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Will discussion of certain games be banned on Neogaf from here on out?

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The ESRB members do not play these games. It is up to those seeking a rating to submit material to be viewed as a basis for the rating. So sometimes things make it past them because they were not shown to them.

I'm not saying that's what happened here, but it is an explanation for how certain things slip by the ESRB.

I know they don't play the games themselves, they get sent footage of the most questionable content in a game and give a rating that reflects what they seen.

14f2c7d99e.png


As far as I can tell (and I'm not willing to head to the official site to find out), the game is currently unrated.



The San Andreas thing was a big deal because the content was not supposed to be accessible even if it was on the disc, which is why had it not been found the game's M rating would have stood.

It would be the most hilarious thing if NISA doesn't get the game rated in end, but it will most likely happen.
 

prwxv3

Member
I saw a documentary about sex life in Japan, it really is different.

For example, you can buy used student underwears on a street's corner shack like a magazine. :lol

That was toward RE5 being called a ethnic cleansing game .
 

Settin

Member
You should probably fix your motto to:

"I will defend your right to say it, as long as it's morally ambiguous."

Ok, whatever...

Hint: It's not ambiguous at all, it's readily apparent that it's morally repugnant.
/facepalm
The moral ambiguity of the game is the entire point of this thread.
Edit: OK let's stop. We're not going to agree and it only shits up the thread.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
*Searching for a random google pic.*

Here's...uhmm...Naruwaga!

AishiteruzeBaby17.jpg


She looks young, doesn't she? Fear not, she's from an ancient race of alien and she actually have 700 years old at this point.

Ironically, it's exactly the point in this race's lifetime where they reach their reproductive phase. So she's waiting for you to rub tons of shit on her and spank her with it as well.

It's okay guys, she's 700.
She's from Ai'shiteruze Baby so I don't know what point you are trying to make.
 
Yes. I would much rather those people have an outlet for their desires that doesn't involve an actual child. The only thing material like this does is offend sensibilities.

An argument can be made that such material can normalize the acts portrayed to the individual, but most of us have sexual interests. And most are benign. Some aren't. Some are at their core harmful. But we also know what happens when repression is the only solution.

I don't think the answer is to make every outlet illegal. I'd rather they sate their desires on fictional characters that don't actually exist rather than focus their attentions on real children. Same for those sexually aroused by depictions of rape or bestiality.

It's a really long argument is the point. One that I don't have any clear cut answer for. There have to be limits in place. And I seem to be on a roll lately for not ingratiating myself with the masses, but my stance is it isn't clear cut. We're talking humans here. What seems like a great decision on paper has a nasty habit of biting us in the ass later.

Thank you for taking the time to read a dissenting opinion. I hope it doesn't just immediately make you write off my argument. I am not arguing it should be discussed here (I made that stance clear in my earlier posts) nor even saying I'd buy the game myself. Philias are an interesting topic. Lengthy discussion to be had, and no clear cut cure all.

Not the poster you quoted but thank you for the post.
 
I saw a documentary about sex life in Japan, it really is different.

As an extreme example, you can buy used student underwears on a street's corner shack like a magazine. :lol

are you being sarcastic? or just naive enough to fall for sensationalist "journalism".

Yes it does exist. Is it common throughout Japan? hell no. Hell anime isn't even well received in japan as most gaf members make it out to be and otakus are shunned for the most part.
 

213372bu

Banned
Well, there is actually a issue with eroticism and death, sexuality and power, something that has disturbed many modern philosophers. Sex and perversion as a game has been explored in works of fiction since centuries ago. Thought Criminal Girls seems to be just exploitative and without and actual commentary beyond pandering Otakus we should note the difference between reality and fiction as your train of thought seems to justify a lot...

Oh, it was a loaded statement. Sorry.

What? I'm sorry because, honestly you're post is written a bit confusing.

But are you comparing sexuality and power as themes in fiction to a mindless pandering of sexually touching to drawn underage kids being sexually molested in which you are rewarded with audio and visual cues? Are you really?

And having sexually drawn and real young girls touched as being one in the same, (as in US law,) is some sort of logical fallacy?
 

L Thammy

Member
Regarding what ShockingAlberto said before, I honestly feel like a lot of people - and I'm not naming names here, if just because I wouldn't be able to remember any - really don't have a fully-developed filter. It doesn't occur to them that when they put out a message, it will be received by other people.

I don't think there's a lot of things that you can do about that.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
He's not saying that picture is from anything inappropriate, he just needed a picture for the scenario he made up as a joke
It was a bad joke and he should have gone for some character design that actually supports his argument instead of whatever the fuck that was.
 

Seik

Banned
Pretty sure this is either a myth or something that was never widespread.

IDK, I'm just telling what I saw. It wasn't some kind of underground doc. or anything, it was pretty informative. I never said it was something widespread though, don't put words in my mouth. :p

She's from Ai'shiteruze Baby so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Oh come on. My point is damn clear.

Then again the show doesn't matter. it's just as obvious as some of those Criminal Girls characters that she's underage. There, that's my point.
 
Regarding what ShockingAlberto said before, I honestly feel like a lot of people - and I'm not naming names here, if just because I wouldn't be able to remember any - really don't have a fully-developed filter. It doesn't occur to them that when they put out a message, it will be received by other people.

It probably helps that there's a degree of anonymity on the internet. A lot of people here probably wouldn't get anywhere near as passionate about the subject in real life.
 

Yuuichi

Member
Pretty sure this is either a myth or something that was never widespread.
I'm kind of wondering what the hell he was watching, I'm pretty damn sure it's a myth, or at the very least the opposite of widespread.

It would be the most hilarious thing if NISA doesn't get the game rated in end, but it will most likely happen.

It would be amusing as hell to see it get an AO on a first pass rating. (For reference, none of the big 3 allow AO rated games on their systems, last I checked)
 
Personally i'm fine with hate speech and wish more people had the balls to be open about their racism instead of hiding behind dog whistles. It allows you to identify them instead of playing stupid "I have to watch what i say because he/she didn't explicitly say a racist phrase but we know damn well what they meant" PC bullshit. Plus, speech is allowed in the U.S. It's the consequence of what you say that is not regulated by law per se.

Here's the thing about the more clearly pedophile games out there, they don't MAKE pedophiles. Just like CoD or GTA didn't make criminals or murderers. Even without them we would still have pedophiles. It's an extremely taboo subject that I don't think we could get a valid conversaton about on GAF but I even wonder if playing these type of games may even curb some people's tendencies giving them an outlet for them. And if that were the case how would it affect people's opinions? That is a tangent discussion though, and like I said because the high emotions and taboo of the topic not one I think could be pulled off here.

Aren't paraphilias developed in childhood. What would you say if a younger individual was exposed to this?
 

Shouta

Member
?
Are there times where under-age girl fanservice is not sexualisation or objectification...?

Well, first off as, I implied in my other post, fanservice does not always equate to sexually charged content. Lots of people think of that and it can be true but it's not always the case. Nods and homages to older works or injokes etc are fanservice too, for example.

Second, just because it looks like a sexually charged situation, doesn't mean it is. So like a beach episode may count as fanservice but it may not actually be a sexually charged situation. Swimsuits are basic attire when you go to the beach or go swimming. When you add groping or glistening oiled bodies with long panning shots, then that's sexually charged. To use another example, just because you see a couple in a bedroom and in bed doesn't mean it's going to lead to sex. They can be sleeping.
 
I don't think animated depictions should be illegal because there is technically no victim. Strictly speaking, anyway.

I think it absolutely is morally repugnant and more than likely provides an outlet, and possibly a call to action, for people that might feel that way about real children and that's absolutely not okay. Considering that, I'd rather do whatever it takes to prevent that consequence.
This is probably the best post on that whole legal side-topic.

Probably why it's so prevalent in Japan too, since it's such a major loophole yet at the same time there's not exactly a victim either, though there's still a moral conflict.
 

Vire

Member
/facepalm
The moral ambiguity of the game is the entire point of this thread.

No, it's not ambiguous at all, 99% of this thread has been filled with people disgusted by this game including the moderators who prohibited discussion on it.

If you need help discerning whether or not a game in which you sexually abuse an underage child is "ambiguous", you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. We are talking in circles here so I rather not continue this.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Oh come on. My point is damn clear.

Then again the show doesn't matter. it's just as obvious as those Criminal Girls character that she's underage. There, that's my point.

Because the elementary school girl of Aishiteruze Baby is totally sexualiz-what the fuck am I reading?
 
IDK, I'm just telling what I saw. It wasn't some kind of underground doc. or anything, it was pretty informative. I never said it was something widespread though, don't put words in my mouth. :p



Oh come on. My point is damn clear.

Then again the show doesn't matter. it's just as obvious as those Criminal Girls character that she's underage. There, that's my point.

roll in megaman is underage. What was your point exactly? I mean if its to point out underage characters in video games then you're failing.

Also you don't have to say its widespread explicitly, because you indirectly implied it.
 
Yes. I would much rather those people have an outlet for their desires that doesn't involve an actual child. The only thing material like this does is offend sensibilities.

An argument can be made that such material can normalize the acts portrayed to the individual, but most of us have sexual interests. And most are benign. Some aren't. Some are at their core harmful. But we also know what happens when repression is the only solution.

I don't think the answer is to make every outlet illegal. I'd rather they sate their desires on fictional characters that don't actually exist rather than focus their attentions on real children. Same for those sexually aroused by depictions of rape or bestiality.

It's a really long argument is the point. One that I don't have any clear cut answer for. There have to be limits in place. And I seem to be on a roll lately for not ingratiating myself with the masses, but my stance is it isn't clear cut. We're talking humans here. What seems like a great decision on paper has a nasty habit of biting us in the ass later.

Thank you for taking the time to read a dissenting opinion. I hope it doesn't just immediately make you write off my argument. I am not arguing it should be discussed here (I made that stance clear in my earlier posts) nor even saying I'd buy the game myself. Philias are an interesting topic. Lengthy discussion to be had, and no clear cut cure all.

This is a fantastic post that was similar to a few in the other threads.

I get why this is a hot button issue for people, I do. I can understand why the immediate emotional reaction is to shame and ridicule, and to say that it's not okay for any reason, but most of us are adults here, and I'd like to think we're mature enough to handle these conversations without all of the drive-by insults and sniping, which is why I feel like the game can and should be discussed.

I know I said I was bowing out earlier, but this is still an interesting topic to me and I hope there's still some good conversation to come from it.
 

docbon

Member
Regarding what ShockingAlberto said before, I honestly feel like a lot of people - and I'm not naming names here, if just because I wouldn't be able to remember any - really don't have a fully-developed filter. It doesn't occur to them that when they put out a message, it will be received by other people.

I don't think there's a lot of things that you can do about that.

I got that impression the other day when I bore witness to someone linking 6 galleries full of personally screencapped lolicon panty shots. rip, you #beautiful soul
 
People defending a game encouraging sexual assault on depictions of pre-pubescent girls. Holy shit.

Really? Is there nothing too debased for you?
 

L Thammy

Member
It probably helps that there's a degree of anonymity on the internet. A lot of people here probably wouldn't get anywhere near as passionate about the subject in real life.

Oh, yeah, that always comes into play. But, let's say someone gets banned for doing something stupid, for example. There's some people who try to think about what they've done, maybe they can't figure it out, maybe it was a genuine error by a mod. Then there are some people who are genuinely not mature enough to realize that they could have done something wrong.
 

Settin

Member
No, it's not ambiguous at all, 99% of this thread has been filled with people disgusted by this game including the moderators who prohibited discussion on it.

If you need help discerning whether or not a game in which you sexually abuse an underage child is "ambiguous", you need to take a long hard look in the mirror. We are talking in circles here so I rather not continue this.
See my edit on my last post.
 

Neiteio

Member
So many viewpoints in this thread, it makes the head spin

All I know for certain is I find Thunder Monkey's avatar deeply arousing
 

213372bu

Banned
Yes. I would much rather those people have an outlet for their desires that doesn't involve an actual child. The only thing material like this does is offend sensibilities.

An argument can be made that such material can normalize the acts portrayed to the individual, but most of us have sexual interests. And most are benign. Some aren't. Some are at their core harmful. But we also know what happens when repression is the only solution.

I don't think the answer is to make every outlet illegal. I'd rather they sate their desires on fictional characters that don't actually exist rather than focus their attentions on real children. Same for those sexually aroused by depictions of rape or bestiality.

It's a really long argument is the point. One that I don't have any clear cut answer for. There have to be limits in place. And I seem to be on a roll lately for not ingratiating myself with the masses, but my stance is it isn't clear cut. We're talking humans here. What seems like a great decision on paper has a nasty habit of biting us in the ass later.

Thank you for taking the time to read a dissenting opinion. I hope it doesn't just immediately make you write off my argument. I am not arguing it should be discussed here (I made that stance clear in my earlier posts) nor even saying I'd buy the game myself. Philias are an interesting topic. Lengthy discussion to be had, and no clear cut cure all.

No,no... it's fine this is a discussion board in which this is the topic that I entered...

But to say it's a good outlet is just plain wrong.

I mean, do you think pedos using such material and creating a market for those deprived in liking sexually abused childeren really bettering themseves? Are they really outletting themselves?

No.

They're just succumbing to those same vile desires in a way that is barely legal. Regardless, they still are thinking of punishing little girls sexually as they play the game.

I guess I can't possibly see the logical view point in which someone finds this "good", "helping", or "therapeutic"

Actual therapy is good and proven to help. Creating a market in which pedos use other material to fantasize about those same little girls sexually in a form that is "animated" is only worsening their mental state and letting them act out on those thoughts.
 

Raticus79

Seek victory, not fairness
I've never understood why everyone always jokes about the 1000 year old thing, it doesn't happen a lot in anime, I've even seen the Vampire plot used way more than that.

Is is because of Disgaea?

Here's the general trope for it:
Really Seven Hundred Years Old

The "young-looking girl is really an old X" might be from Mahou Sensei Negima (Evangeline
became a vampire at age 10, hundreds of years ago
)
 

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I've always heard the "Japanese are open sexually!" thing is a big myth, and people who like these games are mocked over there just as much as they are here...if not more so, since it's out in the open.
 

Seik

Banned
Because the elementary school girl of Aishiteruze Baby is totally sexualiz-what the fuck am I reading?

WHAT?! I just said to not relate the picture's show to the joke I actually made, what are you guys reading?! I took a RANDOM pic.

roll in megaman is underage. What was your point exactly? I mean if its to point out underage characters in video games then you're failing.

Also you don't have to say its widespread explicitly, because you indirectly implied it.

I didn't know you could get Roll half naked and rub/spank stuff on her...

That's my point. ¬_¬
 
Resident Evil 5 isn't banned.

Why can't Japan creep up on grown women like normal people?

Isolated land masses don't have a lot of game

I've always heard the "Japanese are open sexually!" thing is a big myth, and people who like these games are mocked over there just as much as they are here...if not more so, since it's out in the open.

It's not sexuality, it's just nudity that they're more open about. If anything, they're more generally repressed sexually which is why you have a larger marker for things like Criminal Girls. Obivously, the whole population isn't like that, but there's a sizable number.
 

Yuuichi

Member
You should look up the term "ad hominem" before using it again. You are not using it right.

Could have quoted The Princess Bride, an inconcievable waste of an opportunity.

Because the elementary school girl of Aishiteruze Baby is totally sexualiz-what the fuck am I reading?

His point is just fine, don't try and act contentious about it. This thread really shouldn't be a place for that kind of conduct.
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Well I think he just randomly found a picture of Yuzu and put up a dumb joke around it. He isn't talking about Aishiteruze Baby at all.

He said he was making a point with it. I'm clarifying that it was a really fucking dumb comparison from the outset.
 

Gamerloid

Member
I don't think I have much to add to these threads now that the mods are now openly cracking down on these games. At this point it doesn't matter that I personally disapprove of Senran Kaguya, but I can admit that I see why it isn't ban worthy. Still not sure about the upcoming Bon Appetit spin-off which is a lot more sex oriented than the main series. With time it'll be clear what's too much with these games.

Anyway, I'll keep to PMing moderators when it comes to these things if need be. I don't even need the backseat mod rule, going through some of the defenders' arguments was enough at turning me off at dealing with such threads when I don't have to.
 

Neiteio

Member
WHAT?! I just said to not relate the picture's show to the joke I actually made, what are you guys reading?! I took a RANDOM pic.
Yeah, I don't know why your satire is completely flying over their heads. People, Seik just needed a picture of a young girl for his made-up scenario satirizing h-games. He wasn't suggesting the source material was inappropriate.
 
WHAT?! I just said to not relate the picture's show to the joke I actually made, what are you guys reading?! I took a RANDOM pic.



I didn't know you could get Roll half naked and rub/spank stuff on her...

That's my point. ¬_¬

that might of been your point, but you definitely did not imply that at all in your post. Learn to write out your thoughts. We aren't mind readers here. If you need help there are places that can help you.

Yeah, I don't know why your satire is completely flying over their heads. People, Seik just needed a picture of a young girl for his made-up scenario satirizing h-games. He wasn't suggesting the source material was inappropriate.

I understood what he was trying to do but he did a bad job at it
 

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Yeah, I don't know why your satire is completely flying over their heads. People, Seik just needed a picture of a young girl for his made-up scenario satirizing h-games. He wasn't suggesting the source material was inappropriate.

Then I misunderstood and I apologize to Seik.
 
I've always heard the "Japanese are open sexually!" thing is a big myth, and people who like these games are mocked over there just as much as they are here...if not more so, since it's out in the open.
Never take your family on your first trip to Akihabara when you keep billing it as 'this really cool district in Tokyo filled with games and electronics!' without knowing which shops to avoid
like I did
 

Dark Schala

Eloquent Princess
It followed in SGDQ, where people would comment on a female runner's legs or talk about the cute-voiced donation reader and try and find her twitter.

Maybe I'm just getting older and don't remember that I was such a slave to physical observations of people that I had to tell the world every time I found someone attractive in my early 20s, but jesus is it tough to read some threads sometimes.
Yes, that shit is disgusting. I wanted to give the chat a chance this year, but I eventually realized that twitch chat is going to be the way it is forever, and no one will put their foot down about it. I dunno, when I was in high school and my first year of undergrad, that type of garbage would be more prevalent, but not now. I'm in my mid-20s, and guys I know have gotten further past publicly drooling over every single woman (real or fictional) whom they find attractive (and same goes with women or trans I know declaring their interest in someone). It makes sense to express that you find a woman or man attractive, but it's usually done in a more tasteful and casual way as opposed to dwelling on it or spending excessive time on it as though you were a high schooler.

I suppose this also has to do with GAF's demographics as well, but even then, I'd expect folks to read the TOS, adhere to the rules in the FAQ forum, realize that when mods put their foot down in one or a few threads, that maybe it's not quite a good idea to carry on your behaviour in other threads. Reading through the Treehouse thread expecting news on updates but being met with post after post about every single woman on the Treehouse segment was disappointing. It's something I expect from the Twitch chat. Not from GAF. It was pretty frustrating to read through, and in the end I ditched reading through the thread (which something I don't usually do because I do try to read every post if I have time).

Now then, when Criminal Girls was announced for localization, I wanted to check in on GAF for news for the NISA panel (as I was currently signed out and haven't checked GAF in a long time). I'm in a public area on my phone, and I made a(n in hindsight) stupid decision to click on the Criminal Girls thread. What greeted me were images that I was not comfortable viewing in public. I can certainly be put at fault because I knew of the game's nature given the fact that I've read Japanese reviews for it, though at the same time, the thread was an announcement thread and not labeled NSFW. When it was an icecream thread or another person's thread (whose name escapes me, but Lin was referring to that person earlier in this thread), I knew not to click on it in public, and generally I wasn't interested in the types of games they posted about.

The thing about the Criminal Girls thread was, as I was peeking in, the discussion did not boil down to the game's content, but rather as Charlequin put it, the discussion centered on the same song and dance that this thread was going through in its beginning few pages. I read through entire threads, and the Criminal Girls thread became somewhat creepy fairly quickly. Some of this discussion may lead to content that is completely inappropriate or violates/skirts the TOS in some fashion. I have corresponded with a few lurkers and former GAF members, and while the thread in question did not grab their attention, other games' announcement threads with semi-similar content did. And this is actually unwanted attention because typically the threads are described as "trainwrecks that you can't stop watching". Obviously they don't reflect very well on the community, especially with respect to keeping up respectable discourse. A lot of people tell me that this site now has a tendency to bicker constantly and use low blows more often than not to do it, or some arguments tend to be so closed-minded or sheltered enough that one side doesn't respectfully take into account what the other side wants to say. It's like a "I'm right, you're wrong, there's nothing you can say about it and that's that" sort of affair, and this sort of mentality isn't exclusive to these types of threads being discussed. But it was most commonly seen in the Criminal Girls announcement thread.

I don't see many of the mods desiring to try to chose whether or not they should crack down or try to mediate between people. In fact, they may not know as much about the game because it's not something that interests them. At this point, it becomes difficult to moderate these threads because the moderator wouldn't have much context behind posts or even the posts' relevancy to the threads.

Eh, I just wanted to get my two cents in since someone told me about this thread. At least it's still open as an avenue of discussion. My personal concern is that a lot of the threads that I had loved to frequent during my heavier posting years have degenerated into waifu wars, posting fanart or stupid user-created fanfiction in a mocking fashion (sometimes in an effort to obtain a tag for infamy), lengthy and possibly unnecessary discussions about "canon/noncanon" or character design, etc. It's become less about discussing the video game, and more about discussing the politics surrounding the video game. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but there comes a time when people want to discuss the game itself as opposed to the politics that surround the game. But that's another discussion for another day. I've had my own misgivings and issues about GAF for quite a while, and this thread has certainly highlighted some of them by proxy. At least some of these concerns are being aired out.

I don't think this is about censorship or restricting, but more about common sense: one thing may lead to another which may skirt the TOS or violate it, and that may not be desirable to people playing the game and wanting to discuss the actual game content. So it's either you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't. It's a decision I don't envy one bit.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
Oh come on. My point is damn clear.

Then again the show doesn't matter. it's just as obvious as some of those Criminal Girls characters that she's underage. There, that's my point.
Underage cartoon character = deviant sex symbol.

Good to know!
 
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