Yeah, that's pointless. And honestly, I like Nintendo, and I own a Wii U. But with all that out of the way, I also don't understand why some are so invested in deflecting criticism away from the console. One can concede faults while simultaneously enjoying games on the system. Just because graphics aren't everything doesn't mean that it's unfair to sit back and suggest that there are negative consequences to the way Nintendo designed the hardware that are worthy of critique, even if ultimately Nintendo's decisions prove prudent in the long run.

Because the criticism is primarily based on speculation and assumptions? I own each of the current game platforms (Vita and 3DS XL included), and would have no problem defending the other platforms when the arguments come from the same speculation and assumptions.

Well, shit. I don't really have much to add, just that this is turning out to be a real bummer. I mean, I'm sure the U will have some great games, but overall, I think we'll look back at this system and ponder what might have been.

Or maybe we won't. Who knows?!? WAY TOO EARLY to tell.

I don't get it either. At the end of the day, it's a piece of plastic. Who cares if someone else says something negative about it. Brand loyalty is so confusing.

To be fair, my distain for the incomplete judgment comes from technological position, not a branding position. However, several people in the thread MAKE this a "Nintender is DUMMBB herr herr" discussion. Lets talk to developers who are building on competent, mature engines that utilize the architecture of the WiiU to its best potential and then decide. We have to wait as much of the technology is still in its early stages.

 

[Refreshment.01]

Why would someone want to play videogames on something in the area of a PS2 powerwise?

Thought you guys were wanting more power not less?

No problems there then Thunder, thanks to Nintendo fantastic hardware choices maybe before the WiiU life cycle comes to a close you'll see idevices that surpasses it's processing abilities.

 

[soulassssns]

So who is this guy and why should I take what he found as fact?

 

[Thoraxes]

*Reads the OP*

Oh, so then I hope they get more info about the pipeline then. There must be something different regarding that and the pipeline and architecture of the system to get the kind of performance they have been, especially considering his twitter comments. I like that he directly says not to make direct comparisons because it's not the same. I look forward to seeing why.

Hopefully they discover more soon for us. Right now it seems that without decent optimization and knowledge of the system, ports for games will be difficult for 3rd parties to make, which, while common with all new systems, is still a sometimes painful part of the process for consumers.

Well, shit. I don't really have much to add, just that this is turning out to be a real bummer. I mean, I'm sure the U will have some great games, but overall, I think we'll look back at this system and ponder what might have been.

Come with me, and let's look at the lifecycle of the Wii.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Wow.

That is all you can say since everything has been said already.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Because the criticism is primarily based on speculation and assumptions? I own each of the current game platforms (Vita and 3DS XL included), and would have no problem defending the other platforms when the arguments come from the same speculation and assumptions.

The Wii U is out there right now with games that can be played and measured against other games. People are taking apart the hardware and trying to reach hard numbers as to what it's capable of. I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to argue. It's hardware available to the public that is being critiqued. I know there has been some positive commentary, but there's been plenty of negative commentary and skepticism as well.

The Wii U isn't an enigma wrapped in a mystery that can only be observed behind closed doors.

 

[Orayn]

Well, shit. I don't really have much to add, just that this is turning out to be a real bummer. I mean, I'm sure the U will have some great games, but overall, I think we'll look back at this system and ponder what might have been.

I had been wishing for a Wiimote 2.0 that would work something like this prior to the GamePad rumors taking shape.

The hardware is a lesser concern, as I remember resigning myself to "in line with 360/PS3 or maybe a little better" months before E3, desite my optimistic side running away with my common sense after the announcement. I also speculated about something resembling Miiverse, and Nintendo using social gaming as a selling point... Wow. Just now realizing how much of it I got right.

 

[Kenka]

Am I dreaming? I thought DrinkyCow got banned long before merely 50 minutes ago.

 

[Jackben]

Am I dreaming? I thought DrinkyCow got banned long ago.

He's not banned, his name is just gray and he has a joke tag, like Wario64.

 

[djtiesto]

I fail to understand why the existence of beautiful visuals (art and tech) must make a mechanical difference to gameplay in order to appreciate the value of them. Who doesn't enjoy beautiful visuals, and why? Downplaying their importance reeks of cognitive dissonance.

Edit: This is not necessarily directed at you.

Well, I'm one of those people who much prefer art to tech, definitely (I am more impressed with something like Xenoblade or Okami then I am Crysis for instance). Good graphics are nice to have but there are times when companies sacrifice other things to have them. Of course I also prefer Japanese gaming to western and it seems that some Japanese devs with their smaller budgets and dev teams have more trouble keeping up in the technological rat-race - so I think pushing graphics complexity too hard will make them take even longer to release their console games (see: Versus or The Last Guardian).

I am also a fan of classic gaming and spend lots of my game time playing game titles not on the cutting edge of things.

So no, graphics aren't really that important to me in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Raonak]

Underpowered device is underpowered.

It's basically gonna be a box to play HD nintendo games and thats pretty much it.


makes me really question that Zelda tech demo we saw.

 

[cRIPticon]

The Wii U is out there right now with games that can be played and measured against other games. People are taking apart the hardware and trying to reach hard numbers as to what it's capable of. I'm not sure if I understand what you're trying to argue. It's hardware available to the public that is being critiqued. I know there has been some positive commentary, but there's been plenty of negative commentary and skepticism as well.

The Wii U isn't an enigma wrapped in a mystery that can only be observed behind closed doors.

Launch games vs. EOL games for current platforms? Great comparison. And, as I stated before, measuring the performance of individual components does not matter much if you don't look at the system holistically. Couldn't do it for the Genesis/SNES, couldn't do it for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBox, couldn't do it for the PS3/360. Why do you think you can do it now?

 

[Refreshment.01]

Because the criticism is primarily based on speculation and assumptions? I own each of the current game platforms (Vita and 3DS XL included), and would have no problem defending the other platforms when the arguments come from the same speculation and assumptions.

Speculation and asumptions? No cRIPticon, they are based on facts. Look at the ported software running worse than a 7 year old console.

Now the bar has been moved back, instead of more powerful than 360/PS3 the defence strives to prove that at least on equal grounds of performance to ancient hardware.

Save for the most fervent of Nintendo aficionados, there's not really much compeiling reasons to own the console. Let's hope this changes in the future.

 

[Boss Man]

Launch games vs. EOL games for current platforms? Great comparison. And, as I stated before, measuring the performance of individual components does not matter much if you don't look at the system holistically. Couldn't do it for the Genesis/SNES, couldn't do it for the Dreamcast/PS2/XBox, couldn't do it for the PS3/360. Why do you think you can do it now?

You left an important one out that you could do it for. I also don't recall a "next-gen" system ever being decidedly equivalent to (or less than) previous gen systems, even at launch. I've heard, "It doesn't look better enough." But never "Hey it's early and it looks almost as good." I guess you could make the argument that this generation has been a long one, with extra time to master the hardware, but I still don't think it's excusable if you're expecting the Wii U to compare to what's probably coming next year.

I had been wishing for a Wiimote 2.0 that would work something like this prior to the GamePad rumors taking shape.

Move has been so disappointing. It really does do what it's supposed to do very well. It's a shame that no one gives a damn about it at all. There's like, that one part in LBP2 or something. I wish Nintendo had gone that route as well.

 

[cRIPticon]

Speculation and asumptions? No cRIPticon, they are based on facts. Look at the ported software running worse than a 7 year old console.

Now the bar has been moved back, instead of more powerful than 360/PS3 the defence strives to prove that at least on equal grounds of performance.

Ported versions compared to the game on another console that has been optimized for said console? On technology that has been optimized and refined over a multi year run? Uh, ok then...