Yes, but I will repeat my point, perhaps in a clearer fashion. Every person must make a choice about what aspects of their psyche/physiology/history they reveal to another person, with priority being on these aspects which may have the greatest effect on the other person if revealed, whether or not it actually have any effect at all. But its all about probability isn't it? Again, one does not need to be psychic to know what these possible issues may be, any very basic reasoning should reveal what is important or not. Being transgendererd is a pretty big deal in modern society, so naturally this should be revealed and early to boot. One does not need to be psychic and one does not need to insist that men should ask their partners if they are transgendered or not. This should be revealed by the transgendered partner seeing as how this may have a huge impact on the relationship.
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Would you ever date a transgender person?
- Thread starter Endo Punk
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Yes, but I will repeat my point, perhaps in a clearer fashion. Every person must make a choice about what aspects of their psyche/physiology/history they reveal to another person, with priority being on these aspects which may have the greatest effect on the other person if revealed, whether or not it actually have any effect at all. But its all about probability isn't it? Again, one does not need to be psychic to know what these possible issues may be, any very basic reasoning should reveal what is important or not. Being transgendererd is a pretty big deal in modern society, so naturally this should be revealed and early to boot. One does not need to be psychic and one does not need to insist that men should ask their partners if they are transgendered or not. This should be revealed by the transgendered partner seeing as how this may have a huge impact on the relationship.
He is asking if you think being gay is a choice. Nothing about free will.
It would have to be a strong attraction in a non physical sense and even then I don't know how romantically involved I could be. Sexually, I am really really unsure, definitely not pre op. They would have to be honest from the start too. I really don't know, I doubt I could. I'd like to think I'd be accepting.
Devolution
Member
You're just being obtuse. If you start a relationship you establish what you want rather than assuming what your partner wants. If you want kids you should establish that fact from the beginning.
If you want the whole family deal I feel it's your obligation to make that known rather than assuming the other person wants that. Some people will feel it's the opposite but a family or a kid is a potential change to the relationship dynamic. How many relationships are just established as casual fucking, is it the obligation of both parties involved to disclose their fertility on the first date?
If it's not a choice, what is it?
I see a lot of discussion about who the onus is on, but I think the bottom line the onus is on the person who has the knowledge. Regardless of the issue. I don't want to interrogate a girl I'm dating to make sure she doesn't fall into some category that doesn't work for me. It should be a natural progression of getting to know each other and opening up. We got Opiate up there talking about this stuff like it's for a job interview. This is what courtship is people. ffs
I can just imagine someone reveals they are TG after 3 years to their SO. The SO says "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME SOONER", and the response is "well, you never asked". I can't think of any relationship where that response would actually work regardless of the issue.
I can empathize with those who are upset that they feel they shouldn't have to tell, it is definitely a big deal for both sides involved and would be hard to reveal, but it's because it's a big deal that you should tell the other person. It's part of who you are, and how you came to be who you are and a major part of your life journey. If anything I would be upset that my SO didn't trust me enough to share that info with me.
Certainly you're going to meet people who don't want to date / hang out once they find out, but in the long run that's not someone you would likely want to be with anyway.
I can just imagine someone reveals they are TG after 3 years to their SO. The SO says "WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME SOONER", and the response is "well, you never asked". I can't think of any relationship where that response would actually work regardless of the issue.
I can empathize with those who are upset that they feel they shouldn't have to tell, it is definitely a big deal for both sides involved and would be hard to reveal, but it's because it's a big deal that you should tell the other person. It's part of who you are, and how you came to be who you are and a major part of your life journey. If anything I would be upset that my SO didn't trust me enough to share that info with me.
Certainly you're going to meet people who don't want to date / hang out once they find out, but in the long run that's not someone you would likely want to be with anyway.
ElectricBlue187
Member
biological
My point is that you're not required to tell everyone everything without being asked in a relationship. If someone wants to know something then it should be communicated clearly but that's that. I'm not saying your past has to be completely a blank slate or hidden, but I AM saying that any issues and hang ups people have are your own and if some piece of information would be crucial for you to know then you should ask about it. Would I date a smoker? Probably not because I hate the smell and the health risks of course. Would I care if someone was smoker a year or two prior? Not really. Would I date someone who was a devout Christian? Maybe depending, but I'd probably ask them about their beliefs early enough in a relationship that I wouldn't be taken by surprise. Would I want to know if someone was molested by a priest as a child and got a $100,000 civil judgement? Its not really relevant unless they have continuing psychological issues. People are too concerned with TRIVIA.
An immutable characteristic?
Can you will your eyes green? Can you will a few extra inches onto your stature? Do you possess free will or not, BSTF?
If something is a major part of your life, background, and history, you should tell a significant other about it - someone you're just dating casually, no, that's your business, but someone you're planning to marry? I feel like that's the sort of thing you should want to tell someone you're really close with.
I'm not trans, but I imagine it would be an important aspect of a person's life and sense of being. They're under no obligation to do so until they're comfortable, but I wouldn't be comfortable entering into a long-lasting relationship who's unwilling to tell me about important parts of their life, be they positive or negative.
Depends if you believe in science or not, as Homosexuality is abundant in nature.
So, factually, you're genetically inclined to be homosexual, based on the genes that the infallible engineers gave us.
Its a natural occurrence. Evidence of its natural presence are even seen in the Catholic church.
Explain this.
You can refrain from having homosexual intercourse, but that does not make you heterosexual. I thought people understood that in 2012.
Steve Youngblood
Member
For the most part, I agree. However, I do keep seeing this "What if the woman learns later on that she can't bear kids" comparison that is not 1:1 and strikes me as kind of disingenuous.
GungHo
Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
Because when you feel rejected because you were born with the "wrong" parts, having someone else reject you on top of that for being born with the "wrong" parts despite the huge struggle you may have gone through to rectify the situation is a serious punch in the gut, and essentially underscores to them "your mind is wrong, not your biology".
Personally, I don't think trans people are out there to fool people. I do understand why they would be hesitant to tell someone their past unless they knew them very well for fear of that rejection (perhaps even violent rejection), as noted above. I mean, fuck... some of you may not be old enough to remember, but it wasn't that long ago that gay people were scared shit-less to be out, and some even tried to run "fake" relationships to keep people out of their business.
I really doubt there are many trans persons running around getting married under "false pretenses" and saying "ooh, gee, I don't know why I didn't get pregnant this time, lol", and I really think there are some deeper ethical issues going on in that instance that someone in that situation would need to be concerned about beyond "she used to have a penis".
Pickles the Firecat
Banned
I love the image of dating as a series of sterile questions read off of flash-cards in a dimly lit restaurant.
Woman: Are you now, or have you ever been, a Cuban spy?
Man: ...No.
It was her greatest mistake. Years later she would learn that he was an Argentinian spy, and the two of them would be executed after a failed coupe. The lesson: be thorough!
I don't know how anyone could disagree with this.
Woman: Are you now, or have you ever been, a Cuban spy?
Man: ...No.
It was her greatest mistake. Years later she would learn that he was an Argentinian spy, and the two of them would be executed after a failed coupe. The lesson: be thorough!
I don't know how anyone could disagree with this.
If being transgender shouldn't be revealed, if it is not on the onus of the person who has the knowledge to be open to their partner, then you can make an argument that there is nothing that anyone is obligated to tell their partner unless it is threatening their immediate health.
Except it isn't.
There's actual biological evidence for eye color and height. Weak scientific evidence at best for homosexuality.
Could you list these gay genes?
I don't know if you are saying that what you are saying should be wrong, but I actually more or less agree with it. If you have an STD or infection, let your partner know, otherwise there is no reason to share your personal secrets unless you are already in an established relationship.
I say "secrets" here not meaning something you are purposefully hiding, only something that has not yet had a reason to be revealed.
EXPLAIN THIS
Speaking as a gay man I'd assume the COMPLETE opposite for a post op trans woman. That is, they're a woman. Period. There really isn't much more to it. Their body is in line with their mind as it should be. I would think that is the important thing to them. I remember when I first came out it was important for me to be open about my sexuality but now its... almost irrelevant. I mean, I'm gay, so? its just a fact. Kind of like I don't think about my eye color much. (blue)
Log4Girlz - That's why individuals should set the parameters of their relationship early on.
Yea, but ya gotta person up! This is a severely selfish attitude. I understand where its coming from. Love is equal, and if a partner is in love with you, you should know that its perfectly fine to tell them. You have to accept what their choice is, but you can't make the choice for them.
It is a significant reveal to most people, and you just have to be fortunate enough to find a good person that loves who you are, not your anatomy.
People aren't born gay.
Okay, I'm being obtuse. How does this change my position? I'm not understanding you. If I say that I might want kids, then it instantly becomes the obligation of the significant other to divulge any and all information related to that?
am i seeing what i am seeing
Psychotext
Member
I can't help feeling it's not so subtle trolling.
What do you believe "causes" homosexuality?
What is your evidence for this position?
straight genes haven't been sequenced. Nor have preference to strawberries instead of blueberries...
so what makes you straight..? Such a sad argument.
So on 1 hand we have Homosexuality in nature. By animals who aren't making a choice. Man is an animal...
and on another we have 332@#^@#^^^durrrr@##@@@#ddchahhede88#
I'm still stuck in page one and the ladyboy controversy, like seriously? I would never think that term was offensive at all, I honestly think is just pushing it.
On topic, I would date a trans-man definitely, and while disclosure might not seem important, it would be freaking weird someone not mentioning anything about their childhood or adolescence, or talking weird about it with not much details. This is an integral part of your being, and comparisons with previous abortions (or skinning a cat) are absurd to be honest, being transgender isn't just an event of your life, it is your life. I honestly can't even imagine how a relationship can arise when someone isn't natural and matter-of-fact about such an important thing. It's actually off-putting to be honest, I would feel betrayed.
Well I don't know why I even responded, I do prefer to avoid trans related topics, but here I am, and yes I would date a trans man. And yes having to find out by other means instead the guy telling me would be awful.
On topic, I would date a trans-man definitely, and while disclosure might not seem important, it would be freaking weird someone not mentioning anything about their childhood or adolescence, or talking weird about it with not much details. This is an integral part of your being, and comparisons with previous abortions (or skinning a cat) are absurd to be honest, being transgender isn't just an event of your life, it is your life. I honestly can't even imagine how a relationship can arise when someone isn't natural and matter-of-fact about such an important thing. It's actually off-putting to be honest, I would feel betrayed.
Well I don't know why I even responded, I do prefer to avoid trans related topics, but here I am, and yes I would date a trans man. And yes having to find out by other means instead the guy telling me would be awful.
He sounds like my late grandfather.
I wonder how he explains the millions of gay people who admit they wish they could CHOOSE to be straight just because it would make their lives easier.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
You do know I'm right don't you? The genetic argument is that child is carrying some gay trait that may or may not eventually make them gay. A trait that hasn't been found.
Basically the same for me.
He has none. Read his posts in this thread and you will have all of his arguments. I will even summarize:
- a blanket, out of hand rejection of scientific evidence on the grounds that it is "weak" without explaining why it is weak
- people have free will, ergo gay people do not have to have homosexual intercourse, ergo gay people are gay because they choose to be
There you go.
BadAss2961
Member
And here we go.
Devolution
Member
Is there a straight gene?
Its not just that but a potential partner may completely change their mind about how they perceive you based on the information. I mean on a scale of 1 to 10 being transgendered is a 10 on the importance scale. For most people in the western world, only STD's would be a higher priority for divulgence. This will eventually change, but for this day and age, this is the reality.
Princess Viola
Member
So you are personally attracted to men and women but make the choice to only be with women? I think you should give everyone a shot my man.
And Jesus rode a dinosaur
The preponderance of scientific evidence suggests you are wrong.
Gordon Shumway
Banned
WHAT?
BadAss2961
Member
Agreed. Fact is, this is something that would greatly upset most people if one waited too long to tell them.
Johnny Cage In The Shower
Member
NOW, this thread is going places 
So the Sun DID revolve around the Earth before Copernico!
Forceatowulf
G***n S**n*bi
*new page*
I will say this, his tag is very appropriate.
But isn't the period in which their body wasn't in sync be important? That's an interesting experience and a part of her life.
I mean, that's just something I'd want to know. It doesn't really matter to me - if she's attractive, and I like spending time with her, that's enough for me, regardless of her past - but it's still something I'd be curious about. If she'd lived in Scandinavia for a few years. If one of her parents died when she was young. If she used to be religious, but isn't anymore. If she wasn't religious but then became religious. If she was born biologically male.
But maybe that's just me?
Onus pong!
You're right, they're born fabulous. Gay status requires a pilgrimage.
Gabron made a derivative of that argument earlier today.
edit: well, a not-quite-as-all-inclusive argument, actually.
Absolving cis people who want to know whether or not a partner is trans of asking the question themselves is some hilarious privilege babying. Life is so hard being cis you need to think for me.((((((
It's not about absolving people of undue responsibility. A sex change is an understated but important characteristic to a wide majority of people, which could feasibly be unknown by the other party indefinitely. Men generally don't work under the assumption that the girl they're courting was once (or still is) biologically a male. That's anticipating for a low probability outcome, then coming across the high potential of offending someone in the case that he do ask unprovoked.
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