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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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StevieP

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Sep 10, 2006
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MDX said:
No, sorry. Both MS and Sony went for the 10 year plan. Both sold consoles for a loss and still were sold above mass market prices. Thats not balanced. The Wii was a balanced system but was simply overshadowed by having two leading console manufactures who wanted to leapfrog over a generation.

"10 year plan" has always been absolute BS PR. And it still is. All 3 next gen consoles have a shot at releasing Holiday 2012, though I think MS is further ahead in its plans than Sony is.

The Wii was a fairly balanced system for an SD machine, but being an SD machine was precisely what Blu was referring to when he said "in the extreme opposite direction".

Wii doesn;t use a Radeon GPU though, it uses Hollywood, a faster version of Flipper which was designed before the first Radeon existed.

As I said earlier, all of ATI's current GPUs have some of Flipper in them. Some of the tech that ARTX built was well-utilized by ATI/AMD in its future generations of cards.

Source? Because at last check, the game tie-ratio was quite good and near 360/PS3.

These are not exact figures, but approximations from memory on a Gamasutra article. The Wii tie ratio is something like 7.2, the PS3 7.6, and the 360 8.2 (or something like that).

GAF has depressing times ahead of itself if it's true. A lot of people are honestly obsessed over visuals here.

Then GAF should buy a PC. Primarily as a result of the direction GPU manufacturers have gone to ramp up power, you won't be getting another console generation where one releases to beat out what a high (or even medium-high) end PC can do on release. At least not for a very long time. Closed systems can be more efficient at producing results, of course, but there is still a thermal limit present as well as diminishing returns to contend with. Mind you, that won't stop one or both of the other console manufacturers from putting out CGI trailers that will make GAF believe otherwise for a very long time. But the reality will differ, just as it did at the onset of this generation. Sony's "1080p" marketing and Microsoft's "we're mandating 720p" (where some of the launch games ran at near-SD) come to mind.
 
Apr 20, 2011
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StevieP said:
As I said earlier, all of ATI's current GPUs have some of Flipper in them. Some of the tech that ARTX built was well-utilized by ATI/AMD in its future generations of cards.


True, I forgot about that.
 

sfried

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snesfreak said:
I use my Wii plenty, and tomorrow I'll finally have a TV that can do 480p.
And 1080p
Speaking of output scalers, what's this talk about using video memory being used in BC for other Wii-specific functions that it might not have enough to upscale it to 1080p? And on another topic, Wii2HDMI or HDMiKey (with no scaling)? I'm still wondering which one produces less lag.
 

Luckyman

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StevieP said:
"10 year plan" has always been absolute BS PR. And it still is. All 3 next gen consoles have a shot at releasing Holiday 2012, though I think MS is further ahead in its plans than Sony is.

Not at all. Actually they will be sold well beyond the age of 10 years. Tens of millions to be sold and hardware revisions to come.
 

StevieP

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Luckyman said:
Not at all. Actually they will be sold well beyond the age of 10 years. Tens of millions to be sold and hardware revisions to come.

"10 year plan" is BS and entirely PR. You can sell something for a decade if you want to, and keep it in production... but there are limited resources available in regards to new software development to keep the ecosystem going, and you'd better believe many of those are being dedicated to Vita and PS4 now, nevermind a few years from now.
 

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
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theflyingthoughtsblog.wordpress.com
http://www.officialn...-wii-u-preview/

Developers Vigil are still early in their plans for the Wii U version of Darksiders 2, but are excited about the potential of the controller's touchscreen being linked to Death's equipment. You might perhaps be able to drag and drop armour and weapons onto his body - while watching the character on your TV gradually getting tooled up as you do so.

After only a few weeks with the Wii U development kit, however, the team were genuinely buzzing with excitement - the graphics looking to match the top-spec PC iteration and the code working remarkably well on the hardware. It's early doors yet, of course, but the signs are that, for non-Nintendo developers, the Wii U is great system to work with - a far cry from the 'new hardware issues' that other consoles (most notably the PlayStation 3) have presented for third-party developers in the past.
 

Zoramon089

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Jul 27, 2006
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Yea, I think this is the first time the Wii U version was said to match the top spec PC version

BTW, the URL is broken
 

Boogybro

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Zoramon089 said:
Yea, I think this is the first time the Wii U version was said to match the top spec PC version

But I thought the footage they showed off at E3 (which was running on wii u hardware btw) looked worse than current gen consoles.

right guys!!!?
 

KrawlMan

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Mpl90 said:

http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/29257/darksiders-2-wii-u-preview/
Found it.

Also, the information about its visuals matching the "top-spec pc version" don't appear to be backed up by any quotes from the developer that I noticed. Not to mention that contradicts what Vigil previously said in that they weren't looking to "bump up" the Wii U version in any way (unless of course the "top-spec" pc version is basically identical to the PS3/360 version).
 

StevieP

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Boogybro said:
But I thought the footage they showed off at E3 (which was running on wii u hardware btw) looked worse than current gen consoles.

right guys!!!?

You had me for a second. I thought my sarcasm meter was broken.
 

BurntPork

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May 12, 2011
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KrawlMan said:
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/29257/darksiders-2-wii-u-preview/
Found it.

Also, the information about its visuals matching the "top-spec pc version" don't appear to be backed up by any quotes from the developer that I noticed. Not to mention that contradicts what Vigil previously said in that they weren't looking to "bump up" the Wii U version in any way (unless of course the "top-spec" pc version is basically identical to the PS3/360 version).
Well, they didn't specifically say console version when talking about bumping it up.
 

wsippel

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May 25, 2006
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KrawlMan said:
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/29257/darksiders-2-wii-u-preview/
Found it.

Also, the information about its visuals matching the "top-spec pc version" don't appear to be backed up by any quotes from the developer that I noticed. Not to mention that contradicts what Vigil previously said in that they weren't looking to "bump up" the Wii U version in any way (unless of course the "top-spec" pc version is basically identical to the PS3/360 version).
You're wrong. Vigil actually said they were achieving parity with either console version, and were now looking into whatever higher quality PC assets they have to bump it up, because clearly, what they have on PS360 isn't maxing out Wii U. They could go higher, but THQ isn't allocating the required budget. That's what Vigil said.
 

KrawlMan

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wsippel said:
You're wrong. Vigil actually said they were achieving parity with either console version, and were now looking into whatever higher quality PC assets they have to bump it up, because clearly, what they have on PS360 isn't maxing out Wii U. They could go higher, but THQ isn't allocating the required budget. That's what Vigil said.

Well clearly I should have reread what Vigil said. You know there are ways of telling somebody they were incorrect without sounding like a prick.

I was referring to having read this:
The studio's Jay Fitzloff told VideoGamer.com that the Wii U version is "the same" as the PS3 and Xbox 360 versions. "We're not trying to bump up or bump down," he said, "but we reached it, and it wasn't hard. Once we got it up and running it was like 'cool, there it is."

If something is more updated than that, sorry.
 
Nov 26, 2006
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goldmetalsonic.wordpress.com
Yeah they removed the article, I saved the page, is it fine if I post the upload of the page? Or would that be of poor taste because it was removed in the first place?

By that I both saved the page the old fashioned way, but it's obviously incomplete/basic-looking, but for kicks, I actually snapped the whole article if you're interested. :p
 

[Nintex]

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Hero of Legend said:
Yeah they removed the article, I saved the page, is it fine if I post the upload of the page? Or would that be of poor taste because it was removed in the first place?

By that I both saved the page the old fashioned way, but it's obviously incomplete/basic-looking, but for kicks, I actually snapped the whole article if you're interested. :p
There must be something in there they didn't want anyone to see...

At first glance it didn't seem that special so we need to examine every word and sentence so see what they are hiding.
 

AceBandage

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Mar 22, 2007
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phosphor112 said:
Lol, there is no way it'll look as good as a PC. Journalism these days. :lol
Darksiders 2 for the Wii U should easily look as good as the PC version.
They'll both be optimized the same.
 

phosphor112

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AceBandage said:
Darksiders 2 for the Wii U should easily look as good as the PC version.
They'll both be optimized the same.

I will admit, Darksiders 2 probably wont be a "good" looking game compared to the rest of the games on the market, but there is no way the Wii U can compare to PC. That goes for any console.
 

[Nintex]

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AceBandage said:
Darksiders 2 for the Wii U should easily look as good as the PC version.
They'll both be optimized the same.
You'd be surprised what forcing some AA tricks can do for PC games and Wii U won't replicate that. Also Wii U will be limited to 1080p, PC could go up way higher.
 

AceBandage

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Mar 22, 2007
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[Nintex] said:
You'd be surprised what forcing some AA tricks can do for PC games and Wii U won't replicate that. Also Wii U will be limited to 1080p, PC could go up way higher.


Oh, I know. I did that with the original.
But as a base game, they'll likely be identical.
 
Nov 26, 2006
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So how much of a bump do you guys expect DS2 to get on PC from PS360? What's the norm for PC versions anyway when compared to their PS360 counterparts?

Wasn't the game built on PC primarily? I thought I heard so, I'm very likely wrong.
 

AceBandage

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Hero of Legend said:
So how much of a bump do you guys expect DS2 to get on PC from PS360? What's the norm for PC versions anyway when compared to their PS360 counterparts?

Wasn't the game built on PC primarily? I thought I heard so, I'm very likely wrong.
Outside of resolution and maybe framerate, no bump.
They didn't add any kind of effects to the original PC version and they won't the sequel.
 

bgassassin

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wsippel said:
Not at all - if it's an SoC. Actually, the press release seems to support my theory. They don't mention L3 cache at all, and call the eDRAM "part of the silicon package", not "part of the CPU". They give "feeding the CPU data" as an example, but that doesn't mean it's the only the thing the eDRAM does or can do.

I disagree still. The press release specifically said, "IBM's unique embedded DRAM". I think you missed the last time I responded to you about this, but when I think unique eDRAM for IBM I think L3 cache on the chip with each core having direct access to its own portion while still having access to the other eDRAM.

KrawlMan said:
Well clearly I should have reread what Vigil said. You know there are ways of telling somebody they were incorrect without sounding like a prick.

I was referring to having read this:


If something is more updated than that, sorry.

I think the better one was when they specifically said that unless the final hardware turns out to be some kind of beast, they will not be adding anything visually to the Wii U version. But when looking back they kind of contradicted themselves because I recall them also saying in that article that they wouldn't change it regardless of minor of major revisions. In fact here is the link and the statements follow each other.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-19-wii-u-has-plenty-of-horsepower-dev
 
Apr 20, 2011
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I cannot wait to find out how much better the Wii U core hardware is than Xbox 360 and PS3, and how it compares in every aspect.
 

MDX

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After doing some research, Im really thinking Nintendo is going with something new like SoP and not SoC with their CPU and NAND flash.

What did IBM say:

The all-new, Power-based microprocessor will pack some of IBM's most advanced technology into an energy-saving silicon package that will power Nintendo's brand new entertainment experience for consumers worldwide

They used the word "package".
They could have simply said "SoC", or "chip" as they did with the Wii:

Earlier this year, IBM and Nintendo signed a multi-year microchip production agreement to support the upcoming launch of Nintendo’s eagerly anticipated Wii video game console. The chip, code-named “Broadway,” will deliver experiences not previously possible on video game consoles.

The reasons:

Three-dimensional (3D) chip integration may provide a
path to miniaturization, high bandwidth, low power, high
performance and system scaling. Integration options can
leverage stacked die and/or silicon packages depending on
applications.

SoP:
System-on-Package (SOP) technology based on silicon carriers has the potential to provide modular design flexibility and high-performance integration of heterogeneous chip technologies and to support robust chip manufacturing with high-yield/low-cost chips for a wide range of two- and three-dimensional product applications. Key technology enablers include silicon through-vias, high-density wiring, high-I/O chip interconnection, and supporting test and assembly technologies... High-density wiring and high-density chip I/O interconnection can enable tight integration of heterogeneous chip technologies which approximate the performance of an integrated system-on-chip with a ‘‘virtual chip’’ using the silicon package for integration... Further, the thermal expansion of the silicon carrier package matches the chip, which helps maintain reliability even as the high-density chip microbump interconnections scale to smaller size.


We know Nintendo likes to keep their consoles small, running cool, green and silent.
IBM introduced SoP back in 2007-8.

IBM is not the first company to talk about TSV (Intel is), but could be one of the first to commercially exploit them. IBM will deliver samples of communication chips with TSV to customers later this year and begin commercial production in 2008. TSV will reduce power consumption in silicon germanium chips, a favorite of IBM's, by around 40 percent. In these chips, microscopic holes will be drilled into the chip and filled with tungsten to create the TSVs

NAND Flash:
For the first time, the 3 dimensionally stacked NAND Flash memory, is developed by implementing S3 (single-crystal Si layer stacking) technology, which was used to develop S3 SRAM previously. The NAND cell arrays are formed on the ILD as well as on the bulk to double the memory density without increasing the chip size. The feasibility of the technology was proven by the successful operation of 32 bit NAND flash memory cell strings with 63nm dimension and TANOS structures. The novel NAND cell operational scheme, so called SBT (source-body tied) scheme, is presented to maximize the advantages of 3 dimensionally stacked NAND cell structures






http://news.cnet.com/IBM-connects-chips-for-better-bandwidth/2100-1006_3-6175355.html
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/datbus/article.php/3881086/Is-IBMs-Foundry-Business-Next-to-Go.htm
 

bgassassin

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I saw you mention that elsewhere MDX, I'll read up on that when I get the opportunity.



Matt Ryan from Nintendo of Canada

This is a small part of a long read about multiple Nintendo-related things.

http://www.examiner.com/canada-nint...ames-friday-launches-wii-u-anniversaries-more

Shifting focus to the Wii U, I noted that at E3, much of the focus was on the new controller. With that, I asked if they were also looking to continue the Wii direction of games on the system with more new titles which focus on the Wii Remote and Nunchuk controllers than on the newer controller, which had reportedly been limited to the use of one per system. After all, the Wii gained quite a following, and it would be a shame to see that direction abandoned before it is fully explored.

"Let me correct something that is a misconception," Ryan began. "We said that the Wii U system will come with one Wii U controller, but we haven't said that you can only use one Wii U controller. The fact is that if the developer makes a game or an experience that uses more than one, then anything is possible."

"What we've also talked about is to imagine taking some of the experiences you've had at your own home, putting them on your Wii U controller, and taking that with you somewhere else. That would again get rid of that myth and misconception that only one can be used. So, the possibility is there, but the system will only come with one at this point."


I asked him to elaborate on what he meant, as Nintendo Global President Satoru Iwata had previously noted in response to people talking about taking the Wii U controller with them to the washroom or bedroom to play might have a difficult time getting that kind of range out of it. So what then does he mean by "taking the Wii U experience with you?"

"Okay, so that I can elaborate on. The Wii U is not a portable handheld device you're going to take with you in transit or into a proximity away from the Wii U console, but you can take content from your console, put it on your Wii U controller, take it with you somewhere else, and be able to upload it. That technology is possible."

I likened it to the Wii Remote, which has a small amount of memory for storing Miis and the like, and he noted it is "similar, but that's kind of basic, what you can do with the Wii Remote. Taking a Mii with you is cool and fun, but this has the possibility to do more... not on the go, but once you get somewhere else where you take your stuff to someone else's environment, it's definitely possible."

As an example, I put forth the possibility of loading up your team and plays in Madden and taking it to a friend's house (who also has a Wii U, of course), and both being able to play from their own controller.

"It's hard for us to commit to anything concrete, but yes, it's a possibility because the controllers are compatible. It's possible to have that kind of experience."

I smiled.
 

BurntPork

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That's a relief. Hope this means they realized that selling the controller separately can be worthwhile if they stick to a lower than normal profit margin and keep the supply a bit lower until they're sure of the demand.
 

maeda

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If true, so fucking sweet! We need Four Swords Adventures HD and Crystal Chronicles HD! By the way, since Nintendo and Bamco seem to be getting closer, do you guys think they will bring Pac Man VS back?
 

Fou-Lu

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Matt Ryan is a good guy.

(On an unrelated note, does anyone else drive their self crazy with each new console hoping it will bring back your favorite franchises?)
 

maeda

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Ichor said:
Matt Ryan is a good guy.

(On an unrelated note, does anyone else drive their self crazy with each new console hoping it will bring back your favorite franchises?)
Can't one man dream that Wii U library will be a merge of: GameCube, Wii, Xbox 360 and even DS?!
 

Penguin

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bgassassin said:
I saw you mention that elsewhere MDX, I'll read up on that when I get the opportunity.



Matt Ryan from Nintendo of Canada

This is a small part of a long read about multiple Nintendo-related things.

http://www.examiner.com/canada-nint...ames-friday-launches-wii-u-anniversaries-more



I smiled.

I got to say, reading the interview as a whole is kind of weird.

He writes it like you would expect in a novel. Giving the reader/audience mentions of when he does/say something.

So odd
 

bgassassin

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That might be why I had a tough time reading through it and began to skim for anything relevant. It felt weird compared to what I'm used to.

maeda said:
If true, so fucking sweet! We need Four Swords Adventures HD and Crystal Chronicles HD! By the way, since Nintendo and Bamco seem to be getting closer, do you guys think they will bring Pac Man VS back?

Hope redeemed! But a solid online component will make that possible as well.
 

MDX

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"The purpose of showing those accessories was to show they were compatible with Wii U, which just proved the point that the Wii U is backwards compatible not just from a software perspective to Wii, but also from an accessory perspective. So your investment in that box or basket of controllers and accessories you have is still going to be usable with Wii U."

Its as if... as if they were trying to sell the controller, like they sold the Wiifit board. Just another accessory to the Wii-mote. Except you have to update your Wii box too.

So now I wonder if Nintendo would do a program where you could turn in your Wii for a discount to buying the Wii-U... (to capture that fickle casual gamer) And would they dump all those used Wii's to open up new markets in difficult countries by selling the Wii's at rock bottom prices?

Nahhh thats just crazy talk.
 

maeda

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bgassassin said:
Hope redeemed! But a solid online component will make that possible as well.
Well so far Nintendo and Online haven't been the best of friends, plus local multi is better than Online. I just wish I had all my friends from my home country with me. :(
 
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