Support NeoGAF

[Helios]

Wolfenstein developers are “incredibly disappointed” that fighting Nazis is now “problematic”

MachineGames set out to make "interesting stories" with The New Order.

www.pcgamesn.com

PCGamesInsider.biz spoke with MachineGames senior game director Andreas Öjerfors at Gamecom this week, who talked about the team’s surprise to learn they were making controversial games.

“It’s incredibly weird and disappointing,” he said. “We never meant for our stories to be relevant; we wanted to tell great, interesting stories to the best of our abilities.”

In the lead-up to the launch of Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus, publisher Bethesda ran a promotional campaign on social media that included the hashtag #NoMoreNazis and slogans like ‘Make America Nazi-Free Again.’ A vocal group of people complained enough about this that Bethesda ultimately issued a statement, clarifying the company’s position that “Nazis are bad an un-American.”

“When we started to talk about Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus, we started to get comment online about the theme of the game, fighting the Nazis,” Öjerfors said. “Somehow people felt that was problematic, which is just incredibly disappointing.”

In the brief interview, Öjerfors also expresses his concern over the rise of right-wing extremism, and how extremists shape the online discourse

 

[Helios]

I'll double post as I didn't want to include my personal comments in the OP:
Deflecting the sales of two bad games on the fact that you got some backlash on your Make America Nazi-Free Again campaign is maybe not the right way to go about it. Unless you want to pull a BFV
"We never meant for our stories to be relevant" - Well, maybe don't use a slogan that has recently been used in a political campaign?

 

[bitbydeath]

SJW’s are the 21st Century Nazi equivalent.

 

[azz0r]

SJW’s are the 21st Century Nazi equivalent.

What does that even mean?

 

[TheMay30thMan]

If they hadn’t referenced the current political climate in the US in their marketing, it wouldn’t have been an issue. But they did. Pretending they weren’t “trying to be relevant” is hilarious because it obviously isn’t true.

Even funnier, if they hadn’t touched politics in the marketing, they’d still be made fun of for their terrible writing and pandering to the left.

 

[EightBit Man]

What does that even mean?

He probably refers to their totalitarian spirit. Of course one could use other metaphors (like Stalinists), but in a way he's right.

 

[joe_zazen]

He probably refers to their totalitarian spirit. Of course one could use other metaphors (like Stalinists), but in a way he's right.

nazis loved censoring and imposing thought control and making sure all textbooks were ideologically pure. Oh and violence against political enemies....

They also were convinced they were doing the right thing.

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

"we wanted to tell great, interesting stories to the best of our abilities.”

Well you failed.

 

[ruvikx]

In the brief interview, Öjerfors also expresses his concern over the rise of right-wing extremism, and how extremists shape the online discourse

What a bunch of dishonest cretins. They made constant references to Trump & conservatives whilst equating them with "Nazis", Wolfenstein II has some explicit anti-white content and these people seem to conveniently ignore the fact the far left is historically just as bad as the "Nazis" - if not worse. And considering the manner in which SJW's have shifted the ideological goalposts so far left & nearly off the damn spectrum itself (i.e. merely believing in national borders, two genders, the US constitution & free speech now earns everyone an "you're an extremist" label in places like reset), they can take their biased definition of "extremist" & shove it where it belongs.

Also, nazis loved censoring and imposing thought control and making sure all textbooks were ideologically pure.

It is worth mentioning that all totalitarian systems are not "equal" just because they're totalitarian. Nazis & SJW's are in fact complete opposites.

 

[brap]

Remember at E3 this year when the dude on stage said nazis like 50 times? You guys hate nazis? You wanna kill some nazis?

 

[Rhysser]

Wow so the far right is now complaining about games with the bad guys being Nazis? What is the world coming to?

 

[bitbydeath]

What does that even mean?

They’re both cults that think they’re purifying the world no matter the damage/deaths caused.

 

[-Arcadia-]

Linking Nazism to peaceful, modern conservative beliefs is what’s actually “...incredibly weird and disappointing”.

Literally nobody gave a shit, until everyone involved decided to insinuate the actual fucking Fuhrer was linked to regular people going about their lives, for the edge factor.

In that context, when they were creepily, continually obsessed with the brutal murder of Nazis in the marketing and trade shows (Brap has a good example from the latest game), it makes me wonder who exactly they were talking about. Nazis? Or people who have the audacity to disagree with them?

 

[Conan-san]

Man I wish I had the lack of spine to admit that maybe two of my projects were not barnstormers and instead to attribute it to something to make me look like the hero in a situation where I'm clearly not.

 

[joe_zazen]

Wow so the far right is now complaining about games with the bad guys being Nazis? What is the world coming to?

You missed the episode where beth marketing tied their game to 2016 politics and nazis to republicans, and then invited fans to give them $60 because thats what good folks do: buy corporate products with progressive advertising to make the world better. I do find it funny that they ended up making the trumps richer by doing that as Donald’s brother is on the zenimax board and a major owner.

 

[ruvikx]

Wow so the far right is now complaining about games with the bad guys being Nazis? What is the world coming to?

The world has come to a situation where Bill Clinton would be labelled a "Nazi" in current-year woke circles for his state of the union speech back in 1995:



The definition of "far right" now incorporates most normies from just a few years ago. Say hello to the world of SJW's.

 

[Rhysser]

You missed the episode where beth marketing tied their game to 2016 politics and nazis to republicans, and then invited fans to give them $60 because thats what good folks do: buy corporate products with progressive advertising to make the world better. I do find it funny that they ended up making the trumps richer by doing that as Donald’s brother is on the zenimax board and a major owner.

I saw the first bit about them tying it to politics, but yes, I didn't see the part where they tied nazis to republicans. Where did that happen? Also I'm going to guess people complaining are not the run-of-the-mill republicans.

 

[danielberg]

"We insinuated and at one point labeled trump supporters as nazis, then the people we insulted stopped buying our game! Why is attacking "nazis" suddenly "problematic" ?!"

Eat shit retards

 

[EightBit Man]

I saw the first bit about them tying it to politics, but yes, I didn't see the part where they tied nazis to republicans. Where did that happen? Also I'm going to guess people complaining are not the run-of-the-mill republicans.

You're wrong.

 

[danielberg]

nvm

 

[Rhysser]

You're wrong.

Cannot possibly watch more than 2 minutes of that video. Not sure how you can post this without feeling utterly embarrassed with yourself.

 

[EightBit Man]

Cannot possibly watch more than 2 minutes of that video. Not sure how you can post this without feeling utterly embarrassed with yourself.

Does it make you feel uncomfortable?

 

[Abriael_GN]

We're not talking about "fighting nazis" (nice attempt to shift the goalposts there) we're talking about "killing nazis" and similar graphic synonyms of repeated ad nauseam.

Personally, I don't care to join into any outrage, and I don't think that the Wolfenstein games are any problematic, you're actually killing pixels, not people.

That being said, as someone living in Europe, what I consider concerning is that extremism in America has reached the point in which violence against the other side is seen as something good and heroic even in real life, and not just in World War II. It's applied to today.

Wolfenstein games aren't problematic, but the obsessive, chest-beating talk of killing this and that is at the very least distasteful. I have never once in my life seen another FPS developer who talked so much and with so much misplaced pride about killing. It's a game. You're not killing anyone. You're not actually a super action hero fighting against a tyrannical regime. You're a dude or dudette in a comfy room with a controller in your hands shooting at pixels that can't really hurt you.

So maybe it'd be better to chill about this whole idea that killing people is great as long as they're bad people. Killing is at times necessary but it's never good, let alone fun. It's certainly not a problem to do it in games, but I don't think it's a good idea to turn it into a marketing slogan and drum it for years.

 

[danielberg]

Cannot possibly watch more than 2 minutes of that video. Not sure how you can post this without feeling utterly embarrassed with yourself.

You said nothing absolutely nothing, maybe try arguing why something is not true in your opinion next time and show what you got instead of projecting and pretending.

 

[Rhysser]

Does it make you feel uncomfortable?

No, it's because it's just a bunch of moaning about how there's breastfeeding and fat people in the game or whatever other trivial BS is triggering the person who made it. Hard to watch people being triggered.

 

[Stilton Disco]

I'm left wing and have always enjoyed Nazi antagonists in games because they were both competent and deadly, as well as a genuine real world threat, and so evil you dont have to feel any sympathy. It's part of the reason The New Order was so fun.

From New Colossus onwards however, the studio has gone out of it's way to compare Nazis to anyone in the real world that's not a far left extremist, which ironically enough means tacitly supporting people who turn a blind eye to antisemitism and are on the side of the facistic Chinese government, whose ex Pat's, we saw from pro China protests in Vancouver in the last few days, were literally performing the Nazi salute.

You can't call 90% of your audience evil while extolling the virtues of authoritarian extremists and expect sales to not take a hit.

I can only hope this causes them to take a step back and actually have a bit of critic thought on their and their 'allies' beliefs, as I myself did, and realise there is something deeply rotten in modern western politics, and it's not the right wing, whose beliefs and moral stances have actually shifted slightly to the left in the last few decades.

 

[Ban Puncher]

IT'S BEEN 4 GAMES JUST LET ME FIGHT MECHA HITLER ALREADY

 

[joe_zazen]

We're not talking about "fighting nazis" (nice attempt to shift the goalposts there) we're talking about "killing nazis" and similar graphic synonyms of repeated ad nauseam.

Personally, I don't care to join into any outrage, and I don't think that the Wolfenstein games are any problematic, you're actually killing pixels, not people.

That being said, as someone living in Europe, what I consider concerning is that extremism in America has reached the point in which violence against the other side is seen as something good and heroic even in real life, and not just in World War II. It's applied to today.

Wolfenstein games aren't problematic, but the obsessive, chest-beating talk of killing this and that is at the very least distasteful. I have never once in my life seen another FPS developer who talked so much and with so much misplaced pride about killing. It's a game. You're not killing anyone. You're not actually a super action hero fighting against a tyrannical regime. You're a dude or dudette in a comfy room with a controller in your hands shooting at pixels that can't really hurt you.

So maybe it'd be better to chill about this whole idea that killing people is great as long as they're bad people. Killing is at times necessary but it's never good, let alone fun. It's certainly not a problem to do it in games, but I don't think it's a good idea to turn it into a marketing slogan and drum it for years.

Best post.

 

[TheDuskwalker]

Gamers are "incredibly disappointed" that the gameplay in the new Wolfenstein is incredibly problematic.

 

[danielberg]

No, it's because it's just a bunch of moaning about how there's breastfeeding and fat people in the game or whatever other trivial BS is triggering the person who made it. Hard to watch people being triggered.

But dude you and wolfenstein devs are currently the only ones moaning.
Was the "make america nazi free again" slogan and implication among other things too subtle for you? What? The people wo are masters in spotting dog wisthles everywhere including in milk and the ok signs suddenly blind?

 

[Rien]

I just woke up and I dont think I understand what’s wrong here... what was wrong with the game besides the gunplay?

 

[Stiflers Mom]

Everything is so complicated these days..
Why is it bad to kill Nazis in videogames now?

Why do people give a fuck?

And I say this as a German whose grandfather fought in WW2 on D-Day on the german side.

 

[danielberg]

Everything is so complicated these days..
Why is it bad to kill Nazis in videogames now?

It isnt no matter how many times this shit excuse is used and i suspect you know this.
Labeling trump voters as nazis and then playing stupid is really eye rolling.

 

[Rhysser]

But dude you and wolfenstein devs are currently the only ones moaning.
Was the "make america nazi free again" slogan and implication among other things too subtle for you? What? The people wo are masters in spotting dog wisthles everywhere including in milk and the ok signs suddenly blind?

Not sure how "Make America Nazi Free Again" means that republicans are Nazis. It ties it to politics for sure, but I did not take that to imply that somehow it is saying republicans are Nazis /shrug.

If that's the thing that's supposed to tie Nazis to republicans, it seems to me more like people reading too much into it. Since it's a republican slogan you might even think it's being said by a republican to someone who is therefore maybe not a republican.

Again, sounds like people are being way oversensitive if that's the thing that's bothering them.

 

[danielberg]

.

Dude you playing stupid thats your issue

 

[Stilton Disco]

Everything is so complicated these days..
Why is it bad to kill Nazis in videogames now?

Why do people give a fuck?

And I say this as a German whose grandfather fought in WW2 on D-Day on the german side.

Having actually looked into the claimed 'offence' people have to killing Nazis previously, it's either edgy teens shitposting to mock outrage culture, the tiny handful of neonazis that have always existed and are too small in number for anyone to give a shit about, or people annoyed at how the developers are clearly using the game to make a political statement by comparing anyone right of far left to the Nazis.

Theres a good reason people are getting pissed off with them and their sales are tanking, and it's nothing to do with normal people suddenly supporting histories most famous shit heads.

 

[Katsura]

You missed the episode where beth marketing tied their game to 2016 politics and nazis to republicans, and then invited fans to give them $60 because thats what good folks do: buy corporate products with progressive advertising to make the world better. I do find it funny that they ended up making the trumps richer by doing that as Donald’s brother is on the zenimax board and a major owner.

This. The issue is not with fighting nazis. The issue is that they more than hinted at equating nazis with Trump and his supporters. It's even more ridiculous since the modern version of the brown shirts are from the left - Antifa

 

[EviLore]

The New Colossus just wasn't very good, and Youngblood looks even worse. When the quality of your output degrades, take responsibility, don't externalize blame.

As for the real-world politics, well, it's not exactly subtle:

 

[Rhysser]

The New Colossus just wasn't very good, and Youngblood looks even worse. When the quality of your output degrades, take responsibility, don't externalize blame.

As for the real-world politics, well, it's not exactly subtle:

Oh god is that something they put out? Ok I definitely hadn't seen that. It's hilarity levels of poor judgement by them to do this. Though I'd probably still opt to complain about the republican to Nazi similarities, than the Nazi killing itself.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

or people annoyed at how the developers are clearly using the game to make a political statement by comparing anyone right of far left to the Nazis.

Theres a good reason people are getting pissed off with them and their sales are tanking, and it's nothing to do with normal people suddenly supporting histories most famous shit heads.

Didn't know about that context.
Thought people are getting upset about killing Hitler and SS soldiers in a videogame.

Okay, I can understand the problem now..

 

[HelpYouFall]

I dislike SJW's just as much as the next one, but did people in this thread genuinely compare them to the NSDAP? And even worse, make some arbitrary comparisons to make it seem like a viable statement.
Wow, that's some low effort shitposting if I ever saw it ...

 

[Orta]

Videogame developers really need to shut the fuck up with their political agendas being integrated into their products.

If I want to be told how and what to think I'll switch over to the cucks on cnn, and not be dictated to by a bunch of long haired fucking black t-shirt wearing computer nerds.

I'm glad the game is selling shit, fucking tossers.

 

[The_Mike]

The problem isn't killing the nazis.

The problem is you turned a decades familiar protagonist who's macho and cool, and turned him into a self-hating bitch.

 

[Tesseract]

saw this one coming a mile away

said my peace and then put dem binoculars on

 

[Business]

Everything is so complicated these days..
Why is it bad to kill Nazis in videogames now?
Why do people give a fuck?

And I say this as a German whose grandfather fought in WW2 on D-Day on the german side.

The gloryfication of killing WWII German soldiers in the biggest numbers and cruelest ways has been accepted for many years already in all forms of media. The issue with this particular game seems to be that besides this, it also does its best to shove far left values into the players to a point where it honestly feels like a parody.



I laughed to tears watching this, then reading the game creators saying they tried to make the best story possible and blame their customers wrong morals to justify the lack of success of their game is just incredible and hilarious.

 

[oagboghi2]

SJW’s are the 21st Century Nazi equivalent.

to

Not sure how "Make America Nazi Free Again" means that republicans are Nazis. It ties it to politics for sure, but I did not take that to imply that somehow it is saying republicans are Nazis /shrug.

If that's the thing that's supposed to tie Nazis to republicans, it seems to me more like people reading too much into it. Since it's a republican slogan you might even think it's being said by a republican to someone who is therefore maybe not a republican.

Again, sounds like people are being way oversensitive if that's the thing that's bothering them.

You're playing stupid to defend what the developers did.

Machine Games have every right to insult their audience. That audience has the same right to keep their money.

 

[Rhysser]

to
You're playing stupid to defend what the developers did.

Machine Games have every right to insult their audience. That audience has the same right to keep their money.

Sorry I didn't realize how thin skinned people are. But I think a more convincing example than the slogan was posted anyway.

 

[oagboghi2]

Sorry I didn't realize how thin skinned people are. But I think a more convincing example than the slogan was posted anyway.

Your transparent attempt to play stupid made me laugh.

 

[Rhysser]

[snip]

Glad I was able to bring joy into your life in an otherwise cruel world where Bethesda video games are bringing you nothing but sad Nazi killing.

 

[Boss Mog]

They clearly were making a political statement with their advertising on social media. They used the "punch a nazi" slogan which is used by SJWs and extreme leftists to justify punching any and all people on the right that disagree with their lunacy. The game was full of SJW propaganda as well so they knew exactly what they were doing and the fact that they're playing dumb now is beyond pathetic.