I don't understand where you're getting at with this. Including Wii chips so they could use completely different architecture? Either way, if that sort of stuff didn't "kill pockets", why did Sony only include hardware BC in US (and Japan?) and cut it off shortly after that?
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Wii U Launch Sales Age- What went wrong?
- Thread starter schuelma
- Start date
I don't understand where you're getting at with this. Including Wii chips so they could use completely different architecture? Either way, if that sort of stuff didn't "kill pockets", why did Sony only include hardware BC in US (and Japan?) and cut it off shortly after that?
3DS will definitly not surpass the DS in sales. The products are too similar,and Nintendo is running out of ideas for dual screen, touch handheld mechanics. Maybe they'll come up with some new properties that will be big hits, but the DS was exceptional and a very hard target tp reach.
Wii U, however, does have a completely new interface and Wiimotes are so widespread that developers should have no problems supporting motion games. Miiverse, Wiimotes and the Gamepad offer a very flexible environment to make innovative games, much moreso then the 3DS.
StreetsAhead
Member
If people are going to judge purely on size, rather than reading the least, that's not my problem!
The thread is about its launch, not first year. And it's been out two months, not barely a year
PS3.. supply constrained? I don't believe it
what?
Kacho
Member
I think Nintendo truly believed that Mario and Nintendo Land would help drive strong sales and it didn't work out too well for them.
The Wii U VC and delayed release of TVii speaks volumes about how prepared they were.
Also, crummy and forgettable marketing.
I love me some Nintendo, but they need to right a lot of things if they hope to remain relevant and successful.
The Wii U VC and delayed release of TVii speaks volumes about how prepared they were.
Also, crummy and forgettable marketing.
I love me some Nintendo, but they need to right a lot of things if they hope to remain relevant and successful.
Lmao I meant for 360 hahahaha
dragonflys545
Member
Missing Pokemon U.
I don't have time to write up a comprehensive reply because I'm at work but one thing I'd like to say is this whole holding back of announcements until a game is almost out is a disaster. It ostracises media who thrive and rely on tidbits of upcoming games. It creates a sense that nothing is coming for the system as well. Whoever came up with this dumb idea needs to go.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
- One part price.
- One part "It's a Wii with a Tablet, wait the Wii is in the closet and I have a tablet anyway".
- One part competition within gaming; typically a new console launches as the old consoles wind down and really sets itself apart. The Wii U more directly engages the PS3/360 than any prior first-to-launch system, I think. For example, the 360 set itself apart from the PS2 by having a hard drive, downloadable games, online gameplay, and high definition. The PS3 had Blu Ray. Many of the Wii U's selling points: media capabilities, online capabilities, high definition are reflected in competition. The tablet is the unique selling point, really, and see #2.
- One part software, although I'd note I did expect software uptake to be much higher despite this. Let me note that I feel like software prices are in grave danger. I really am a believer that mobile has permanently disrupted software pricing expectations for a number of genres of game. This doesn't mean nothing can succeed at $60, but I really do feel like large swaths of the software ecosystem that existed before won't exist going forward.
- With respect to third party support, I have two apparently contradictory observations: The first is that Nintendo does not have good third party relationships, and I think there are a number of reasons behind that but #1 with a bullet is "They are a Japanese company who thinks Japanese in how they design and approach things and operates out of Japan and they seem fundamentally unwilling to adopt a western-focused mindset". The second is that I don't think good third party relationships will do all that much. Games cost a lot to make. They need to sell a ton to break even. Short of outright buying development of games, I don't think third party publishers are going to commit exclusive content. There's essentially no upside. Look at the 360's exclusives the last few years: a few low-end PC+360 games, and then the stuff Microsoft made. Look at the PS3's exclusives the last few years: a few low-end Japanese games, and then the stuff Sony made. The age of third-parties actually building exclusives is over. I don't think it's going to come back. I think ZombiU is actually bigger, higher budget, and higher profile that we would expect to be exclusive, and a testament to Ubisoft's culture of trying to have a big launch presence on every system. I don't think this is going to get better.
- I'd also argue that the 460k isn't terrible news--I don't think comparing launches is all that useful because I don't think launches matter all that much. The real question is what the trajectory is, whether or not they can get a good first year ramp up going, get costs under control so that they can sweat out slower software uptake, convince developers to keep working on it, and get out popular and profitable first-party software. I do think people who are both bullish and bearish on the Wii U are being premature. Let me be clear that I'm not saying 460k is a good figure by any means, I'm simply saying launches aren't all that important.
I'm not sure marketing matters. Marketing can only sell the product that exists, and I think the product itself has problems. I do think the Basic/Deluxe distinction was idiotic and confusing. I don't think a marketing blitz would have done anything to address any of the above issues.
- One part "It's a Wii with a Tablet, wait the Wii is in the closet and I have a tablet anyway".
- One part competition within gaming; typically a new console launches as the old consoles wind down and really sets itself apart. The Wii U more directly engages the PS3/360 than any prior first-to-launch system, I think. For example, the 360 set itself apart from the PS2 by having a hard drive, downloadable games, online gameplay, and high definition. The PS3 had Blu Ray. Many of the Wii U's selling points: media capabilities, online capabilities, high definition are reflected in competition. The tablet is the unique selling point, really, and see #2.
- One part software, although I'd note I did expect software uptake to be much higher despite this. Let me note that I feel like software prices are in grave danger. I really am a believer that mobile has permanently disrupted software pricing expectations for a number of genres of game. This doesn't mean nothing can succeed at $60, but I really do feel like large swaths of the software ecosystem that existed before won't exist going forward.
- With respect to third party support, I have two apparently contradictory observations: The first is that Nintendo does not have good third party relationships, and I think there are a number of reasons behind that but #1 with a bullet is "They are a Japanese company who thinks Japanese in how they design and approach things and operates out of Japan and they seem fundamentally unwilling to adopt a western-focused mindset". The second is that I don't think good third party relationships will do all that much. Games cost a lot to make. They need to sell a ton to break even. Short of outright buying development of games, I don't think third party publishers are going to commit exclusive content. There's essentially no upside. Look at the 360's exclusives the last few years: a few low-end PC+360 games, and then the stuff Microsoft made. Look at the PS3's exclusives the last few years: a few low-end Japanese games, and then the stuff Sony made. The age of third-parties actually building exclusives is over. I don't think it's going to come back. I think ZombiU is actually bigger, higher budget, and higher profile that we would expect to be exclusive, and a testament to Ubisoft's culture of trying to have a big launch presence on every system. I don't think this is going to get better.
- I'd also argue that the 460k isn't terrible news--I don't think comparing launches is all that useful because I don't think launches matter all that much. The real question is what the trajectory is, whether or not they can get a good first year ramp up going, get costs under control so that they can sweat out slower software uptake, convince developers to keep working on it, and get out popular and profitable first-party software. I do think people who are both bullish and bearish on the Wii U are being premature. Let me be clear that I'm not saying 460k is a good figure by any means, I'm simply saying launches aren't all that important.
I'm not sure marketing matters. Marketing can only sell the product that exists, and I think the product itself has problems. I do think the Basic/Deluxe distinction was idiotic and confusing. I don't think a marketing blitz would have done anything to address any of the above issues.
JordanN
Banned
Yeah, I just realized that mistake. Going to edit it.
Projectjustice
Banned
NeonZ
Member
Isn't that exactly the problem with the Wii U hardware? It sounds like parts of its chipset are directly based on the Wii's, likely for backwards compatibility, rather than just straight modern hardware
The WiiU's problem is that it launched with nothing *new*. Every game for the system is either a port or a known quantity. There's no game that stands out and makes people go, "Such a game exists? I've got to try that!" the way Wii Sports or Mario 64 did. Nintendo didn't really give people a reason to buy the system other than It's New and Has Mario!
chertipros
Member
What is YNN?
StreetsAhead
Member
There will be a spin off (Maybe a 6th Gen Stadium-type battle simulator) within the next 14 months,
And power determines the software.
People aren't dumb. They know they put their Wii's in closets or under other consoles as every major 3rd party game went to other platforms. The wii was a fluke.
Does anyone seriously think the 720/PS4 are going to have a software drought a month after release.
Fatalmephisto
Member
The Wii U will do perfectly fine this generation. Once E3 2013 hits this year. The Big games will be announced, not just from a first party stand point but from 3rd party as well. I believe Nintendo has a bunch of 3rd party exclusives coming that a lot of you are not even going to expect (I hope)
Thanks for the thoughts. It is certainly possible I'm overreacting- I think I'm just seeing the impending Microsoft juggernaut and not seeing an easy road in the U.S. We'll see though..
shinra-bansho
Member
Relying on a "hook" that people don't "get" and if they do may not care about.
dragonflys545
Member
For the next 2 months, Wii U numbers will go even lower. Just look at those games(NONE)!!! LOL! I'm guessing we'll see an increase after Pikmin 3 comes out.
No
Second month sales are NOT the reason the launch is not good.
If you actually compare it just strictly to the numbers of other launches the Wii U did OK.
AniHawk's reasons are much more valid why the Wii U launch is troublesome. Of course that's just IMO.
If one of the reasons for lukewarm sales is that people don't know about the console and don't know what it does, I think marketing would absolutely help. Spreading the message that it can play all those Wii games and by extension all its VC catalog and showing what the controller can do would raise interest.
Wii U's numbers have been okay, not great, but not doomed either. The sparse release schedule through E3 is worrying, however. Nintendo needs to fill out the schedule somehow, even if it's just reaching out to indies to get stuff on the eshop. They really need 1-2 big titles (not Pikmin) and a $50 price drop IMO.
Isn't nintendo considering all their games as "launch" games over the next 6 months? So wait til their first christmas to see how the launch did. Or maybe the 2nd christmas.
BriseFlots
Member
Is it really that bad?
I think it is doing well enough. Not well, but well enough.
I mean all new consoles at launch have poor line-ups and we enter in the post Christmas part of the year where consoles don't sell much anyway.
I actually thing that it was a pretty good timing for Wii U launch because the "no game'S land" happens when people wouldn't buy it even if games were there.
Now wait another 3 months, see what is coming and it will sell high numbers every week again.
No need to panic at this point.
I think it is doing well enough. Not well, but well enough.
I mean all new consoles at launch have poor line-ups and we enter in the post Christmas part of the year where consoles don't sell much anyway.
I actually thing that it was a pretty good timing for Wii U launch because the "no game'S land" happens when people wouldn't buy it even if games were there.
Now wait another 3 months, see what is coming and it will sell high numbers every week again.
No need to panic at this point.
StreetsAhead
Member
It's a partially paid/registered video service, seems similar to Hulu.
yeah, but also at a higher price.
-Price. Too expensive with no proven value to most people.
-Stupid naming. People don't even know it exists and ones who do think it's a Wii add-on.
-No games. Speaks for itself, NSMB is done as far as moving 20+ million. Hell it might not even get 10 unless the bulk of that is in japan.
-Stupid naming. People don't even know it exists and ones who do think it's a Wii add-on.
-No games. Speaks for itself, NSMB is done as far as moving 20+ million. Hell it might not even get 10 unless the bulk of that is in japan.
For the mass audience, I think marketing was definitely the biggest problem. Whatever word of mouth got the Wii out there just didn't show up for the Wii U, and the OP is right about the hype machine not building. Nintendo needs to do something about this, and they need to do it this spring, preferably around the time Wii Fit U comes out. I think it'll be a real bad omen if that game fails.
With core gamers I never thought the Wii U was going to be a massive hit. Something as new as the GamePad doesn't show its appeal to core gamers immediately. The DS didn't until its second year when excellent games actually started coming out using the touch screen. That alone was never going to have the immediate appeal of shiny new graphics. I was hoping that maybe the 3rd party games on Wii U would look slightly better (like what console ports look like on PC), but even then Nintendo probably wouldn't have one of their core franchise games out to pull in the core gamer. They're probably still working on ways for that to happen.
On the whole insular development thing, I definitely also believe that there exists some kind of philosophical divide between Nintendo and western game developers. For starters it seems like no Japanese publisher or developer at all really understands western game development, possibly because they don't understand where it came from -- PC development. Even if they did or do understand though (the publishers making engines like Capcom, Square Enix, and Konami might), I still think it's also a matter of a deliberate choice not to always make games in that direction. Japanese developers aren't as obsessed on the ceaseless march forward of graphics technology.
I doubt Nintendo is ignorant of where top of the line gaming specs are going to be in 2013 or 2014, they just chose not to invest in that direction. It's not even like they packed the Wii U with 2005 hardware -- at the very least its graphics processing is quite recent, Nintendo just made a different decision compared to everybody else as to where they wanted to put their money.
I think Gunpei Yokoi pretty much perfectly laid out Nintendo's whole philosophy -- taking mature technology and applying it in new ways. More specifically, Nintendo is a company that likes to make fun physical interfaces. The device that got Yokoi into major development at Nintendo was the Ultra Hand. That's the kind of development they think makes games more fun -- to them, prettier graphics only come into play when absolutely necessary.
With core gamers I never thought the Wii U was going to be a massive hit. Something as new as the GamePad doesn't show its appeal to core gamers immediately. The DS didn't until its second year when excellent games actually started coming out using the touch screen. That alone was never going to have the immediate appeal of shiny new graphics. I was hoping that maybe the 3rd party games on Wii U would look slightly better (like what console ports look like on PC), but even then Nintendo probably wouldn't have one of their core franchise games out to pull in the core gamer. They're probably still working on ways for that to happen.
On the whole insular development thing, I definitely also believe that there exists some kind of philosophical divide between Nintendo and western game developers. For starters it seems like no Japanese publisher or developer at all really understands western game development, possibly because they don't understand where it came from -- PC development. Even if they did or do understand though (the publishers making engines like Capcom, Square Enix, and Konami might), I still think it's also a matter of a deliberate choice not to always make games in that direction. Japanese developers aren't as obsessed on the ceaseless march forward of graphics technology.
I doubt Nintendo is ignorant of where top of the line gaming specs are going to be in 2013 or 2014, they just chose not to invest in that direction. It's not even like they packed the Wii U with 2005 hardware -- at the very least its graphics processing is quite recent, Nintendo just made a different decision compared to everybody else as to where they wanted to put their money.
I think Gunpei Yokoi pretty much perfectly laid out Nintendo's whole philosophy -- taking mature technology and applying it in new ways. More specifically, Nintendo is a company that likes to make fun physical interfaces. The device that got Yokoi into major development at Nintendo was the Ultra Hand. That's the kind of development they think makes games more fun -- to them, prettier graphics only come into play when absolutely necessary.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Like the Vita, they need to act like they care about the system and show me a better PR and Marketing effort. I don't know if I've seen a WiiU commercial on any channel I watch or in any major sporting events yet.
Another thought I should have made more explicit- I'm particularly pessimistic right now because of the 2013 release schedule. I would feel better about the launch numbers if Nintendo had a compelling slate of titles lined up.
We are not beholden to the Nintendo marketing definition of "launch period" that was designed to cover up the severe lack of titles slated to be released for the system.
Can the wiiU and partner up with Microsoft for a dual company console. They can sell the wiiu tablet thing as a peripheral since some people see it like that already. This would benefit both companies for various reasons. Plus as a team they can get to work on a Nintendo smartphone.
dragonflys545
Member
It's not helping NA either. There's literally zero games until late FEB! I hope MS and Sony take notes on how not to launch a system.
pieatorium
Member
Lambda Pie
Banned
they have one year (less?) to gain some traction.
it will be close to impossible to wow people once the 720 and PS4 are out.
it will be close to impossible to wow people once the 720 and PS4 are out.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Im conflicted, having bought the system I want it to do well. The other side of me want's to do badly so maybe Nintendo changes is strategy a bit. They are too comfortable these days, the past 4 hardware launches have been horrible.
Wow that Japanese schedule is brutal. Remember when we thought we were getting Wonderful 101, and Pikmin 3 around launch :/
Wow that Japanese schedule is brutal. Remember when we thought we were getting Wonderful 101, and Pikmin 3 around launch :/
Marketing has helped sell plenty of bad or problematic products though.
When we talk about large sales numbers it is about reaching a mass audience. The WiiU functions well enough to fulfill the needs of this group. I think its a fun console. But it was probably priced out of their budgets.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
This is a key point, I think. A middling launch can be corrected by an effective software strategy, especially with a year headstart. But there needs to BE a software strategy.
I'm not convinced the price is an issue. In the short term it might be, you could pick up a PS3, a 360 or a Wii for much cheaper if you were Xmas shopping, but in the long run considering that they don't like lowering prices (rightly so) I think it's a pretty good price.
The basic version costs $50 more than the Wii did, even the premium version isn't that expensive, it's in the ballpark of what 360 cost at launch (don't remember the price in US, I think it was cheaper than in EU) with a more complete package and much cheaper than PS3.
When the new consoles roll out, it will the be the cheapest of them all and Nintendo will probably be making money by then.
If they wanted to get bigger numbers right now, yeah a lower price tag would help, but considering that they're already losing money, I think this was a good choice in the long run.
The basic version costs $50 more than the Wii did, even the premium version isn't that expensive, it's in the ballpark of what 360 cost at launch (don't remember the price in US, I think it was cheaper than in EU) with a more complete package and much cheaper than PS3.
When the new consoles roll out, it will the be the cheapest of them all and Nintendo will probably be making money by then.
If they wanted to get bigger numbers right now, yeah a lower price tag would help, but considering that they're already losing money, I think this was a good choice in the long run.
What reasons are these?