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[CHC]

The lack of updates is what killed the game for me. Just give me fresh raids every few months and I'm happy.

It's more that they will do literally anything to de-incentivize everything but the latest raid. Once a new patch comes out, the old stuf is instantly a ghost town becaue they add some trivialized way to get loot that is better than the previous raids could provide. If there was actually some kind of real progression to achieve they wouldn't even need to release content that often. When raids were (by default) somewhat harder and really demanded at least some amount of previous-tier equipment, the whole system tended to work itself out a lot better.

It's all based around artificial difficulty levels now - LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic, etc. It's just the same shit with some new mechanics thrown in. For most people finishing a raid is finishing a raid - there's a sense of completion. Only the truly hardcore will KEEP doing it over and over on increasing levels of difficulty.

What they have now is not a good system, and when coupled with the fact that there is really no reason to EVER leave the cities, it's no wonder the game feels dead.

 

[pantsmith]

Saying 5.5 million people paying to play the same game each month is "a dead game" is probably fun to say, but entirely divorced from reality.

Blizzard has already revealed they are well aware of the fact that users pay to play new content, and then leave to other games that aren't ten years old during content droughts. And rightfully so!

 

[ApharmdX]

Saying 5.5 million people paying $15 dollars to play the same game each month is "a dead game" is probably fun to say, but entirely divorced from reality.

There isn't 5.5 million people paying $15/month. The actual number is less than half of that.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

It's more that they will do literally anything to de-incentivize everything but the latest raid. Once a new patch comes out, the old stuf is instantly a ghost town becaue they add some trivialized way to get loot that is better than the previous raids could provide. If there was actually some kind of real progression to achieve they wouldn't even need to release content that often. When raids were (by default) somewhat harder and really demanded at least some amount of previous-tier equipment, the whole system tended to work itself out a lot better.

It's all based around artificial difficulty levels now - LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic, etc. It's just the same shit with some new mechanics thrown in. For most people finishing a raid is finishing a raid - there's a sense of completion. Only the truly hardcore will KEEP doing it over and over on increasing levels of difficulty.

What they have now is not a good system, and when coupled with the fact that there is really no reason to EVER leave the cities, it's no wonder the game feels dead.

The fact that no one leaves the cities is a huge problem. Of course, they "fixed" that in WoD so that now we just never leave the garrisons.

The game desperately needs, IMO, to give players access to the important facilities (mail, AH, etc) while out and about. When the things players use constantly are all in a single place, of course that's the only place they hang out.

 

[Lain]

That bump and decline of WoD on the charts represents exactly my feelings about that expansion.
I really hope they show they learned their lesson from all the missteps they made in WoD.

 

[Straight Edge]

There isn't 5.5 million people paying $15/month. The actual number is less than half of that.

Half of that is still $37 million per MONTH in sub revenue. That is almost half a billion $ per year.

 

[CHC]

The fact that no one leaves the cities is a huge problem. Of course, they "fixed" that in WoD so that now we just never leave the garrisons.

The game desperately needs, IMO, to give players access to the important facilities (mail, AH, etc) while out and about. When the things players use constantly are all in a single place, of course that's the only place they hang out.

It no longer feels like a game of cooperative adventure and occasional PvP, it just feels like a weird factory or office building where everyone is there to do their work and anything you try to do will only get in the way of that.

But yeah, of all the things they've conceded to over the years I'm surprised we don't have remote AH access. It would actually have a good effect at this point because it would allow people to run around and do whatever. But in reality, as long as dungeon queues teleport you, people will NEVER leave the most convenient place, be it the garrisons or the cities. But that's not something they're ever going to change.

 

[kswiston]

All of these threads that go on about WoW being dead (ignoring the fact that 5.5M is still probably the largest MMO by far outside of stuff confined to Asia) seem to gloss over the fact that this is a 12 year old game. I'm surprised they have been able to hold on to even half of their peak user numbers this far out.

When WoW was released, the call of Duty series consisted of 1 game and a console spin-off. Black Ops 3 is COD 12.

So youre saying only $37 million a month in sub revenue.

Where do you get $37M a month. Also the other half don't play for free.

 

[Pizza]

I'd happily pay the price for each expansion if there wasn't a monthly fee and if the in game store wasn't so insane with the prices. I really like WoW but I always have fluctuated a ton with how much I play, and my inconsistency isn't worth $15/month


If it were free to play? I'd be in hard. I'd probably drop cash in the in game store too

 

[FunkyPajamas]

Does this mean they can spare a few developers to work on StarCraft: Ghost?

 

[Schryver]

lol at stopping putting out numbers

 

[Berordn]

Does this mean they can spare a few developers to work on StarCraft: Ghost?

why would they spare developers on a game they finally confirmed was cancelled

 

[Maintenance]

No more numbers? Damn.

 

[pantsmith]

There isn't 5.5 million people paying $15/month. The actual number is less than half of that.

Yes, you're right. I'm generalizing. My intention was "5.5 million people paying a subscription game", not accurate revenue. Will edit for clarification.

 

[Chocolate Thunder]

Well we will have to wait until Legion as WoD seems to just have been a filler expansion.

 

[Xamtheking]

I think the call to stop providing numbers is more alarming than the numbers themselves

 

[Interfectum]

That bump and decline of WoD on the charts represents exactly my feelings about that expansion.
I really hope they show they learned their lesson from all the missteps they made in WoD.

WoD really felt like a WoW 2.0 event and, as you can see, many people felt the same way. The unprecedented bumped means Blizzard marketing did their job and convinced people to come back, the unprecedented drop shows the dev team failed to deliver. I doubt we see an increase like that again.

 

[Heigic]

WoW has been losing about 2.5m subs each expansion since Wrath. WoD was bad but it seems like it is going to lose the same amount. It just got to that point very quickly.

 

[phyrlord]

I could see Blizzard revamping the game with a WoW HD, up the graphics and just fix a lot of bullshit engine stuff still hanging around from old days.

I'd totally play again if I could revisit the old zones in proper HD with new models and better textures. Roaming through Durotar would be awesome with decent terrain modelling.

Haha have you played WoW recently? in 2011/2012 they redid ALL the zones in the vanilla WOW, including redoing like a 1000 quests... Also in the last exp they redid ALL the models... it is HD wow...

 

[Berordn]

Haha have you played WoW recently? in 2011/2012 they redid ALL the zones in the vanilla WOW, including redoing like a 1000 quests... Also in the last exp they redid ALL the models... it is HD wow...

Most of the terrain is untouched and still uses Vanilla textures. Cata cleaned up the questing but only the new zones are really up to par graphically, and even those are looking dated nowadays.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Almost like Warlords of Draenor's egregious time gating and complete lack of updating is making people leave.

I still play because I listen to a lot of podcasts and HFC is pretty fun

 

[diamount]

I know you guys are on the 'wow is still making crazy money' game but of course Blizzard are still concerned, why else would they diversify so late in the game?

 

[meanspartan]

It's dead, let it go.

Yes, more subscribers in its decline than any other paid MMO ever is "Dead".

Please. WoW continues to be a historic success and will obviously still be profitable, we just can't expect the same attention to be paid to it as in the past in regards to biannual expansions and such.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Also you hardly have to pay monthly anymore with the tokens existing.

Get the Inn, get a bunch of treasure hunting guys, then you can rack up quite a lot of money in a month. My sub ends on the 2nd and I already have 25k gold after spending 33k on a token last month on like the 30th...

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I used to be very seriously into an MMO when I was in high school. I played every single day, for hours a day. When I wasn't playing, I was thinking about playing, deciding what I would do when I logged back on, and making mental goals and notes for what I wanted to do in the next couple of weeks.

In this time, I didn't play any other video games. My MMO felt "real", where the time I invested had a permanent impact on my play experience. The sense of achievement was very real. Everything else felt like a waste of time. Why should I play anything else when I can play my MMO?

Then, eventually, I just got tired of it. The sense of pride and accomplishment I had over my account had dwindled. It felt like a waste of time. Why should I play an MMO when I can play everything else?

And I never went back. The model simply does not appeal to me anymore. No matter the price or the brand or the appeal, I'll stick with games I can complete.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

WOW. That latest expansion must be horrible. Maybe shift focus back onto Diablo 3?

It doesn't matter any more. Any "fixes" to the problems are them (yet again) eating their seed corn for retention.

The upsell from the store must be pah-retty good to state they're no longer going to state subs henceforth, though; the last time they even up and done this was during Wrath when the numbers were flatlining for the first time in their history.

 

[Felspawn]

Just like with Pandaria they give these huge gaps between patchs. you'd think they would have leared with 1+ years in Siege of Ogrimaar. Nope it'll be 1+ years in Hellfire Citadel too by the time the next Content Patch/Expansion lands. you're not going to attract anyone but the addicts at that point

 

[Ryaaan14]

Guldan is behind the sub drop and he'll be sorted out soon enough

 

[silvermember]

I see a lot of people coming up with reasons why WoW is declining. Blaming expansions and blah blah blah. All those things seem to be a symptom and not the cause.

Couldn't it be more likely that after 10 years of playing the same game, people are moving on? They might come back for an expansion or two but ultimately realize that they have moved on?

 

[fester]

It's weird that there's no official Vanilla and WoTLK servers yet. I think that would be a relatively cheap way to bring back some subscribers.

You get a lot of hate directed your way if you make that statement publicly. Apparently one person at Blizzard one time said they'd never make a classic server. Never mind the fact that countless other things that Blizzard said they'd "never" do they actually implemented. For some reason giving people this choice makes a lot of other people upset. Personally, it's the only thing that would bring me back - I absolutely hate the post-cataclysm world.

 

[Oxn]

I used to be very seriously into an MMO when I was in high school. I played every single day, for hours a day. When I wasn't playing, I was thinking about playing, deciding what I would do when I logged back on, and making mental goals and notes for what I wanted to do in the next couple of weeks.

In this time, I didn't play any other video games. My MMO felt "real", where the time I invested had a permanent impact on my play experience. The sense of achievement was very real. Everything else felt like a waste of time. Why should I play anything else when I can play my MMO?

Then, eventually, I just got tired of it. The sense of pride and accomplishment I had over my account had dwindled. It felt like a waste of time. Why should I play an MMO when I can play everything else?

And I never went back. The model simply does not appeal to me anymore. No matter the price or the brand or the appeal, I'll stick with games I can complete.

Lol this was exactly like me, except i was in college instead.

When i wasnt playing, all i would do is think of what i would do once i logged in, min maxing all that stuff. It literally consumed all my thoughts.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

I feel like people would go back to Vanilla for about a month before realizing the grind in Vanilla was a fucking nightmare

 

[meanspartan]

You get a lot of hate directed your way if you make that statement publicly. Apparently one person at Blizzard one time said they'd never make a classic server. Never mind the fact that countless other things that Blizzard said they'd "never" do they actually implemented. For some reason giving people this choice makes a lot of other people upset. Personally, it's the only thing that would bring me back - I absolutely hate the post-cataclysm world.

The second they add Vanilla servers, a bunch of players would jump on thinking it is what they wanted.

Then they'd demand "just" this change to modernize the game. Then another change. Then another. And another. Eventually the game is going to be back to where it is now, but with only Vanilla content.

People don't actually want vanilla servers. They want to be in that time and place again where WoW was something special and new and growing crazy fast. But you can't go home again.

Molten Core is shit compared to most raids that came after. Nobody actually wants to do that brutal 50-60 grind anymore. Do you really want to walk from place to place until level 40? How about weapon type skill levels? And so on, and so forth. People would abandon classic servers as quickly as they joined them because for all the shit they give recent expansions, they love the quality of life changes that have accumulated over ten years of WoW.

I personally think they should exist not for serious gameplay, but for historical preservation. It's wild to me that non-Cataclysm Azeroth is just gone now. It should exist as a digital museum of sorts.

I feel like people would go back to Vanilla for about a month before realizing the grind in Vanilla was a fucking nightmare

Haha the TL;DR of what I wrote.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

So what you're saying is WoW has blown its WoD

I didn't even recall there was another expansion announced already.

 

[ProfessorMoran]

What's their problem with providing subscriber numbers? Unless it's going free to play, subscriber numbers still matter.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Blizzcon is in just a couple days too.

 

[Suzushiiro]

But really, though, at this point there's so much WoW money from non-sub sources (most notably the WoW token) that sub numbers alone aren't a particularly good indication of how much money the game is making, which is what investors actually care about. At this point the primary use of WoW sub updates is to enable people to rant about how their pet issue is clearly the sole reason why subscriptions are declining.

 

[fester]

The second they add Vanilla servers, a bunch of players would jump on thinking it is what they wanted.

Then they'd demand "just" this change to modernize the game. Then another change. Then another. And another. Eventually the game is going to be back to where it is now, but with only Vanilla content.

People don't actually want vanilla servers. They want to be in that time and place again where WoW was something special and new and growing crazy fast. But you can't go home again.

Molten Core is shit compared to most raids that came after. Nobody actually wants to do that brutal 50-60 grind anymore. Do you really want to walk from place to place until level 40? How about weapon type skill levels? And so on, and so forth. People would abandon classic servers as quickly as they joined them because for all the shit they give recent expansions, they love the quality of life changes that have accumulated over ten years of WoW.

I personally think they should exist not for serious gameplay, but for historical preservation. It's wild to me that non-Cataclysm Azeroth is just gone now. It should exist as a digital museum of sorts.



Haha the TL;DR of what I wrote.

You're kind of proving my point by presuming to know what I really want.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

Like, have you ever gone back to Vanilla raids and seen how simplistic those fights are? Molten Core bosses are just trash mobs with 1-2 abilities and they have no shittalk.

Really I think people just want the community of Vanilla and that feeling of having a massive world to explore back. Which totally was amazing, to be fair.

 

[Renekton]

The last 3 expansions have been utter shit. Such a shame.

MoP is good. WotLK is overrated!

 

[Freiya]

I don't think there'll ever be another subscription MMO as big as WoW.

Nope and it's really sad because free 2 play is horrible. What a horrible, horrible, horrible future we have to look forward to.

 

[wintersheir]

WoD is essentially a filler expansion in terms of the content it had, but I have little faith in Legion being any better.

It's tinfoily, but even while I was leveling in WoD and having fun, my buddies and I kept noticing stuff that felt so unfinished and/or untested, to the point that we started theorizing that they were actually working on Legion after MoP originally and then switched gears to do WoD.

They had SO. LONG. to work on WoD after Siege of Orgrimmar dropped*, and yet what we got was so strangely unfinished. So I have a faint hope that Legion will be the full experience, but even then I don't know if I'll go back to WoW. Too much shit to do, other video games to play.

*simplifying a bit, I'm aware of their overlapping development timelines

 

[Elixist]

What's their problem with providing subscriber numbers?

the problem is the number keeps getting smaller and smaller, not what fans or investors want to hear i would guess. Put me in the had the most fun in Lich King and then stopped playing camp.

 

[fester]

Like, have you ever gone back to Vanilla raids and seen how simplistic those fights are? Molten Core bosses are just trash mobs with 1-2 abilities and they have no shittalk.

Raiding is such a small piece of this issue. I'm not terribly concerned about the quality of vanilla raiding as I think modern WoD raiding is crap on its own accord. What irritates me the most is that I cannot go back to my original server and play through the original questlines as they originally were. Cataclysm nuked it all. Even if you want to dismiss me and others as "blinded by rose tinted glasses, the fact is that nostalgia sells and right now Blizzard gets $0 from me.

 

[erawsd]

MoP is good. WotLK is overrated!

I don't know if Id say WOTLK was overrated but I do agree that MOP was good, real good.

 

[ZenaxPure]

Just like with Pandaria they give these huge gaps between patchs. you'd think they would have leared with 1+ years in Siege of Ogrimaar. Nope it'll be 1+ years in Hellfire Citadel too by the time the next Content Patch/Expansion lands. you're not going to attract anyone but the addicts at that point

Just like Pandaria? Their content drip has been terrible all the way back to TBC. Every expansion has had big gaps of them not putting out meaningful content. There was a year between black temple and sunwell with the only thing to do between them being farm war bears, there was a nearly year long gap between ICC and Cata with the only update being a pretty boring 1 boss raid most people didn't bother with because they were already checked out by the time it came out. Cata had around 1 year between Dragon Soul and MoP with nothing, and then MoP had SoO with the only real update being another PVP season. This shit has been going on forever.

But like I said before, this is now their business strategy, they have little interest in actually releasing patches for expansions, they want to focus on popping out an expansion roughly every year instead.

As for HFC being the only thing to do for a full year, it probably won't make it that far. Legion has been in F&F Alpha for months now, since before the reveal. That is further along then they usually are by this point.

 

[Mulgrok]

I stopped playing WoW at the end of WotlK because community interaction in game was dead, even if the player count was at its highest. They kept putting in more and more antisocial systems so players can grind dailies/dungeons instead of finding ways of getting more players to interact at once on a server. Looks like they never learned their mistake.

 

[Renekton]

Raiding is such a small piece of this issue. I'm not terribly concerned about the quality of vanilla raiding as I think modern WoD raiding is crap on its own accord. What irritates me the most is that I cannot go back to my original server and play through the original questlines as they originally were. Cataclysm nuked it all. Even if you want to dismiss me and others as "blinded by rose tinted glasses, the fact is that nostalgia sells and right now Blizzard gets $0 from me.

They might still get $0 from you with vanilla servers.

Like the posters above said, we gamers are not very good at articulating what we actually want. We likely just want the old community and feeling back (not going to happen).

 

[fluffydelusions]

Are barracks going to be in the new xpac? Have they said? I hope not...I hate them so much.

 

[meanspartan]

You're kind of proving my point by presuming to know what I really want.

Fair enough, but it's kind of irrelevant what you in particular want. What I said likely applies to the majority of people demanding Vanilla servers, hence why it is pointless to do them from an economic standpoint.

What these players are actually asking for whether they realize it or not, isn't 2005 WoW gameplay in 2015, but rather the feelings they got playing this revolutionary MMO when it was new and fresh. Which obviously won't happen, they'd just be playing an outdated and now clunky version of the game.

My view of it anyway.