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[lednerg]

Hey guys, new here.

So I'm like a game designer and shit. Can't say for which company or anything, real hush-hush. ANYWAY, our team has run all of the tests and have concluded that in terms of technical things like 'power', the Wii U is below that of Xbox's 360. It's closer to 320. Sucks because I really wanted it to be good, but it is not. I'm afraid that's all I can say, don't wanna lose my job, lol.

 

[NeoGohan]

Watch the bird demo, there's hints of it all over the place. For instance when the bird lands on the tree and is just sitting there, you can see the color of the tree bouncing up and effecting the color of the birds bottom by his tail feathers. You also see it as the bird flies over the trees and the lighting under the bird changes as he moves across areas that are closer and further away changing how much bounce light is hitting underneath him. The color of the light hitting the bottom of him changes as he moves from flying over asphalt to flying over the grass to flying over the water.

yep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVKMMYFbVgk

beautiful

 

[BY2K]

yep

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVKMMYFbVgk

beautiful

Oh my.

Never saw the bird demo fully. Didn't realize it was in part interactive (camera movement with the controller, Press "B" to continue.)

And like the Zelda Demo, the lighting is gorgeous.

 

[Mokka]

Watch the bird demo, there's hints of it all over the place. For instance when the bird lands on the tree and is just sitting there, you can see the color of the tree bouncing up and effecting the color of the birds bottom by his tail feathers. You also see it as the bird flies over the trees and the lighting under the bird changes as he moves across areas that are closer and further away changing how much bounce light is hitting underneath him. The color of the light hitting the bottom of him changes as he moves from flying over asphalt to flying over the grass to flying over the water.

Okay just watched it again and you are right. It's really nicely done.

 

[Disorientator]

Is there any solid info as to how the switching of video\audio from TV to Upad works?

I mean the E3 trailer just shows the guy switching channel/input on his TV and the game "magically" gets transferred to the pad's screen.

Is the whole thing triggered when the WiiU detects "signal loss" on one of the video outputs?
(not sure if that's even possible - surely it works the other way around)

Or maybe it's an option an the "Home\pause" screen?

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Yeah. It was released on April 21, 2011 in Japan. The game is developed by Genius Sonority. Kinda dull they are not that prominent in the west anymore. While the Pokémon Colosseum wasn't that well received, they've done a few rather interesting titles with Denpaningen for Nintendo 3DS being the most recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpnXbUhrZUU

I personally enjoyed the hell out of Colosseum and XD.

 

[darthdago]

Yeah. It was released on April 21, 2011 in Japan. The game is developed by Genius Sonority. Kinda dull they are not that prominent in the west anymore. While the Pokémon Colosseum wasn't that well received, they've done a few rather interesting titles with Denpaningen for Nintendo 3DS being the most recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpnXbUhrZUU

At least I really enjoyed to play two of their games:

Pokémon Battle Revolution
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen and the Tower of Mirrors

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

What do you guys think? I'll do SPD and other first/second parties next.

I think that SPD is kind of slipping under the radar because the organization is still something we are learning about. But I thought it was very interesting for Iwata to reassure his investors that there are two main development divisions at Nintendo, EAD and SPD, and both break down into smaller sub divisions and groups of course. It is also interesting that at first SPD was supposed to be the more liberal group working with small teams and doing a lot of co-development, but now Miyamoto has given the green light for his producers and developers to do the same (star fox and ocarina and steel diver).

SPD has created the most new properties in the current generation. Band Brothers, Rhythm Tengoku, Money Market, Kiki Trick, Brain-Age, English Training, etc.

2003 - Present

Brownie Brown
Super Mario 3D Land (Co-Dev)

Gen Kadoi from Brownie Brown was contracted by EAD Tokyo 2 for SM3D Land and I think he did those 2D story portraits you see throughout the game. But i wouldn't say Brownie Brown was a "co-developer" of SM3DLand. It is Nintendo and you will always see random names all over the place. Josh Schwedler from NST has done alot of work with SPD's games for some reason. All types of weird stuff.

 

[BY2K]

Is there any solid info as to how the switching of video\audio from TV to Upad works?

I mean the E3 trailer just shows the guy switching channel/input on his TV and the game "magically" gets transferred to the pad's screen.

Is the whole thing triggered when the WiiU detects "signal loss" on one of the video outputs?
(not sure if that's even possible - surely it works the other way around)

Or maybe it's an option an the "Home\pause" screen?

It's probably going to be an OS option. Click "Home" button on controller, select "Switch Screen" or something.

 

[moggio]

Wii only supports wired usb keyboards. That's a wireless bluetooth keyboard to be paired with a specific DS cartridge

You can use wireless keyboards on the Wii.

 

[xandaca]

The thing I got from that bird video was that the controller looks like it's a really nice, comfortable size. One of my worries was that the tablet would be unwieldy, but it doesn't look much bigger than a paperback novel, which is perfect.

 

[Rösti]

The thing I got from that bird video was that the controller looks like it's a really nice, comfortable size. One of my worries was that the tablet would be unwieldy, but it doesn't look much bigger than a paperback novel, which is perfect.

From Nintendo:

Approximately 5.3 inches high, 0.9 inches deep (not including buttons and other projections) and 9.0 inches long.

Source: http://e3.nintendo.com/hw/#/about

It will probably look a bit different at E3 2012 though (perhaps they will as soon as GDC next month show an eventual redesign).

Regarding E3 by the way, I have a question: I know there are usually threads for the separate media briefings of Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony etc., but is a custom "coalition" thread (detailing the whole event) something that's common?

 

[lednerg]

This video shows off the floor version of the bird demo the best. Starting at around 0:39, you can clearly see the global illumination on the underside of the bird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHUwDShrD4

Whether that's some baked-in animated texture or a real time effect is anybody's guess. All I know is, it looks super-sweet and isn't something I'm used to seeing in current gen games, let alone cut-scenes. Pretty good for something thrown together on gimped prototype hardware.

 

[darthdago]

Ok here is some news (cant remember that I read it here), it's in german so I'll try to explain the (for me) interesting parts.
Sorry if that is not an interesting news for everyone.

http://www.golem.de/news/cpus-will-amd-seine-chips-auch-bei-ibm-herstellen-lassen-1202-89590.html

Will AMD seine Chips auch bei IBM herstellen lassen?

Noch ist Globalfoundries nicht abgeschlagen - aber IBM soll AMD künftig als weiterer Fertigungspartner dienen. So jedenfalls interpretieren manche Berichte Aussagen von AMD-Chef Rory Read.


Ein Zitat von Rory Read macht derzeit durch einen ersten Bericht von Xbitlabs die Runde. Das russische Medium gibt dabei eine Aussage der AMD-Chefs vom Financial Analyst Day des Unternehmens wieder. Dabei spricht Read aber nur von IBM und Globalfoundries als "Partnern" beim Sammeln von Daten durch Testchips.

Das bedeutet jedoch noch nicht zwingend, dass IBM auch in die Serienfertigung der nächsten APU Trinity einsteigt. Vielmehr sind AMD, IBM und auch Globalfoundries schon seit zehn Jahren enge Partner bei der Entwicklung neuer Methoden zur Halbleiterfertigung. IBM hatte zusammen mit AMDs Fertigungssparte - die dann als Globalfoundries ausgegliedert wurde - die ersten Prozesse entwickelt.

Dass AMD aber auf der Suche nach neuen Auftragsherstellern ist, weil man mit der Leistung von Globalfoundries nicht zufrieden ist, stellt längst kein Geheimnis der Chipbranche mehr dar. Einen Teil seiner Bausteine lässt AMD bereits bei TSMC fertigen, und zwar auch die APUs, nicht mehr nur wie bisher die reinen Grafikprozessoren.

The question here is if AMD wants IBM to produce their GPUs, they state that AMD, IBM and Globalfoundries are partners for about 10 years.
But AMD seems not to be very happy with Globalfoundries and thats why they went to TSMC to produce the APUs and GPUs.

Now, if that is true and IBM would produce the entire WII U chipset (GPU/CPU), in which way could Wii U benefit from that?

 

[Vinci]

This video shows off the floor version of the bird demo the best. Starting at around 0:39, you can clearly see the global illumination on the underside of the bird.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OHUwDShrD4

Whether that's some baked-in animated texture or a real time effect is anybody's guess. All I know is, it looks super-sweet and isn't something I'm used to seeing in current gen games, let alone cut-scenes. Pretty good for something thrown together on gimped prototype hardware.

That is so pretty. I'm not a graphics whore by any measurement, but that is just really well done.

 

[Plinko]

Just caught up on the thread and I'm not buying the "devkit not as powerful as 360" stuff for many reasons.

1. Even the first initial rumors from 01.net had the system being more powerful than 360, and that was based on the original devkit.
2. It makes absolutely zero sense for Nintendo to release a system that underpowered right now--wouldn't they actually HAVE to intentionally nerf the system to do it feasibly?
3. The bird demo and the Zelda demo are, to me, clearly more impressive than anything on the 360 right now. I know others may disagree, but nothing on that system even comes close to that lighting.
4. IGN's latest rumor was corroborated by several other sources/websites.
5. Vigil and other developers have already gone on the record with statements that don't lead one to believe the system would be that underpowered.

It just doesn't make any logical sense at all (cue specialguy and his "hurr durr Wii" statement).

 

[bgassassin]

^ Specialguy already beat you.

Hey guys, new here.

So I'm like a game designer and shit. Can't say for which company or anything, real hush-hush. ANYWAY, our team has run all of the tests and have concluded that in terms of technical things like 'power', the Wii U is below that of Xbox's 360. It's closer to 320. Sucks because I really wanted it to be good, but it is not. I'm afraid that's all I can say, don't wanna lose my job, lol.

Haha. I'm not even bothered by it. Fortunately this board doesn't let things like that slide.

There is one glaring hole in the info that would say he is either not being honest or he's behind on updates.

Ok here is some news (cant remember that I read it here), it's in german so I'll try to explain the (for me) interesting parts.
Sorry if that is not an interesting news for everyone.

http://www.golem.de/news/cpus-will-amd-seine-chips-auch-bei-ibm-herstellen-lassen-1202-89590.html

Will AMD seine Chips auch bei IBM herstellen lassen?

Noch ist Globalfoundries nicht abgeschlagen - aber IBM soll AMD künftig als weiterer Fertigungspartner dienen. So jedenfalls interpretieren manche Berichte Aussagen von AMD-Chef Rory Read.


Ein Zitat von Rory Read macht derzeit durch einen ersten Bericht von Xbitlabs die Runde. Das russische Medium gibt dabei eine Aussage der AMD-Chefs vom Financial Analyst Day des Unternehmens wieder. Dabei spricht Read aber nur von IBM und Globalfoundries als "Partnern" beim Sammeln von Daten durch Testchips.

Das bedeutet jedoch noch nicht zwingend, dass IBM auch in die Serienfertigung der nächsten APU Trinity einsteigt. Vielmehr sind AMD, IBM und auch Globalfoundries schon seit zehn Jahren enge Partner bei der Entwicklung neuer Methoden zur Halbleiterfertigung. IBM hatte zusammen mit AMDs Fertigungssparte - die dann als Globalfoundries ausgegliedert wurde - die ersten Prozesse entwickelt.

Dass AMD aber auf der Suche nach neuen Auftragsherstellern ist, weil man mit der Leistung von Globalfoundries nicht zufrieden ist, stellt längst kein Geheimnis der Chipbranche mehr dar. Einen Teil seiner Bausteine lässt AMD bereits bei TSMC fertigen, und zwar auch die APUs, nicht mehr nur wie bisher die reinen Grafikprozessoren.

The question here is if AMD wants IBM to produce their GPUs, they state that AMD, IBM and Globalfoundries are partners for about 10 years.
But AMD seems not to be very happy with Globalfoundries and thats why they went to TSMC to produce the APUs and GPUs.

Now, if that is true and IBM would produce the entire WII U chipset (GPU/CPU), in which way could Wii U benefit from that?

Unless I'm misremembering, wsippel talked about something along those lines some time ago. It would definitely give more credence to the 32nm process being used for the GPU.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

There is one glaring hole in the info that would say he is either not being honest or he's behind on updates.

Que?

 

[Mitsurugi]

So how likely is a HD remake of Mario Kart Arcade GP? The Wii U controller seems perfectly suited for the game (especially since it has a camera built-in) and it'd be dirt simple to port and patch online multiplayer into it. If bundled with every system, it could be a huge selling-point to casuals and hardcore fans alike as well as a prelude to MK8. Also, nothing against the F-Zero series or the reboot hopefuls, but this seems like a much cheaper, faster and therefore more desirable option for Nintendo.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I hope there's some graphical muscle behind each Nintendo effort. Other than Zelda and Metroid...I can't imagine which license will benefit most. I can't imagine the Galaxy games looking any nicer (cept running in higher resolution) considering its artstyle. I'm so unimaginative.

 

[Roo]

Now watching all the E3 demos I wonder what are the chances of Nintendo including all these demos (or new ones in any case) to do some sorta "Welcome to Nintendo HD/Learn how to use your Wii U controller"

I think it would be nice to see and interact with these demos by ourselves in HD

 

[ActStriker]

Maybe new and improved versions of those demos

 

[Log4Girlz]

Now watching all the E3 demos I wonder what are the chances of Nintendo including all these demos (or new ones in any case) to do some sorta "Welcome to Nintendo HD/Learn how to use your Wii U controller"

I think it would be nice to see and interact with these demos by ourselves in HD

They'll probably pack in a whole game instead, ala Wii Sports. Though I would prefer a demo disc than a pack in game I don't care for.

 

[Roo]

They'll probably pack in a whole game instead, ala Wii Sports. Though I would prefer a demo disc than a pack in game I don't care for.

I was thinking something more like built in

 

[Hiltz]

Nintendo's pretty much pointed out that it's trying to find a balance of power with controller innovation which in turn will likely result in a more affordable console.

 

[Jocchan]

They are not going to pack in demos focused on visuals. They'll pack in demos focused on new and original uses for the controller.

 

[Rösti]

I hope there's some graphical muscle behind each Nintendo effort. Other than Zelda and Metroid...I can't imagine which license will benefit most. I can't imagine the Galaxy games looking any nicer (cept running in higher resolution) considering its artstyle. I'm so unimaginative.

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

 

[lednerg]

Have there been any leaks or new info about which Shader Model the GPU will support? Last I heard was people were thinking it would be either SM 4.1 or 5.0. Even if it was 4.0, that would make all these direct comparisons between PS3/360 and Wii U rather pointless (not that they aren't already).

.

Wait, what? Put this back on, dammit.

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

Wave Race would look gorgeous in glorious HD.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Oh it most likely will be able to, question is, at what rates and/or costs (for the gpu).

Basically, what I'm saying is that for one of the clients (gpu, cpu) that memory pool will not behave as edram ; )

Yeah, thanks for that info about the Wii setup, blu. Had no idea. I'd imagine that the Wii U CPU would need to at least be able to access the supposed 32 MB eDRAM at the rate that Gekko could access the 24 MB 1t-SRAM in the Wii in order to make BC easier. Does that sound right or no?

 

[StevieP]

Pretty much what I predicted all along. Right down to the 1Gb of DDR3 RAM (aka, slow) that was rumored.

Still a tad disappointing though, the reason I wanted Wii U to be at least 30% more powerful than PS360 was to nudge MS and Sony into action about next gen. If what you say is true they'll have zero need to.

I predicted the RV730 GPU, which should have had a little more beef than RSX/Xenos, but perhaps it's custom or downclocked.

You know, it could very well turn out that the Wii U has a triple core higher-clocked Broadway (which would make BC perfect) and 1GB of GDDR3 (instead of the 64mb in the Wii), and an RV730 even - or something that would be directly descended from Hollywood in some fashion to continue the 100% hardware BC.

Those specs would certainly mean that Arkham is correct.

However, to see you in the thread proclaiming anonymous poster rumours as fact will remind me to point it out in other hardware-related threads.

 

[Roo]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

Metroid could benefit of HD realistic graphics aswell.
graphics/atmosphere wise, Colonial Marines or that Other M live action trailer are the way to go imo

 

[Fourth Storm]

Haha, so I also finally caught up on this thread. I go to bed and it turns into a riot scene! Anyway, Arkam's info doesn't strike me as legit. The info he gave us was basically things we already knew (actually less than we already knew, thanks to the P.I. skills of bgassassin, lherre, wsippel, and others). Even the "slightly less powerful" comment was from a previous rumor and was never explained to any meaningful extent. In my line of study, when something has the appearance of being pieced together from different written sources, that's usually exactly what it is, and the chances of it actually being independent testimony are very small.

Of course, I want to believe the Wii U will be a decently powerful system as well. I can't deny it. Subjectivity can never be fully 100% eliminated from human reasoning.

 

[Forsaken82]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

Custom Robo and maybe Fire Emblem?

 

[blu]

Yeah, thanks for that info about the Wii setup, blu. Had no idea. I'd imagine that the Wii U CPU would need to at least be able to access the supposed 32 MB eDRAM at the rate that Gekko could access the 24 MB 1t-SRAM in the Wii in order to make BC easier. Does that sound right or no?

You know what, I had entirely forgotten about the BC aspect these past days. Now that you reminded me, it does make sense that something should fill-in for the 1t-sram. Not only that, but flipper's very own edram should be accounted for as well. The gpu should either have a fat texture cache block on top the edram pool, or the cpu and the gpu should somehow have concurrent 'fast' paths to edram, via some kind of partitioning scheme, akin to L3 in power7. Or.. Was it Thraktor who insisted on separate edram pools? Hmm..

 

[royalan]

I agree that Nintendo doesn't have many series that would benefit greatly by having a very realistic tone when it's come to graphics, but those that could use it most efficiently are (in my opinion):

• Eternal Darkness (heavy on atmosphere and ambience)
• F-Zero (think Project CARS graphics)
• Geist (haven't got any suggestions here, but feels like a "heavy on the graphics" title)
• Pikmin (see below)

Pikmin with a lush, photorealistic forest would be a day one purchase for me.

Eternal Darkness II HD would be a killer app for me, the first game was easily one of the best survivor horror games of the PS2/GC/Xbox era.

They should bring it back now that Capcom seems dead set on making Resident Evil just another shooter.

Imagine having to use the upad to organize the runes into unique spells and activate them.

I'm going to stop now...

Spoiler

lest I set myself up for heartbreak ;_;

 

[Rösti]

Have there been any leaks or new info about which Shader Model the GPU will support? Last I heard was people were thinking it would be either SM 4.1 or 5.0. Even if it was 4.0, that would make all these direct comparisons between PS3/360 and Wii U rather pointless (not that they aren't already).


Wait, what? Put this back on, dammit.

The two greatest improvements, in my opinion, from HLSL Shader Model 4 to HLSL Shader Model 5 are the compute shaders and the option to use atomic instructions. While atomic instructions certainly would be a nice thing to have for Wii U (if its architecture is what many believe it to be), it is something they can do without. So an HLSL Shader Model 4 equivalent would certainly suffice.

As to any recent leaks rumors about this, I haven't heard any.

 

[Saint Gregory]

You know what, I had entirely forgotten about the BC aspect these past days. Now that you reminded me, it does make sense that something should fill-in for the 1t-sram. Not only that, but flipper's very own edram should be accounted for as well. The gpu should either have a fat texture cache block on top the edram pool, or the cpu and the gpu should somehow have concurrent 'fast' paths to edram, via some kind of partitioning scheme, akin to L3 in power7. Or.. Was it Thraktor who insisted on separate edram pools? Hmm..

Are we 100% sure that Nintendo is using total hardware BC for Wii U? All I remember them saying is that the BC wouldn't give any graphical upgrades to the games but they could do what Sony did for a while with their 80GB units and use a mixture of hardware and software to accomplish BC.

 

[MoogleWizard]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

 

[Hiltz]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

If there's any game company out there that acknowledges the importance of graphics but keeps is focus set on gameplay, it's Nintendo. In the past, Iwata's stated that graphics can only do so much before they hit a brick wall. In addition, at the start of this generation, Iwata expressed concern about the increase in development costs. So Nintendo will likely remain consciously aware of this while developing games in HD so that resources are not going to be invested too heavily in the graphics department if it means that it will be detrimental to other aspects of game design.Lastly, the fact that the Wii U's hardware features a variety of controller options is yet another example of how Nintendo's using innovation to tackle some of the technical and financial issues developers faced while making games for the HD consoles.

 

[BishopLamont]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

They're doin it for the third parties, nothing more. We'll still be getting the usual generational graphics update from Nintendo (well for most series anyway), but their focus will always be on gameplay above all else.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

Your first post on Neogaf? Way too sensible. Where's the outrageous hyperbole? Where are the expletives? Show some dignity and behave like a real Junior^^

Anyway, I absolutely agree with you. Personally as long as the IQ is cleaned up and the processing power is strong enough to render huge worlds that you can explore, and fool around with, I'm happy.

Xenoblade is a great example as it would've been one hell of an expensive game to make in full HD specification. I don't think we've reached the point of graphics being "enough", but if you take into account what the increase in budget did to a lot of studios, I'd say it should be sustainable first and foremost.

As much as people like to beat the graphics drum. It wasn't graphics or horsepower that made many gamers abandon the Wii. It was mainly the poor extended service and the lack of functionality of the Wii. The online, the stubborn reluctant position about DLC, Online, Patches and Digital Distribution have broken the Wii's backbone ultimately.

Graphics were never a deciding factor for a successfull console. In Fact I find it hilarious when console fanboys argue about graphics, when even Midlevel PCs are far outpacing them.

 

[Linkup]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

Great post. It wasn't until I read it that I realized what happened to me this gen, I just couldn't get excited about graphics anymore. I had plenty of money and time to play tons of games but didn't. What excites me about Last of Us is the concept and gameplay mechanics possible there, same goes for I Am Alive. On the flipside I have zero interest in Uncharted, but did enjoy watching it for a bit at least and same goes for FXIII.

Right now I'm playing Renegade Ops and I would certainly say the graphics are easy on the eyes compared to say ACreed or Batman AA so it's not a bad looking game. I liked Batman AA quite a bit, but haven't bothered to even touch ACreed. I would also say HD helped make Renegade an enjoyable experience. It's really the control and gameplay, just the genre and how they pulled it off that I enjoy. More and more often I'm picking games because of my particular interest in the concept and execution of it. I'm becoming an elitist turd lol.

The things that interest me about the Wii U are the things like using the pad as a sensor in Aliens or as a camera in some horror game. Sad things is I expect devs/pubs to utterly fail in bring these concepts to my system.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

You guys talk a lot of shit but when you see Nintendo go all out in the graphics department for the next Zelda you'll all need your own drool buckets and you know it.

And there aint nothin' wrong with that.

 

[Jaruru]

btw, anybody heard about the "Tokyo Street" demo for Wii U???
or is this old news?...

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

btw, anybody heard about the "Tokyo Street" demo for Wii U???
or is this old news?...

so....old....

 

[jonezer4]

We'll still be getting the usual generational graphics update from Nintendo (well for most series anyway), but their focus will always be on gameplay above all else.

This. There's no way Nintendo will ever fall into that trap. In fact, there was an article recently (on here) where they discussed how some modern developers may focus too many resources on graphics and not enough on gameplay. Nintendo will get the graphics to a point where they escalate, or at the very least don't hinder, the gameplay, and that will be that. I'm sure we'll see some beautiful games, with some beautiful art style. I don't expect either of these, however, to compete graphically with cutting edge games from the other two consoles.

All that said, it does in a way make sense that they could possibly have a system about as strong as a 360, for first party games. I'm not convinced Nintendo would feel they need more than that.

But if they don't want to completely fall out of the third party port market, that is not an option.

Interesting conundrum to say the least.

You guys talk a lot of shit but when you see Nintendo go all out in the graphics department for the next Zelda you'll all need your own drool buckets and you know it.

And there aint nothin' wrong with that.

But would it take a system much stronger than a 360 to please most people, with Zelda? I feel like the jump from 480p to HD (or close) would be enough to wow any fan of the series. There's a law of diminishing returns, I'd argue, plotting customer "wow" factor against graphics. Being accustomed for so long to all Nintendo franchies being in SD, how much happier would they be just seeing them in HD current gen form. And how much does that happiness increase skipping this gen and going into "next gen" graphics. Does whatever that increase is, justify the increase in cost (both from a hardware perspective in spec'ing out the system, and a software perspective in building the game engine, etc).

 

[Übermatik]

You guys talk a lot of shit but when you see Nintendo go all out in the graphics department for the next Zelda you'll all need your own drool buckets and you know it.

And there aint nothin' wrong with that.

Hell yeah. I can easily defend the Wii's graphics through the ol' 'art style and gameplay matters' approach, but hell, I love that Zelda eye candy. I AM a bit of a graphics whore.

EDIT:

.

Needs more expletives and moaning bro.

 

[botty]

Hi, first post ;-) I got validated a while ago & don't know where to post first, so I'll just do it here.

I just wanted to say that, with all the focus on graphics/power in this thread, I hope that Nintendo won't focus too much on the graphics. Visuals like in the Zelda demo with a stable frame rate would be good enough for me, just enough to make the games graphically impressive and not look as horribly outdated as Wii games.

This gen has shown me that graphics just can't wow me anymore. Especially in games like Uncharted or FFXIII where the devs had to put so many resources into making pretty graphics that the game itself suffered from it (FFXIII is like a railway-RPG and Uncharted like an interactive Hollywood movie - impressive when you first see it, but once you look behind the pretty facade it's shallow & forgettable). The result of too much focus on graphics is restricted freedom of the player and probably cut content. Just look at FFXIII & then at Xenoblade, the latter would have probably never been made with HD development costs or would have been much much smaller in scale.

I think that if next gen gets a moderate boost in graphics without jaggy edges, slowdowns and mushy textures, we might finally reach the point where it is "enough", because if developers already had to make sacrifices for HD this gen & for smaller houses one game not selling equals bankruptcy (or even hardware manufactures bleeding money to sell powerful consoles like in the case of Sony/PS3) there has to be a point where it is "enough".

I feel you, bro. Clearly Wii graphics are unacceptable in this day and age, but I can't say that graphics are a selling point to me anyway. I hope the Wii U is the console where I can finally clean a house with some friends online... for happy points.

 

[Jaruru]

so....old....

ops... ops... new for me XD
but the demo was cool, beautiful graphics and real time on the pad