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Windows Central on US December NPD: PS4 sold 1,568,000 (238K Pro), XB1 sold 1,511,000

Jumeira

Banned
How is it extremely impressive for MS and not Sony? I don't think you understand what pro and scorpio are aimed at, even Spencer will tell you it's the high end, hard core gamer.

Because X1 achieved far more than anyone expected, up YOY and remained on the heels of PS4 which had 2 SKUs. Sony done well, but X1 showed strong progress.

I don't think $400 constitute a high end console as that price is normal for new home consoles from Sony & MS.
 

zewone

Member
I think Microsoft wants to differentiate the Scorpio from the Xbox One. They've said as much, if I'm not mistaken.

They said the exact opposite.

The idea was, first, how can we innovate with hardware without sacrificing compatibility? Generally when you bring a new iteration of console hardware you lose compatibility with their games and accessories. So we’re saying, if you bought games and accessories for your Xbox One, or you buy an Xbox One S, those games and those accessories are going to work on Project Scorpio.

The next thing was “Are you going to make games exclusively to Project Scorpio?” And we said we’re not going to have console-exclusive games for Project Scorpio. It’s one ecosystem — whether you have an Xbox One S or Project Scorpio, we don’t want anyone to be left behind

This is the definition of a mid-gen upgrade.
 

Matt

Member
Because X1 achieved far more than anyone expected, up YOY and remained on the heels of PS4 which had 2 SKUs. Sony done well, but X1 showed strong progress.

I don't think $400 constitute a high end console as that price is normal for new home consoles from Sony & MS.
That's the most charitable interpretation possible.
 

zewone

Member
Because X1 achieved far more than anyone expected, up YOY and remained on the heels of PS4 which had 2 SKUs. Sony done well, but X1 showed strong progress.

XB1 sales are down year over year world wide.

They sold ~ 7 million units in 2016 versus Sony's ~ 17+ million.

The US is just one country.
 

Doffen

Member
Ehnh, I've heard some rumors it's moving to 2018. I have no idea if they're true or not. I think it's a safer bet to assume Microsoft's not locked into 2017.

This was Phil's response yesterday on Twitter when someone asked him about the Scorpio reveal:

Feeling good about how things are coming together.

Scorpio cancelled
 

notaskwid

Member
Pro numbers are pitiful for being it's 2nd month during peak season. I think Sony botched the console's marketing and the console itself. If MS does a good job of showing the difference and actively show off 3rd parties looking superior then Scorpio will sell much better during the same months. All depends if the gap can be seen though.

Extremely impressive for MS though, well done Phil.
Managed to keep within a million on a market they sold almost double last gen, well done indeed.
 

Chris1

Member
Basically, Microsoft's always contextualized this as a next-gen. I don't know why anyone would see it as anything else. That's what Microsoft appears to want this to be.

Seems pretty weird to me for a "next gen" system to be clearly classified as "part of the xbox one family."
 
Because X1 achieved far more than anyone expected, up YOY and remained on the heels of PS4 which had 2 SKUs. Sony done well, but X1 showed strong progress.

I don't think $400 constitute a high end console as that price is normal for new home consoles from Sony & MS.

Yet still getting outsold and I believe is down YOY WW.
 

farisr

Member
I'm getting kind of nostalgic reading some things here.

A lot of the Scorpio posts right now are reminding me of all the secret sauce and dGPU talk about the XB1 before launch. And some of the posts regarding the Pro before its launch as well.
 

DocSeuss

Member
If this is true I wasn't aware

I've been a freelance games journalist for four years, and a consultant for almost two (I get the dates messed up from time to time).

They said the exact opposite.

This is the definition of a mid-gen upgrade.

I swear I've heard some remarks about them calling it Scorpio precisely because they don't want it to be seen as an Xbox One, but I'm not finding anything on google, so I'm either fuckin up my google fu or something else.
 

notaskwid

Member
I'm getting kind of nostalgic reading some things here.

A lot of the Scorpio posts right now are reminding me of all the secret sauce and dGPU talk about the XB1 before launch. And some of the posts regarding the Pro before its launch as well.

You should read Senjutsu Sage's posts yesterday on the biggest xbox one challenge so far thread, a literal blast from the past.
 

Curufinwe

Member
The main "gimmick" of the Pro is more power for games. Like how Final Fantasy actually runs at a playable framerate on the Pro, compared to the joke of the vanilla version.

The problem is there's no reason for developers to patch older games so the Pro is looking pretty fucking useless right now outside of like ~25 games.

Every PS4 game released since October has a Pro mode. It's designed for new games so it's only useless if you stopped buying PS4 games when you bought a Pro.
 
I'm getting kind of nostalgic reading some things here.

A lot of the Scorpio posts right now are reminding me of all the secret sauce and dGPU talk about the XB1 before launch. And some of the posts regarding the Pro before its launch as well.

Tell me about it. I mean the Scorpio will be a substantial upgrade over the XB1, but unless Microsoft goes back on its word, the Scorpio is part of the XB1 family.
 
I'm getting kind of nostalgic reading some things here.

A lot of the Scorpio posts right now are reminding me of all the secret sauce and dGPU talk about the XB1 before launch. And some of the posts regarding the Pro before its launch as well.

Haha yeah, lots of hopes and wishes, and scorpio is brought up in almost every thread.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
You should read Senjutsu Sage's posts yesterday on the biggest xbox one challenge so far, a literal blast from the past.
He once accused me of being on a campaign of misinformation against Xbox when I was using a direct quote from Phil Spencer.
 

Chris1

Member
I swear I've heard some remarks about them calling it Scorpio precisely because they don't want it to be seen as an Xbox One, but I'm not finding anything on google, so I'm either fuckin up my google fu or something else.
Did they call xbox one Durango because they don't want to be associated with xbox 360 too


I wish Bish was still around, the amount of "insiders" posting nonsense lately is getting out of hand
 

ethomaz

Banned
- Scorpio to kill PS5
- "Insiders" claiming over 8TF @ $399
- Misterxmedia the new "insider"
- Google "insider" says everything is truth fact

What this thread turned out lol

C'mon GAFers.
 

tuna_love

Banned
qZHaUBs.jpg

onemanasylum doing the work of four
 

//DEVIL//

Member
They said the exact opposite.





This is the definition of a mid-gen upgrade.
I'll have to ask. What is after ? I mean what will happen with the console after Scorpio ?

Let's call it Scorpio x2. How will that perform ? Will it be backward compatible with Xbox 1? Will x2 games also work on Xbox one ?

I know MS said there won't be Scorpio games and one eco system but that line is full of Bs. Because the x2 WIL have exclusive games that cant be played on Xbox one. And this elimate the idea of one eco system.

It might be backward compatible with Xbox one . But they can't make games based on old console tech . Otherwise their game will look shit compared to ps5

Based on the above . I don't believe the bs line of one eco system. Regardless if we will get to see project Scorpio exclusive games or not .
 
PS4 and X1 put up good numbers

If people actually think that a Scorpio at 399 or above is going to do magnitudes better than the Pro, I'm sure they'll be surprised.
 
It's like folks aren't aware I work in the industry or something

And you prove over and over how out of touch you are to it.

You claimed US was more important than the rest of the world yesterday than when laughd at you hide.

Now you make up stories about how Scorpio is a new gen when MS themselves claim it is not. That the scorpio will be a 8tf machine when MS have said it's not.

And now you want to make it sound like the 360 was the HD king of last gen???? Even if it were the case ,more or less everyone here seems to think PS3 actually surpassed it by now, it would still be such a close call it's not even worth using as an argument.



Then you try to hide behind NDA?

Edit:phone
 

jeffram

Member
PS4 Pro #s are a bit underwhelming, and I think will only slowly grow (as a % of the overall Playstation sales). Unlikely to ever surpass base PS4 monthly sales, though I don't know if that was ever the goal. However, I think Microsoft is going to have an even harder time positioning the Scorpio because of a few things:

1. Price. It will cost more to produce than the PS4pro. And will likely be priced higher.
- at 14nm fabrication, a 40% increase in GPU performance means a larger GPU within the APU
- at 14nm fabrication, and in crease in CPU performance and in all likelihood a different product will increase the CPU size within the APU
- Backwards compatibility almost ensures ESRAM is required on the chip which will also take up room on the APU
- UHD Blu-ray will cost an estimated $15 more
- Power supply will almost certainly be larger than the PS4 Pro
- Cooling solutions will also need to be more robust to cool the larger and hotter APU
- The case will be physically bigger and more expensive
- Scorpio will have less economies of scale trough common parts. ie. will likely have different RAM than the 1S where as the PS4pro runs the same main RAM. etc. Scorpio will need to be more bespoke (expensive).

2. They've just marketed a new more powerful 4K HDR Xbox
- There are going to be plenty of consumers who just bought a new 1S thinking it's the newest xbox, and feel let down by another new xbox, despite the E3 reveal of scorpio
- The 1S was marketed with 4K and HDR and made to feel like a 4K console. Many consumers who bought the 1S will feel they already have a 4K xbox, and many who didn't might see them both as 4K and buy the 1S instead.

3. Diminishing returns on power
- The more powerful consoles get, the less important and differentiating power is. We're past the point where power transforms what is possible. Are today's games any more ambitious than they were last generation? GTAV is still one of the most technologically ambitious games available, and it was possible on PS3 and 360.
- Visually games are good enough. Look at PS4 to PS4 pro, a double in GPU performance. Many struggle to see the difference, and it's almost impossible to advertise. What is Scorpio going to do with 40% more GPU performance? It's not enough to go from 30fps to 60fps without a fidelity loss. It's not enough to go from checkardboard 4K to native 4K without a fidelity loss. Cross-platform games with unlocked frame rates or unlocked resolutions might see some benefit. Otherwise, it will be hard to discern the difference for anyone outside of Digital Foundry.

4. It won't be launching with highly marketable software
- It won't have exclusive software, and despite marketing efforts will have to be sold by the same software as the xbox 1/1s
- 1st Party - Crackdown might be the only big first party game at launch. Will it look better than anything else? Forza will look amazing sure, but racing games have looked amazing all generation.
- 3rd Party - Sony has locked up a lot of 3rd party marketing deals for the fall including: Destiny 2, Call of Duty 2017, Red Dead Redemption 2, and Star Wars Battlefront 2. Microsoft could have really used RDR or Destiny 2 this year. Assassin's Creed 2017 will go to Microsoft but that's not a series that generates the same type of hype/sales as some of the others.
 
The pro does seem like a mistep by Sony. It's not a particularly meaningful upgrade over ps4 slim, can't do native 4k, and doesn't have a UHD blu ray player. The values just not there. They should've waited a year or two until native 4k was possible and released a more substantial upgrade, especially considering base ps4 is killing it anyway.
 

borges

Banned
Can we take the Pro sales as indication of how Scorpio might perform?

I think to some extent, yes. Maybe Scorpio could do better depending on how is presented on public, and then advertised. But reality seems to indicate that these premium versions wont sell better ever than base models. Which is, indeed, a confirmation that price is THE key factor to move consoles.
 

Mashing

Member
I bought and XB1S Gears bundle for the cheap 4k blu-ray. Haven't played a single game on it yet.

The Pro sales are about where I expected, but I do agree that it will never pass the base PS4 (why would it? Maybe when more HDR sets are in homes, but PS5 will be out by then I imagine).

Scorpio has a large uphill climb. Good luck to Microsoft.
 

Kill3r7

Member
The pro does seem like a mistep by Sony. It's not a particularly meaningful upgrade over ps4 slim, can't do native 4k, and doesn't have a UHD blu ray player. The values just not there. They should've waited a year or two until native 4k was possible and released a more substantial upgrade, especially considering base ps4 is killing it anyway.

As a Pro owner, who is not overly impressed with the Pro, I could not disagree more. There is definitely a place for these mid gen console upgrades. Their value will become more apparent in the coming years. Please go play TLG on the PS4 and the Pro and tell me that you can't see the difference both visually and performancewise at 1080p.
 
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