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[scitek]

You should do a price chart just for fun.

All that research and development for backwards compatibility, small form factor and a low res tablet with single touch resistive screen and specs that barely keep up with consoles released 7-8 years ago. Only for a low price of $300

Well the backward compatibility is nice since it lets you sell your Wii to recoup some of the cost of the Wii U. If you don't care about losing the GameCube BC, anyway.

 

[Hakai]

I'm more amazed over the fact that there are still people who really cares.

I mean they are showing games that look fun and great to play, but still what it matters are a couple of numbers?

 

[[Fugo]]

This. It was never going to be as powerful as the new (almost) HD twins, so who cares. A bit more of extra power wouldn't have changed anything.

I agree. Well If the power was cut by half or something it would be a big deal anyway, but I don't think it's the case...

 

[fred]

Why did they severely bottleneck their console by going with a CPU solution apparently pretty much entirely for easy backwards compatibility?

Trying to make sense out of Nintendo decisions is sometimes almost a game in itself lol...

They've designed the Wii U from the ground up to avoid bottlenecks.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

This. It was never going to be as powerful as the new (almost) HD twins, so who cares. A bit more of extra power wouldn't have changed anything.

More power is always good and the cut is significant. Maybe you don't care but is not like it dosn't actually matters in the long term in regards of performance and graphic evolution of the system.

 

[scitek]

They've designed the Wii U from the ground up to avoid bottlenecks.

Is it comparable to the GameCube at all in that regard? I remember hearing the GameCube was engineered exceptionally well.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

I'm more amazed over the fact that there are still people who really cares.

I mean they are showing games thath look fun and great to play, but still what it matters are a couple of numbers?

AND look great.

 

[Corronchilejano]

You should do a price chart just for fun.

All that research and development for backwards compatibility, small form factor and a low res tablet with single touch resistive screen and specs that barely keep up with consoles released 7-8 years ago. Only for a low price of $300

Except for BLOPS 2 (which compares the same as other current Gen counterparts) every port looks and runs better on the Wii U. The Wii U is a better built machine than the 360 and the PS3 and it shows.

So it doesn't "barely" keep up, whatever graphs say.

 

[prag16]

Don't understand the meltdowns really over this RUMOR.

This is somewhat confirmation on the numbers that were floating around in the Latte thread. I don't care anymore after seeing by myself what the little console can do plus the gamepad, which is the best feature in the console.

Basically after looking at the games released and coming I am pretty satisfied with the Wii U and its main feature. It is a Nintendo games machine and some cross gen ports in my case are better played on the Wii U, that is all there is to it, I can take some games looking worse but with the gamepad.

This. These numbers were already regarded as likely in the GPU thread. Now that we have *possible* confirmation (though just a rumor) suddenly the Wii U's games look worse or something?

I don't think a lot of this is true melting down. Rather, a lot of concern trolling and anti-Nintendo circle jerking.

 

[lyrick]

Was anything actually confirmed or is this whole thread based on assumption and speculation?

Was the original Die shot ever confirmed to be on a 55nm or 40nm Fabrication?

How was the 160:8:8 core configuration derived?

 

[Unknown One]

It's not cheap to make, it costs $400. And thats taking into account Sony can subsidize manufacturing costs since they are the hardware manufacturers themselves, Nintendo has to rely on third parties, so it's more expensive for them.

Wii-U cost Nintendo over 300 to make. They are losing money as on each unit well. Inefficient for such a weak machine.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Wii-U cost Nintendo over 300 to make. They are losing money as on each unit well. Inefficient for such a weak machine.

Apparently its between $180 and $230, so it's not actually losing money right now.

 

[javac]

Apparently its between $180 and $230, so it's not actually losing money right now.

Packed in with a game, packaging and all that other stuff is added in.

 

[Minions]

Apparently its between $180 and $230, so it's not actually losing money right now.

I wouldn't bet on that. They would not be in the red if that were the case.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

So why does the Xbox One have a slightly higher prim than the PS4? CPU?

 

[Dictator93]

So why does the Xbox One have a slightly higher prim than the PS4? CPU?

it has the same CPU but it is higher clocked.

 

[Rizsparky]

At this point, I don't see how it matters.

Exactly, why would anybody care now?

 

[fred]

People having kittens over this rumour need to calm down and do the following:

1) Look at demos/trailers of Bayonetta 2

2) Look at demos/trailers of X

3) Look at demos/trailers of Mario Kart 8

4) Look at demos/trailers/ads for Super Mario 3D World

5) Play Pikmin 3

6) Play The Wonderful 101

If it is 160:8:8 then there has to be something going on inside that box, call it 'special sauce' or any other term you want, that makes the above possible. Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

 

[phosphor112]

Well the backward compatibility is nice since it lets you sell your Wii to recoup some of the cost of the Wii U. If you don't care about losing the GameCube BC, anyway.

Selling your Wii right now will get you MAYBE 30 bucks. It's not like selling a PS3 where it would get you closer to 80-90 bucks.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

People having kittens over this rumour need to calm down and do the following:

1) Look at demos/trailers of Bayonetta 2

2) Look at demos/trailers of X

3) Look at demos/trailers of Mario Kart 8

4) Look at demos/trailers/ads for Super Mario 3D World

5) Play Pikmin 3

6) Play The Wonderful 101

If it is 160:8:8 then there has to be something going on inside that box, call it 'special sauce' or any other term you want, that makes the above possible. Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

Basically, this.

No first party published game so far I have seen has missed the mark at all when it comes to visuals.

The Wii U has a lot of problems, good looks is not one of them.

 

[phosphor112]

The Wii U hardware is a lot more efficient. It also has an Out of Order CPU, which the PS3 and 360 have. So, on top of the API and hardware advances, you have higher optimizations and more ram. Wii U games will look better with less power. That's why looking at the PS3 and then the PS4 isn't a "straight 10x" increase (closer to 7 or 8x), but the performance increase is actually closer to 10. Less flops can do more these days. Especially if you look at all the other improvements in the hardware as well.

 

[scitek]

Selling your Wii right now will get you MAYBE 30 bucks. It's not like selling a PS3 where it would get you closer to 80-90 bucks.

The other thing to note is that since the Wii U's been so undesirable, some people are off-loading theirs for cheap. I bought my basic model with 6 games, a Wii U Pro controller, and an extra 8GB memory stick for $200 cash back in June.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

People having kittens over this rumour need to calm down and do the following:

1) Look at demos/trailers of Bayonetta 2

3) Look at demos/trailers of Mario Kart 8

If it is 160:8:8 then there has to be something going on inside that box, call it 'special sauce' or any other term you want, that makes the above possible. Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

I played Bayonetta 2 and Mario Kart 8 demos, then I went to the Xbox One demos...

You're wrong. Mario Kart 8 looks beautiful, but there's no special sauce there, just artistic quality. Difference is almost next-gen vs last-gen.

 

[Lonely1]

Too bad that Nintendo isn't interested on die shrinks. Imagine how small a disc drive-less 20 nm Wii U could be.

 

[scitek]

People that expected Nintendo to go from the Wii to the PS4 power-wise weren't really being realistic, in my opinion. I don't know that any company's ever made THAT huge of a leap in a single generation.

 

[TheGreatMightyPoo]

People that expected Nintendo to go from the Wii to the PS4 power-wise weren't really being realistic, in my opinion. I don't know that any company's ever made THAT huge of a leap in a single generation.

I just wanted a much more powerful console than the Wii and we got it.

I think Nintendo looks at it that way too, progress from their own machine last time around.

Many don't feel that's smart but it personally hasn't made me feel displeased...that is, unless the console has a short lifespan and despite a lot going wrong for it, there are no signs of that.

 

[artist]

So why does the Xbox One have a slightly higher prim than the PS4? CPU?

See;

Same number of geometry engines but lower clock speed (800 vs 853).

Dont worry though the deficit is hardly meaningful.

And not this;

it has the same CPU but it is higher clocked.

 

[scitek]

I just wanted a much more powerful console than the Wii and we got it.

I think Nintendo looks at it that way too, progress from their own machine last time around.

Many don't feel that's smart but it personally hasn't made me feel displeased...that is, unless the console has a short lifespan and despite a lot going wrong for it, there are no signs of that.

I don't think it'll last 6 years like the Wii did, but I don't really care about its power, to be honest. I care about what developers do with it, and most of the ones I'll buy games from use it wisely. If there's a multiplatform game that performs poorly, or looks subpar, I have a capable PC instead.

 

[QaaQer]

Did you just quote yourself?

good way to bump up citation rates when trying to stay on tenure track, hehehehe.

 

[lherre]

I played Bayonetta 2 and Mario Kart 8 demos, then I went to the Xbox One demos...

You're wrong. Mario Kart 8 looks beautiful, but there's no special sauce there, just artistic quality. Difference is almost next-gen vs last-gen.

Yes, I don't know why people don't think that with better hardware Nintendo games will be better that the ones that have been already shown.

Better hardware is not a bad thing ... how can it be a bad thing?

 

[belmonkey]

Are ALUs equivalent to shaders? I've got a medium-end school laptop from 2010 that has 400 shaders, 8 ROPs, and 20 TMUs, and this laptop is pretty bad.

 

[Goodlife]

Better hardware is not a bad thing ... how can it be a bad thing?

$599

 

[Van Owen]

$599

$399

 

[lightchris]

Are ALUs equivalent to shaders? I've got a medium-end school laptop from 2010 that has 400 shaders, 8 ROPs, and 20 TMUs, and this laptop is pretty bad.

In this case yes. Your laptop's GPU (should be one of the HD 5000 series) is at least twice as strong but will obviously draw more power.
On the whole it's not quite comparable though since your laptop has dedicated VRAM with higher bandwidth but no eDRAM. Depending on the situation this can be advantegeus or disadvantageous

 

[thejazzking]

LOOK AT THAT BALANCE!

To the people saying things like this...

I may have misinterpreted, but artist said that he used the Wii U as a baseline. So I think everything has been normalised against the Wii U, including the Wii U data.

E.g. each of the values for the Wii U in reality could be wildly different, say, 100 20 40 95, but everything is divided by the Wii U numbers. Therefore the Wii U figures are all 1, and everything else is compared to that.

They are not absolute values, so you can say that the PS4 prim rate is almost 3 times that of the Wii U. But you can't say that the Wii Us pixel fill and prim rate are the same (both having a value of 1) because that data is in comparison to itself. It is the baseline.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I wouldn't bet on that. They would not be in the red if that were the case.

Manufacturing costs aside, Nintendo could be making money off every console and still be on the red because sales have been abismal compared to projections.

 

[wsippel]

Apparently its between $180 and $230, so it's not actually losing money right now.

The hardware was always and still is sold at a loss. This was confirmed by Nintendo on multiple occasions.

 

[LeleSocho]

People having kittens over this rumour need to calm down and do the following:

1) Look at demos/trailers of Bayonetta 2

2) Look at demos/trailers of X

3) Look at demos/trailers of Mario Kart 8

4) Look at demos/trailers/ads for Super Mario 3D World

5) Play Pikmin 3

6) Play The Wonderful 101

If it is 160:8:8 then there has to be something going on inside that box, call it 'special sauce' or any other term you want, that makes the above possible. Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

I saw all the things you mentioned and all i have to say is welcome to 2008
also lol at the bolded.
It's ok to like things but nothing will make the wii u a machine capable of doing things much above 360 and ps3.

 

[SmokyDave]

Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

I have no idea how you arrived at that conclusion.

 

[seattle6418]

Except for BLOPS 2 (which compares the same as other current Gen counterparts) every port looks and runs better on the Wii U. The Wii U is a better built machine than the 360 and the PS3 and it shows.

So it doesn't "barely" keep up, whatever graphs say.

Newer architechture means it can keep up with PS360 using less horsepower. What´s troubling is that this isn´t enough, based on the rception it has received so far.

The Wii U hardware is a lot more efficient. It also has an Out of Order CPU, which the PS3 and 360 have. So, on top of the API and hardware advances, you have higher optimizations and more ram. Wii U games will look better with less power. That's why looking at the PS3 and then the PS4 isn't a "straight 10x" increase (closer to 7 or 8x), but the performance increase is actually closer to 10. Less flops can do more these days. Especially if you look at all the other improvements in the hardware as well.

This explains better why it can do more with less/same power.

 

[megabytecr]

As long as the games keep looking as impressive I have no problem, this is not something new, we already knew that, people that are shocked just had wrong expectations.

So far for me Wii U has been great:

-Free Online
-Gamepad --> Off TV play, the best feature
-Miiverse: The userbase is low but the community is great, here in GAF and in general.
-Ports had problems but now are starting to look and run better, this should only get better if it continues to get support.

 

[Powerwing]

Shin'en's comment on Twitter seems contradictory :

Our devkits replacements got faster.

 

[iamaustrian]

I'm more amazed over the fact that there are still people who really cares.

I mean they are showing games that look fun and great to play, but still what it matters are a couple of numbers?

yeah it's sad
It's funny that usualy the people who don't own a WiiU or sold it hop into these threads to give their "2 cents" ("Nintendo is cheap, sucks blablabla")
why do they even care?

 

[SmokyDave]

yeah it's sad
It's funny that usualy the people who don't own a WiiU or sold it hop into these threads to give their "2 cents" ("Nintendo is cheap, sucks blablabla")
why do they even care?

The only people that shouldn't post in these threads are people that don't care, or people that don't understand why others care.

Nobody gives a shit about measuring 'fun' in a tech discussion.

 

[tipoo]

Have not read all of this thread, but 1:1 for ROPs and TMUs is odd. Usually it's 1:2. My old laptops 4570 for instance had 4 ROPs and 8 TMUs.

 

[jay]

Nintendo simply designed a console entirely for Japan. As planned, this strategy is paying off in spades.

 

[Sickboy007]

Good job killing any chance of getting multiplatform releases in the near future.

Relax, people, Nintendo have the best hardware engineers in the business and know what they're doing.

That's just delusional.

 

[Argyle]

Even if true, theoretical specs-wise, they probably hoped that their heavy customizations to the SoC would allow developers to still surpass both Xbox 360 and PS3 if they adapted their engines to the way that makes the Wii U sing so to speak, which is not easy for launch multi platform ports. That would be in line with what we got at launch too.

If so, they are clearly nuts. The CPU is IMHO weaker than the CPU in the 360, to the point where no amount of adaptation/optimization will bring the game over 100% if you're CPU bound on 360 (even NFS shows evidence of this with reduced player counts in online), and then the GPU seems like it is barely faster, if it is even faster at all - this explains why CoD hasn't been running in a higher resolution on WiiU than on current gen.

IMHO they built the exact opposite machine than the one they had to build this time around. I think they needed to hit "360+" so that current gen ports would be trivial (so that they would happen even with a limited userbase) - basically slightly more powerful than 360 in both CPU and GPU. Then with a stream of multiplatform games that run a little better than current gen (imagine if the WiiU was the best place to play GTA5 today!) plus their exclusive content, they would have had a better chance to build a significant userbase ahead of next gen. Sadly instead we got watered down or no current gen ports (since some games cannot be easily ported over, like games on Frostbite which are well parallelized and use the CPU effectively on current gen)...and if they missed this target because of an obsession with the size of the case means they have serious problems with their overall vision, I think.

 

[plagiarize]

To the people saying things like this...

I may have misinterpreted, but artist said that he used the Wii U as a baseline. So I think everything has been normalised against the Wii U, including the Wii U data.

E.g. each of the values for the Wii U in reality could be wildly different, say, 100 20 40 95, but everything is divided by the Wii U numbers. Therefore the Wii U figures are all 1, and everything else is compared to that.

They are not absolute values, so you can say that the PS4 prim rate is almost 3 times that of the Wii U. But you can't say that the Wii Us pixel fill and prim rate are the same (both having a value of 1) because that data is in comparison to itself. It is the baseline.

I'm pretty sure you've got that right.

 

[lyrick]

Have not read all of this thread, but 1:1 for ROPs and TMUs is odd. Usually it's 1:2. My old laptops 4570 for instance had 4 ROPs and 8 TMUs.

1:1 ROPS to Texture units is not common at all and does not happen in the R730 , R770, Ceder, Caicos, Redwood, Juniper, or Turks designs. Unfortunately this probably only means people will try to make the assumption that there are only 4 ROPs.