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Wii U - No optical audio connector? Nintendo. Fix this!!
- Thread starter Fredrik
- Start date
This isn't even like a Wii "we don't need to do HD graphics yet" type thing. These audio codecs have been the standard for at least 10 years now. SMFH, Nintendo. This audio stuff is confirmed? Also, I don't suppose that they can update the audio codecs by a software update or something, can they? ffffffffffffFFFFFF
Yeah. That's the problem that we've been discussing in this thread. The problem is the thread title is kind of misleading.
I don't think so. There was some talk earlier in the thread about the DSP possibly not being designed around DD/DTS encoding and not being able to accommodate the load. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a while.
Saint Gregory
Member
I've asked this every time the thread get bumped and I've never gotten an answer.
Has it been official confirmed that the only surround sound option for the Wii U is going to be uncompressed PCM?
Has it been official confirmed that the only surround sound option for the Wii U is going to be uncompressed PCM?
Sorry for the ignorance, but what's the big advantage to optical. I use it for PS3, but only because I was told it was better.
Does optical support 7.1?
I read that the new HDMI standard is better than optical. True?
I'm interesting in getting a new sound system and using it as an HDMI switch. Is that a good/bad idea and why?
Sorry for all the questions, but Google was not my friend. I got several contradictory answers and didn't see a clear explanation in my scan of this thread.
Does optical support 7.1?
I read that the new HDMI standard is better than optical. True?
I'm interesting in getting a new sound system and using it as an HDMI switch. Is that a good/bad idea and why?
Sorry for all the questions, but Google was not my friend. I got several contradictory answers and didn't see a clear explanation in my scan of this thread.
If you are buying a new AV receiver, you don't need to worry about optical inputs (although almost all modern receiver will have at least one TOSLINK port). Sound via HDMI is perfect.
Uncompressed 6-Channel PCM is the optimum for quality, but many AV receivers that are a bit older don't support the standard (don't forget, receivers are expensive equipment built to last), as well as current headphone systems that are all optical or analog only.
Uncompressed 6-Channel PCM is the optimum for quality, but many AV receivers that are a bit older don't support the standard (don't forget, receivers are expensive equipment built to last), as well as current headphone systems that are all optical or analog only.
Marty Chinn
Member
Optical supports 7.1 for Dolby Digital or DTS. HDMI has higher bandwidth so it can allow for uncompressed audio codecs like Dolby True HD, DTS-MA, and PCM.
Do you mean your sound system is a receiver that has multiple HDMI inputs or are you talking about getting an HDMI switch?
You mean optical supports compressed 5.1 via Dolby Digital and DTS. Only the HDMI specific sound formats do 7.1.
Bingo.
Saint Gregory
Member
I've seen that but I haven't seen any clarification that DD 5.1 and DTS won't be supported at all.
My receiver will support PCM over HDMI but I still think it's shitty for everyone else if Nintendo really dropped dolby support to save a few cents per console.
This shit is also just legacy tech these days, lossy, proprietary, and wastes a lot of processing power.
It's more than just a few cents. The patent license is $2.50 per device if I remember correctly. Add to that the actual connector and more complex PCB, and it's probably something like $4 per device. On top of that, Nintendo would either need a more powerful (and therefore more expensive) DSP, or they'd waste a few percent of the CPU on something only a few consumers actually use. And the middleware game developers need isn't exactly free, either.
If you care about surround, chances are you're going to get a PCM capable receiver sooner or later. DD and DTS will go away. It sucks for a few people early on, but supporting legacy technology would suck for the majority of consumers who are not using it. Because they have to pay for something they're never going to use.
Marty Chinn
Member
I thought optical could support Dolby Digital EX which is a 7.1 format.
This doesn't affect me since I have a nice high end receiver, but this is still a shitty move because those that can handle uncompressed PCM audio are in the minority when it comes to the number of people who have a surround sound setup.
Dolby Digital EX uses matrix encoding - it's the same thing as ProLogic. So yes, it supports 7.1 over optical, but there are no eight discrete channels.
That's wrong. If you can use HDMI for audio, you should.
brochiller
Member
So can somebody put this plainly for me. If I want true surround sound for my Wii U and don't already have an AV receiver capable of doing so, what is my cheapest option?
Marty Chinn
Member
You can spend about $200 to get a low end receiver that supports it and replace your existing one. That's the cheapest option.
Arc07
Member
Any recommendations? My receiver is still amazing for being 7 years old so I never bothered to look at the current tech in the new receivers.
Saint Gregory
Member
Meh, as I said a little earlier in the thread it's pretty ironic that Nintendo was the champion of those with legacy SDTVs this gen but are now all about the future going into next.
It doesn't change things for me since I have the equipment to support it but I can understand this being hype deflating for those who can't afford a Wii U and a new reciever.
There's a HDMI repeater with built-in LPCM decoder/converter. It's sold as AU-HDMICP and ASK-CLUX11SA, but at close to $150, this thing is almost as expensive as a cheap HDMI capable receiver.
I'm talking about a receiver with HDMI inputs and a single output. Either that or a new TV that has multiple HDMI inputs and a single audio output. I need to keep it simple for my wife and my daughter. If at all possible they need a one remote option. Will the Wii U TV feature be able to control receivers?
(Above quote in reference to my use of optical for my PS3.) I should have said that my current early adopted HD ready TV does not support HDMI, but my old receiver has optical.
If you get a new AV receiver, you will connect all your hardware (consoles, disk players, stereos) to the receiver. From there, a single HDMI cable will feed the TV. If you have external speakers or wish to connect headphones you will do so at the receiver.
I don't think we know how flexible the Wii U's IR transceiver is. While I don't think an AV receiver should pose much of an obstacle to usability, if you are interested in a clean "one remote"-setup and the Nintendo TVii proves to be too inflexible for such a purpose, you might want check out the Logitech Harmony remotes.
That's not really the issue. You can convert the HDMI to optical with a cheap switchbox, but it's only going to output 2.0 PCM. I'm assuming these headphones are 5.1 headphones (even though I'd take a quality 2.0 over "surround" headphones), so you won't be getting 5.1 out of them at all, no matter what.
Teletraan1
Banned
I love these responses. We will see that the amount of people who can currently get multichannel sound out of this box will be less than the people who cant on a global scale. Having choices never sucks for anyone. Every other device on the planet gives you an option. Walmart bluray players made by companies that didn't just come off a successful console generation with a 30 billion dollar war chest can give their customers the sound options that Nintendo didn't. All that "complex" PCB for legacy technology is not putting these companies in financial peril. It is almost standard and you have to go out of your way to not support it. The cost difference between a DSP that could process this for free vs one that cant is $.25 per lots of 10k. I am sure Nintendo could get a better deal than that. Perhaps you can broker a deal for them next time since you are so concerned with their financial well being.
Headphone platforms like the Astro Mixamp create a virtual surround soundstage using the Dolby Headphone algorithm which is very convincing and great for gaming (especially shooters online). I use my mixamp in conjunction with a Fiio E09K headphone amp and a Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pro (250 Ohm) - I dare you to tell me these aren't fantastic headphones
Unfortunately, the Mixamp only accepts TOSLINK and Coaxial inputs for surround sound - which poses a problem in conjunction with the Wii U, as HDMI switches with TOSLINK output typically can't encode formats that aren't transmitted via HDMI.
I'm still excited for the Wii U, even only being able to play in stereo, but I can see what the agitation is about and I would prefer the console to provide at least Dolby Surround 5.1 support - ideally an optical audio out as well.
A "surprise" would not be something that is standard on pretty much every console, dvd/bd player, satellite/cable box.
None of my DVD players have optical out, but I see your point.
I disagree. Choices I have to pay for that I'll never, ever need do suck.
Let's be real for a moment: Nintendo is a publicly traded company. They won't tap into their warchest to give ~10% of their customers an option. An option even most of those ~10% won't need anymore a few years down the line. It simply doesn't make sense. It makes even less sense going forward, because if they're getting in bed with Dolby now, they'll have to carry that load around for more than ten years and at least two hardware generations.
The cheap Blu-ray players don't matter at all. They have to support Dolby. It's part of the spec. They probably don't want to, and the players would probably be $5 cheaper if they didn't have to.
And you're right, I'm actually concerned - because I am a shareholder. And I don't want to pay for that option.
brochiller
Member
Yeah at this point I think I should probably just get a new receiver.
But they certainly support Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS output - the lack of TOSLINK out on the console as well as an inability to encode both standards is what creates this situation. If the Wii U would output DD 5.1 we could all just buy cheap boxes that separate audio from HDMI and output it via optical.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Once again.......
This does not only affect people with decade old sound systems. This affects people who dropped serious money on headphones and Home Theater in the Box systems purchased this year and will continue to be purchased well into the Wii U life cycle.
There are people that have literally just paid $300-$500 on a sound system TODAY that will not get surround sound from the Wii U. This is not something that deserves to be defended. Simply paying the Dolby Digital licensing fees would solve the problem.
This does not only affect people with decade old sound systems. This affects people who dropped serious money on headphones and Home Theater in the Box systems purchased this year and will continue to be purchased well into the Wii U life cycle.
There are people that have literally just paid $300-$500 on a sound system TODAY that will not get surround sound from the Wii U. This is not something that deserves to be defended. Simply paying the Dolby Digital licensing fees would solve the problem.
Optical is legacy and outdated. HDMI is the current standard and required if you want compressed audio or 7.1 surround
As for using an AV Receivers as an HDMI switch - it's a great idea. All your devices - modern HDMI ones, and legacy analogue ones - connect into the back of your AV Receiver. You then have a single HDMI connection going into the back of your TV.
Even level entry AV Receivers from the likes of Yamaha and Pioneer have at least 4 HDMI inputs, and maybe the same number again of component.
With HDMI-CEC, as long as your TV and AV Receiver support it (which they should), you also get the benefit of being able to use a single remote to control everything. Won't be of any benefit for the Wii U, but I use my TV remote to control my PS3 and AV Receiver when watching movies.
Really. Pray tell how my DVD player that only has red and white RCA audio cables support 5.1?
I see the argument and realize my anecdotal evidence is lacking.
Unless people have been buying bargain basement Chinese knock-offs, I don't know how this is possible. For reference, can you link to a current model of $300+ AV Receiver that doesn't support HDMI input?
HDMI if you aren't talking about devices that only output analog non-progressive video.
If you paid $500 on a sound system today and that system doesn't support HDMI, you obviously like wasting money. So waste some more and buy an external LPCM decoder. I've also got nice bridge to sell you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#CEC
HDMI-CEC (aslo called HDMI Control, Bravia Lina, VIERA Link etc) is the protocol used to control one HDMI attched device through another one.
Lets say you have a PS3 connected to an AV Receiver, which in turn is connected to a TV.
HDMI-CEC means that you can use the TV remote (standard IR TV remote). The TV passes the instructions onto the AV Receiver, which passes it onto the PS3. It means that you can just one one remote to control all HDMI connected devices.
It's great, and a really overlooked feature.
Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI_CEC#CEC - different manufacturers call the feature by different names, but (at least in theory) they are interoperable.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Very true: http://www.amazon.com/Onkyo-TX-SR313-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0077V8930/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349053259&sr=8-1&keywords=hdmi+receiver+5.1
HDMI ports are pretty much standard on any receiver in the last few years.
Everyone is using HDMI anyways right? Except for me
I have an older 5.1 that only rolls up its sleeves for optical so this sucks for me. I could go out from the TV to in on the receiver tho. Not going to upgrade my receiver unless I have to since it still works amazingly after all these years.
I have an older 5.1 that only rolls up its sleeves for optical so this sucks for me. I could go out from the TV to in on the receiver tho. Not going to upgrade my receiver unless I have to since it still works amazingly after all these years.
Mithos
Member
Everyone is using HDMI anyways right? Except for me
No HDMI on my receiver, and it ain't broken (so no buying a new one anytime soon) so no GOOD surround sound for me on Wii U games except Dolby Pro Logic II.
Man-is-Obsolete
Member
Sure, a few examples of systems on sale today and will be throughout the rest of the year into next year. People buy a lot more of these than traditional A/V Receiver, and is typically the sound system a first time audio buyer buys. For instance think of the stereotypical first car versus a car someone may own later in life.
http://www.lg.com/us/home-theater-s...e&utm_source=AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default
http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/SC-BTT195?t=specs
http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...c0-e6c7-f728-9b66-0000254704f2#specifications
I own a $3,000 system, excuse me for thinking from the perspective of Joe Six Pack that just bought a HTIB and doesn't even know what a LPCM Decoder is or if it even exists. lol.
You are assuming someone owns speakers already. A first time audio buyer would have to add 5 speakers and a sub to that making the cost now substantially more than $200. Where they could instead get tidy HTiB system for only a $100 more and get everything and a blu ray player (Value added). For the record I hate these HTiB's but can't ignore that a lot of people that will buy a Wii U will be trying to get surround sound to work on these and won't.
Well, there you go. These aren't AV Receivers or audio systems. They are HTiB - BD players with speakers. They are designed explicitly to output surround from the BD player that is part of it. They are not receivers, and not designed to be used as one for other devices.
I used to have one. It had a single optical input in the back, so I was able to use an optical splitter and hook up my PC, PS3 and 360 into it. But it was less than ideal, as I had no control over audio lag as the HTiB only processed the audio and knew nothing about the image. Once I decided that decent audio was a missing part of my AV set-up, I bought a level entry Pioneer amp and never looked back.
QueenOfThorns
Member
Aw. Now I regret buying my receiver when I did. It's 3 years old, and has HDMI ports, but they're picture passthrough only.
If Joe doesn't know, he probably doesn't care.
Personally, I'm not affected either way. I think I have a pretty unique setup, consisting of two independent 2.1 systems in an either/ or configuration. The regular system is a Syrincs M3-220, and if I want to play it really loud, I'll switch to my Ecler/ Martin Mach Audio setup. Both are very powerful, very clear professional grade stereo setups (the former is a studio monitor system, the latter is a small PA setup intended for clubs). Surround sound irritates me. And I'd argue both systems give you an acoustic experience far beyond consumer grade surround setups.
Ryoma-Echizen
Member
I would get the 7770, worth the price difference.