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[Box of Bunnies]

Perfect. Just perfect. This is going to be wonderful.

Costs simply cannot follow the same trend that they did this gen. They can't. Wont. I was more afraid of MS/Sony making a moderately respectable jump that definitively outperforms wii u while allowing pricing to fall within a $100 range. But vastly outperforms? As in some sort of 8GB hex-core console born straight outta hell and the size of an ottoman? With even longer dev times, higher dev costs, smaller installed bases...

what are they going to do, raise game prices to $70? $80?

this next gen...dis gun b gud

Either devs are gonna be smart and realise that this is unsustainable, or we're going to see even more casualties and consumer blaming than this gen. I can see this actually working against Microsoft if the majority of developers and publishers aren't entirely suicidal otherwise, well, gaming had a nice run.

Either way, I can definitely see an even more increased focus on handheld systems in Japan if this is the case.

 

[AzaK]

I'd also like to add that I don't think machines that are so much more gruntier than current gen would necessarily mean bigger budgets. Models are made at insanely high resolutions anyway and reduced for the platform. Resolutions are the same so textures can be the same.

Does a top end PC game take significantly more cash to develop than a top end console game? I don't know but I'd hazard a guess it wouldn't really.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Hmmm, interesting. I guess I shouldn't be shocked MS let themselves get trolled like that. So long to the gaming middle class. Nothing but indie devs and big-budget devs in our gaming future.

That business model has worked out GREAT for the comic book industry, let me tell you. Those rising prices and Feast-vs-Famine sales have been a great boon for companies and consumers alike!

There may be a strong sense of sarcasm in my above statements!

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

So is Alberto actually a legit source or what? I thought he was just a random GAF poster.

 

[AniHawk]

I thought he was just a random GAF poster.

he is. we're all just messing with you.

 

[guek]

So is Alberto actually a legit source or what? I thought he was just a random GAF poster.

Guy used to work as a legit gaming journalist and retained many of his contacts when he left that line of work (iirc)

 

[Varjet]

So is Alberto actually a legit source or what? I thought he was just a random GAF poster.

Every Gaf poster is a legit source. Duh.

 

[Hero of Legend]

Treasure is like...20-30 employees top. How do they even compete when the standard for retail games gets higher and higher every year? All they've done since 2009 is ports/remakes of old games, when they used to be able to do a new game every year.

How did S&P2 do? Maybe we'll see S&P3 on Wii U, or maybe a new IP, that'd be neat. I am actually surprised we got S&P2 in the first place, luckily the original was on the VC, that was surely the reason.

But yeah, it's just been XBLA remakes/ports of their older catalog recently. Wonder if it would've been cheap for them to attempt say a port of Ikaruga GC to Wii? A full HD Wii U retail port, or hell, better a Wii U retail collection of their XBLA games should be possible. Maybe the tablet can be used vertically for vertical screen shmup action. But the button layout...

Maybe if you put the screen on a table or stand, and play with the Wiimote sideways, OR, play with the face buttons facing you.

 

[HylianTom]

Either devs are gonna be smart and realise that this is unsustainable, or we're going to see even more casualties and consumer blaming than this gen. I can see this actually working against Microsoft if the majority of developers and publishers aren't entirely suicidal otherwise, well, gaming had a nice run.

Either way, I can definitely see an even more increased focus on handheld systems in Japan if this is the case.

I'd love to see a scenario where at least Japanese developers say "enough" and go with the more modest console. But the other Pied Piper will probably join MS in this path, which may prove too tempting.

But Nintendo should still offer them an easier step up into HD development.

 

[Gaborn]

Without completely overreacting, if his info is correct, the whole Wii U repeating the same mistakes as the Wii theory is a lot more plausible.

If that info is correct Wii U would not be the system making mistakes.

 

[schuelma]

If that info is correct Wii U would not be the system making mistakes.

Maybe, maybe not. I do think it means another Nintendo gets ignored by 3rd parties scenario more plausible.

 

[Christine]

I'd also like to add that I don't think machines that are so much more gruntier than current gen would necessarily mean bigger budgets.

Not in and of itself. But the hypothesis under discussion is that EA and ActiVision want new hardware to enable pushing production budgets even higher. The hardware alone wouldn't necessitate spending more money than you did on your high-end 360/PS3 projects, but you'd be outclassed by "AAAA" software unless you increased your own budget as well.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

If that info is correct Wii U would not be the system making mistakes.

 

[bgassassin]

Maybe, maybe not. I do think it means another Nintendo gets ignored by 3rd parties scenario more plausible.

Wii's issue though was more about architecture difference than power difference though the latter did play a role.

 

[schuelma]

Wii's issue though was more about architecture difference than power difference though the latter did play a role.

Yeah, and I do not claim to be a tech guy or anything like that, so I tried to only say its a possibility.

 

[Gaborn]

Maybe, maybe not. I do think it means another Nintendo gets ignored by 3rd parties scenario more plausible.

Possibly, but this generation Nintendo made a pretty good case that most third parties (with a few obvious exceptions) need Nintendo more than Nintendo needs them. I mean, does MS really want to deal with long tail sales again? The ONLY reason this generation is as close as it is for MS is MS had a year head start this time in sales.

I could see third parties going to Nintendo and maybe giving MS some scraps later when the userbase is there.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Possibly, but this generation Nintendo made a pretty good case that most third parties (with a few obvious exceptions) need Nintendo more than Nintendo needs them. I mean, does MS really want to deal with long tail sales again? The ONLY reason this generation is as close as it is for MS is MS had a year head start this time in sales.

and because sony went crazy with the whole bluray thing

but yeah if there is anything we learned, it's that every generation is a completely new ball game.

 

[stupidvillager]

Guy used to work as a legit gaming journalist and retained many of his contacts when he left that line of work (iirc)

Sounds alot like Ideaman

 

[Glorified G]

Sounds alot like Ideaman

Maybe they're the same person?
mnightshyamalan.jpeg

 

[TwilightPrincess]

Hmmm, interesting. I guess I shouldn't be shocked MS let themselves get trolled like that. So long to the gaming middle class. Nothing but indie devs and big-budget devs in our gaming future.

They should make 3DS and WiiU games then It is their own fault if everyone goes AAAA. If it is true and Sony follows this trap, it could be their last console. Damn, they already need 500 years to finish a triple A Game

 

[guek]

Sounds alot like Ideaman

nah, I think SA has been a gaf staple for awhile now.

 

[Gaborn]

and because sony went crazy with the whole bluray thing

but yeah if there is anything we learned, it's that every generation is a completely new ball game.

I wouldn't say COMPLETELY new. This is looking a lot like the PS2 generation to me. The Wii U will probably be "underpowered" compared to the competitors but that means NOTHING if it's the lead platform for ports like the PS2 was. Considering the head start Nintendo has building it's userbase and their success last time around, PLUS the fact the architecture should at least be similar enough across the board to make ports relatively cheap and feasible... I'd be kind of surprised if it ISN'T the lead platform for most games.

 

[Anth0ny]

So it's going to be current gen all over again, from the sounds of it.

Hmm.

 

[bgassassin]

They should make 3DS and WiiU games then It is their own fault if everyone goes AAAA. If it is true and Sony follows this trap, it could be their last console. Damn, they already need 500 years to finish a triple A Game

This IMO is the ideal scenario that squeezes MS out if Sony followed suit. I give the nod to Sony if they are on even playing field with MS.

 

[Plinko]

So, we're just headed for a repeat of the current generation all over again.

MS and Sony put out similar systems. MS focuses on Kinect (albeit more advanced this time). Nintendo puts out another system with a new way to play with lower power.

This time, I don't think Nintendo "wins" the sales battle. My guess is that MS ships with a tablet controller as well.

Again, I still believe this puts Nintendo in between a rock and a hard place with 3rd parties and forces them to team with Apple on a new console next time around.

Edit: Anth0ny beat me by a minute.

 

[stupidvillager]

nah, I think SA has been a gaf staple for awhile now.

I'm sure he (SA) is, I'm just saying sounds like similar backgrounds.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

I don't really give anyone any reason to believe me, but stuff I have said has come true before, so it's up to you what you want to believe!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I wouldn't say COMPLETELY new. This is looking a lot like the PS2 generation to me. The Wii U will probably be "underpowered" compared to the competitors but that means NOTHING if it's the lead platform for ports like the PS2 was. Considering the head start Nintendo has building it's userbase and their success last time around, PLUS the fact the architecture should at least be similar enough across the board to make ports relatively cheap and feasible... I'd be kind of surprised if it ISN'T the lead platform for most games.

could be right

So it's going to be current gen all over again, from the sounds of it.

Hmm.

or like gaborn says, could be like last gen (except with places changed)

 

[guek]

I wouldn't say COMPLETELY new. This is looking a lot like the PS2 generation to me. The Wii U will probably be "underpowered" compared to the competitors but that means NOTHING if it's the lead platform for ports like the PS2 was. Considering the head start Nintendo has building it's userbase and their success last time around, PLUS the fact the architecture should at least be similar enough across the board to make ports relatively cheap and feasible... I'd be kind of surprised if it ISN'T the lead platform for most games.

It all comes down to the Wii U's first year and if it can it establish itself as a console that sells 3rd party software.

So, we're just headed for a repeat of the current generation all over again.

MS and Sony put out similar systems. MS focuses on Kinect (albeit more advanced this time). Nintendo puts out another system with a new way to play with lower power.

This time, I don't think Nintendo "wins" the sales battle. My guess is that MS ships with a tablet controller as well.

Again, I still believe this puts Nintendo in between a rock and a hard place with 3rd parties and forces them to team with Apple on a new console next time around.

Edit: Anth0ny beat me by a minute.

no offense, but it sounds like you're writing console wars fan fiction

 

[Plinko]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

 

[Glorified G]

I wouldn't say COMPLETELY new. This is looking a lot like the PS2 generation to me. The Wii U will probably be "underpowered" compared to the competitors but that means NOTHING if it's the lead platform for ports like the PS2 was. Considering the head start Nintendo has building it's userbase and their success last time around, PLUS the fact the architecture should at least be similar enough across the board to make ports relatively cheap and feasible... I'd be kind of surprised if it ISN'T the lead platform for most games.

That was a completely different time. ms didn't establish a userbase yet, & because of the n64, Nintendo's relationship with 3rd parties were at an all time low. None of this applies with sony & ms today.

 

[Gaborn]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

Sony had the fantastic relationship because of sales success. Now that Nintendo proved they could move hardware it just takes a bit of reaching out (which Nintendo has been doing) and I think we've already started to see the software moving Nintendo's way with Monster Hunter being the big announcement so far... but do you really think Nintendo has shot their quiver with that? I expect many more big announcements for Wii U at E3.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

And one of the big reasons Nintendo was able to come back in the 16-bit console wars(despite the Genesis having a head start, cheaper prices, larger library of games, etc) was because of the excellent relationship they had with a lot of third party companies. Capcom, Konami, Squaresoft, Tecmo; all those guys came to them first.

Like guek said, it all comes down to Nintendo being able to get those third parties back in their favor.

 

[stupidvillager]

I don't really give anyone any reason to believe me, but stuff I have said has come true before, so it's up to you what you want to believe!

Its not that I do or dont believe you or Ideaman or anyone else for that matter. Arkam...thats a little different. I tend to take what anyone says the same way at this point. Nuetral

 

[lwilliams3]

I wouldn't say COMPLETELY new. This is looking a lot like the PS2 generation to me. The Wii U will probably be "underpowered" compared to the competitors but that means NOTHING if it's the lead platform for ports like the PS2 was. Considering the head start Nintendo has building it's userbase and their success last time around, PLUS the fact the architecture should at least be similar enough across the board to make ports relatively cheap and feasible... I'd be kind of surprised if it ISN'T the lead platform for most games.

Like the PS2 era, developers did find it easier to develop for the ps2 first then port up. If the wii u has a good first year, it can possibly happen this time.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

wasn't relationship as much as it was being first place by far

like guek said, the first year will determine everything. It's all up to nintendo.

 

[LOCK]

I don't care how much they max out their next consoles, I'm not buying one over $400 dollars. That probably will last till they make a revision of some kind anyway.

I will buy a Wii U for Nintendo games, and any third party games that are better than their PS3/360 counterparts will be an added bonus. I would love to see a high profile series started with Nintendo's system though. I do feel that the Japanese, especially smaller devs, are going to flock to Nintendo's new system, so I won't have to worry about my favorite games not being on the platform.

 

[Christine]

So, we're just headed for a repeat of the current generation all over again.

MS and Sony put out similar systems. MS focuses on Kinect (albeit more advanced this time). Nintendo puts out another system with a new way to play with lower power.

This time, I don't think Nintendo "wins" the sales battle. My guess is that MS ships with a tablet controller as well.

Again, I still believe this puts Nintendo in between a rock and a hard place with 3rd parties and forces them to team with Apple on a new console next time around.

Edit: Anth0ny beat me by a minute.

Somehow I'm just not seeing Microsoft incorporating a tablet controller on top of a costly box that already has logistic and cost challenges from bundling/accessorizing Kinect.

 

[AniHawk]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

not all of them. the ps2 was hard to develop for, and the system was the obvious choice because it was obviously going to continue the psx's success.

the same thing happened with the ps3 coming off the ps2 (hard to develop for but hey, it's going to be a megasuccess like the ps2 so let's do it). when the ps3 didn't take off, the 360 was there so companies could still make money off software.

exclusives were made multiplats so they could make money off the extra revenue stream.

with the upcoming generation, there's no such obvious winner from the current gen like the ps2 and psx were. it looks like the big boys are pretty satisfied with continuing the twin console future though.

 

[nordique]

edit: read the posts; were not showing up for some reason.



Still very interesting. I hope the SD card rumors are not true; I would love the system to be backwards compatible with the 360


as long as the UE4 is salable to the Wii U, things should be OK for the Wii U on a third party level.


I'm not one to start rumor mongering, but just because this thread might get crazy flat, there is a poster on the NWR speculation thread who claims from an inside source that he heard UE4 will run on the Wii U. Now, obviously we don't know who his source is, but he seems to be betting his entire posting status on it (as in he will stop posting should that info turn out to be false) and furthermore he doesn't seem to be a random poster or someone "new"; he seems to have a posting history and a solid reputation with that site.

I can only say I've briefly met a few of the NWR staff at an E3 once, and if they are OK with letting that poster pass that information, then I am privy to believe it as well; they were solid folk

but again, I think we should temper expectations. I am not going to certainly assume Wii U will be home to the UE4 just yet (or any next gen console) short of anything official.

 

[Gaborn]

That was a completely different time. ms didn't establish a userbase yet, & because of the n64, Nintendo's relationship with 3rd parties were at an all time low. None of this applies with sony & ms today.

The reason 3rd party relations were at a low after N64 is the costs of developing with a cartridge and Nintendo being hurt by companies (Square in particular) fleeing the system in favor of the cheaper to develop for Playstation. There's no question the Wii was the cheapest system to develop for this generation, the problem was the architecture was so out of date it wasn't competitive. This generation the architecture will be modern which is really all that matters ultimately because that means porting is much easier. Neither Sony or MS deserve to be the lead platform next gen as much as Nintendo does.

 

[axisofweevils]

They asked publishers and developers what they need in a next-gen system

EA, Activision, DICE, and Epic all insisted on raising the ceiling by what we would traditionally consider a generational leap.

Microsoft listened because they were told this would increase game sales and hardware adoption.

In other words RROD II - the revenge.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

In other words RROD II - the revenge.

The story of the RROD is weird.

I forget all the details, but IIRC, Microsoft had to change something at the last second to sell the system in Europe and they didn't realize the heating problems it caused.

 

[bigtroyjon]

The reason 3rd party relations were at a low after N64 is the costs of developing with a cartridge and Nintendo being hurt by companies (Square in particular) fleeing the system in favor of the cheaper to develop for Playstation. There's no question the Wii was the cheapest system to develop for this generation, the problem was the architecture was so out of date it wasn't competitive. This generation the architecture will be modern which is really all that matters ultimately because that means porting is much easier. Neither Sony or MS deserve to be the lead platform next gen as much as Nintendo does.

So Microsoft is building a high powered console because of input from 3rd parties and you think those third parties aren't going to focus on that console?

"Hey Microsoft, spend billions of dollars building this high tech console so we can up port WiiU stuff. Thanks"

What would be the point of them all wanting that power if they aren't going to use it and build games based around the specs they are convincing Microsoft to incorporate?

 

[Box of Bunnies]

I'm not getting the PS2 comparison. Sony had a fantastic relationship with 3rd parties, no? Nintendo doesn't.

Maybe not with western ones, but they've made a lot of inroads with some of the bigger Japanese ones like Capcom and Square-Enix. They've done a lot for the DraQue brand in the west and we've already seen that the future of MonHun is with Nintendo.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

The story of the RROD is weird.

I forget all the details, but IIRC, Microsoft had to change something at the last second to sell the system in Europe and they didn't realize the heating problems it caused.

"whoops"

 

[Sammy Samusu]

So it's going to be current gen all over again, from the sounds of it.

Hmm.

Very unfortunate if true, but also expected.

Wii did really well for Nintendo, and they are after money, pleasing NeoGAF members is not a priority.

I'll keep a copy of Animal Crossing HD very close to my heart though.

 

[DrWong]

Nnng... Have to sleep. With this new twist tomorow will be a big "catch up day"...

 

[bgassassin]

The story of the RROD is weird.

I forget all the details, but IIRC, Microsoft had to change something at the last second to sell the system in Europe and they didn't realize the heating problems it caused.

That sounds about right, though I think it was that the changes couldn't handle the heat instead of causing it.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

That sounds about right, though I think it was that the changes couldn't handle the heat instead of causing it.

nope you're both actually wrong. Why else would the 3 red lights even exist if MS didn't know about the problem beforehand. It was all a charade and everyone fell for it hook line and sinker.

think about it for a second.