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Wolfenstein developers are “incredibly disappointed” that fighting Nazis is now “problematic”

ZehDon

Member
I think the appropriate question that Machine Games should be asking is: “what did we do to fuck up so badly that a game about killing literal fucking Nazis is viewed poorly?”

Nazis are in the group of “ok” villains - villains you can kill all day without needing to stop and ask why. Zombies, mutants, bandits, Nazis; no one gives a shit, we don’t need a reason to kill them.

Everyone loves TNO, fewer enjoyed TNC, and fucking no one enjoyed Youngblood. Maybe it has less to do with Nazis and more to do with the bullshit bolted on to the game?
 
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Bryank75

Banned
Politics aside, I could never enjoy any of their games. From mechanics to enemies and level design... I always thought they were a pretty average or below studio. I think their latest game with the two sisters was also a bomb...

Bethesda is just crap in general though.
 

mcz117chief

Member
Everyone loves TNO
I don't. I think it was a shit game even before I read all the praise for it on the internet. The only thing I like about the game is the opening mission. After the time skip it is just shit tier. Best Wolfenstein game by far and wide is Return to Castle Wolfenstein. I replayed that a few weeks ago and it still plays amazingly well and is genuine good fun.
 
We'll get to the point the only thing you can shoot in games will be wooden dummies
Jesus Christ, relax, these only are games

Killing in games =\ enjoying killings in reality, sjw seen to not understand this easy concept

And honestly, I'm really tired of the sjw crowd to try piloting every media nowadays

Girl main character blah blah
No black characters, create some pliz blah blah

You are in Africa vs African enemies ( what a surprise) in RE5, racist game!!!111

Poor, sweet nazis, it's offensive for them to killing in games, could we Bring them flowers?


Lol


( non a so serious post, I have to clarify)
 

danielberg

Neophyte
Daughters have potential they would have fit in a game thats 100% committed to B movie insanity and comedy in all things from enemies to weapons to environments and story.
They need to go full on crazy already maybe get some advice from the doom guys as well.
 

Starfield

Member
The design decision behind Wolfenstein Youngblood is beyond and utter shit. Image a game where your enemies are just bullet sponges who sometimes need more than 5 full clips in order to go down, areas that are you have to revisit more than five times in a row and whenever you revisit an area all the same enemies spawn in the exact same spot thing the exact same thing over and over and if you leave and enter the area again everything starts a new, then you got absolutely zero story, just shit and repititve missions.


That is Wolfenstein Youngblood.

The devs obviously just want to distract you from these facts with their bullshit excuses.
 
I stopped playing The New Colossus about halfway through. I was enjoying the actual levels but the hub areas and dialogue within them were far more egregious than the first title, which i barely made it to the end of. Making the connections to modern politics was a terrible decision on theior behalf, capitalising on the lies and hyperbole regarding the current president and republicans apparently being "Nazis" or "fascists".

I just wish they'd stuck to the strong parts of the games and just celebrated killing actual Nazis and not tried to goad the less perceptive of us.
 

Filben

Member
Good thing then I haven't killed a single Nazi in the German version of Wolfenstein I & II
giphy.gif


On a serious note, it never occurred to me, especially after Inglorious Basterds that killing fictional people who would in real life gladly gas you or do crazy bizarre experiments to you just because you're homosexual or not "Aryan enough".
 
Daughters have potential they would have fit in a game thats 100% committed to B movie insanity and comedy in all things from enemies to weapons to environments and story.
They need to go full on crazy already maybe get some advice from the doom guys as well.
Having watched the cutscenes and dialogue for the characters I have to very, very strongly disagree with this.

Those two obnoxious retards are utterly insufferable and incredibly badly written. They're over the top, dumb jock stereotypes hamfistedly cramed into two girl's character models. There is absolutely nothing redeemable in them, and a game built even more around their wankery would be unbearable.

If they bother with another game, they need to get swiftly killed off as unceremoniously as possible.
 
SJW’s are the 21st Century Nazi equivalent.
Bethesda is having a case of double speak here, I was not sure if I red right when one moment they say that they don't want their story to be politically relevant, then they use the slogan "make America Nazi free again" which is quite relevant in today's humor less world (also the apparent pandering in the game).

Either way, this is probably not what killed sales, some reviews mentioned that the level and mission design seemed repetitive and lazy, that may have put of some gamers, since quite a lot don't care for the stories in the first place.
 

Petrae

Member
Medal of Honor and Call of Duty have had the act of killing Nazis— but they never politicized it. The games were just games, and the people behind it let the gameplay do the talking.

Machine Games and Bethesda chose to politicize the fuck out of the follow-ups to The New Order, riding the wave of “With us or against us” angry political rhetoric and the expansion of who (apparently) is a Nazi. This was bad enough; then the follow-ups wound up being steps down from The New Order— including, by most accounts, a shitty co-op mechanic and insufferable characters that replaced the series’ long-time protagonist.

This is deflection from the obvious for Machine Games, which is a failure to admit that their games were flawed and trying to use extreme political rhetoric to push sales didn’t help. Maybe now Bethesda can give Wolfenstein a rest.
 

llien

Member
21st Century Nazi equivalent.
Welp, Grievance Studies" trio made them publish a chapter from Mein Kampf.

So there you go.

What does that even mean?
I was told term "feminazi" was coined by a feminist.
Unfortunately I do not remember which one.
The context of the discussion was intolerance towards those expressing dissenting opinion.
 

Birdo

Banned
They were clearly trying to tap into the media craze that "Nazis are taking over America". Which any sane person can see is pure bullshit.

People saw this and called it out. I don't know why they can't understand this. I guess lack of self-awareness or pure ignorance.
 

#Phonepunk#

Banned
Feel like killing Nazis in a video game is more or less a perfect analog to the always online people who think people posting clown memes are identical to literal historical Nazis. Trade one fiction for another
 
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The interview is a puff piece. There wasn't a widespread group of neo-Nazi/white supremacists angry with their depiction of Nazis. I'm sure someone spoke up, but that wasn't really the criticism. The criticism is that MachineGames is putting politics and ideology in their games. Maybe that accusation is true, maybe that accusation isn't a valid complaint even if it is true. I don't care either way, but that is the complaint against them. Who is complaining that Nazis are getting killed? And the article's author completes the twist by generalizing the response to people who thought their games were "controversial".

To say they're incredibly disappointed that fighting Nazis is now problematic is a dishonest spin of the true story. Very few people think fighting Nazis is problematic, and it's definitely not the core of the criticism against MachineGames.It's a deflection, but of course the journalist turns it into a headline instead of challenging them on this statement.
 

Saruhashi

Banned
We're not talking about "fighting nazis" (nice attempt to shift the goalposts there) we're talking about "killing nazis" and similar graphic synonyms of repeated ad nauseam.

Personally, I don't care to join into any outrage, and I don't think that the Wolfenstein games are any problematic, you're actually killing pixels, not people.

That being said, as someone living in Europe, what I consider concerning is that extremism in America has reached the point in which violence against the other side is seen as something good and heroic even in real life, and not just in World War II. It's applied to today.

Wolfenstein games aren't problematic, but the obsessive, chest-beating talk of killing this and that is at the very least distasteful. I have never once in my life seen another FPS developer who talked so much and with so much misplaced pride about killing. It's a game. You're not killing anyone. You're not actually a super action hero fighting against a tyrannical regime. You're a dude or dudette in a comfy room with a controller in your hands shooting at pixels that can't really hurt you.

So maybe it'd be better to chill about this whole idea that killing people is great as long as they're bad people. Killing is at times necessary but it's never good, let alone fun. It's certainly not a problem to do it in games, but I don't think it's a good idea to turn it into a marketing slogan and drum it for years.

Yeah, I think the core concept of Wolfenstein is great for an FPS and loads of fun whilst the violent content allows it to be a little bit "edgy" and "controversial" at the same time.

I definitely don't need the developers, publishers etc beating me over the head with it constantly though. OK, guys, I get it. Nazis were bad your game is about fighting them in an alternate history scenario, great. I want to play but I am not going to cheer and clap like a seal everytime you say "it's a game about.... killing Nazis". Just fucking stop.

I also have a deep suspicion that some of this is done to mitigate potential criticism of the game itself. Like "our game is ALL about killing Nazis so if you don't like it then what does that say about you". I think they purposefully leaned into this hoping that reviewers would say "OK, this is the one game I don't want to be seen as not liking".

It's like how the hell do you manage to basically annoy people into not wanting to buy your game?

I think from our position, 80 years after the fact, we don't really "get" the severity of what was going on in Europe in the late 1930s and early 1940s. We don't really understand the horror of war in that era and yet we personalize it as if we were somehow there.

People saying things like "the last time the Nazis were taking over WE stood up to them and killed them all". What the fuck?
Folks who seem to legitimately think that when a group of them batter the shit out of an unarmed journalist (regardless of provocation) that this is somehow akin to flying over to Europe to potentially die far from home in a horrific manner.

The new Wolfenstein games would have been fine just marketing them as what they were. Fun FPS games with an interesting premise and a bit of gritty violence to cap it all off. There was never any need to try and link it to modern day politics and never any need to keep banging on the "our game lets you kill Nazis" drum over and over again.

I think there is a very strange contradiction in trying to sell an ultra violent shooting game to an audience that supposedly abhors violence and guns.
Then complaining that the levels of pandering made people, who DID want that ultra violent shooter, turn round and say "actually you are kind of being annoying about this now".
 

Whitesnake

Banned
Nobody cares about killing nazis. Call of Duty, Sniper Elite, Medal of Honor, etc all have had nazis as the main enemy, and nobody cares.

The problem is you're dumb enough to think your fictional nazi dystopia is a good allegory for contemporary politics, and use the characters as your personal mouthpieces to talk about contemporary issues.

That's bad, and you should feel bad about it.
 
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Vawn

Banned
Well, according to some people, especially those type who visit a certain other gaming site, anyone who doesn't 100% agree with your political and social viewpoints is a Nazi. So, I can see just killing all "Nazis" is pretty extreme.
 

Shifty

Member
I'll be honest, that article is a bit of a dog's dinner.

The author seems to be having a hard time actually communicating a conclusion. One paragraph of 'news' followed by three of vaguely-related blather to pad out the word count...

Here's the original source, which is somewhat less noisy:


It sounds like they're complaining about the extreme right normalizing naziism rather than this 'problematic' thing being a consequence of the extreme left's reee-ing, There's not really that much to go on tbh.
 
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Virex

Banned
I play games for escapism and fun. I don't play games some developer trying to lecture me and push their shitty agenda. Make good games and maybe more people will buy it so you don't have to blame others because no one wants to play your virtue signalling bullshit.
 

Fitzchiv

Member
Bethesda continues its descent into full fuckwittery.

This isn't about killing fictitious Nazis in a video game. They know it, we know it, everyone knows it. As someone puts it above, it's snidey double speak.

"It's really sad killing Nazis in a game has become controversial" = "it's really sad out attempts to piggyback onto a social topic for warrior points has backfired and been called out because it turns out people can see clumsy opportunism from a mile off. That and the fact society hasn't even got close to bottoming out the current topics being polarised into the entire right being called "Nazis" and the entire left being called "SJW's".

Stop trying to show how right on you are by making pathetic attempts at appearing it, and make a good fucking game. Idiots.
 

petran79

Banned
One reason I love Steam. Wolfenstein will have that anime nazi cute girl visual novel to compete and I am sure the anime game will trump over it in ratings and popularity.
 
In the brief interview, Öjerfors also expresses his concern over the rise of right-wing extremism, and how extremists shape the online discourse

Then stop responding to extremists!

At some point people need to realize that the only thing that separates Right extremists from Left extremists is ideology. They are both about the advancement of their group and feel their group and ideas are superior to the others or opposition.

Of course we all know not to respond or entertain the Right extremists. Why are we pretending the Left extremists are any different?

Ignore them both. Not just the one.
 

ExpandKong

Banned
I'll be honest, that article is a bit of a dog's dinner.

The author seems to be having a hard time actually communicating a conclusion. One paragraph of 'news' followed by three of vaguely-related blather to pad out the word count...

Here's the original source, which is somewhat less noisy:


It sounds like they're complaining about the extreme right normalizing naziism rather than this 'problematic' thing being a consequence of the extreme left's reee-ing, There's not really that much to go on tbh.

If anyone’s “normalizing naziism” it’s the lunatics declaring everyone to the right of Stalin a Nazi.
 

JimmyRustler

Gold Member
I dunno but perhaps it’s because the left has shifted the meaning of the term nazi so much that by now it is unclear what it means. When you’re being labeled a nazi for say opposing illegal immigration for so long, the slogan of killing nazis kinda looses its... how should I say... motivation? I don’t know. But it makes sense psychologically that even moderate people take slight offense in this political climate.
 
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Shifty

Member
If anyone’s “normalizing naziism” it’s the lunatics declaring everyone to the right of Stalin a Nazi.
I dunno but perhaps it’s because the left has shifted the meaning of the term nazi so much that by now it is unclear what it means. When you’re being labeled a nazi for say opposing illegal immigration for so long, the slogan of killing nazis kinda looses its... how should I say... motivation? I don’t know. But it makes sense psychologically that even moderate people take slight offense in this political climate.
Yup, the more a term gets misused the more meaning it loses, until you end up with something that's no different from a common-or-garden slur.

One way or another, it seems like the devs are mystified by the idea that people will lash back when painted in broad strokes as nazis through political ad campaigns.

rwknyu50jmw11.png
 
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DeepEnigma

Gold Member
It's a shame Wolfenstein has been so turbo fucked by the toxic modern cultural climate, The New Order was a good game.

The world has changed so much since 2014 it's enough to make my head spin.

Their forced narrative mental gymnastics and playing stupid, are exactly why I have not played any of them past TNO. Good way to kill my interest. I still need to pick up TOB, but the desire is quickly waning.

Not interested in the 2 that came after, and I really enjoyed TNO.
 
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Riven326

Banned
Well, let's just stop for a second. Isn't this a developer based in Sweden? If so, do we even have to wonder what they consider to be Nazis? Same with DICE. This is the woke feminist capital of he world.

Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with fighting Nazis in a video game other than the fact that it's very safe and has been done already in many games. If people don't like the idea then don't buy the game.

But I think this brings to light one crucial issue involving certain taboos in video games that don't exist for filmmakers. There have been many films that portray German soldiers accurately during ww2. Some of these films are exclusively about there soldiers and generals and what they went through during the war. It really shows that they were human just like everyone else.

This does not exist in the space of video games. Developers are not allowed to make ww2 games that portray the Germans as anything other than genocidal monsters. They don't even have the Nazi flag in the multiplayer mode of these games anymore. So what do we get? We get more Wolfenstein and more running up the beaches of Normandy while under heavy machine gun fire. The thing is, we have done this a thousand times already in other games. But because game developers do not have The Same creative freedom as filmmakers, you will be running up that goddamn beach for the rest of your life.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Since TNO, the series has gone down as they've fucked up with level design, gameplay elements, and bad writing. They jumped on the punch a Nazi thing and linked a Trump slogan to Nazis.

But it's totally not their fault the series has slipped since their promising start. Killing Nazis just became toxic. Lol.
 

JoduanER2

Member
nazis loved censoring and imposing thought control and making sure all textbooks were ideologically pure. Oh and violence against political enemies....

They also were convinced they were doing the right thing.

Exactly like this left wing idiots. Antifa is text book fascism which is what they are claiming to be against, they are so stupid. Youtube is full of videos proving my point, and you won't find none proving theirs (no kidding, if you can find ONE you get a prize)
 
What does that even mean?

Both SJWs and Nazis:

1. Force businesses and individuals to follow their ideology to the letter or face economic destruction through coercion and conspiracy
2. Restrict speech to protect certain groups and demonize others
3. Created re-education camps (not talking about concentration camps, but actual separate re-education camps for German dissidents)

They both are also economically left, so there is that too.
 
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