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[axisofweevils]

Wii U Music to be launch game!


Believe!

 

[Nibel]

HylianTom

Damn, your new avatar killed me :lol
Love it

 

[HylianTom]

I'm watching Nintendo's E3 2010 presentation and I must say this is definitely getting me hyped.

Yeah.. I like going back and looking at years past. It can be fun, depressing, silly, and fascinating when looking back and knowing how things turned-out. The hints pointing at the future are there, and it's one thing that makes this time around a bit more difficult.. not even hints to be had.

As far as power goes, I'm not going to be happy or depressed until official, concrete confirmation. Things are all over the place, so it's hard to get a bead on where Nintendo really is going.

I see lots of the "But.. It's Nintendo" thought pattern internalized within its own fans. Kinda sad. Just wait before condemnation.

{wait.. what? I was the leak?}

 

[wsippel]

No... He said that the engine originally ran a bit better then xenon can run it, this is after the latest kits, it runs multiples of times better then on the previous dev kits. xenos was never brought up.

Huh? No. The current, optimized engine performs roughly the same on Wii U and 360. The initial, unoptimized Wii U port only achieved a fraction of it's current performance. This is about software optimization, not different devkit versions.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Ha, the Expansion Pak, I remember that thing around 99-00. A few games even required it, like Perfect Dark, DK64, C&C, Majora's Mask because of the visuals they were putting out. 4 whole extra MBs of RAM, would you believe! Five years later we got systems shipping out with 512 MB

 

[Nibel]

But will an "expension pack" be that important if the system comes with 1,5-2GB?

 

[cyberheater]

Ha, the Expansion Pak, I remember that thing around 99-00. A few games even required it, like Perfect Dark, DK64, C&C, Majora's Mask because of the visuals they were putting out. 4 whole extra MBs of RAM, would you believe! Five years later we got systems shipping out with 512 MB

I remember it enable some high resolution modes on some of the games. It was definitely worth it.

 

[botty]

So Wii U is "weak" again?

 

[methodman]

I remember it enable some high resolution modes on some of the games. It was definitely worth it.

You had to have it for star wars pod racer (loved this freaking game)

 

[lwilliams3]

It's just a little frustrating and sad that while the system will be leaps and bounds ahead of the PS360 in some aspects, it is still weaker/on par with 2006 hardware on other areas

One thing consistent about Nintendo after the N64 is its focus on balancing the specs of each component in their hardware. The limitation for the 360, for example, was most likely the GPU and the RAM before the CPU. Actually, even today, I don't believe alot of game engines properly utilize all 6 threads of the 360, and having a DSP saves the CPU from using a thread for fx/music. Due to the system needing to be able to render separate displays on the controllers, don't be surprise to see that the GPU is a bit beefy compared to the CPU.

 

[ozfunghi]

He said his not going to use the extra power, that its just a straight port.

No

 

[axisofweevils]

So Wii U is "weak" again?

No, it's the Wii U, not the Wii K.

Spoiler

Sorry.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Trying to remain positive. Trying to remain positive. Trying to remain positive.

Spoiler

reallly trying

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Is Wii U's IBM CPU likely to have 4 threads per core?

With 3 cores, that'd be 12 threads, double that of XB360.

With 4 cores....

 

[GameplayWhore]

Is Wii U's IBM CPU likely to have 4 threads per core?

With 3 cores, that'd be 12 threads, double that of XB360.

With 4 cores....

I thought that the rumour mill was rather solid on it having three cores (I don't have an answer to your initial question).

edit: But you probably already know that the POWER7 does 4 threads per core. Either way, a 2x speedup would still be considered within the realm of "on par", I'd imagine.
edit2: Why does wikipedia list "Wii U CPU" under that entry? I thought it was stated that it was a Power Architecture chip, not specifically POWER7.

 

[Nibel]

No, it's the Wii U, not the Wii K.

Spoiler

Sorry.

 

[lednerg]

Imagine if developers had no hardware limitations whatsoever to deal with. Would games all the sudden become indistinguishable from real life? Of course not. That would take budgets well beyond what Hollywood blockbusters require. Remember, we're talking about games that are typically longer than a couple hours. Equating more hardware power to Avatar is like equating a hotter oven to better food. People still have to put the ingredients in there.

Spoiler

(Avatar sucked, but you know what I'm saying)

 

[Linkhero1]

Yeah.. I like going back and looking at years past. It can be fun, depressing, silly, and fascinating when looking back and knowing how things turned-out. The hints pointing at the future are there, and it's one thing that makes this time around a bit more difficult.. not even hints to be had.

As far as power goes, I'm not going to be happy or depressed until official, concrete confirmation. Things are all over the place, so it's hard to get a bead on where Nintendo really is going.

I see lots of the "But.. It's Nintendo" thought pattern internalized within its own fans. Kinda sad. Just wait before condemnation.

I'm just hyped because of all the software they're going to announce. I have a feeling I'm going to be disappointed about the Wii U's power, but if it ends up getting decent third party support and not left out like the Wii then I'd be fine with that.

 

[udivision]

Trying to remain positive. Trying to remain positive. Trying to remain positive.

Spoiler

reallly trying

Why bother. Except reality.
You're going to play Nintendo games in HD, and you're going to hate every minute of it.

 

[lwilliams3]

Is Wii U's IBM CPU likely to have 4 threads per core?

With 3 cores, that'd be 12 threads, double that of XB360.

With 4 cores....

Well, the more reliable rumors/leak about the CPU about the cores is likely lherre, bgassassin, arkam, and now wsippel. lherre stated that there are 3 cores and two threads, like the 360's, but with asymmetrical amount of L2 Cache per core. I believe bgassassin stated that it was 3MB of L2 cache total. Arkam mentioned that the cores are OOE, so that by itself will make it a different design than Xenon.

Going by Arkam and wsippel's statements, the CPU should be more efficient than Xenon but is probably clocked lower.

 

[Nilaul]

Imagine if developers had no hardware limitations whatsoever to deal with. Would games all the sudden become indistinguishable from real life? Of course not. That would take budgets well beyond what Hollywood blockbusters require. Remember, we're talking about games that are typically longer than a couple hours. Equating more hardware power to Avatar is like equating a hotter oven to better food. People still have to put the ingredients in there.

Spoiler

(Avatar sucked, but you know what I'm saying)

Not really... better tools... automated modeling.. etc. Mass assets for all developers to use etc. Would come in future.

And is some cases like buildings, its just the case of applying better lightning, modifying textures settings and adding tes.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Well, the more reliable rumors/leak about the CPU about the cores is likely lherre, bgassassin, arkam, and now wsippel. lherre stated that there are 3 cores and two threads, like the 360's, but with asymmetrical amount of L2 Cache per core. I believe bgassassin stated that it was 3MB of L2 cache total. Arkam mentioned that the cores are OOE, so that by itself will make it a different design than Xenon.

Going by Arkam and wsippel's statements, the CPU should be more efficient than Xenon but is probably clocked lower.

Ah thank you so much for those answers.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

I feel that non-gaming apps like YouTube and web browsing are going to be very important for Wii U, I just have a feeling. The possibilities with HD visuals and the small screen are endless.

 

[HylianTom]

I feel that non-gaming apps like YouTube and web browsing are going to be very important for Wii U, I just have a feeling. The possibilities with HD visuals and the small screen are endless.

Truth be told, if non-gamers see that the uPad can be used for an internet browsing experience that can be comparable to the iPad, and then they see that some games can be pulled off of the TV onto just the pad, I can see this thing catching fire among gift-giving shoppers, among parents, and among those who are always maneuvering for TV access.

Watching TV while surfing the web has become something of a national pasttime, and I think Nintendo is going to emphasize how much their new device fits this behavioural pattern quite nicely.

But Nintendo has to absolutely nail the web experience. The Wii's and DS' browsing experiences, from my view, are a bit too clunky to compete.

 

[lednerg]

Not really... better tools... automated modeling.. etc. Mass assets for all developers to use etc. Would come in future.

And is some cases like buildings, its just the case of applying better lightning, modifying textures settings and adding tes.

It's going to take a shitload of work to match what a lot of gaffer's expectations seem to be (Samaritan). My point was people still have to design and make these games and everything in them. Samaritan was more than just higher texture resolutions. It was additional textures layered on top of each other to achieve the effects. The models aren't just being tessellated to become more detailed, those details have to be put in there manually. None of this stuff is for free.

 

[guek]

Nintendo needs ads that emphasize the non gaming applications of the device.

I think Wii U is going to need a massive marketing push. I mean kinect-level of spending. Spend half a billion dollars on marketing this shit. It needs to be everywhere.

 

[bgassassin]

Well, I'm not ruling out 2, and no, I'm more than happy here in the land of the fairies where life is beautiful thanks.

What's it like living in Hyrule?

I think he's trying to say its either 1 or 8GB

That means the amount is obviously 11GB.

So Wii U is "weak" again?

I see it like this. As it stands the info we have gotten whether positive of negative has pretty much said the same thing. As a consumer if you are on the negative side, I don't see much changing you from that. If you are on the positive side, I don't see much changing you from that.

 

[cyberheater]

No, it's the Wii U, not the Wii K.

Spoiler

Sorry.

Amazing.

 

[guek]

It's going to take a shitload of work to match what a lot of gaffer's expectations seem to be (Samaritan).

GAF is functionally retarded and incredibly depressing to read. It's solipism at its worst.

Some days I almost feel like the GAF demographic deserves to have iOS rise up and swallow it whole.

 

[HylianTom]

As a consumer if you are on the negative side, I don't see much changing you from that. If you are on the positive side, I don't see much changing you from that.

And as far as NeoGAF posters go: if you like Nintendo, it'll end-up being fine enough and any flaws will be overlooked once new first-party titles are shown. If you have misgivings about Nintendo, they won't be alleviated and the head-shaking will continue. If you hate Nintendo, you'll have new excuses for bashing them. I foresee no real change there.

I think Wii U is going to need a massive marketing push. I mean kinect-level of spending. Spend half a billion dollars on marketing this shit. It needs to be everywhere.

I specifically remember the 3DS push - Nintendo put 5000 demo units out before the launch here in North America. (yes, I remember that number specifically)

I'd like to see them at least double that with Wii U demo stations, although I worry about unit/controller thefts. Wal-Marts, Targets, Best Buys, mall kiosks, department stores, etc etc - like you say: everywhere!

GAF is functionally retarded and incredibly depressing to read. It's solipism at its worst.

Some days I almost feel like the GAF demographic deserves to have iOS rise up and swallow it whole.

So.. I'm not the only one who gets a twisted sense of glee when a once-graphics-tunnelvisioned studio shifts focus to iPhone and Facebook games? Truly, there are times when idiotic desire for the unsustainable has me wondering about a redo of 1983. This town needs an enema?!

 

[cyberheater]

Did Arkam ever post in this thread? I'm trying to find quotes on what he said about the power of the GPU?

 

[lednerg]

Did Arkam ever post in this thread? I'm trying to find quotes on what he said about the power of the GPU?

He said it sucks and that we should just forget Nintendo and that everybody will buy a PS4 because of power. I can't find the link because I'm too busy eating crow. Fuck my life.

EDIT:

GAF is functionally retarded and incredibly depressing to read. It's solipism at its worst.

Some days I almost feel like the GAF demographic deserves to have iOS rise up and swallow it whole.

Yeah, it's at the point where I don't even want them to buy a Wii U to enjoy Nintendo games, lol. Let them think Nintendo doesn't know what fun is. It's no big deal to me.

 

[herzogzwei1989]

Truth be told, if non-gamers see that the uPad can be used for an internet browsing experience that can be comparable to the iPad, and then they see that some games can be pulled off of the TV onto just the pad, I can see this thing catching fire among gift-giving shoppers, among parents, and among those who are always maneuvering for TV access.

Watching TV while surfing the web has become something of a national pasttime, and I think Nintendo is going to emphasize how much their new device fits this behavioural pattern quite nicely.

But Nintendo has to absolutely nail the web experience. The Wii's and DS' browsing experiences, from my view, are a bit too clunky to compete.

I agree with your post 1000%

Nintendo REALLY needs to get the web browsing experience right, this time.

YouTube worked well on Wii, but not Netflix, it loaded so slowly, maybe it was my WiFi but I don't think so, I had a pretty-decent 10 mbps connection.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Did Arkam ever post in this thread? I'm trying to find quotes on what he said about the power of the GPU?

I swear he did, but search says otherwise:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=500961

Edit: Search Lies

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36321117&postcount=8683

 

[guek]

Did Arkam ever post in this thread? I'm trying to find quotes on what he said about the power of the GPU?

He did. He just repeated the same song and dance he did last time - some things are better than 360, some things are worse, porting requires concessions, reinforced the fact that he doesn't have a lot of technical knowledge, and explained he's no longer working with the dev kit in any way but would have heard of any major changes if they had occurred recently.

I still find what he has to say somewhat suspect, but I imagine it's due to his lack of technical knowledge and the fact that he can't disclose any real specifics. The math still doesn't really doesn't add up to his story with the vague information he's giving.

 

[cyberheater]

I swear he did, but search says otherwise:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/search.php?searchid=500961

Edit: Search Lies

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36321117&postcount=8683

I found this quote.

It will have some factors that are superior like Memory amount(though bus speeds are slow) but other things (GPU) are slightly less than what we have come to expect from the current gen systems. I am sure if a game a is built from the ground up on the console it will look nice, but porting anything from the HD twins over will take a hit.

 

[cyberheater]

He did. He just repeated the same song and dance he did last time - some things are better than 360, some things are worse, porting requires concessions, reinforced the fact that he doesn't have a lot of technical knowledge, and explained he's no longer working with the dev kit in any way but would have heard of any major changes if they had occurred recently.

So I guess we are forced to wait until something else leaks or at least a strong hint.

 

[guek]

DCharlie also mentioned in another thread that he heard a rumor that nintendo is going to target a $200 base model, $120 controller, and $300 bundle.

He didn't mention where he'd heard it, but it really wouldn't make sense. No way the controller costs that much, and they would never sell the console without it.

If Arkam's estimation of the system is true though, I'd be incredibly shocked if the console+controller costs more than $250 at launch.

 

[AzaK]

So Wii U is "weak" again?

Didn't you know, Keplar level graphics are in the next XBox and PlayStation.

PINGU, PINGU!

I feel that non-gaming apps like YouTube and web browsing are going to be very important for Wii U, I just have a feeling. The possibilities with HD visuals and the small screen are endless.

Truth be told, if non-gamers see that the uPad can be used for an internet browsing experience that can be comparable to the iPad, and then they see that some games can be pulled off of the TV onto just the pad, I can see this thing catching fire among gift-giving shoppers, among parents, and among those who are always maneuvering for TV access.

Watching TV while surfing the web has become something of a national pasttime, and I think Nintendo is going to emphasize how much their new device fits this behavioural pattern quite nicely.

But Nintendo has to absolutely nail the web experience. The Wii's and DS' browsing experiences, from my view, are a bit too clunky to compete.

I agree. Non gaming apps is where this thing can transcend gaming and become the go to device in the home. The only hurdle I see is that I feel Nintendo often move very slowly and don't fully realise the potential of the devices they make. They need an App Store (I don't care if it's invite only) where they can have lots of utility apps like browsers, media players, facebook apps and all that crap that people use a lot these days.

What's it like living in Hyrule?

The Global Illumination is sublime.


Another random musing. I think Nintendo need to make sure that switching to a Subscreen only game/app can happen without engaging the TV screen at all. A user needs to be able to turn on the Wii U, fire up a game, and start playing on the Subscreen without the TV having to be switched to the Wii U input. It would be very annoying having to change input on the TV while someone's watching it, just so I can fire up a game. This is one of the little things that often gets overlooked in initial releases of firmware.

Maybe a start screen like the Wii has but with another option for "Start On Subscreen" or something.

 

[guek]

The thing is, if Arkam is right, this whole 1+ year rumor cycle is going to look even more ridiculous. It would mean a ton of reported values were completely off.

an rv770 - one of the very first rumors out there - in the early dev kits would have to have been false

over 1GB of ram? Forget about it. Probably more like 768mb

"lots" of EDRAM? Hah!

Using power7 and watson to hype up the CPU will have been a complete joke

 

[antonz]

I would simply say there is deliberate disinformation going on from sources. Thats the simplest and most likely answer.

The information from all sides is just far too contrdictory and regardless of people trying to spin it as well this doesnt really disqualify that etc one side is spewing pure bullshit it really is that simple.

I am not going to say which side that is but its obvious one side is.

 

[Nibel]

The thing is, if Arkam is right, this whole 1+ year rumor cycle is going to look even more ridiculous. It would mean a ton of reported values were completely off.

an rv770 - one of the very first rumors out there - in the early dev kits would have to have been false

over 1GB of ram? Forget about it. Probably more like 768mb

"lots" of EDRAM? Hah!

Using power7 and watson to hype up the CPU will have been a complete joke

Wii U Speculation Thread 4: No Thread For Old Rumors

This insider talk between all known sources sure makes me dizzy.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I would simply say there is deliberate disinformation going on from sources. Thats the simplest and most likely answer.

The information from all sides is just far too contrdictory and regardless of people trying to spin it as well this doesnt really disqualify that etc one side is spewing pure bullshit it really is that simple.

I am not going to say which side that is but its obvious one side is.

or more likely, everyone has their own view of what's going on (depending on their development goals), but really no one knows the exact details except developers that won't talk or nintendo.

 

[AceBandage]

The thing is, if Arkam is right, this whole 1+ year rumor cycle is going to look even more ridiculous. It would mean a ton of reported values were completely off.

an rv770 - one of the very first rumors out there - in the early dev kits would have to have been false

over 1GB of ram? Forget about it. Probably more like 768mb

"lots" of EDRAM? Hah!

Using power7 and watson to hype up the CPU will have been a complete joke

But that's only if we only believe Arkam. If we believe lherre (who, by the way, actually works on the dev kits) has already stated that Nintendo is pushing for the barest minimum of 1GB of RAM, with a good possibility of putting in more for the retail units (based on how much the dev kits have).
We also know that Nintendo and AMD have been developing this GPU for years, probably up until after E3, even. So it's not going to have a 2005 feature set, and will probably be far more efficient and more powerful.
We also know that the CPU is OOE, which means that it's far more efficient than the 360's, even if the clock speed is about the same.
And it was IBM's own admission that they were adding a lot of eDRAM (though, how it functions in the actual unit is unknown.)

These are all facts, stated by people that have worked on the device. So even at a bare minimum, it's more powerful, and by quite a bit.
It was never, ever, going to stack up to the Durango/PS4, simply because of timing and cost, but it's not going to just be a 360, or really even close.

 

[guek]

I would simply say there is deliberate disinformation going on from sources. Thats the simplest and most likely answer.

The information from all sides is just far too contrdictory and regardless of people trying to spin it as well this doesnt really disqualify that etc one side is spewing pure bullshit it really is that simple.

I am not going to say which side that is but its obvious one side is.

Do you actually know?

 

[cyberheater]

But that's only if we only believe Arkam. If we believe lherre (who, by the way, actually works on the dev kits) has already stated that Nintendo is pushing for the barest minimum of 1GB of RAM, with a good possibility of putting in more for the retail units (based on how much the dev kits have).
We also know that Nintendo and AMD have been developing this GPU for years, probably up until after E3, even. So it's not going to have a 2005 feature set, and will probably be far more efficient and more powerful.
We also know that the CPU is OOE, which means that it's far more efficient than the 360's, even if the clock speed is about the same.
And it was IBM's own admission that they were adding a lot of eDRAM (though, how it functions in the actual unit is unknown.)

These are all facts, stated by people that have worked on the device. So even at a bare minimum, it's more powerful, and by quite a bit.
It was never, ever, going to stack up to the Durango/PS4, simply because of timing and cost, but it's not going to just be a 360, or really even close.

Hasn't someone in this thread already found out that the CPU on on par with the 360 CPU?

 

[AceBandage]

Hasn't someone in this thread already found out that the CPU on on par with the 360 CPU?

On par as far as clock speed, like I said.
But the simple fact that it's Out of Order is already an increase in performance, plus the fact that it's likely more efficient.

 

[guek]

On par as far as clock speed, like I said.
But the simple fact that it's Out of Order is already an increase in performance, plus the fact that it's likely more efficient.

no, wsippel is talking about actual performance by some middleware with the wii u having a slight edge.

perhaps that slight edge will get larger with further optimization *shrugs*

 

[herzogzwei1989]

But that's only if we only believe Arkam. If we believe lherre (who, by the way, actually works on the dev kits) has already stated that Nintendo is pushing for the barest minimum of 1GB of RAM, with a good possibility of putting in more for the retail units (based on how much the dev kits have).
We also know that Nintendo and AMD have been developing this GPU for years, probably up until after E3, even. So it's not going to have a 2005 feature set, and will probably be far more efficient and more powerful.
We also know that the CPU is OOE, which means that it's far more efficient than the 360's, even if the clock speed is about the same.
And it was IBM's own admission that they were adding a lot of eDRAM (though, how it functions in the actual unit is unknown.)

These are all facts, stated by people that have worked on the device. So even at a bare minimum, it's more powerful, and by quite a bit.
It was never, ever, going to stack up to the Durango/PS4, simply because of timing and cost, but it's not going to just be a 360, or really even close.

God, I hope you're right AceBandage! ^_^

 

[cyberheater]

no, wsippel is talking about actual performance by some middleware with the wii u having a slight edge.

perhaps that slight edge will get larger with further optimization *shrugs*

That's it.