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Wii U Speculation Thread of Brains Beware: Wii U Re-Unveiling At E3 2012

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Vinci

Danish
I disagree.

While it's true that PS3 and 360 focused largely on securing their demographics first instead of diving headlong into the blue ocean like Nintendo did, they did have extended audiences in mind. Microsoft with gradually turning their Xbox Live platform into a general entertainment hub, and Sony largely with bluray. Hell, part of the PS3's extreme launch price can be directly attributed to Sony banking on people wanting a PS3 for the bluray player like non-gamers who bought into the PS2 for the cheap DVD playback. Of course, we all know it didn't quite work out that way.

Because they didn't care what the mainstream audience wanted. They attempted to dictate to the mainstream audience what it should care about, but that's not how it works. As for X-Box Live: Look, Live is fantastic. I'm a big fan of the service. But it was not what was used to sell people on the system; it was not the outward face MS showed to the public - the games were. And those games were not friendly to general audiences; the controller was not friendly to general audiences.

And I'm fairly sure that, without the Wii, neither would have had the slightest clue how to approach the mainstream audience. All of MS and Sony's attempts prior to Kinect to engage a larger audience failed horribly; Kinect was the first time either showed the slightest bit of understanding as to what Nintendo had done and how to, in some small part, recreate it.

Securing your demographic first then moving into the blue ocean seems to be a strategy that's by and large working for Microsoft, as they're now enjoying a level of AAA software support across all genres the likes of which hasn't been seen since the PS2.

Yes. It works for Microsoft, a company that has invested billions of dollars it will possibly never recoup into getting things up and running. Nintendo cannot do that; Sony cannot do that. You are proposing that this is some highly intelligent move, except it requires having one step short of a monopolistic hold on a market for over two decades to maintain.

They're doing well. That's great. But to suggest that some general strategy can be gleaned from their example is a bit illogical.
 

royalan

Member
Because they didn't care what the mainstream audience wanted. They attempted to dictate to the mainstream audience what it should care about, but that's not how it works. As for X-Box Live: Look, Live is fantastic. I'm a big fan of the service. But it was not what was used to sell people on the system; it was not the outward face MS showed to the public - the games were. And those games were not friendly to general audiences; the controller was not friendly to general audiences.

And I'm fairly sure that, without the Wii, neither would have had the slightest clue how to approach the mainstream audience. All of MS and Sony's attempts prior to Kinect to engage a larger audience failed horribly; Kinect was the first time either showed the slightest bit of understanding as to what Nintendo had done and how to, in some small part, recreate it.

Again, PS2 says hi.

Nintendo is not the first console manufacturer to target mainstream audiences, nor did they hold the key to that demographic prior to the Wii. Sony was actually quite good at appealing to the mainstream last gen (and the gen before), and Microsoft seems to be well on their way with Kinect and their Live services (the latter of which is definitely not a page from Nintendo's book).

Nintendo did change the game with motion controls, though. That's something I'd never try to take from them. But it wasn't like casual audiences were a mystery until the Wii. Nintendo was just willing to do what the others weren't: sacrifice their traditional markets to go after them first.

Yes. It works for Microsoft, a company that has invested billions of dollars it will possibly never recoup into getting things up and running. Nintendo cannot do that; Sony cannot do that. You are proposing that this is some highly intelligent move, except it requires having one step short of a monopolistic hold on a market for over two decades to maintain.

They're doing well. That's great. But to suggest that some general strategy can be gleaned from their example is a bit illogical.

Not exactly the same situation. Microsoft lost billions getting a foothold in a market they had virtually no presence in until 10 years ago. They are well past that point in the gaming industry (well, unless they make some stupid mistakes next gen).
 

Anth0ny

Member
But in two years we will have the next gen consoles. Uncharted has no real art style to speak of, thus it will age badly when the new consoles hit. Today's realistic graphics are tomorrow's joke.

Pretty much.

Compare GTA IV to GTA V even. IV is unbearably bad.
 

BurntPork

Banned
Yes, but the technical differences between TP and SS are minimal. The stuff I dislike about TP, such as the ugly characters, have less to do with tech and more to do with art.

How could you not love this little guy?

p36oM.png
 
But in two years we will have the next gen consoles. Uncharted has no real art style to speak of, thus it will age badly when the new consoles hit. Today's realistic graphics are tomorrow's joke.

We're past that stage already. Sure that applies to 1st gen 3d games and early 2nd gen, but at this point and time, if a game looks good, it stays that way. A lot of NES games are rough on the eyes, but SNES games and onward are still easy to look at.

Also saying uncharted has "no real art style so to speak" of just reeks of fanboyism. Do you even know what you're saying??
 

Hiltz

Member
The npcs in Twilight Princess are quite creepy looking. Zelda's npcs look so much better with Wind Waker-esque character designs in my opinion.


By the way, developer Alvion is showing support for Wii U and 3DS with a 2012 recruitment banner. It released a downloadable action game called Malicious for the PS3 in Japan back in 2010. It's currently bringing over an enhanced port to the PS Vita and is considering a western release for the PS3 version.
 

Log4Girlz

Member
And here I thought the polygon models for TP were amazing. I love well designed low poly art. That kid is great, I mean he's ugly but intentionally.
 

snesfreak

Banned
I still say some of the complaints about SS are people bitching just to bitch, not that the game doesn't have problems but come on.
But I should shut up since having an opinion is bannable on gaming side.
 

HylianTom

Banned
Skyward Sword's intro is 3x as long. I actually no longer have an issue with TPs. SS's feels so forced. :/

And I actually like Malo.

Absolutely. I just played the first ten hours of TP yesterday. It's been three years since I last played, and I'm liking Malo much more this time around. He offers heroic business deals!
 

BurntPork

Banned
I still say some of the complaints about SS are people bitching just to bitch, not that the game doesn't have problems but come on.
But I should shut up since having an opinion is bannable on gaming side.

Hey now, I'm loving the game so far. (Though, I guess that the fact that I haven't touched it in three days says otherwise.) But that intro took about two hours.

Then again, I might just still be upset about the skydiving part. Fucking hell, worst controls in the history of video games! If Zelda Wii U has a similar falling mechanic, my controller will not last very long.
 

ASIS

Member
Hey now, I'm loving the game so far. (Though, I guess that the fact that I haven't touched it in three days says otherwise.) But that intro took about two hours.

Then again, I might just still be upset about the skydiving part. Fucking hell, worst controls in the history of video games! If Zelda Wii U has a similar falling mechanic, my controller will not last very long.

... the skydiving? How can you have problems with that of all things?

no no, this isn't a Zelda thread, I will not go this road.
 

Hiltz

Member
The worst offender with motion controls in SS is probably the boss key door puzzles. Just having to hold down the A button while tilting and turning the Wii remote felt awkward and frustrating. I hope Wii U's Zelda abandons the idea.
 
Totally. Look how they did with the Wii and Galaxy + SS, and now think what they can do with a vastly more powerful system.

Or with Mario 3D Land, for a handheld I long predicted to be GC-level, the fact it runs a Wii-level game is pretty amazing, and SSFIV, being a PS360 game port and running in 60fps w/o 3D is NOM NOM NOM. *drool*

I have no doubt the Wii U will dazzle people with at least certain games, and almost certain to the level where it'll be a clear leap above the PS360.

Hey, the Wii U already fixed one issue that I despised on at least the 360 (not sure if the PS3 was prone to this):

Blocky shadows.

What an eyesore those were, but everything I've seen from those demos (The bird one and Lego from those screens), show that they are crisp and very realistic.

Now that is a godsend.
 

snesfreak

Banned
I had problems with the skydiving at first, but got it down pretty quickly I guess.
Most of the issues I had could be fixed with a cheat code (yay homebrew!), the item collection stuff popping up again and whatnot.
Could have toned Fi down a bit, but whatever I liked her for the most part.

*lame attempt to keep post on topic*
I hope they make sure to fix the item popups repeating in the Wii U Zelda, one less thing to complain about.
And I definitely hope they keep the sword controls, they were awesome.
I wonder how they'll use the U controller though, if they still use the WM+.
I hope they go for something that looks like ALttP's artwork, I've wanted a game that looked like that since it came out. And the Wii U can definitely handle it.
 
Let's look at November NPD:

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (360, PS3, WII, PC)** Activision Blizzard 8.99 million (Less than 100K on Wii, even less on PC Retail)
2. Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (360, PS3, PC)** Bethesda Softworks - 2.8 million
3. Battlefield 3 (360, PS3, PC)** Electronic Arts
4. Assassin's Creed: Revelations (360, PS3, PC) Ubisoft - ~1.26 million
5. Just Dance 3 (Wii, 360) Ubisoft
6. Madden NFL 12 (360, PS3, Wii, PSP, PS2)** Electronic Arts
7. Uncharted 3: Drake's Deception (PS3)** Sony - 700k
8. Saints Row: The Third (360, PS3, PC)** THQ
9. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword (WII) ** Nintendo
10. Batman: Arkham City (360, PS3, PC)** Warner Bros. Interactive

I'd consider the bolded dudebro games, and the italicized "borderline dudebro games", which are still "socially acceptable" games to play. Nintendo doesn't get many of these games, which gives it it's "kiddy" image.

The point is, the dudebro games are selling. And they sell all damn year. I think, at this point, the dudebro audience is far larger than the casuals/grandmas audience (the Wii/Kinect buying audience, someone correct me if I'm wrong). Especially with iPhones and all that shit eating into that audience.

So I really don't see the dominance of COD and other FPS games going anywhere anytime soon. And if Nintendo likes money (which we KNOW they do), they would go for this audience...

Two controller Madden will be the gateway.
 
The actual tilting for Skydiving does not start until the camera changes. If you try tilting before that, even half a second before that, it does not count. When that camera changes, wherever the wiimote is currently angled in 3D space is the new base zero.

Once I figured that out, I got to the bird's nest in one try.

But no, 100% broken. 100%. Literally impossible to do.
 

AzaK

Member
Two controller Madden will be the gateway.
Very interesting point. Do you think it will get them to keep buying Wii U software after 720/PS4 come out though? That's what Nintendo needs to make sure of. I'm not really sure on the dudebro's buying patterns. Are they generally a single console owner like casual/family/mum/dad gamers?

Because it doesn't work. The falling controls are 100% broken and another case of unnecessary motion control.
I don't get this at all. There is no problem at all with the controls. You just tilt and Link moves. I really think most people's issues with the controls is their misunderstanding. Almost everything in SS sets a "centre point" when the action is instigated; item selection, bow and arrow etc. So in order to not feel off, before you instigate an action, point the Wii Remote at the centre of your screen. Then relative movements from there will feel natural.
 
How could you not love this little guy?

p36oM.png

Indeed. I loved that little guy! :)

Normally NPCs get on my nerves because invariably they are helping to tell the story [yawn] in a cut scene and I have to twiddle my thumbs whilst waiting to do what I actually play games to do i.e. play them!

However the cinematics were so well done in TP I couldn't help but warm to the children and the little chap above in particular.

I totally fell in love with Midna though *blushes*. I hope she comes back at some point! :(

I still say some of the complaints about SS are people bitching just to bitch, not that the game doesn't have problems but come on.
But I should shut up since having an opinion is bannable on gaming side.

The irony being that the last part of your last sentence is more likely to get you banned than the first part :/.

Very interesting point. Do you think it will get them to keep buying Wii U software after 720/PS4 come out though? That's what Nintendo needs to make sure of. I'm not really sure on the dudebro's buying patterns. Are they generally a single console owner like casual/family/mum/dad gamers?

*snip*

My feeling is that they will go where the rest of the dudebro herd go. That may just be ignorant prejudice on my part though. Fortunately I do not know any dudebros in real life.

So this Wii U thing huh? Let's speculate about that, hm?
 

snesfreak

Banned
The irony being that the last part of your last sentence is more likely to get you banned than the first part :/.
I was pretty much banned for that first part, and all I did was agree with someone else's post.
I see posters get away with 10x worse shit every day, makes me paranoid as hell about posting anything on gaming side.
I won't go anywhere near the sales-age threads, that's a damn trap if I've ever seen one.
 
I was pretty much banned for that first part, and all I did was agree with someone else's post.
I see posters get away with 10x worse shit every day, makes me paranoid as hell about posting anything on gaming side.
I won't go anywhere near the sales-age threads, that's a damn trap if I've ever seen one.

:/ Well that's just the nature of the beast I am afraid. It all depends on which Mod sees your post, how they take what you post and interpret your intention or even if it is seen by a Mod at all.

That's the trouble with text, there is no body language or tone of voice to help convey the poster's intention. It is all too easy to misinterpret a poster's intention and take a post the wrong way.

I try to be very careful how I phrase my posts but generally steer clear from posting anything too opinionated anyway. Not so much from fear of being banned but more from not needing the hassle from those who can't cope with someone having an opinion that differs from theirs. It's just not worth the agro.

You have been banned before though haven't you?
 
I'm not talking time-wise, I'm talking technology, capability and approach.

Jump from XBOX to 360 = massive.

Jump from PS2 to PS3 = massive.

Jump from Gamecube to Wii = erm, not so good.

Jump from Wii to WiiU?

From what we've seen, quite a progression - but compare it to the likelihood of Microsoft and Sony releasing far superior consoles shortly after launch, and you have a stop-gap console.
If from Xbox to 360 is massive, from Wii to Wii U will be MASSIVE.
 

snesfreak

Banned
:/ Well that's just the nature of the beast I am afraid. It all depends on which Mod sees your post, how they take what you post and interpret your intention or even if it is seen by a Mod at all.

That's the trouble with text, there is no body language or tone of voice to help convey the poster's intention. It is all too easy to misinterpret a poster's intention and take a post the wrong way.

I try to be very careful how I phrase my posts but generally steer clear from posting anything too opinionated anyway. Not so much from fear of being banned but more from not needing the hassle from those who can't cope with someone having an opinion that differs from theirs. It's just not worth the agro.

You have been banned before though haven't you?
Yeah, 3 times actually.
I'd say only one of them was actually deserved.
 
Two controller Madden will be the gateway.

Which is why they really should consider selling controllers separately at launch. They need "ambassadors" to be able to demonstrate the appeal of such a game changer, so to speak. What good is it if you have your buddy over, but can't play a game of Madden to its fullest because one guy doesn't get to hide his plays?
 

BurntPork

Banned
Yeah, 3 times actually.
I'd say only one of them was actually deserved.

Protip: Mods will always be inconsistent. It's a fact of the internet. If you've ever been a mod on even a moderately active forum for a few months or so, you'd probably understand why they tend to have consistency issues.
 
Very interesting point. Do you think it will get them to keep buying Wii U software after 720/PS4 come out though? That's what Nintendo needs to make sure of. I'm not really sure on the dudebro's buying patterns. Are they generally a single console owner like casual/family/mum/dad gamers?

That's where you have to ask the question will the difference in graphics outweigh the difference in gameplay that the controller can provide? I'm not expecting a dramatic difference between the consoles, so can Nintendo's controller bring enough of a difference in gameplay to cover and exceed the graphical gap. And that's going to come down to developer execution to make Wii U a worthwhile choice. If everyone is just slapping a map or inventory on the controller, then I don't think the chances are that good.
 
That's where you have to ask the question will the difference in graphics outweigh the difference in gameplay that the controller can provide? I'm not expecting a dramatic difference between the consoles, so can Nintendo's controller bring enough of a difference in gameplay to cover and exceed the graphical gap. And that's going to come down to developer execution to make Wii U a worthwhile choice. If everyone is just slapping a map or inventory on the controller, then I don't think the chances are that good.


We should not count on the controller difference to help Nintendo. MS and Sony can easily copy the uPad just like motion controls and maybe even improve on it just like Nintendo was forced to improve wiimote to Motion Plus.

If it looks like a success early on I do not think Sony and MS will wait as long to copy the uPad as they did the motion waggle
 
We should not count on the controller difference to help Nintendo. MS and Sony can easily copy the uPad just like motion controls and maybe even improve on it just like Nintendo was forced to improve wiimote to Motion Plus.

If it looks like a success early on I do not think Sony and MS will wait as long to copy the uPad as they did the motion waggle

Actually that's a major part of what I'm factoring into the difference in gameplay.
 
I don't get this at all. There is no problem at all with the controls. You just tilt and Link moves. I really think most people's issues with the controls is their misunderstanding. Almost everything in SS sets a "centre point" when the action is instigated; item selection, bow and arrow etc. So in order to not feel off, before you instigate an action, point the Wii Remote at the centre of your screen. Then relative movements from there will feel natural.

Seriously. No idea how anyone could have a problem with the sky diving controls. Plus yeah, like you said, people need to realize that how you're holding the control when the action, or the item you're using starts, that is the 0,0,0 all movement will be based from that starting point.

Also I just want to add that TP's "tutorial" section is a good 3 hours at least. SS's is maybe an hour and a half.
 
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