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Will Koji Igarashi's Castlevania successor be revealed this Monday?

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Some beautiful ghost song style sprites would be the dream, but I'd rather have lesser 2D then 3D.

But 2.5d can mean a lot of things so hopefully if it is that it remains evocative of the 'vania style.
 

Gaogaogao

Member
There's a big difference between the way those games look and the way IGA's 2D games looked, though; it'd be a total regression for him and I don't think the fans would like it.

im not saying they need to look like nes games, just 2d (like sotn) if it means the mechanics and art and level design all work.
 

Gaogaogao

Member
Those are on budgets and design decisions that put their desire of 2D at a far lower cost than what Castlevania evolved into. You're largely comparing the desire to make an 8-bit 2D game to something far more modern, which this game would have aimed for anyway.

tell me again how those games arnt 'modern'. I swear to god they are both better than mighty no 9.
 

duckroll

Member
The writing's on the wall at konami though, so unless he wants to work on mobile games or budget-reduced mgs games without kojima it's not really that surprising. Only reason to continue at konami is financial stability, and after they ousted kojima even that's uncertain there

The staff aren't staying for Konami, they're staying to finish the game they put years of their lives into so fans don't get a sack of shit. At this point it is clearly about work ethic rather than loyalty or anything. :p

Maybe they are just finished with the programming. Fox Engine has been in development for a long time and knowing that MGSV is almost finished and Phantom Pain was a good way to debug the engine, his job in Kojima Productions is over.

Yeah this is also very likely. The main stuff could all be done, he's an enemy programmer, so he probably handled mostly AI stuff.
 
Those are on budgets and design decisions that put their desire of 2D at a far lower cost than what Castlevania evolved into. You're largely comparing the desire to make an 8-bit 2D game to something far more modern, which this game would have aimed for anyway.
Said it earlier in the thread, but modern 2D pixel art with realistic lighting and details like that can be done by smaller teams and lower budgets nowadays
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Foffy

Banned
tell me again how those games arnt 'modern'. I swear to god they are both better than mighty no 9.

Not modern in the sense of their visual scope and intent. Those games aim to be visual throwbacks to an age far before Igarashi's games, hence why for budget concerns, it makes sense to pitch a 2.5D game. I'm not saying they're bad, but the visual style of those games would be easily accomplishable if Igarashi was pitching a Classicvania ala Adventure Rebirth. From what we know, he's pushing the type of Metroidvania formula he's known for, which is not a purely stage based, side scrolling 2D game.

We should also consider the fact that a good chunk of the sprite artists who worked with Igarashi have apparently left the industry long ago. That type of 'middle way' seems to be gone in the industry: it's either really high end super sprite work, or a retro throwback effort. Like games today, it's either high end or low end, as the middle is gone. Igarashi didn't want to make a retro game, so he was kind of forced by the market to adapt. If the type of animators that make the games he made are no longer around, what's the next best thing? We might assume it'd mean Igarashi were to look for another 2D studio, but how many of those studios are left in Japan that aren't totally out of line to spiral costs up enormously? Inti Creates, coincidentally enough, is such a studio that could meet his desires, but I think that'd only work if it were a 3DS-only game, like Azure Striker Gunvolt. It needing to hit 1080p - I'm assuming the game will aim for every platform - would skyrocket the costs to the quality fans would expect him to meet as a baseline.
 
Said it earlier in the thread, but modern 2D pixel art with realistic lighting and details like that can be done by smaller teams and lower budgets nowadays

Lower budgets than old pixel art games or other modern games? I'm sure that being less restricted in how much things can be layered and not being forced to fit everything into tiles helps a lot, but it must still be pretty time consuming.
 

EVH

Member
Said it earlier in the thread, but modern 2D pixel art with realistic lighting and details like that can be done by smaller teams and lower budgets nowadays

Jesus christ. What games are these?

I love the 2D Castlevania mainly because of pixel art and animations. I love the way the sprites are animated, so this is nice to see.
 

Foffy

Banned
So, you guys think there's any chance this'll hit PS4?

I guarantee it. I see this going the Mighty No. 9 approach and aiming for as many platforms as it can. Those ecosystems have gotten Igarashi's games before.

I for one will be getting it for PC, assuming it goes there. I see no reason why it wouldn't if Mighty No 9 is.

That 4chan leaker doesn't sound legit.

What makes you doubt it? Fangamer is involved with this announcement, and Inti Creates is flying staff to San Francisco for an event today, which appears to be for this.
 
Jesus christ. What games are these?

I love the 2D Castlevania mainly because of pixel art and animations. I love the way the sprites are animated, so this is nice to see.
The Last Night (open world cyberpunk cinematic platformer) and Slain (hack-n-slash/old school platformer)

Slain recently had a Kickstarter, and TLN might be getting one this month.
 

Game Guru

Member
Not modern in the sense of their visual scope and intent. Those games aim to be visual throwbacks to an age far before Igarashi's games, hence why for budget concerns, it makes sense to pitch a 2.5D game. I'm not saying they're bad, but the visual style of those games would be easily accomplishable if Igarashi was pitching a Classicvania ala Adventure Rebirth. From what we know, he's pushing the type of Metroidvania formula he's known for, which is not a purely stage based, side scrolling 2D game.

We should also consider the fact that a good chunk of the sprite artists who worked with Igarashi have apparently left the industry long ago. That type of 'middle way' seems to be gone in the industry: it's either really high end super sprite work, or a retro throwback effort. Like games today, it's either high end or low end, as the middle is gone. Igarashi didn't want to make a retro game, so he was kind of forced by the market to adapt. If the type of animators that make the games he made are no longer around, what's the next best thing? We might assume it'd mean Igarashi were to look for another 2D studio, but how many of those studios are left in Japan that aren't totally out of line to spiral costs up enormously? Inti Creates, coincidentally enough, is such a studio that could meet his desires, but I think that'd only work if it were a 3DS-only game, like Azure Striker Gunvolt. It needing to hit 1080p - I'm assuming the game will aim for every platform - would skyrocket the costs to the quality fans would expect him to meet as a baseline.

To explain this in animation terms, everything's gone Flash or CGI with very few who specialize in Hand Drawn Animation with that costing a lot to do. Thus, IGA has to adapt to fit with the fact that his only options are literally Retro Throwback and 2.5D, and would likely figure that 2.5D can be better adapted for what he wants to do. I mean it's very possible to match the style of spritework with 3D now as can be seen with the recent Guilty Gear and Ace Attorney games. Theoretically all the 3D would have to do is match the look and feel of a modern day Symphony of the Night.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
Inti Creates, coincidentally enough, is such a studio that could meet his desires, but I think that'd only work if it were a 3DS-only game, like Azure Striker Gunvolt. It needing to hit 1080p - I'm assuming the game will aim for every platform - would skyrocket the costs to the quality fans would expect him to meet as a baseline.

It wouldn't need to be 3DS-only, they could upscale it for the other platforms and add other high-res elements without having to redraw everything. Shantae and the Pirate's Curse is a good, recent example of what I mean--that game has top-tier 2D art and looks fine on both 3DS and Wii U/PC, even with only minimal touchups.
 

Kirie

Member
That 4chan rumor sounds really good to me! I could live with freemium stuff as long as it isn't shoved down our throats, but I'd rather it not be in there in the first place personally.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
As long as it looks good and plays great with good music, I'll be happy. I'm just glad we are getting a new IGAvania.
 
To explain this in animation terms, everything's gone Flash or CGI with very few who specialize in Hand Drawn Animation with that costing a lot to do. Thus, IGA has to adapt to fit with the fact that his only options are literally Retro Throwback and 2.5D, and would likely figure that 2.5D can be better adapted for what he wants to do. I mean it's very possible to match the style of spritework with 3D now as can be seen with the recent Guilty Gear and Ace Attorney games. Theoretically all the 3D would have to do is match the look and feel of a modern day Symphony of the Night.
Why would those be the only options? Stuff like Slain, Rain World, and others have shown that modern tech mixed with pixel art doesn't mean you have to be restricted to retro styles. Dynamic lighting, fluid animations, procedurally generated animations, more detailed parallax backgrounds, etc., there are a lot more options than just retro and 2.5D
 

Parsnip

Member
What makes you doubt it? Fangamer is involved with this announcement, and Inti Creates is flying staff to San Francisco for an event today, which appears to be for this.

We know Inti will be in SF from their twitter, we know Fangamer could be involved because that's where the MN9 connection came from.
I think the "leaker" is just using that info that came from elsewhere to make his own bullshit appear more legit.
 

Dascu

Member
Why would those be the only options? Stuff like Slain, Rain World, and others have shown that modern tech mixed with pixel art doesn't mean you have to be restricted to retro styles. Dynamic lighting, fluid animations, procedurally generated animations, more detailed parallax backgrounds, etc., there are a lot more options than just retro and 2.5D

Yes, it's a bit silly. You don't need to have 1080p spritework for it to be acceptable as a product, even on PC. Pixel art with the same resolution and relative character sizes to Symphony of the Night or Order of Ecclesia would be perfectly fine, perhaps combined with some extra graphical effects and lighting techniques.
 

Foffy

Banned
We know Inti will be in SF from their twitter, we know Fangamer could be involved because that's where the MN9 connection came from.
I think the leaker is just using that info that came from elsewhere to make his own bullshit appear more legit.

True, but the leaker also made claims we should be able to verify or doubt in a few hours. Miriam and Gabel should be names we learn about during the stream.

I wish we had visual proof, but I'm sure Igarashi hates that after having most of his games leaked, some before they even get announced. Order of Ecclesia and Judgment were revealed before Konami even announced them. :p
 

Haunted

Member
"2.5D" by itself doesn't mean anything, all depends on the execution. We have really pleasant looking games with that angle of presentation, but... Mirror of Fate is also 2.5D and that doesn't look so great.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
Yes, it's a bit silly. You don't need to have 1080p spritework for it to be acceptable as a product, even on PC. Pixel art with the same resolution and relative character sizes to Symphony of the Night or Order of Ecclesia would be perfectly fine, perhaps combined with some extra graphical effects and lighting techniques.

I agree and I think this approach would be the only one that could produce something people would be happy with, given the assumed budget and size of the team. 2D sprites on 3D backgrounds would be a decent compromise but full-on polygonal 2.5D? Nuh-uh.
 
"2.5D" by itself doesn't mean anything, all depends on the execution. We have really pleasant looking games with that angle of presentation, but... Mirror of Fate is also 2.5D and that doesn't look so great.

I will be happy with something like this:

hard-corps-uprising-20100615010121883.jpg


A little more polished maybe.
 
I'm a little iffy on 2.5D, but we'll see. Some parts of Ducktales Remastered (Well okay, mostly the African Mines and Himalayas levels) actually looked really good despite being 2.5D.

I think character sprites on polygonal backgrounds (which is pretty much what SoTN and the DS CV games did anyway) could work well as opposed to full blown 2.5D (Like Dracula X Chronicles) could work.

Edit: @MUWANdo and rockman zx more or less hit the exact point I was trying to make, heh.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
"2.5D" by itself doesn't mean anything, all depends on the execution. We have really pleasant looking games with that angle of presentation, but... Mirror of Fate is also 2.5D and that doesn't look so great.

2.5D is usually used to describe a full polygonal game with a 2d gameplay a la Mirrors of Fate, Rondo of Blood remake on psp or the New Super Mario Bros series... that while being cheap to produce it would be pretty bad.
If it's 2D with 3D backgrounds like SotN and the DS games i think no one is going to complain.
 

@MUWANdo

Banned
If the 3DS is part of the equation then there's no way a fully polygonal game is gonna meet peoples' expectations--they can either build it for the 3DS and up-res it for every other platform, which is underwhelming to say the least, or they can build it to HD spec and crank out a terrible compromised 3DS version which will irritate all the IGA fans who want/expect the game for 3DS.
 
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