bgassassin
Member
Indyana said:
Thanks. I see how I missed it.
Indyana said:
Fourth Storm said:The fact that we're talking about Nintendo "getting through" this holiday is at the heart of the problem. Hell, Nintendo SHOULD be supporting the Wii at least through holiday 2012 with a new release here and there. They're just letting it dry up and expect everyone to buy the new Wii U or end-of-life Wii licensed shovelware. Yet, they choose to not even release games in the U.S. that are complete. They've grown out of touch with their U.S. fans. Most other successful systems saw a limited release of games even after the successor has launched, but for the 3rd home console and running now, it seems as if Nintendo will abandon the installed base of the system in a blatant and nearly disrespectful manner - this time a good 6 months before Wii U even releases. For shame.
cartman414 said:Question is: will it have enough juice to do it without choppiness/jaggies/etc.?
At times, I tend to forget who I'm dealing with, as you are exactly right.guek said:I reeeeally wouldn't put it past nintendo to not distinguish between upscaled 1080p and native 1080p
I'm sure its a concern for nintendo and their titles which are framerate depended will definitely run at their usual 60fps. Problem is that nintendo tends to think everyone can do what they can on their systems, so they won't have a clue that it is hard as hell for the rest of the developers outside of Shin'en lolcartman414 said:Question is: will it have enough juice to do it without choppiness/jaggies/etc.?
I know a person who is an investor of MoSys and other technological companies, we talked about Wii U a few days ago and I became surprised with a comment from him about the new console:
"Wii U uses 28nm manufacturing process from NEC and 1T-SRAM from MoSys"
I asked him how he could know it and he told me that this information have been shared to the investors of MoSys because Nintendo partnership is the more important one for them and any signal of losing the deal can be very dangerous for the health of MoSys business. Since he isn´t a technical person I didn´t ask him about technical specs, but the 28nm comment was very interesting.
As for the latest round of tech that we do know about, Yerli may not be particularly taken with the PlayStation Vita (Jones is more diplomatic, and says Crytek will work with the machine when the timing is right and the interest from licensees is significant) but he's excited about the Nintedo Wii U.
The specs are very good," Yerli enthuses.
"It's a challenge for designers, but once thought through it can add value, and that's what ultimately important. Our guys in Nottingham they are very happy with their tests on the dev kits and they're excited about it."
guek said:nintendo wont release another new controller for wii U. They're going to run off the back of the classic controller. That's your non-tablet controller right there.
I wish they would use this manufacturing process to build its CPU and GPU.disap.ed said:From Beyond 3D:
"Wii U uses 28nm manufacturing process from NEC and 1T-SRAM from MoSys"
It would make sense, and I think it'll be redesigned.IrishNinja said:i might be imagining this, but wasn't something said @ E3 about the classic controller being used more? i absolutely would love having the option for wiimote & pad for games which utilize them better, and a default classic pro for everything else.
Indyana said:I wish they would use this manufacturing process to build its CPU and GPU.
boris feinbrand said:Makes you wonder if Nintendo used e3 to gauge consumer interest and get feedback from 3rd parties to know how fast the final product should become.
Gamer @ Heart said:Has there been any word on whether they are putting in the Wii chips in there for perfect backwards compatibility?
Is is possible for them to use those same chips for other functions when not running Wii software? Like loading off the screen to the Wii's GPU?
boris feinbrand said:What was the former estimation? 45nm?
If so, isn't that considerably smaller, and more expensive?
Makes you wonder if Nintendo used e3 to gauge consumer interest and get feedback from 3rd parties to know how fast the final product should become.
I don't know. I believe it will be at 32nm.disap.ed said:Well, GPU probably will be built on 28nm too after all.
IBM revealed that their CPU will be at 45nm. AMD said nothing about their manufacturing process.boris feinbrand said:What was the former estimation? 45nm?
If so, isn't that considerably smaller, and more expensive?
Makes you wonder if Nintendo used e3 to gauge consumer interest and get feedback from 3rd parties to know how fast the final product should become.
Indyana said:I don't know. I believe it will be at 32nm.
IBM revealed that their CPU will be at 45nm. AMD said nothing about their manufacturing process.
IBM is going to produce the CPU at its factory, so I guess it makes sense to them.boris feinbrand said:But does it even make sense to use different die sizes?
So it has no effect on performance in the final architecture?Indyana said:IBM is going to produce the CPU at its factory, so I guess it makes sense to them.
Oh, yes, it's going to drop compared to another smaller manufacturing process. It's bigger, it needs more energy, it needs better cooling.boris feinbrand said:So it has no effect on performance in the final architecture?
boris feinbrand said:So it has no effect on performance in the final architecture?
McHuj said:Maybe indirectly, but not really. It would only really effect power consumption and manufacturing costs of the system.
I guess I'm a little surprised Nintendo would be going with a 28nm GPU, but that would certainly address the overheating rumors that we've been hearing about without the need to drop clock rates/reduce performance.
StevieP said:28nm GPUs are still not available to the mainstream AMD GPU consumer, let alone Nintendo's chip.
Perhaps MoSys is still a partner with WiiU for 1T-SRAM for backwards compatibility? I.e. if the Power7 derivative or the 476FP or whatever isn't perfectly BC with the G3 in the Wii? They'll put the Wii guts inside on an SoC along with the 24mb of MoSys ram? Just a thought.
Naked Prime said:Given how the 3DS's reception and NCL attempts to remedy it, this is more than likely so. I'd almost wanna say that next years E3 Wii U may look like a completely different machine that what we originally thought. More so in aesthetics & branding, but I suspect a modest bump in some specs (nothing to drastic though, this is Nintendo) over what they were originally planning to do.
IrishNinja said:i might be imagining this, but wasn't something said @ E3 about the classic controller being used more? i absolutely would love having the option for wiimote & pad for games which utilize them better, and a default classic pro for everything else.
wsippel said:Assuming the 1T-SRAM rumor is correct, on Hollywood, the eTC is directly connected to the TEV units, right? And TEVs are basically TMUs on crack as far as I understand. Would it make sense to use a more modern GPU, but replace the TMUs with TEVs?
Naked Prime said:"Our guys in Nottingham"
Might that be Crytek UK, formerly Free Radical developers of Timesplitters......hmmmm
StevieP said:28nm GPUs are still not available to the mainstream AMD GPU consumer, let alone Nintendo's chip.
Perhaps MoSys is still a partner with WiiU for 1T-SRAM for backwards compatibility? I.e. if the Power7 derivative or the 476FP or whatever isn't perfectly BC with the G3 in the Wii? They'll put the Wii guts inside on an SoC along with the 24mb of MoSys ram? Just a thought.
Toshiba and NEC together said today that they would extend their agreement with IBM to produce 28 nanometer chip technology. The deal sees the members of the larger alliance continuing to work on the smaller, more efficient technology with the intention of using it for home user products. They now also say they expected 28nm to be particularly useful for "mobile communication devices" such as smartphones.
...
Other members of the 28nm alliance include Chartered, AMD's former manufacturing arm GlobalFoundries, Infineon, Samsung and STMicroelectronics. These are likely to use 28nm for smaller, more powerful mobile chipsets, including probably ARM-based smartphone processors from Samsung and cellular chips from Infineon.
StevieP said:28nm GPUs are still not available to the mainstream AMD GPU consumer, let alone Nintendo's chip.
McHuj said:I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
The WiiU isn't coming out for another 6-9 months (maybe more) so the today's availability of 28nm GPU's shouldn't be an indicator of anything. Anyway's, we'll probably have 28nm GPU's
Luckyman said:They will be used in most expensive high end products first.. yields will be problem
So do you think they will make the Wii U a console that sells close to a loss considering the measures they did with 3DS?McHuj said:I know yields are going to be a problem at first. But it's a temporary problem.
My hope is that Nintendo is willing to live with that in the short term. I'm ready to be disappointed.
sfried said:So do you think they will make the Wii U a console that sells close to a loss considering the measures they did with 3DS?
Jin34 said:The 28nm is about the ram, memory chips are less complex and thus ahead in node tech compared to gpu/cpus. Considering the likely release date of the Wii U it is just way too much of a risk to go with 28nm when that won't come out until the end of the year, likely rife with low yields and AMD/Nvidia and probably Apple.
http://semiaccurate.com/2011/09/08/exclusive-tsmc-raises-prices-on-amd-and-nvidia/
Production of 90nm Microsoft Graphics-Memory Subsystem Underway
Hsinchu, Taiwan, R.O.C. â August 15, 2007 - Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company, Ltd. (TSE: 2330, NYSE: TSM) today announced that Microsoft has started production of the Microsoft Xbox 360 graphics-memory subsystem using the TSMC 90nm embedded DRAM process. Designed to meet the needs of volume consumer electronics devices, the TSMC 90nm eDRAM process features a high-density macro design (80Mb) and fast performance to 500MHz
I'm honestly wondering if it has to do with them actually being happy with it, or if they are merely running the course because they can now port from the other two without much trouble.Plinko said:If Crytek is happy with it and excited about the system that's a great sign.
abstract alien said:I'm honestly wondering if it has to do with them actually being happy with it, or if they are merely running the course because they can now port from the other two without much trouble.
Plinko said:If Crytek is happy with it and excited about the system that's a great sign.
I missed this, when did they say this?Plinko said:If Crytek is happy with it and excited about the system that's a great sign.
Mithos said:I missed this, when did they say this?
I really don't think you should get excited. 28nm for a GPU would be ridiculously expensive right now, and they'd have to be looking to put in quite a bit of power if they're going that small; definitely enough that there shouldn't be doubt over whether or not it's significantly more powerful than current consoles unless they're really not even trying. That said, we haven't heard anything about Wii U hardware in months, so something may have changed there.bgassassin said:That's exactly what I'm expecting after what happened with the 3DS.
I don't have much knowledge in this area, but to me that sounds like the GPU is going to be a 28nm chip and it's the process of implementing eDRAM (1T-SRAM in this case) on a fabrication of that size. For example NEC originally made the daughter-die for Xenos with production being switched over to TSMC. Here is the article from that.
http://www.beyond3d.com/content/pr/75
Xenos is 90nm. Separately, the eDRAM is 80Mbits (10MB).
And of course NEC was involved with Flipper and Hollywood (safe assumption) as well.
With that article, supply was a big thing I harped on as to why I didn't think 28nm was possible in any of the next consoles. But if Nintendo, Sony, and MS use someone that doesn't utilize TSMC, it may not be as big an issue. I didn't even think of other companies outside of TSMC and Globalfoundries.
But yeah, it sounds to me Wii U will have a 28nm GPU. Never even imagined that before today.
Lord Ghirahim said:It could always be the case that Crytek doesn't acknowledge it as a "next-generation" system. That statement is pretty empty.
I dunno about that exact sequence of events, but considering the way they seem to be trying to address 3DS concerns as directly as they can, I do wonder what it means for the Wii U. Is this a general trend of listening to outside opinions, or do they consider the 3DS particularly catastrophic?boris feinbrand said:Makes you wonder if Nintendo used e3 to gauge consumer interest and get feedback from 3rd parties to know how fast the final product should become.
BurntPork said:I really don't think you should get excited. 28nm for a GPU would be ridiculously expensive right now, and they'd have to be looking to put in quite a bit of power if they're going that small; definitely enough that there shouldn't be doubt over whether or not it's significantly more powerful than current consoles unless they're really not even trying. That said, we haven't heard anything about Wii U hardware in months, so something may have changed there.
I was talking about the node when I said small.bgassassin said:Little guek growded up. I still fell Crytek did that to have people get some perspective about the next consoles and what not to expect.
Who said I was excited? I'm more shocked at the possibility than anything else. The cost is something I've believe to be an issue as well and like I mentioned I didn't expect any of the new consoles to use it.
And you refuse to let go of the "Power relates to size" argument I see. Considering the Wii used 18w, it could be just as easily said that they are trying to keep the Wii U as low as possible as well. I'm all for them cramming as much as possible under the hood without pricing it out of my range, but that's definitely not an indicator of a power increase. And at the same time we'd have to have a tangible origination point to say something truly changed. A first dev kit isn't a good one since we all know it's a poor man's version of the final hardware.
If Nintendo were to use that for the GPU, they could easily make the console much more powerful than the current gen. 5x would be the low-end estimate, and 8x would be the high-end, even taking case size into consideration.artwalknoon said:So for someone like me who doesn't even know what 28nm means, what does it mean for the wii u, if its true?
guek said:I'm gonna say...2gb minimum of ram if crytek is actually "happy."
AzureJericho said:Oh snap, please as punch if this turns out true. The Crytek comment has brought a little flare of hype back to this in my eyes.
Can't wait to see if Nintendo delivers a SSJ2 Gohan of a console.