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[Man-is-Obsolete]

Well, there you go. These aren't AV Receivers or audio systems. They are HTiB - BD players with speakers. They are designed explicitly to output surround from the BD player that is part of it. They are not receivers, and not designed to be used as one for other devices.

I used to have one. It had a single optical input in the back, so I was able to use an optical splitter and hook up my PC, PS3 and 360 into it. But it was less than ideal, as I had no control over audio lag as the HTiB only processed the audio and knew nothing about the image. Once I decided that decent audio was a missing part of my AV set-up, I bought a level entry Pioneer amp and never looked back.

Well, there you go. You contradicted yourself with your own real life example of using a HTiB as a receiver. And you drove home my point that many people buy those systems as there first audio system, before SOMETIMES realizing better options are out there.

If Joe doesn't know, he probably doesn't care.

Except he cares to get surround sound and then has to march his way back in to the place he bought the Wii U and ask why won't the surround sound work, to which a part time worker won't know most likely lol.

 

[CLEEK]

Well, there you go. You contradicted yourself with your own real life example of using a HTiB as a receiver.

What? I didn't contradict myself at all. I said how I shoehorned some devices into using my old HTiB and the results weren't great, as the HTiB wasn't designed to be an AV Receiver.

HTiB are designed for movie fans, not gamers.

Except he cares to get surround sound and then has to march his way back in to the place he bought the Wii U and ask why won't the surround sound work, to which a part time worker won't know most likely lol.

Nope. The whole selling point of HTiB is you don't need to know (or care) about different sound formats, connectors or any of that business. Everything you need for surround is in the same package. You watch a BD and 5.1 comes out of the speakers.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What? I didn't contradict myself at all. I said how I shoehorned some devices into using my old HTiB and the results weren't great, as the HTiB wasn't designed to be an AV Receiver.

HTiB are designed for movie fans, not gamers.

You're not seeing that other people also do this since you did this as well?

 

[CLEEK]

You're not seeing that other people also do this since you did this as well?

If I was still rocking my old HTiB, I wouldn't be bellyaching over the Wii U audio, as I knew for a long time that I needed an AV Receiver.

 

[alr1ght]

HTIB systems are designed for movie fans, but not gamers. LOL

Up until Nintendo decided to cheap out, they were for both.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Its going to be pretty hilarious when the systems coming out a year from now will have this "obsolete" tech

 

[Trogdor1123]

Is there no ethernet on teh wiiU? Seriosly?

 

[alr1ght]

Its going to be pretty hilarious when the systems coming out a year from now will have this "obsolete" tech

But the older tech system does not.

 

[netBuff]

Is there no ethernet on teh wiiU? Seriosly?

You'll be able to buy an Ethernet adapter - that's a non-issue.

 

[Trogdor1123]

You'll be able to buy an Ethernet adapter - that's a non-issue.

SOmething as basic as ethernet should be included for a system thats supposed to be for online gaming. Terrible decision.

 

[b3b0p]

SOmething as basic as ethernet should be included for a system thats supposed to be for online gaming. Terrible decision.

FYI, it's not on any of Apple's Macbook products either as far as I remember. You need an adapter.

 

[kennah]

It's lame that there's no optical out, but you can always get this:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/1080p-4-port-hdmi-input-to-hdmi-optical-coaxial-audio-output-converter-100-240v-ac-16553

Heh. A theatre I used to work at has one of these for managing their projector/sending video sound to their sound board.

 

[AzaK]

People can try and say "You should have HDMI" but the fact of the matter is that a lot of us don't, and it's going to fucking suck having to either upgrade our gear, get some sort of frankenstein adapter setup, or as I will probably have to do, just use an AV cable and I assume stereo (Or Dolby Pro Logic II at best)

 

[jet1911]

I don't have room for a 5.1 setup in my living room so I bought a sound bar. Only have 2 optical input. Too bad for me I guess... This is a pretty stupid decision by Nintendo.

 

[CLEEK]

SOmething as basic as ethernet should be included for a system thats supposed to be for online gaming. Terrible decision.

The negative effect of WiFi for gaming is always massively overestimated.

From your PC, try pinging your home router with a wired and wireless connection. Chances are, you'll get the same response of 1ms.

Latency with 802.11 g/n comes from bad connections, due to range, environmental factors or interference. If you have a good, stable WiFi signal, it's absolutely fine for gaming. If you have a less than great signal, then you will get latency and Ethernet should be used.

 

[MCD]

People can try and say "You should have HDMI" but the fact of the matter is that a lot of us don't, and it's going to fucking suck having to either upgrade our gear, get some sort of frankenstein adapter setup, or as I will probably have to do, just use an AV cable and I assume stereo (Or Dolby Pro Logic II at best)

I have HDMI Pioneer receiver but I use optical because it's more convenient to me for a couple of reasons:

- I have the Astro A40 and Astro headset so in order to use it along with my 5.1 speakers I need to plug to the TV plus my Pioneer receiver all through optical.

- One sound channel for all my devices means the receiver is set to AUX and I never have to mess with it to power any of my consoles.

I am not going back to HDMI for audio so I will live with my Wii U only outputting stereo shit.

 

[Marty Chinn]

The negative effect of WiFi for gaming is always massively overestimated.

From your PC, try pinging your home router with a wired and wireless connection. Chances are, you'll get the same response of 1ms.

Latency with 802.11 g/n comes from bad connections, due to range, environmental factors or interference. If you have a good, stable WiFi signal, it's absolutely fine for gaming. If you have a less than great signal, then you will get latency and Ethernet should be used.

Out of curiosity, I just tried it and they were not 1ms return times. They were 6ms, 3ms, 3ms, 6ms, and this is pretty close to the router and a pretty good router. In fact I just tried it again 6 inches from the router and got 4ms, 8ms, 3ms, and 3ms. Let's not try to play down the deficiencies of WiFi. On top of the latency, there is speed, and drop out from interference. I'll take a wired connection any day over WiFi.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I have HDMI Pioneer receiver but I use optical because it's more convenient to me for a couple of reasons:

- I have the Astro A40 and Astro headset so in order to use it along with my 5.1 speakers I need to plug to the TV plus my Pioneer receiver all through optical.

- One sound channel for all my devices means the receiver is set to AUX and I never have to mess with it to power any of my consoles.

I am not going back to HDMI for audio so I will live with my Wii U only outputting stereo shit.

This seems like a silly reason to degrade your audio on a receiver that you bought for audio. There are ways around that aspect too.

 

[CLEEK]

Out of curiosity, I just tried it and they were not 1ms return times. They were 6ms, 3ms, 3ms, 6ms, and this is pretty close to the router and a pretty good router. In fact I just tried it again 6 inches from the router and got 4ms, 8ms, 3ms, and 3ms. Let's not try to play down the deficiencies of WiFi. On top of the latency, there is speed, and drop out from interference. I'll take a wired connection any day over WiFi.

Well, yeah. I didn't say WiFi was for everyone. The annoying thing about WiFi latency is that it can be random - it's not like it just add a 10ms overhead or anything - you can get big spikes here and there due to interference etc.

But WiFi is not automatically an enemy of gaming that many folks make out. If your connection is good, so is WiFi.

 

[MCD]

>Implying a casual scum like me cares about lossless audio.

I mainly bought it for 5.1. It's an old ass entry level Pioneer but goddamn if it isn't good.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Well, yeah. I didn't say WiFi was for everyone. The annoying thing about WiFi latency is that it can be random - it's not like it just add a 10ms overhead or anything - you can get big spikes here and there due to interference etc.

But WiFi is not automatically an enemy of gaming that many folks make out. If your connection is good, so is WiFi.

But you said chances are you'll get 1ms ping time but that's just not true at all.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

But you said chances are you'll get 1ms ping time but that's just not true at all.

I believe they call this moving the goal posts.

 

[Brad Grenz]

FYI, it's not on any of Apple's Macbook products either as far as I remember. You need an adapter.

On their ultra portable laptops? Sure, but they still have ethernet on iMacs, Workstations and even the Apple TV because omitting it on a stationary, internet connected device is assanine.

 

[CLEEK]

But you said chances are you'll get 1ms ping time but that's just not true at all.

You do know what 'chances are' means, yeah? It doesn't mean THIS IS A FACT FOR EVERYONE. You're looking for an argument where there is none. Go back an re-read my posts. Nothing I have said is inaccurate.

FWIW, I get 1ms on my home 802.11n connection and on my work 802.11g connection.

 

[netBuff]

Well, yeah. I didn't say WiFi was for everyone. The annoying thing about WiFi latency is that it can be random - it's not like it just add a 10ms overhead or anything - you can get big spikes here and there due to interference etc.

That's called Jitter, which is very bad for online play that is dependent on a consistent stream of data packets. And while WiFi is okay for gaming, wired Ethernet is undoubtedly better - it affords consistent latency that is free of any random outside interference. As uncontrollable the internet environment beyond my house is, I prefer to at least provide the basis for a great experience by having all my devices at a fixed position wired with Cat 5e for gigabit Ethernet.

In addition, even with my Asus RT-N66U I am unable to saturate my 100Mbit/10Mbit internet connection using WiFi (no problem on wired) - and performance degrades very noticeably the more devices are active on the wireless network.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Once again.......

This does not only affect people with decade old sound systems. This affects people who dropped serious money on headphones and Home Theater in the Box systems purchased this year and will continue to be purchased well into the Wii U life cycle.

There are people that have literally just paid $300-$500 on a sound system TODAY that will not get surround sound from the Wii U. This is not something that deserves to be defended. Simply paying the Dolby Digital licensing fees would solve the problem.

If you paid 300 - 500 bucks for a sound system today and it doesn't have HDMI inputs, either A you failed at doing research or B you got ripped the fuck off.

So no this doesn't effect everyone buying a sound system today.

*edit*

I see this was already addressed, that's what I get for typing out a post getting a phone call and then hitting reply.

 

[CLEEK]

So no this doesn't effect everyone buying a sound system today.

He was moving the goal posts, after being challenged on his claim that people buying $500 amps today wouldn't get surround from the Wii U.

 

[dubq]

Why is this even an issue? Don't most good LCD/LED/Plasma TVs have opticals of their own? I just hook my sound system directly to my Bravia via optical and everything benefits from it. Not sure why you'd only want one piece of hardware to utilize it.

 

[Marty Chinn]

If you paid 300 - 500 bucks for a sound system today and it doesn't have HDMI inputs, either A you failed at doing research or B you got ripped the fuck off.

So no this doesn't effect everyone buying a sound system today.

Because people who buy those setups are the ones who do research right? Also who said everyone?

Why is this even an issue? Don't most good LCD/LED/Plasma TVs have opticals of their own? I just hook my sound system directly to my Bravia via optical and everything benefits from it. Not sure why you'd only want one piece of hardware to utilize it.

What? I don't think you understand how the wiring works. You can't go HDMI from the the Wii U to the TV, and then optical from the TV to your receiver and get 5.1 audio.

 

[alr1ght]

Why is this even an issue? Don't most good LCD/LED/Plasma TVs have opticals of their own? I just hook my sound system directly to my Bravia via optical and everything benefits from it. Not sure why you'd only want one piece of hardware to utilize it.

Because....you should read the thread.

 

[Fourth Stooge]

I was pissed off about this until I looked at my Gamecube and Wii games. The only Nintendo-exclusive game that would really benefit from Dolby Digital or DTS would be Metroid. Maybe Mario Kart and one or two others to some extent, but no big deal.

I remember going through the same though process when I first got my Gamecube and Wii. It turned out I didn't really care about the systems' sound setup because Nintendo didn't care either. The audio options seemed to be an afterthought in the design of the systems and the games. I will likely buy every multiplatform game on the next 360 or Playstation so I won't be missing anything. It does suck for people who plan to only have the WiiU though.

The second thing I realized when I looked at the old Gamecube and Wii games was that I haven't turned on my Wii in 3 years (or more). There's probably a lesson to be learned there...

 

[alr1ght]

The only Nintendo-exclusive game that would really benefit from Dolby Digital or DTS would be Metroid. Maybe Mario Kart and one or two others to some extent, but no big deal.

wut.

That's like saying game X doesn't look better in HD.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Listen I agree it should have an optical out, my biggest complaint about the GC and Wii was lack of optical out. I just think trying to pass off bluray systems, that have 1 optical and 1 RCA audio input as a Home theater system is stupid. Those systems are meant for people who just want a movie experience and to hook up their cable box to it. It's not an A/V receiver.

In response to saying the people who buy those types of set ups are the ones who do research? Well maybe they fucking should. I'm sorry but ignorance is no excuse. Everyone is responsible for themselves, if you can't be arsed to check out specs on something, well sucks for you. Its not like information on home theater systems, and proper audio set ups are really all that hard to find. The information is out there and easily accessible.

So yeah they should include optical out, but considering the GC and Wii didn't I'm not surprised by the Wii-U's lack of one. Second, if you spend 500 bucks on a bluray player that has speakers connected to it to use as an A/V receiver, consider it a life lesson. Next time do some research.

 

[alphaNoid]

This is unacceptable to be using a receiver in 2012 without hdmi inputs

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Listen I agree it should have an optical out, my biggest complaint about the GC and Wii was lack of optical out. I just think trying to pass off bluray systems, that have 1 optical and 1 RCA audio input as a Home theater system is stupid. Those systems are meant for people who just want a movie experience and to hook up their cable box to it. It's not an A/V receiver.

In response to saying the people who buy those types of set ups are the ones who do research? Well maybe they fucking should. I'm sorry but ignorance is no excuse. Everyone is responsible for themselves, if you can't be arsed to check out specs on something, well sucks for you. Its not like information on home theater systems, and proper audio set ups are really all that hard to find. The information is out there and easily accessible.

So yeah they should include optical out, but considering the GC and Wii didn't I'm not surprised by the Wii-U's lack of one. Second, if you spend 500 bucks on a bluray player that has speakers connected to it to use as an A/V receiver, consider it a life lesson. Next time do some research.

Can't believe the number of people telling other people to throw out their current audio setup to defend Nintendo not including optical out which is still a current and widely use connection. Heck, I have a fairly high end setup, and I still use optical for some things, especially since I'm out of HDMI ports.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Listen I agree it should have an optical out, my biggest complaint about the GC and Wii was lack of optical out. I just think trying to pass off bluray systems, that have 1 optical and 1 RCA audio input as a Home theater system is stupid. Those systems are meant for people who just want a movie experience and to hook up their cable box to it. It's not an A/V receiver.

In response to saying the people who buy those types of set ups are the ones who do research? Well maybe they fucking should. I'm sorry but ignorance is no excuse. Everyone is responsible for themselves, if you can't be arsed to check out specs on something, well sucks for you. Its not like information on home theater systems, and proper audio set ups are really all that hard to find. The information is out there and easily accessible.

So yeah they should include optical out, but considering the GC and Wii didn't I'm not surprised by the Wii-U's lack of one. Second, if you spend 500 bucks on a bluray player that has speakers connected to it to use as an A/V receiver, consider it a life lesson. Next time do some research.

Except those systems are sold as HOME THEATER SYSTEMS. They are called Home Theater Systems. If you go to bestbuy.com or amazon.com they are all listed under Home Theater Systems. Whether they are worth much or not is beside the point. I know some very intelligent people that have bought such systems and use them with gaming consoles. It has nothing to do with stupidity or lack of research or even money it has to do with for surround sound this will be more than enough for that person and hey look I got a blu ray player as well, something my 360/Wii doesn't have.

So let's not insult the intelligence of millions of people, because Nintendo was stingy and didn't support Dolby Digital at the very least. People in this thread are greatly underestimating the number of gaming systems that are connected to such HTiB systems and those people are in for a rude awakening. That's all I am saying.

 

[CLEEK]

Except those systems are sold as HOME THEATER SYSTEMS. They are called Home Theater Systems.

Home theatre, as in, you know, for movies.

If you buy a HTiB and think it will work perfectly with consoles, streaming, music etc, you're in for a surprise. You can appropriate the limited connections on the back to shoehorn in a couple of devices, but that's not what they're for. If you cared about audio, you'd know this. For example, I've never seen a HTiB that doesn't have audio sync / delay issues with external sources.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Home theatre, as in, you know, for movies.

If you buy a HTiB and think it will work perfectly with consoles, streaming, music etc, you're in for a surprise. You can appropriate the limited connections on the back to shoehorn in a couple of devices, but that's not what they're for. If you cared about audio, you'd know this. For example, I've never seen a HTiB that doesn't have audio sync / delay issues with external sources.

You're being way elitist and smug about this. Your average person does not know about this. You're giving people way too much credit for having that much knowledge. These things wouldn't sell if everyone was so knowledgeable about the topic but yet they sell.

 

[CLEEK]

Your average person does not know about this.

That's my point. If you don't know anything about this, you probably won't care.

The number of folks who do know and care about audio, yet have an old receiver or a crappy HTiB, are in the teeny, tiny minority. It's a bummer, but hey, the march of technology is relentless, and optical is a legacy system. I'd be surprised if the PS4 and Xbox3 natively support it.

 

[Brad Grenz]

If we know anything about Nintendo, it's that they only care about the elitist techie market.

 

[madmackem]

I dont get it if people care so much about optical only 5.1 and having to get an ethernet adaptor then dont buy wii u, its there either accept the systems short comings or vote with your wallet.

 

[Marty Chinn]

That's my point. If you don't know anything about this, you probably won't care.

The number of folks who do know and care about audio, yet have an old receiver or a crappy HTiB, are in the teeny, tiny minority. It's a bummer, but hey, the march of technology is relentless, and optical is a legacy system. I'd be surprised if the PS4 and Xbox3 natively support it.

See this is where your wrong because people do hook them up to a HTiB. The fact that they do it shows they care enough to want to do it but don't care enough to know the technical details. I think you grossly underestimate the number of people who get their 5.1 through optical.

 

[Mysterious Stranger]

Nintendo WiiU still without Dolby Digital 5.1/DTS support.


LCPM only.

 

[bakedpony]

I wonder if a lot of people will buy Wii U's without knowing their surround sound setup wouldn't work. Probably their fault for not doing research but it's not their fault for assuming Nintendo would be including the support for this since it has been around for more than a decade.

 

[Mysterious Stranger]

WiiU Pro Logic 2 only just like Gamecube!

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Home theatre, as in, you know, for movies.

Just nitpicking, but "Home Theater" is basically a marketing catchphrase at this point that basically stands-in for "advanced audio equipment" so far as the modern consumer goes. Home Theater at this point is a synonym for "I'm thinking of using something beside the speakers on the TV/a soundbar"

To imply people buy home theater audio hardware solely for movies and not for anything else that might get plugged into it is kinda disingenuous as a) pretty much everyone understands there's a whole BUNCH of holes on the back of most recievers for you to plug in damn near everything b) it's not as if there's a large swath of audio hardware out there that's marketed as "gaming audio" or "Video Game Reciever" or "I just kinda like some TV shows and maybe some youtube video recievers."

I think you grossly underestimate the number of people who get their 5.1 through optical.

I'd imagine most people get discrete multichannel surround through HDMI or Coax. The number of Toslink users is probably much smaller in comparison. I'd also imagine most people using HTIB are unable to discern Dolby Pro Logic II from DD/DTS 5.1

 

[Mysterious Stranger]

Home Theaters are good for HDTV, games, music and movies.


I dunno how people can stand TV sound.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'd imagine most people get discrete multichannel surround through HDMI or Coax. The number of Toslink users is probably much smaller in comparison. I'd also imagine most people using HTIB are unable to discern Dolby Pro Logic II from DD/DTS 5.1

You really think more people use Coax over optical? I find that hard to believe. Coax is so rare in comparison. I might agree that they're unable to discern the difference though.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

You really think more people use Coax over optical? I find that hard to believe. Coax is so rare in comparison. I might agree that they're unable to discern the difference though.

Coax is cheaper cable. Most people already have a spare RCA or two just hanging around, as opposed to a spare toslink. If their blu-ray/dvd/cable box has coax out for digital, they'll just use the RCA as opposed to heading out to the store and dropping 7-10 bucks for a 3-6ft Toslink run.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Coax is cheaper cable. Most people already have a spare RCA or two just hanging around, as opposed to a spare toslink. If their blu-ray/dvd/cable box has coax out for digital, they'll just use the RCA as opposed to heading out to the store and dropping 7-10 bucks for a 3-6ft Toslink run.

I can't honestly think of the last time I used Coax to connect surround sound. Maybe my LD player? More often than not, a device will have optical over Coax for that connection. Optical is way more common in devices and I bet in practice. I'd really be surprised if this is true at all.