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[Litan]

Perfect being the enemy of the Good.

The liberal movement personified and this is why we keep taking Ls worldwide.

Pushing for better instead of settling for the status quo. Its why we've made so much progress these last few decades.

 

[lightskintwin]

Frankly it doesn't matter what these characters were created to represent, it's what they evolved into representing. And I fail to see how modern Wonder Woman currently represents any of what you have laid out here. If we were to continuously judge a character based on their inception someone like Batman would be a considered a gun toting murderer.

Just because she represents that to you, doesn't mean she represents that for everybody else. How many people who oppose this have actually read the comics? As somebody said, they just see the same image that's been there for decades; a busty coke bottled shaped White woman with an American flag wrapped around as a bathing suit with knee high boots.

I can't see conservatives anywhere caring about this to any extent. But you're right, it's conjecture on my part.

But it smells to me like classic good intentions gone wrong for greater ideological purity.

That's why demographic data would be helpful. I'm not putting past liberalism, but i could see this be a bit more multi faceted.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Imagine if the UN was always so quick to deal with problematic gods.

Perfect being the enemy of the Good.

The liberal movement personified and this is why we keep taking Ls worldwide.

Pretty much.

 

[entremet]

Pushing for better instead of settling for the status quo. Its why we've made so much progress these last few decades.

You also need to walk before you run. It's not about settling, but how about starting?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Just because she represents that to you, doesn't mean she represents that for everybody else. How many people who oppose this have actually read the comics? As somebody said, they just see the same image that's been there for decades; a busty coke bottled shaped White woman with an American flag wrapped around as a bathing suit with knee high boots.

Ignorance is a terrible excuse. You shouldn't listen to people who are uneducated in what they're complaining about, that makes zero sense. Opinions aren't valid or logical simply because people have them, and uneducated opinions deserve to be challenged, not rewarded with change.

And again, this perpetuates the idea that it's alright to judge based on appearance and not personal character.

 

[yanipheonu]

Sorry to hear that.

... My mom got me my first comics because she grew up, before Wonder Woman, with Batgil. And Batgirl was pretty awesome.

Yvonne Craig was the best Batgirl. Pretty sure she was my first crush lol. Even now, she's amazing.

 

[shoreu]

Pushing for better instead of settling for the status quo. Its why we've made so much progress these last few decades.

I'm confused are we calling wonder woman status quo that's ridiculous. If your only saying this because she's white then its Bs. If you have an issue with her being a 6'3 and perfectly in shape goddess "she's a SUPERHERO" but that doesn't mean you can't aspire to have her ideals and morals.

 

[lightskintwin]

Ignorance is a terrible excuse. You shouldn't listen to people who are uneducated in what they're complaining about, that makes zero sense.

And again, it perpetuates the idea that it's alright to judge based on appearance and not personal character.

But that's why I brought up context along with that image of Wonder woman. It all goes together. The problem when you're arguing in a vacuum is you miss all these other issues compounded along with it that created a certain segment to be opposed to it and distill it down to something simplistic and respond to it simplistically.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

But that's why I brought up context along with that image of Wonder woman. It all goes together. The problem when you're arguing in a vacuum is you miss all these other issues compounded along with it that created a certain segment to be opposed to it and distill it down to something simplistic and respond to it simplistically.

I'm not missing them, I'm deeming the ones complaining about her figure invalid because it's obvious that the people claiming what you're saying are saying it from a place of ignorance and are judging a character based on things irrelevant to the conversation. It's like racists who say Obama is a horrible President, and when pushed to give examples why, they have no answer. Because all they're doing is judging him on his looks and have never bothered educating themselves on his actions to improve the country.

People who have no idea who Wonder Woman is outside of how she looks shouldn't even be acknowledged in a debate on if she's a good representative of the UN or not. Because the reasons of why she was picked as an ambassador have zero to do with how she looks.

Imagine if this was a real person, who had done a lot of good for the world, undeniably helped people, and people criticised the pick because she had large breasts and a thin waist and the people complaining never educated themselves on her accomplishments. Do you think that those are people who deserve to be listened to?

 

[Hari Seldon]

I don't even understand what the hell an honorary ambassador is and why we need fake people to fill these positions. Just find a real scientist lady or something. This and angry birds makes the UN look ridiculous and these positions completely meaningless in my eyes.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm not missing them, I'm deeming the ones complaining about her figure invalid because it's obvious that the people claiming what you're saying are saying it from a place of ignorance and judging a character based on things irrelevant to the conversation. It's like racists who say Obama is a horrible President, and when pushed to answer why, they have no answer. Because all they're doing is judging him on his looks and have never bothered educating themselves on his actions to improve the country.

People who have no idea who Wonder Woman is outside of how she looks shouldn't even be acknowledged in a debate on if she's a good representative of the UN or not. Because the reasons of why she was picked as an ambassador have zero to do with how she looks.

Imagine if this was a real person, who had done a lot of good for the world, undeniably helped people, and people criticised the pick because she had large breasts and never educated themselves on her accomplishments. Do you think that those are people who deserve to be listened to?

Man, you made a really awful argument with the Obama example and distilled it down to just ignorance despite the effort I went into about context. People have been exposed to Wonder Woman even at merely a surface level, and there's a certain segment of people who don't think she's a good enough representative to be an honorary ambassador for the UN for all woman. You disagree, apparently the UN agreed with those other people.

Your beef is with the UN.

 

[chillybright]

The timing makes it hard for me to not think it as a PR stunt.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

well this sure is a headline

"UN drops Wonder Woman over her looks"
https://twitter.com/i/moments/808691573944885248

://///

i hate spin. nothing is ever presented fairly.

 

[Kinyou]

I don't even understand what the hell an honorary ambassador is and why we need fake people to fill these positions. Just find a real scientist lady or something. This and angry birds makes the UN look ridiculous and these positions completely meaningless in my eyes.

I imagine in both those instances the companies were footing the bills for the events etc. Also a sure fire way to make the news. So why not do this honorary stuff if it has a chance to raise awareness?

It's also not like honorary positions are limited. If they didn't give it to some scientist lady before they wont do it now either.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Man, you made a really awful argument with the Obama example and distilled it down to just ignorance despite the effort I went into about context. People have been exposed to Wonder Woman even at merely a surface level, and there's a certain segment of people who don't think she's a good enough representative to be an honorary ambassador for the UN for all woman. You disagree, apparently the UN agreed with those other people.

It's not a horrible example. In both situations, despite the fact that they could educate themselves, people are deeming someone unfit for their title based on surface level judgement because they don't care to examine the person on their character or actions. There are people who only expose themselves to Obama at a surface level and hold untrue opinions on him based on how he looks.

They're remarkably similar situations.

And my beef is with both. I should be upset at people for getting mad about things they don't bother educating themselves on, and I should be upset at the UN for listening to those people and giving ignorance power.

I also think it's pretty unfair to automatically assume that thr UN agrees with them. In this day and age it's easier to bend to the will of people than it is to stand your ground.

 

[lightskintwin]

It's not a horrible example. In both situations, despite the fact that they could educate themselves, people are deeming someone unfit for their title based on surface level judgement because they don't care to examine the person on their character or actions.

They're remarkably similar situations.

The only similarities is White Supremacy, one being a reaction to a Black man in the highest office; and the other fighting against it as a representation of all women.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I imagine in both those instances the companies were footing the bills for the events etc. Also a sure fire way to make the news. So why not do this honorary stuff if it has a chance to raise awareness?

It's also not like honorary positions are limited. If they didn't give it to some scientist lady before they wont do it now either.

The only thing I see this being useful for is to "raise awareness" for the new Wonder Woman movie. This is a massive marketing boon for the movie and I question if it has any other uses at all.

Maybe highlighting a real woman that not many people know about would do a lot more good then co-marketing hollywood movies.

 

[Garlador]

Men get movies and TV shows, women get TV shows.

AND movies. Big ones too.

That's because historically female representation in comics (and the comic industry) has been unbelievably bad. The same is true for movies.

Right, and it's consistently improved since then. It's better than it has ever been and is still steadily improving.

The argument was that these characters were getting a big push. They're not. There's no Storm solo movie, she's not front and center of the Marvel universe, I'm not even sure she still has a solo series. How many of the characters you explicitly mentioned have a solo series running anyway?

Squirrel Girl, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye (female), Thor (female), Gwenpool, Jessica Jones, She-Hulk, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Wolverine (female), Iron Heart, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Batgirl, Superwoman, Wonder Woman, Mother Panic, Shade, Raven, and Green Lantern (female) all had solo titles released THIS MONTH. That excludes non-solo girl-centric books like Birds of Prey, Uncanny Avengers, and A-Team.

The only characters that come to mind are Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel, who are at least getting solo movies. Maybe Harley Quinn, given how extremely popular and successful the character is. I know the comic book industry is trying to reach out to female audiences, so if you were trying to say that in *general* there was a big push to get women into comics I might agree.

There is, and I think (fingers crossed) if Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel make bank, we'll see the floodgates open and get a ton more female-driven superhero films.

And hopefully not of the Catwoman or Elektra variety.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The only similarities is White Supremacy, one being a reaction to a Black man in the highest office; and the other fighting against it as a representation of all women.

Which has been one of the main points of debate throughout this whole thread and situation.

They're also similar because in both situations uneducated people are voicing uneducated opinions and expecting to have their opinion taken seriously.

 

[lightskintwin]

Which has been one of the main points of debate throughout this whole thread and situation.

They're also similar because in both situations uneducated people are voicing uneducated opinions and expecting to have their opinion taken seriously.

The uneducated part is where I have issue. I guarantee the people who have issue with Wonder Women are more educated than those who hate Obama merely because he's Black. You keep using content of character to shield Wonder Woman and divorcing her image, as if that in and of itself can't represent something people deem harmful or not representative of them.

 

[El Topo]

AND movies. Big ones too.

We were talking about superhero movies. You keep trying to sugarcoat the situation. Heck, you even bring up animated movies, movies that are not yet released and movies where the solo lead status is debatable, even if I would agree about TFA.

Squirrel Girl, Captain Marvel, Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye (female), Thor (female), Gwenpool, Jessica Jones, She-Hulk, Silk, Spider-Gwen, Wolverine (female), Iron Heart, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch, Supergirl, Harley Quinn, Batgirl, Superwoman, Wonder Woman, Mother Panic, Shade, Raven, and Green Lantern (female) all had solo titles released THIS MONTH. That excludes non-solo girl-centric books like Birds of Prey, Uncanny Avengers, and A-Team.

I asked about the characters you explicitly mentioned as examples of great original female characters, not about female characters in general. I'm decently aware of comic books, even if I do not purchase too many.
I will say though that I wasn't aware of Mother Panic, Shade, Raven or the Green Lantern one.

There is, and I think (fingers crossed) if Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel make bank, we'll see the floodgates open and get a ton more female-driven superhero films.

I hope so. I'm very sceptical though and not nearly as optimistic as others. After all it will have taken the industry leader (of comic book movies) 20 movies (and eleven years) to make one with a female solo lead.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

The uneducated part is where I have issue. I guarantee the people who have issue with Wonder Women are more educated than those who hate Obama merely because he's Black. You keep using content of character to shield Wonder Woman and divorcing her image, as if that in and of itself can't represent something people deem harmful.

If you deem it harmful you're part of the problem, especially in this situation. You're literally putting a female characters looks over her mind and ideals in a situation where she is being praised for her ideals. A woman should be able to dress however she wants and judged solely on her actions. Her image shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. She shouldn't need to have her thoughts and actions "Shield" how she looks because how she looks shouldn't be something that needs shielding because it's not important. That's the definition of sexism. This would not even be an issue if we were talking about a man who has made a career of dressing in a way that entices women.

Your point about being more educated about WW than Obama also seems pretty baseless. Comics are a niche medium and outside of a movie appearance last year, which showed absolutely none of what she's being praised for, she hasn't had any conduit to the public outside of a few cartoons and a TV show in the 70s. Obama is the biggest leader in the world. You have to go out of your way to not hear about what he's done. And I think most people who judge him on the color of his skin have heard what he's done and ignore it or claim that it's not the truth.

 

[OmegaX]

I still don't see how making him ethnically ambiguous blows his cover has a kid raised on a farm. Are we saying that other ethnic folks can't be raised on a farm?

He has to look somewhat like his Earth parents to pass as their biological child. They can't say he is adopted because it would be easy to expose that lie. Sure, he can be Mexican, black, even Nazi or Russian.

 

[Aceun]

Consider this my official bid for Kamala Khan.

 

[HellforLeather]

well this sure is a headline

"UN drops Wonder Woman over her looks"
https://twitter.com/i/moments/808691573944885248

://///

i hate spin. nothing is ever presented fairly.

I dont get it. Isnt that what exactly happened? Her looks werent acceptable to a group of people who decided to protest it.

 

[sleepykyo]

I don't even understand what the hell an honorary ambassador is and why we need fake people to fill these positions. Just find a real scientist lady or something. This and angry birds makes the UN look ridiculous and these positions completely meaningless in my eyes.

Publicity? Angry Birds got it for a day. DC got some prestige while UN got some association with Wonder Woman at a high point.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Consider this my official bid for Kamala Khan.

Her readership is less than half of the people who protested this. She's not even in the top thousand list.

Now Emma Frost...

 

[Chococat]

I can't see conservatives anywhere caring about this to any extent. But you're right, it's conjecture on my part.

But it smells to me like classic good intentions gone wrong for greater ideological purity.

Meh. As I said, I'm torn on this. Representation for women is good. But WW has such a checkered past, questionable patriotic design, and being a white, and scantily clad- I can see how it would be offensive to other women around the world.

Some women firmly believe in the patriarchal model, dislike America for good reasons, are not white/ have had cultures that suffered under white imperialist rule, and believe women should dress modestly. Her modern interpretation is a good progressive role model, despite her origins, but she does not represent all women in the world.

Many simple see her American clade white superheroine that defers to men. Not the Roman/Greek Goddess who is the champion of a matriarchal society that fights for justice and equality.

It says more about truth of human society than it does about Wonder Women. Women on the whole are not seen as equals to men around the world. And it gets worse when you go down the color scale from white to black.

At least men of color can look back to history to see examples where their male ancestors were at the top of the world. Women of any race have no societies they can look back on and be proud of. Sure, there are hiccups in history of a few women rising to the top. But history the world has been controlled and governed by male ideals since the beginning.

Comics and society are making progress- but we are a long ways away from the equality some posters here think exists in the real world. Comics are fantasy.

In the real world, were still arguing about equal pay for equal work while ignoring the old boys system entrenched in businesses around the world. Feminism is a dirt word. We haven't come close to true equality a western society yet and males are pushing back claiming they are victims of prejudice.

 

[RockTurtle]

Her readership is less than half of the people who protested this. She's not even in the top thousand list.

Now Emma Frost...

i'd support it

 

[lightskintwin]

If you deem it harmful you're part of the problem, especially in this situation. You're literally putting a female characters looks over her mind and ideals in a situation where she is being praised for her ideals. A woman should be able to dress however she wants and judged solely on her actions. Her image shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. She shouldn't need to have her thoughts and actions "Shield" how she looks because how she looks shouldn't be something that needs shielding. That's the definition of sexism.

Your point about being more educated about WW than Obama also seems pretty baseless. Comics are a niche medium and outside of a movie appearance last year, which showed absolutely none of what she's being praised for, she hasn't had any conduit to the public outside of a few cartoons and a TV show in the 70s.

No I meant more educated in general. LOL

You're crazy if you don't believe Wonder Woman's imagery hasn't been in the mainstream for decades. The majority of people who know who Wonder Woman never read a comic book, yet alone a Wonder Woman comic book.

Wonder Woman is not a real person. She's a fictional character that was specifically drawn that way. Don't for one instance not believe that imagery doesn't represent anything either. Such as idealized beauty, strength, American exceptionalism, the male idea of how woman empowerment should look like, etc...

 

[Tosyn_88]

He has to look somewhat like his Earth parents to pass as their biological child. They can't say he is adopted because it would be easy to expose that lie. Sure, he can be Mexican, black, even Nazi or Russian.

I suppose making alternative versions of a character seem to be what people immediately think of. That doesn't work for an alien that's supposed to come from far away. Especially one that's trying to protect humanity, if he's from London, then let's him from London and take all the repercussions with it. There's a reason captain America will never be considered for roles like a UN one even though he's essentially the same character as superman. It's important to try and see things from a broad perspective than just American because we have to take responsibility for what we put out there especially when they have consequences

 

[Prototype Viktor]

It's based on Greek mythology. Gal Godot is probably a good representation for that region.

The island is still in the Bermuda triangle. Doesn't matter if you're free if you live in a tropical place you will get darker the longer you live there from sun exposure. Unless they just stay inside all the time or constantly doing male fantasy shit like rubbing sunscreen on each other

 

[Tosyn_88]

Meh. As I said, I'm torn on this. Representation for women is good. But WW has such a checkered past, questionable patriotic design, and being a white, and scantily clad- I can see how it would be offensive to other women around the world.

Some women firmly believe in the patriarchal model, dislike America for good reasons, are not white/ have had cultures that suffered under white imperialist rule, and believe women should dress modestly. Her modern interpretation is a good progressive role model, despite her origins, but she does not represent all women in the world.

Many simple see her American clade white superheroine that defers to men. Not the Roman/Greek Goddess who is the champion of a matriarchal society that fights for justice and equality.

It says more about truth of human society than it does about Wonder Women. Women on the whole are not seen as equals to men around the world. And it gets worse when you go down the color scale from white to black.

At least men of color can look back to history to see examples where their male ancestors were at the top of the world. Women of any race have no societies they can look back on and be proud of. Sure, there are hiccups in history of a few women rising to the top. But history the world has been controlled and governed by male ideals since the beginning.

Comics and society are making progress- but we are a long ways away from the equality some posters here think exists in the real world. Comics are fantasy.

In the real world, were still arguing about equal pay for equal work while ignoring the old boys system entrenched in businesses around the world. Feminism is a dirt word. We haven't come close to true equality a western society yet and males are pushing back claiming they are victims of prejudice.

This!!!! Everyone should read this!! N if you still font get it, it's ok, Its an ongoing discussion and I don't fault for not getting it right away.

 

[Garlador]

We were talking about superhero movies. You keep trying to sugarcoat the situation. Heck, you even bring up animated movies, movies that are not yet released and movies where the solo lead status is debatable, even if I would agree about TFA.

Well, I wasn't sure if you were generalizing.

I mean, we've had superheroine films before... They just, well... They were Supergirl, Catwoman, Elektra, Tank Girl, Barb Wire, Aeon Flux... No argument from me; Hollywood has consistently dropped the ball on female superheroines time and time again, either by not making their movies, or making them and screwing them up.

But we've no shortage of big and successful female action leads in franchise ranging from Tomb Raider to Resident Evil to Underworld to Terminator to Kill Bill to Aliens to the Hunger Games.

So, yeah. Marvel needs to get us a great Black Widow movie, a She-Hulk film, a Squirrel Girl comedy, and a Storm movie WOULD be nice (starving orphaned African thief rises up to become worshiped as a goddess before joining the X-men to save the world? Sounds great to me!).

I asked about the characters you explicitly mentioned as examples of great original female characters, not about female characters in general. I'm decently aware of comic books, even if I do not purchase too many.
I will say though that I wasn't aware of Mother Panic, Shade, Raven or the Green Lantern one.

Well, I mentioned Starfire, Raven, Black Canary, Big Barda, Storm, Rogue, Black Cat, Scarlet Witch.
Of those, Raven, Scarlet Witch, Black Canary, and Starfire have had solo comics this year. Storm had her own comic in 2014. Black Cat last held a solo book in 2010. Rogue last held a book in 2004, but is currently field leader of the Avengers Unity Squad. Big Barda has never held a solo book, as she's a tag-team heroine with her husband Mister Miracle and DC is still trying to figure out if the New Gods even work in the New 52 universe yet...

I hope so. I'm very sceptical though and not nearly as optimistic as others. After all it will have taken the industry leader (of comic book movies) 20 movies (and eleven years) to make one with a female solo lead.

Excluding the ones they made that nobody liked.

Marvel Studios proper, though? Really, no excuse. I'm with you fully. I can't believe we got a Doctor Strange movie before a Black Widow or Captain Marvel film.

 

[Guileless]

Large breasted white woman with impossible proportions?

I knew there must be an Israel connection for so many UN people to care about something so trivial. How's the weather in Aleppo?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

No I meant more educated in general. LOL

You're crazy if you don't believe Wonder Woman's imagery hasn't been in the mainstream for decades. The majority of people who know who Wonder Woman never read a comic book, yet alone a Wonder Woman comic book.

Wonder Woman is not a real person. She's a fictional character that was specifically drawn that way. Don't for one instance not believe that imagery doesn't represent anything either. Such as idealized beauty, strength, American exceptionalism, the male idea of how woman empowerment should look like, etc...

Looks can represent something but that doesn't mean that how even a character looks should over shadow their actions. Again, this is a problem exclusive to women when talking about gender. Breast implants and other plastic surgery represent idealized beauty, but that doesn't suddenly mean I should view that womans looks as more important than her throughts and opinions.

And yes, her imagry has been in the mainstream for decades, but it's almost always been exclusively that, imagry. Very little of what has made it to the main stream has been anything of substance about her character.

Most people who know who Wonder Woman is probably couldn't tell me very much about her actions or character, but even people who disagree with Obama have at least a cursory knowledge of where he stands on some issues. That knowledge might be skewed in a certain way because of the media but I guarantee that if you went out on the street and ask people to tell you either an Obama policy or a Wonder Woman storyline that represents her as a character, you would almost definitely come out with more people knowing where Obama stands on some issues.

 

[Lashley]

People really will whine over anything

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I'm just saying both Superman and Wonder Woman are essentially invulnerable, only one of them wears short skirts, or previously tight short shorts and tube tops


vs

Lul, it doesn't mention his pants because of course! Why can't Superman outfit be sleeveless shirt and swimming trunks. He's neigh unbeatable he could wear anything because Clark Kent is a square and would also never wear it

 

[lightskintwin]

Looks can represent something but that doesn't mean that how even a character looks should over shadow their actions. Again, this is a problem exclusive to women when talking about gender. Breast implants and other plastic surgery represent idealized beauty, but that doesn't suddenly mean I should view that womans looks as more important than her throughts and opinions.

And yes, her imagry has been in the mainstream for decades, but it's almost always been exclusively that, imagry. Very little of what has made it to the main stream has been anything of substance about her character.

Most people who know who Wonder Woman is probably couldn't tell me very much about her actions or character, but even people who disagree with Obama have at least a cursory knowledge of where he stands on some issues. That knowledge might be skewed in a certain way because of the media but I guarantee that if you went out on the street and ask people to tell you either an Obama policy or a Wonder Woman storyline, you would almost definitely come out with more people knowing where Obama stands on some issues.

Man, drop the awful analogy to Obama. I don't think people's issues with Wonder Woman are derived from not reading her comic book. LOL It's bigger than that.

For the record, I like Wonder Woman and can see her as an ambassador for women. I'm also a Black American Man too and have always grown up with that image so it's normalized for me. For other women and people from other countries, perhaps that's not the case and whatever issues they have with Wonder Woman are much more glaringly obvious to them than somebody like me and you.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Man, drop the awful analogy to Obama. I don't think people's issues with Wonder Woman are derived from not reading her comic book. LOL It's bigger than that.

For the record, I like Wonder Woman and can see her as an ambassador for women. I'm also a Black American Man too and have always grown up with that image so it's normalized for me. For other women and people from other countries, perhaps that's not the case and whatever issues they have with Wonder Woman are much more glaringly obvious to them than somebody like me and you.

First off, I didn't mean to imply that I thought that you had an issue with this. If you thought that I apologize.

As for you other points, I think it is an issue of not reading and understanding her character. Whatever issues they might have could very well come from ignorance of the character and judgement of her based on her appearance. I simply do not think that people who are ignorant to a subject deserve to have their opinion listened to about that subject. People who are ignorant of global warming have some wild ideas about how it doesn't really exist and is a conspiracy or some other such nonsense. Whatever issues they see with the concept of global warming are glaringly obvious to them, but that doesn't mean that their issues are reasonable or logical to people who took the time to educate themselves on the concept.

Either that or they do know everything about the character and still put more value (Positively or negatively) on her looks than her actions, which is something else I see as unreasonable and unacceptable.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

What's Moon Girl got to do with FFXV?

I was half tired and read it as Luna.

 

[lightskintwin]

First off, I didn't mean to imply that I thought that you had an issue with this. If you thought that I apologize.

As for you other points, I think it is an issue of not reading and understanding her character. Whatever issues they might have could very well come from ignorance of the character and judgement of her based on her appearance. I simply do not think that people who are ignorant to a subject deserve to have their opinion listened to about that subject. People who are ignorant of global warming have some wild ideas about how it doesn't really exist and is a conspiracy or some other such nonsense. Whatever issues they see with the concept of global warming are glaringly obvious to them, but that doesn't mean that their issues are reasonable or logical to people who took the time to educate themselves on the concept.

No need to apologize, I don't think you implied that; I was just setting the record straight with my personal opinion. LOL

You keep making false equivalencies to being uneducated to political issues that unfortunately don't help your argument.

I don't think it's that difficult to understand why some people dislike the imagery of Wonder Woman as an honorary ambassador for women in the United Nations.

 

[Bruce Springsteen]

via Reuters






Original thread announcing the initiative

I actually don't have a problem with this decision, just look at the fact a super model is playing her in the movies, that isn't exactly the ideal character for women. People can claim she represents whatever the hell they want, but all one has to do is look at the facts and see how she is portrayed as looking in movies and comic books. Tall, thin, beautiful, white. Is this a representation of what the UN stands for? This was a decision that needed to be made.

 

[Tosyn_88]

First off, I didn't mean to imply that I thought that you had an issue with this. If you thought that I apologize.

As for you other points, I think it is an issue of not reading and understanding her character. Whatever issues they might have could very well come from ignorance of the character and judgement of her based on her appearance. I simply do not think that people who are ignorant to a subject deserve to have their opinion listened to about that subject. People who are ignorant of global warming have some wild ideas about how it doesn't really exist and is a conspiracy or some other such nonsense. Whatever issues they see with the concept of global warming are glaringly obvious to them, but that doesn't mean that their issues are reasonable or logical to people who took the time to educate themselves on the concept.

Either that or they do know everything about the character and still put more value (Positively or negatively) on her looks than her actions, which is something else I see as unreasonable and unacceptable.

By completely ignoring them, you close a bridge where understanding can happen thereby creating a group of people who can grow with thier ignorance and eventually come to haunt everyone. Closing off a discuss is what breathes extremists

 

[Zen_Arcade]

No need to apologize, I don't think you implied that; I was just setting the record straight with my personal opinion. LOL

You keep making false equivalencies to being uneducated to political issues that unfortunately don't help your argument.

I don't think it's that difficult to understand why some people dislike the imagery of Wonder Woman as an honorary ambassador for women in the United Nations.

Sorry, you havent done a very good job at explaining why they're false equivalencies.

By completely ignoring them, you close a bridge where understanding can happen thereby creating a group of people who can grow with thier ignorance and eventually come to haunt everyone. Closing off a discuss is what breathes extremists

I don't mean ignoring them completely. You do your best to try to educate uneducated people. I meant ignore them when it comes time to make a decision.

 

[PSqueak]

Personally i always found weird to pick fictional characters for this sort of thing.

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

Nicola Scott has much more to say on this:

Absolutely, real life women can and should hold roles for female empowerment and equality for the U.N. But the "honorary" embassador role is strictly created for fictional characters. Why can't we have both? Fictional characters have the ability to cross boarders and boundaries that real people can't. They're universally accessible and can be reformed as needed. Wonder Woman was created for female empowerment during WWII but these petitioners are fixating on a 70's or 90's version. 75 years of power and progress and they've reduced her to pretty lady in a bathing suit. Way to strip her of her power and position, just another woman who's lost her job. I created the art for the U.N. with a full understanding of who she is and how much reach she has and what she means to millions of people. The purpose of this initiative was so incredibly positive, with the best of intentions and knowing how perfectly Diana fit into this role. Personally I find it a shame but I'm really disappointed we won't get the full roll out if the plan. Way to suck the potential fun and accessibility out of an important issue.

 

[lightskintwin]

Sorry, you havent done a very good job at explaining why they're false equivalencies.

You keep using being educated on who Wonder Woman is, as opposed to people having issue of what Wonder Woman represents, and more importantly, within the larger context of the real world.

 

[Tosyn_88]

Personally i always found weird to pick fictional characters for this sort of thing.

Because they have a powerful reach and they represent an idea. We can deny it all we want but these fictional icons make an impression on kids and they grow with them

 

[jay]

If you deem it harmful you're part of the problem, especially in this situation. You're literally putting a female characters looks over her mind and ideals in a situation where she is being praised for her ideals. A woman should be able to dress however she wants and judged solely on her actions. Her image shouldn't even be an issue in the first place. She shouldn't need to have her thoughts and actions "Shield" how she looks because how she looks shouldn't be something that needs shielding because it's not important. That's the definition of sexism. This would not even be an issue if we were talking about a man who has made a career of dressing in a way that entices women.

This is basically the argument people on the gaming side use for why sexist male views of beauty for women are good and positive. At least I know I am probably uneducated if I disagree with you.