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[Christine]

Another thing... what exactly are people expecting to see on the screen? Personally, I haven't imagined anything polygonal. Maybe I'm biased from 8 years of DS play, but all I'm seeing in my head are inventory screens, maps, HUD being cleaned of the main TV and relegated to the controller screen... nothing really crazy. I think it's a damn shame that what essentially equates to hitting the start button is holding us back from 1080p or 60fps.

This is entirely the wrong way to think about it. Performance can be dynamically allocated to either screen, so a game that's only throwing 2D elements on the pad will have more power available to it than a game that uses both displays heavily. This is probably not sufficient in and of itself to shift an engine from 720p to 1080p, but will have a noticeable effect.

If the system doesn't deliver 1080p, it's the power, chassis, and silicon profile that Nintendo's chosen that's holding it back, not the pad. If it doesn't deliver 60fps, it's more likely due to the fact that developers have chosen to prioritize lighting, surface, and static image quality processing over framerate, not the pad.

In any game for which it's the display sent to the pad that's holding the main display back, I think it's safe to say the display on the pad will not resemble your DS experiences.

 

[Bagu]

To bad an HD re-release won't fix TP's terrible pacing issues during the first half of the game.

 

[AceBandage]

Nintendo love to re-release games, and an HD upgrade of sorts is just about the only way to do so since it will be their first HD console. Unless they want us to play with borders and whatnot, which I can see them doing as well.

I dunno about loves...
The NPC games were very limited.
And the Mario and MPT were both extremely rare after release.

 

[abstract alien]

I dunno about loves...
The NPC games were very limited.
And the Mario and MPT were both extremely rare after release.

Yeah, I guess I lumped re-released software with remake, which I shouldn't have done.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Summary of the last few pages for the technology noob anyone?

In the early days, the Wii U will be somewhat more powerful (think miniscule increased performance, poly counts and maybe true 720p), but later on as dev's become more accustomed it could theoretically surpass those expectations by small margins. Basically what we already knew.

I think people fail to realize that elephant in the room, which is Nintendo is not aggressively stomping the rumors of Wii U's HW being a very small improvement...quite the opposite. Which they did very much so when they were ramping up the N64/GC HW's, it's basically the same "no comment, doesn't matter" PR line we saw with the Wii. To expect the Wii U to be anything but a minimal-to-moderate improvement over current standard is being willfully irrational in light of the evidence, current info and how Nintendo is reacting and responding.

 

[abstract alien]

In the early days, the Wii U will be somewhat more powerful (think miniscule increased performance, poly counts and maybe true 720p), but later on as dev's become more accustomed it could theoretically surpass those expectations by small margins. Basically what we already knew.

I think people fail to realize that elephant in the room, which is Nintendo is not aggressively stomping the rumors of Wii U's HW being a very small improvement...quite the opposite. Which they did very much so when they were ramping up the N64/GC HW's, it's basically the same "no comment, doesn't matter" PR line we saw with the Wii. To expect the Wii U to be anything but a minimal-to-moderate improvement over current standard is being willfully irrational in light of the evidence, current info and how Nintendo is reacting and responding.

I don't really know much about how the streaming works or what power aspects are taxed during the process, but that has been the main reason why I've kept my expectations for power in check. Maybe if the hook were something else, I would be more open, but streaming to a portable just seems like a needy task in terms resources. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this side of things though.

 

[guek]

To expect the Wii U to be anything but a minimal-to-moderate improvement over current standard is being willfully irrational in light of the evidence, current info and how Nintendo is reacting and responding.

I think a lot of people confuse the general excitement and anticipation in this thread for high end hardware expectations. From what I can see, most understand that Wii U is not going to be a huge leap. I think most just want it to be definitively "better than current gen."

All I want is "good enough to run some form of UE4."

 

[TheExplodingHead]

I don't really know much about how the streaming works or what power aspects are taxed during the process, but that has been the main reason why I've kept my expectations for power in check. Maybe if the hook were something else, I would be more open, but streaming to a portable just seems like a needy task in terms resources. I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this side of things though.

I'm not sure how bug/lag free it will be either, especially if we hope to see Nintendo continue their trend of a fast snappy UI and hopefully seamless OS integrations. At that point we might see some dedication on the hardware level (maybe a small memory pool) to help that consistency in streaming and keeping loading down (on the screen and off) as it relates to the OS and features.

I think a lot of people confuse the general excitement and anticipation in this thread for high end hardware expectations. From what I can see, most understand that Wii U is not going to be a huge leap. I think most just want it to be definitively "better than current gen."

All I want is "good enough to run some form of UE4."

I think it will run UE4 in some capacity. The question I have is will it be able to run it extravagantly enough to justify more dev's choosing the UE4 over the cheaper UE3 for Wii U dev? For exclusives of course, otherwise it depends on lead platform. And that's where the Wii U will get hurt, when the "lead platform" becomes X3/PS4 and comparatively the games look and run like garbage.

So we might eventually go back to the Wii day's of either bad ports, or simply rare exclusives. And in that scenario, will dev's choose to go UE4 or modified UE3? I don't know...

 

[guek]

I think it will run UE4 in some capacity. The question I have is will it be able to run it extravagantly enough to justify more dev's choosing the UE4 over the cheaper UE3 for Wii U dev? For exclusives of course, otherwise it depends on lead platform. And that's where the Wii U will get hurt, when the "lead platform" becomes X3/PS4 and comparatively the game look and run like garbage.

So we might eventually go back to the Wii day's of either bad ports, or simply rare exclusives. And in that scenario, will dev's choose to go UE4 or modified UE3? I don't know...

Maybe. I think the term "bad ports" will translate to "good enough" though. Wii's biggest problem later on in its life cycle as far as software was concerned was that not only did its games look like garbage on a lot of tvs, it got skipped over for most ports due to hardware limitations. I may be very naive in thinking this but as long as games are in HD, they don't look worse than current gen games, and, you know, they exist on the platform at all, things will be peachy.

 

[wsippel]

I think people fail to realize that elephant in the room, which is Nintendo is not aggressively stomping the rumors of Wii U's HW being a very small improvement...quite the opposite. Which they did very much so when they were ramping up the N64/GC HW's, it's basically the same "no comment, doesn't matter" PR line we saw with the Wii. To expect the Wii U to be anything but a minimal-to-moderate improvement over current standard is being willfully irrational in light of the evidence, current info and how Nintendo is reacting and responding.

Nintendo clearly communicated that hardware doesn't matter to them anymore, no matter how powerful it is. It's just a vehicle. Saying anything at this point would be backpedalling. I heavily doubt they care about the current rumors, regardless of whether they're correct or not. Why should they care? Specs are just arbitrary numbers hardly anybody understands, releasing them is completely pointless. Only a tiny minority cares, and even that minority has no clue what those funky number actually mean. It's all about the games, and Nintendo isn't ready to show them yet.

And honestly: Why would they spend more than two years and millions, or tens of millions of dollars on a custom chipset if they could get some off-the-shelf shit for cheap? Quad core 476FP, Mobility Radeon 5650, some cheap DDR3 - done. If they didn't care, they could have gone with something ARM/ PowerVR based. Good enough even for Epic, powerful enough for HD. But they didn't.

 

[HylianTom]

I think a lot of people confuse the general excitement and anticipation in this thread for high end hardware expectations. From what I can see, most understand that Wii U is not going to be a huge leap. I think most just want it to be definitively "better than current gen."

All I want is "good enough to run some form of UE4."

Pretty much. Personally, 360-level is quite nice. But for third party purposes, I realize that Nintendo's gonna need a bit more oomph.

I'm expecting a half-step above the PS360 (and to be clear, I'm being deliberately vague here with my word choice here). Not too shabby, especially when you're stepping-up from Wii level graphics. Since I haven't gotten acclimated to the HD twins' levels, I'm gonna be in for something of a treat..

 

[Krev]

I can't help but think Pachter was right about one thing: Nintendo should have worked hard and started planning earlier so Wii U could be released before December 2011. Even if it were to be more expensive than Nintendo would have liked for a launch price.

 

[fernoca]

I can't help but think Pachter was right about one thing: Nintendo should have worked hard and started planning earlier so Wii U could be released before December 2011. Even if it were to be more expensive than Nintendo would have liked for a launch price.

The same Pachter that said that the $250-3DS was priced too low; and Nintendo should've charged more at launch?

Nah!

 

[TheExplodingHead]

Nintendo clearly communicated that hardware doesn't matter to them anymore, no matter how powerful it is. It's just a vehicle. Saying anything at this point would be backpedalling. I heavily doubt they care about the current rumors, regardless of whether they're correct or not. Why should they care? Specs are just arbitrary numbers hardly anybody understands, releasing them is completely pointless. Only a tiny minority cares, and even that minority has no clue what those funky number actually mean. It's all about the games, and Nintendo isn't ready to show them yet.

And honestly: Why would they spend more than two years and millions, or tens of millions of dollars on a custom chipset if they could get some off-the-shelf shit for cheap? Quad core 476FP, Mobility Radeon 5650, some cheap DDR3 - done. If they didn't care, they could have gone with something ARM/ PowerVR based. Good enough even for Epic, powerful enough for HD. But they didn't.

This is true. But all I was saying is compared to their PR lines during the N64/GC day's (when btw HW was still just a vehicle) they reiterated and reiterated again it was going to exceed or outperform direct competition and/or be "cutting edge hardware", essentially they were on the "hey look at my graphics" bandwagon, all that changed with the Wii era. Is all I was saying, and it changed because they knew they obviously had no clout to make that assertion...other than you'll say "wow". Point being, when Nintendo sidesteps visual potential questions, expect a bare minimum.

And just because you spend a lot of time and cash on a peice of HW, doesn't mean it'll be some amazing performance/graphics miracle machine or be priced accordingly...just ask Apple and Nintendo's $250 for Wii HW.

 

[Krev]

The same Pachter that said that the $250-3DS was priced too low; and Nintendo should've charged more at launch?

Nah!

Well, you know what they say about broken clocks.
If Wii U is to be perceived as a current gen machine, then the more time on the market in advance of PS4 and Xbox 3, the better. It's better to be relevant for two-three years as the most powerful machine of this gen than to release as rumours of a far more powerful device just around the corner are kicking into overdrive.

 

[A.KU.MU]

This just in. Nintendo E3 hype trains just derailed. No more hype. No news or leaks...

 

[HylianTom]

Maybe. I think the term "bad ports" will translate to "good enough" though. Wii's biggest problem later on in its life cycle as far as software was concerned was that not only did its games look like garbage on a lot of tvs, it got skipped over for most ports due to hardware limitations. I may be very naive in thinking this but as long as games are in HD, they don't look worse than current gen games, and, you know, they exist on the platform at all, things will be peachy.

As far as graphical prowess goes, I suspect that the difference between "good enough" and PS720-levels is going to be smaller than many realize. And, no matter who's on top, folks are going to look mighty silly when arguing about how much better their favorite hardware is.

edit: A.KU.MU - I said "wow!"

 

[jacksrb]

Just because you give a console an innovative controller doesn't mean third parties will take full advantage of its capabilities.

I personally love the Wii U controller. There's a lot to love about it. But I don't think a controller is going to decide whether people fall in love with Nintendo's first party games.

And a controller doesn't make something fun for everyone. It's the type of game it is. Wii motion plus didn't make Skyward Sword or Metroid Prime 3 fun for the entire family. Only for hardcore gamers.

Hey, I love it too. Day 1.

But anyway, I agree that 3rd parties aren't necessarily going to take advantage of everything.

I thought the premise of your original post was that Nintendo was heading down a rough track, and I am saying that they might not have a good track to take. If they release a PS3-esque machine [high end price and tech], the third parties won't take advantage of the power difference while the business model supports them doing WiiU-360-PS3 cross ports [until the next-box and PS4].

So you are not getting the instant benefit from 3rd parties as far as making games that make the power (& price) difference worth it for those games. I mean, the framerate might be better, etc., but it won't be a vastly different look.

Anyway, so I think that Nintendo (as always) will float their own boat.

 

[hatchx]

This just in. Nintendo E3 hype trains just derailed. No more hype. No news or leaks...

[MG]http://www.abload.de/img/deraileda6ka4.png[/QUOTE]


Isn't this all based on a rumor too?

 

[fernoca]

Well, you know what they say about broken clocks.
If Wii U is to be perceived as a current gen machine, then the more time on the market in advance of PS4 and Xbox 3, the better. It's better to be relevant for two-three years as the most powerful machine of this gen than to release as rumours of a far more powerful device just around the corner are kicking into overdrive.

But the thing is that the console wasn't ready last year. Heck, developers haven't received final dev kits yet. For all intents and purposes the Wii U is a "next-generation console"; even if it's just considered by many as next generation compared to the Wii.

And Nintendo (apparently) learned from their mistake of launching early, without strong support and high-price with the 3DS; doubt they were going to make the exact same mistakes a few months later; just for the sake of perceptions.

Also keeping in mind that is everything is around the (again) perception that the next Xbox and the new PlayStation are going to be this huge-generational leaps compared to their predecessors.

Isn't this all based on a rumor too?

That and was stuff that has been known for some time; only that some people took it to the extreme.

 

[TheExplodingHead]

As far as graphical prowess goes, I suspect that the difference between "good enough" and PS720-levels is going to be smaller than many realize. And, no matter who's on top, folks are going to look mighty silly when arguing about how much better their favorite hardware is.

edit: A.KU.MU - I said "wow!"

At this point I honestly think it'll be more about how features and services are integrated into ports that'll make the "good port/bad port" argument, as well as loading times.

So I really do think it's a bigger question of which HW can run X or Y engine most effectively AND still be able to seamlessly tie in services and features into the experience with the best UI. Because that's what the end user experience comes down to, that's what will decide the best version of software.

 

[HylianTom]

But the thing is that the console wasn't ready last year. Heck, developers haven't received final dev kits yet. For all purpose the Wii U is a "next-generation console"; even if it's just considered by many as next generation compared to the Wii.

And Nintendo (apparently) learned from their mistake of launching early, without strong support and high-price with the 3DS; doubt they were going to make the exact same mistakes a few months later; just for the sake of perceptions.

Also keeping in mind that is everything is around the (again) perception that the Xbox and the new PlayStation are going to be this huge-generational leaps compared to their predecessors.

Won't it be funny if/when those consoles take more modest steps upward? It wouldn't surprise me, given how much certain developers and middleware salesmen are openly pushing for more more more. Makes me wonder if they know things.

 

[Nilaul]

This just in. Nintendo E3 hype trains just derailed. No more hype. No news or leaks...

Did you draw that?
Atleast we know now how the train got in the desert.

 

[pieatorium]

Hey, I love it too. Day 1.

But anyway, I agree that 3rd parties aren't necessarily going to take advantage of everything.

I thought the premise of your original post was that Nintendo was heading down a rough track, and I am saying that they might not have a good track to take. If they release a PS3-esque machine [high end price and tech], the third parties won't take advantage of the power difference while the business model supports them doing WiiU-360-PS3 cross ports [until the next-box and PS4].

So you are not getting the instant benefit from 3rd parties as far as making games that make the power (& price) difference worth it for those games. I mean, the framerate might be better, etc., but it won't be a vastly different look.

Anyway, so I think that Nintendo (as always) will float their own boat.

I think it's also a dangerous thing to want or expect third parties to do anything with the uPad screed. Thats when you get into the realm of DICE saying they're not making a WiiU version because they don't see a good option for the controller, thats fine just don't use the screen and give me the same game thats on the other platforms.

 

[Bullza2o]

This just in. Nintendo E3 hype trains just derailed. No more hype. No news or leaks...

But most of us are in that train!

 

[Krev]

But the thing is that the console wasn't ready last year. Heck, developers haven't received final dev kits yet. For all intents and purposes the Wii U is a "next-generation console"; even if it's just considered by many as next generation compared to the Wii.

And Nintendo (apparently) learned from their mistake of launching early, without strong support and high-price with the 3DS; doubt they were going to make the exact same mistakes a few months later; just for the sake of perceptions.

That's why I was saying they should have started planning earlier, so the machine was ready by then.
The Wii was a zombie in Christmas 2011. It would be a pretty smooth Xbox->360 type transition if they brought out a new machine a few months ago, rather than leaving their home console for dead for a year.
Nintendo really need to improve in that area. The same thing happened at the end of the N64 and GCN's lifespans.

Also keeping in mind that is everything is around the (again) perception that the next Xbox and the new PlayStation are going to be this huge-generational leaps compared to their predecessors.

I think they'll learn from Nintendo and take a more modest leap forward, but I still expect them to comfortably outclass Wii U.

 

[JaseMath]

This just in. Nintendo E3 hype trains just derailed. No more hype. No news or leaks...

BEST. FAN. ART. EVER.

 

[hatchx]

I think it's also a dangerous thing to want or expect third parties to do anything with the uPad screed. Thats when you get into the realm of DICE saying they're not making a WiiU version because they don't see a good option for the controller, thats fine just don't use the screen and give me the same game thats on the other platforms.

I find that hard to swallow. Just throw the damn radar on it.

 

[AceBandage]

Excuses will be made regardless.
It's up to Nintendo to get third parties on board.

 

[pieatorium]

The Wii was a zombie in Christmas 2011.

Wii outsold PS3 in the US for Nov+Dec 2011, 1.9 million for those 2 months.

 

[EDarkness]

Whew. Finally made it through the whole thread.

First of all, I think the information IdeaMan provided is awesome. It shows the system is quite capable, but as one would expect the overhead of dealing with two screens does come at a cost. I would imagine that the system would look pretty amazing if it weren't doing anything substantial with the extra screen. Everyone should have expected this from the beginning, but if they were able to get the bird demo and the Zelda demo going and looking like they do (even at 720p) using both screens, then I'm not worried about the system at all. It'll be fine and I'm sure most people won't even care because games will look great, regardless.

I'm quite excited.

 

[Krev]

Wii outsold PS3 in the US for Nov+Dec 2011, 1.9 million for those 2 months.

Oh really? Shows what a force Zelda is on release I guess.
Problem is, now it's really dead, for like...a year.

 

[OrangeGrayBlue]

Can't believe we're already over 1/4 of the way to the Speculation thread 4.

 

[HylianTom]

Oh really? Shows what a force Zelda is on release I guess.
Problem is, now it's really dead, for like...a year.

That's usually Nintendo's M.O., sadly. Sacrifice the final year in exchange for a better launch. It's especially evident when third party support is sparse. This is backlog/replay season for me..

Can't believe we're already over 1/4 of the way to the Speculation thread 4.

Seems about right - we're humming along! The train above is a different one from the one we all boarded..

 

[Nilaul]

The story presented by the train images so far:

In an alternative universe, Nintendo owns most of the world. They are an entertainment business, an architecture firm, an construction firm, a tele-communication firm, a transport firm and many other. You can not go any where in the world with out seeing the word nintendo on.

This is a story of a fellow young man, Mr John Neogaf. It was day like any other, he would wake-up go into the ultra sonic Nintendo train, get out go to work, return to his house, eat and sleep. However little did he know, that today was the last day of humanity like he knows it.

He woke up as planned, ate breakfast as planned, got dressed as planned, walked into the station at planned. He then marvelled the amazing view as planned; an infinite city of greenery and skyscrapers and... Nintendo constructions plastered all other the place.

He got into the train... sat down. The train started moving, he then heard a terrible roar. All the people rushed towards the windows to take a look outside. The sky turned cloudy, flashes appeared out of them, suddenly a strange spacecraft came crushing into one of the skyscrapers. People started panicking. Then an emergency broadcast appeared on the advertising banners on the train. Mr Miyamoto, President of the world. "Our planet is under attack by an unkown force, all people please go into the designated shelt...". BAM! Something hit the train, the train started falling... Another blast followed, one of the fuel tanks exploded.

In this alternative world the trains are fuelled by an blue glowing substance, its is extremely efficient and ecological, however if it explodes everything in the perimeters explosion freezes for a few hundred years.

Some 1000 years later...

Our hero finally awakens... "Why is it so hot here?". He takes a look at the trains interior... "What's up with all the sand"?. He climbs out of the train, which is partially buried. He gasps. Gone are the skyscrapers, gone is the greenery, all he can see is an endless ocean of sand.

To be continued.


Ofcourse the story needs some fixing, I dont story write.

 

[Christine]

Maybe. I think the term "bad ports" will translate to "good enough" though. Wii's biggest problem later on in its life cycle as far as software was concerned was that not only did its games look like garbage on a lot of tvs, it got skipped over for most ports due to hardware limitations. I may be very naive in thinking this but as long as games are in HD, they don't look worse than current gen games, and, you know, they exist on the platform at all, things will be peachy.

That's pretty much my position. The network service elements of the platform are far more important, especially vis-a-vis providing a healthy marketplace for 3rd party DLC and DD content. That's where I'm still more than half convinced Nintendo will fall short.

 

[DarkChild]

Bullshots had nothing to do with the promises by them of 1080p/HD consoles.

Both Killzones were at 720p. Downgrade total OMG liars!!!

360 was always supposed to be 720p machine. They later updated it with 1080p, but rarely any game uses it.

BTW, reading Ideaman's posts it seems like I was right on track when I said WiiU aint gonna be nuclear powered as some of you suggested.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Whew. Finally made it through the whole thread.

First of all, I think the information IdeaMan provided is awesome. It shows the system is quite capable, but as one would expect the overhead of dealing with two screens does come at a cost. I would imagine that the system would look pretty amazing if it weren't doing anything substantial with the extra screen. Everyone should have expected this from the beginning, but if they were able to get the bird demo and the Zelda demo going and looking like they do (even at 720p) using both screens, then I'm not worried about the system at all. It'll be fine and I'm sure most people won't even care because games will look great, regardless.

I'm quite excited.

This post sums up my own feelings pretty well.

 

[bgassassin]

Well, PICA200 with it's parametric engine is supposedly the most efficient embedded GPU on the planet and still handles a lot of modern effects (some of which would make Vita break in sweat), so fixed function certainly isn't quite dead yet. A gaming system isn't general purpose, Nintendo doesn't have to give a fuck about stuff like CAD, Photoshop, video encoding or scientific computing - for dedicated hardware, DSPs and fixed function pipelines make a whole lot of sense. Nintendo doesn't have to follow any arbitrary and way too broadly defined standards like DirectX or OpenGL to begin with, so they're free to do whatever they want.

Speaking hypothetically, if there is truth to the rumor of making sure the GPU is capable of running UE4, I could see the reason for that being the GPU is a "Flipper 2.0" (for those wondering I wouldn't consider Hollywood the 2.0 version). It would seem that the needs for UE4 are basically DX11(-equivalent) and a certain level of tessellation capabilities. A Flipper 2.0 may not have originally been able to achieve this and would need "tweaks" to make it compatible with UE4.

 

[GameE]

Is it E3 yet? >_>

 

[HylianTom]

360 was always supposed to be 720p machine. They later updated it with 1080p, but rarely any game uses it.

BTW, reading Ideaman's posts it seems like I was right on track when I said WiiU aint gonna be nuclear powered as some of you suggested.

I'm going to be interested in the power consumption of the machine once we can do this kind of investigating..

Is it E3 yet? >_>

You just missed it - I'm posting from a line in front of Best Buy!

 

[bgassassin]

360 was always supposed to be 720p machine. They later updated it with 1080p, but rarely any game uses it.

BTW, reading Ideaman's posts it seems like I was right on track when I said WiiU aint gonna be nuclear powered as some of you suggested.

Uh, nobody has suggested that. What posts were you reading? (ignoring the sarcasm)

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

This thread has been pretty tame with the power speculating. I think everyone agrees it will be noticeably better than ps3/360, but will be noticeably worse than 720/ps4. In absolute simple terms that is.

 

[DarkChild]

Uh, nobody has suggested that. What posts were you reading? (ignoring the sarcasm)

There were alot of posts since 5x360 rumor came. Basically, people expected wonders, and if its like IdeaMan suggested than I believe we will see moderate improvement over current gen.

 

[bgassassin]

There were alot of posts since 5x360 rumor came. Basically, people expected wonders, and if its like IdeaMan suggested than I believe we will see moderate improvement over current gen.

Not really. I don't remember "outrageous" posts happening like that. The focus was more on the "720 GPU is 20% more powerful than Wii U GPU" part of the article.

 

[Rush2thestart]

I imagine it takes a lot of power to display the game twice (once on a controller, and once on the TV), so being able to display PS360 games like that should indicate its a powerful system. Its just not immediately apparent.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Not really. I don't remember "outrageous" posts happening like that. The focus was more on the "720 GPU is 20% more powerful than Wii U GPU" part of the article.

The whole thing was confusing.

 

[bgassassin]

The whole thing was confusing.

Yeah. Between that and the Develop article saying 2x = 5x, it was a mess back then.

 

[guek]

There were alot of posts since 5x360 rumor came. Basically, people expected wonders, and if its like IdeaMan suggested than I believe we will see moderate improvement over current gen.

Again, I think people are confusing posters being either hopeful or excited over rumors/speculation for actual expectations. Just because one gets excited at the prospect of a small power gap between Wii U and XB3 doesn't mean that's the expectation.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Yeah. Between that and the Develop article saying 2x = 5x, it was a mess back then.

Yep. What a mess.