TheCongressman1
Member
But the move is nothing like the Wiimote. It has a ball on top.
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Wii U Speculation Thread 2: Can't take anymore of this!!!
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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But the move is nothing like the Wiimote. It has a ball on top.
Nope, just more people that wants Nintendo to die.
Even if they proved time and time again that they are here to stay.
They have way too much money for this to ever happen.
Sachter Syndrome™. Everyone (in western media) wants to be a doom-prognosticator when it comes to the Big N.
I'm glad more and more people are seeing it and talking about it; I thought I was near-alone in noticing this. Despite "only" leading (dominating?) the handheld business, having the largest home console marketshare, sitting on a mountain of cash with little-to-no-debt, and defying predictions for 25+ years, Nintendo gets shit (and shit-upon) as far as western coverage goes.
I think it's because some of these "analyst" really don't understand the actual industry they are suppose to be analyzing. Or just really suck at their job. The same goes for some in the actual gaming media. It's been said time and time again that there is a bias against Nintendo when it comes to the western part of the industry. Nintendo like all companies does some stupid stuff from time to time I do agree. Still this belief doesn't come from nowhere. The level of negativity directed at them no matter what happens in reality should be clear to see by everyone by now.
This is one of the reasons Nintendo Direct came about. By pass these guy sand talk right to their customers. I think they need to start dropping financial information when they do these as well.
Honestly, if Wii U can't run UE4, they're making the same mistake they made this gen. Third parties either won't support it, or Wii U will get the shitty down-ports of games everyone will buy on 720/PS4. If Wii U has the nerfed version of Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto, they're doing it wrong.
I'm sure they'll still be swimming in money thanks to Just Dance and Mario Kart, but they'd be missing out on a HUGE portion of potential customers.
I'm sure they'll still be swimming in money thanks to Just Dance and Mario Kart, but they'd be missing out on a HUGE portion of potential customers.
AndyMoogle
Member
It's kind of hard to die when you have multiple 10+ million sellers, and a bunch of games that sell at least 1 million each.
Also, selling 90 million Wiis, and 150+ million DSs is pretty good. The 3DS is selling faster than the DS did, but whatever. I'm sure they will go belly up any second now...
If Nintendo is partnering with Crytek for the CryEngine 3, to use an example, if they didn't design the Wii U with UE4 in mind would it really matter in the end? Is it a done deal that developers would jump right to UE4 and completely ignore other engines instead of using both?
Dildo fueled.
And who's fault is that? Nintendo.
Look - I love Nintendo, but it is 100% a company's responsibility to craft their image and how their are perceived. And that extends beyond the gaming industry. Western devs aren't overwhelmingly pro-Nintendo because for years Nintendo made choices that weren't pro-Western devs. Crazy restrictions, fees, hardware choices that outright shunned the general momentum of the western development community, and just a general refusal to meet a lot of devs half-way in developing for their console rubbed the west the wrong way. Especially in light of competition that was becoming increasingly more willing to do whatever it took to get their games. Granted, a lot of the choices Nintendo made proved lucrative for the company, but that doesn't exempt them from the consequences. Namely, a weaker relationship with western devs.
For too long Nintendo was the gaming equivalent of the hot chick who plays too hard to get. Sure, it's alluring at first, but eventually guys are just going to get sick of the tease and go bang your easy friend.
I want Nintendo to have a stronger relationship with western devs because I dream of a Nintendo console with software support to rival the SNES. And, to Nintendo's credit, they seem to be doing more to get that support than they ever have. But the burden is on Nintendo, and only Nintendo, to make it happen.
People aren't going to "guilt" western devs to see how much they're "being assholes" and start hopping onboard the Nintendo train.
I'm getting pretty sick and tired of every analyst, developer, journalist, etc. all hanging from apple's nuts. This is relevant because I feel like any official comment on the industry is made from the vantage point of not like apple = abject failure. Maybe it's because I want to deny the reality that they're paving the way for the future. Maybe it's because I outright loathe and despise apple with the power of a million exploding stars. I don't know, but either way, I find it incredibly aggravating.
Take a look how the apple worship affected analysis of the 3DS. During its sales slump, the most common "analysis" of nintendo's situation called for them abandoning their own hardware and developing for ios. Making ios mario games makes zero sense in the context of long term benefit for nintendo. It'd be good for apple, sure, and they'd sell a lot of dirt cheap digital copies of mario, but it would run counter to the entire purpose of mario which is to sell nintendo hardware. Mario's exclusivity is absolutely crucial to nintendo's hardware success. It's the most bone headed advice possible and in no way designed to be in the best interest of nintendo. People are so blinded by their love of apple that they feel any boon to ios would be a boon to the company that supports it.
And now? Now that the 3DS is doing well, what's the most common comment? They'll never come close to the DS LTD. Nintendo is losing money on the venture. It's ok but sales are in no way sustainable. Nevermind the fact that surpassing the best selling handheld of all time is a terrible rubric for success. Nevermind the fact that the 3DS will begin producing pure profit sometime this year. Most game journalists want the vita to be top dog and most analysts don't give a flying fuck about anything related to nintendo unless it's just an excuse to point out they're not apple. All comments are colored by such pre-existing bias whether or not the vita or apple are openly referenced.
Now I see the exact same shit happening with the Wii U. If nintendo succeeds with their next console, no analyst is going to openly eat crow, just like they're refusing to eat crow for saying the 3DS with it's 20+ million installed base by the end of the year after only 1.5 years on the market is going nowhere. People like pachter are going to sit there with their shit eating grin and talk down any success nintendo has with nonsense like saying "It's a fad." In a lot of ways, I feel like people hate nintendo simply for succeeding in spite of their own expectations for the company - which are outlined with absolute failure.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
It has a lot to do with the fact that the majority of the major western developed games have not graced a Nintendo console since..... the SNES/N64. Developers such as Bioware, Bethesda, Valve, Epic, and Crytek have never even made a game for a Nintendo home console. Also, Nintendo has a nonexistent showing on its console for two of the major western genres: First Person Shooters and Free-Roaming.
Xenoblade is not too big. It's just right. Absolutely my favorite game of this generation.
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
From the 80s till this day I never heard anything positive about Nintendo in any form of media. So why should Nintendo care about the media now?
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Someone who is still a school bully at heart.
You mean like fast travel?
Forsaken82
Member
Not being able to run UE4 will NOT have the same affect that not being able to run UE3 on the Wii had, so I really don't see how it would be the "same mistake". The discrepancy between UE3 and UE4 will be next to nothing compared to UE2 and UE3.
Also, keep in mind, even without UE4, UE3 can (and will) be modified with UE4 features much like Irrational did with Bioshock and UE2.
freeze until E3? or Wii U launch date?
Father_Brain
Banned
There's a lot of truth in this post. I don't think that's enough to justify having a gut-level, visceral hatred of the company like certain persons in the industry seem to have, but the ball is mostly in Nintendo's court if they want to win over Western developers. For me, that's the biggest question mark I'm wondering about for their E3 showing.
There is no bias against Nintendo or, at least, I don't see it. Sony got trashed with hundreds of "Vita is doomed!" articles as well. The thing is that most of the gaming media is unprofessional, sites running by groups of standard core gamers. And, from a core gamer perspective, it really isn't so difficult to be negative towards today's Nintendo.
I just watched that video and ....Oh my.
That Kevin Dent sounds like the worst forum troll I've ever encountered. He calls the Wii controller a dildo, and when asked what he's talking about doesn't even know it's real name. And the bit that really sealed the deal is when he says some startup company that is making some tech to turn an android phone into a Wii remote like controller so you can play HTML 5 games on a smart TV is "Nipping at their heels".
And his mouth. He sounds like a 14 year old pre-pubescent, sexually deprived moron. Big props to Jesse Divinch for taking him on.
Edit: Oh god, I just continued watching after the Nintendo part. What a sleeze bag and what an arsehole to Jesse.
That Kevin Dent sounds like the worst forum troll I've ever encountered. He calls the Wii controller a dildo, and when asked what he's talking about doesn't even know it's real name. And the bit that really sealed the deal is when he says some startup company that is making some tech to turn an android phone into a Wii remote like controller so you can play HTML 5 games on a smart TV is "Nipping at their heels".
And his mouth. He sounds like a 14 year old pre-pubescent, sexually deprived moron. Big props to Jesse Divinch for taking him on.
Edit: Oh god, I just continued watching after the Nintendo part. What a sleeze bag and what an arsehole to Jesse.
Captain Smoker
Member
I can't deny any of that. Spot on, I'll admit.
But we can see that they have been trying to right this.
And while it at least partially explains some bad blood between Nintendo and third parties, it in no way excuses pathetic/unprofessional media coverage (or lack thereof). Media outlets cannot point and say "Nintendo was a dick to those developers in the 80s & 90s" as an excuse.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I agree with much of this.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Perhaps Iwata stole his girlfriend with the hair flap.
I really didn't think this discussion was about third parties to begin with, so I had no idea what royalan was talking about.
This is actually spot on, I can't say anything.
But it'd be nice if people would give this reason instead of just randomly saying "Nintendo has to die."
GameplayWhore
Member
Yeah, Nintendo's most pragmatic option would really have been to get Epic to commit to the lowest possible spec that they'd be willing to make UE4 to work on, and then they could build to that. That'd still be a very Nintendo way to do things, and it'd also reflect their embryonic "Hey, lets throw money at game APIs!" philosophy.
I absolutely agree. I personally hate Nintendo and their attitude.......but their games....oh my.
For me Wii U is a telling generation. While I love their core franchises, I'm lucky enough to have a close friend who also does and is happy to loan his gaming gear to me. So if all they manage is again another Wii situation (Nintendo has top titles) while 3rd parties languish and eventually abandon it, this might be my last Nintendo console because I don't know if Zelda and Metroid can warrant the cost of a new system. Essentially they need to give me more than just their stuff; I need Nintendo to do as much as possible to ensure all 3rd party stuff comes to their machines (Yes I know it's up to devs in the end). Regardless of who's to blame in the end, if they can't get that 3rd party support, I probably won't be able to justify buying their consoles, and who the hell knows what's going to happen in the next 5 years with Apple making inroads and the general gaming landscape changing so much.
BTW: I will add that everything does point to them remedying the situation, I just need to really see it pan out.
Father_Brain
Banned
Another part is that Nintendo's extreme secrecy prevents them from engaging the Western gaming press the way that Sony, MS, and even Japanese third parties do. Prior to GI's Skyward Sword cover story last fall, when was the last time that a Western outlet got a substantial exclusive about Nintendo hardware and first-party software? You'd have to go all the way back to spring 2006, I think (GI Red Steel exclusive, EGM Twilight Princess/Wii exclusive).
Yeah.. I like to bash third parties from time to time, calling them out on paper-thin excuses and smoke-puffery.. but I really do understand the residual unease they have from that era.
But my comments were aimed squarely at gaming media outlets.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Going out of your way to provide middleware tools to make more advanced and efficient games(save time as well) isn't enough.
The excuses have to run out sooner or later.
Latching on to the past isn't making third party developers look any better if they are once again hesitant to make games for another Nintendo system.
Nintendo will always do their own thing because they are their own entity and love control of it but I don't remember a time in recent memory when they have called out as much to developers than now.
It was up to Nintendo all those years, sure, but now it's up to the developers.
The excuses have to run out sooner or later.
Latching on to the past isn't making third party developers look any better if they are once again hesitant to make games for another Nintendo system.
Nintendo will always do their own thing because they are their own entity and love control of it but I don't remember a time in recent memory when they have called out as much to developers than now.
It was up to Nintendo all those years, sure, but now it's up to the developers.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
You guys should watch this: I think I discovered who talked to Kotaku...
http://www.destructoid.com/experts-debate-max-and-tara-talk-with-videogame-analysts-223455.phtml
Analyst 1: Wii U DOA, can't sell it to anyone, Nintendo going Sega, Iwata should be fired
Analyst 2: Depends on how Nintendo markets it: never underestimate Nintendo
Around the 8:30 mark. He shits on Valve as well
No it's his long lost twin brother
Kevin Dent is a moron. That Jesse guy gave the biggest WTF look when Dent said the CEO (Iwata) should just quit now and save himself.
@TheKevinDent You know nothing about Nintendo...
@SwedishOTAKU ok
@TheKevinDent Yes. How you talk about Nintendo, Wii and Wii U is so damn unprofessional and unrealistic.
@SwedishOTAKU great thanks for the feedback, have a nice day.
@TheKevinDent Also, learn how to write man...
@SwedishOTAKU thanks, are we done?
@TheKevinDent You tell me. I know you don't listen to me but you should watch yourself talk crazy about Nintendo and then THINK logically.
@SwedishOTAKU correct, I won't listen to you, but that is the beauty of having an opinionby definition it is neither right or wrong.
@TheKevinDent Then you are just ****ing stupid. How the **** do u and people like dumb ass Michael Pachter get such jobs?
@SwedishOTAKU ok now you are being abusive and it is pointless for me to waste my time trying to have an adult conversation
@TheKevinDent Oh NOW I AM being abusive? What about the **** u speak then? Comparing controllers to dildos isn't adult.
Yikes.
Yup.
I'm always surprised how the western media/investors responds to Nintendo in general. Father_Brain has a point regarding the magazines/press and the way how Nintendo communicates with them, but still: several outings have a certain "hostility" against the company that strikes me as odd. EEDAR being the exception because they are one of the few who actually say "never underestimate Nintendo".
I think now would be a good time to point out that anyone wishing Sony or Microsoft or Apple to leave the video game industry is being a blind fanboy fueled by system wars rage and such ideas should be quashed before they infect others and sully the Sacred Teaching of competition making everything better.
Wanting Nintendo to leave the game industry, however, is apparently Business Analysis™, and should be discussed as a real possibility despite the likelihood of that happening in the next 20 years is zero. This kind of opinion can actually earn you money, and is the official and public position of those with the label of professional analysts, even if their merit is suspect.
I wonder how much marketing money Nintendo would have to spend in order to control that perception. Would any amount ever be enough?
Wanting Nintendo to leave the game industry, however, is apparently Business Analysis™, and should be discussed as a real possibility despite the likelihood of that happening in the next 20 years is zero. This kind of opinion can actually earn you money, and is the official and public position of those with the label of professional analysts, even if their merit is suspect.
I wonder how much marketing money Nintendo would have to spend in order to control that perception. Would any amount ever be enough?
-Pyromaniac-
Member
It's all related though. It all helps shape the negative stigma around Nintendo. And it's impossible to deny that there is one, regardless of whether you think it's deserved or not.
I was moreso responding to the general idea that 3rd party devs (especially western devs) are just this hugely antagonistic hive mind that gets together in basements, drinks Pabst Blue Ribbon, and plots new ways to hate Nintendo. It likes to spring up every few pages.
At the end of the day, everyone wants to make money. Especially as far as publishers are concerned - fuck your feelings.
Nintendo needs to do a better job of communicating that there is money to be made on the hardware with as little investment as possible. This is how the business world works.
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