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[Raistlin]

I really hope the devs stop forcing games @ 1080p. I mean Insomniac make a smart move by focusing on framerate for Resistance rather than resolution. I just wish Factor 5 did the same thing too. Frame-rate >>>>> Resolution. I can live with 720p.

EDIT: Hey Jstevenson. Can't wait for podcast

If it isn't impacting the game, why not go with 1080p?

 

[bud]

If it isn't impacting the game, why not go with 1080p?

because most people have 720p tv's?

 

[Union Carbine]

If it isn't impacting the game, why not go with 1080p?

But isn't the argument that it is impacting the game? ... or did I miss something?

 

[MachoInfinity]

because most people have 720p tv's?

Most people have 480i sets.

 

[IdleCoder]

Don't worry everyone - I've been working on my own gaming project for a while, and the difference between the July preview code and July review code was ridiculous.

Just to give you an idea of the development process:

Take note that the initial line could barely hold a steady 30fps - that extra bit of development time allowed us to straighten out all the bugs.

WAS A JOKE, IT WILL RUN @120FPS

:lol

 

[bud]

Most people have 480i sets.

i was actually talking about hdtv's but yeah you have a point.

 

[Raistlin]

because most people have 720p tv's?

And what does that have to do with my point?

 

[Oblivion]

If it isn't impacting the game, why not go with 1080p?

How is it NOT impacting the game?

 

[Raistlin]

But isn't the argument that it is impacting the game? ... or did I miss something?

The problem is there is no evidence to say that.


The people like Shog proclaiming they could have got 60fps @ 720p is laughable at best.

 

[bud]

And what does that have to do with my point?

what's the use of doing games in 1080p if most people can't even play it in that resolution?

besides, most people can't even see the difference between 720p and 1080p.

 

[Raistlin]

How is it NOT impacting the game?

If the retail build is running at a pretty steady 30fps, as a number of people have proclaimed, then I'm not sure why people think it is impacting the game.

 

[Raistlin]

what's the use of doing games in 1080p if most people can't even play it in that resolution?

If you can do it wihtout impacting the game much, then why not do it since there ARE people with those TV's (and there will continue to be more and more).


Considering 720p TV's are the vast majority right now, I certainly wouldn't want a dev to do create a game at 1080p if it has a major impact on performance ... but that isn't what I'm arguing.


This is like saying why put 7.1 sound in a game since not many people have it.

 

[KTallguy]

Honestly, if the frame rate is better at 720, I see no reason why to put it at 1080 for bragging rights.

I think 720 looks just fine, although 1080 does look better. But frame rate is infinitely more important.

 

[Oblivion]

If the retail build is running at a pretty steady 30fps, as a number of people have proclaimed, then I'm not sure why people think it is impacting the game.

I'm sure quite a few of us would rather have it at 720p with 60fps. 1080p this generation is the most unneccesary additional feature IMO.

 

[UntoldDreams]

All this is heresay until the final build is in people's hands.

Also... You guys are being unfair to Factor 5. Stomping on a developer for trying something ambitious is wrong.

Stomping on a developer for being lazy maybe, but for being ambitious? It's like kicking someone for trying hard...

 

[ari]

maybe they should of use all of ps3s power instead of half

 

[Rayven]

FPS >>>>>> res

 

[OokieSpookie]

I'm sure quite a few of us would rather have it at 720p with 60fps. 1080p this generation is the most unneccesary additional feature this gen IMO.

I would think you would have a great pic of your 1080p tv set to go with this statement?
Much like other people have hinted in this thread, not everyone has the same set up and why 1080p may not be a big deal to some, others it could be.
Hell if all games were 480p every game could probably be 60fps

 

[kaching]

I'm sure quite a few of us would rather have it at 720p with 60fps.

Don't you need a PS3 first?

 

[Firewire]

Don't you need a PS3 first?

:lol

 

[ParticleReality]

maybe they should of use all of ps3s power instead of half

They'd need to use half of the Playstation 3's power first.

 

[Oblivion]

I would think you would have a great pic of your 1080p tv set to go with this statement?
Much like other people have hinted in this thread, not everyone has the same set up and why 1080p may not be a big deal to some, others it could be.
Hell if all games were 480p every game could probably be 60fps

I like high definition, but if I had to sacrifice resolution for frame rate, well, I would. 1080p next time around would be no problem.

Don't you need a PS3 first?

Very funny. I eventually plan on getting a PS3 and all the other consoles, but even if I don't have one, I can still comment on it.

 

[arias]

Very funny. I eventually plan on getting a PS3 and all the other consoles, but even if I don't have one, I can still comment on it.

:lol :lol :lol

 

[UntoldDreams]

I like high definition, but if I had to sacrifice resolution for frame rate, well, I would. 1080p next time around would be no problem.



Very funny. I eventually plan on getting a PS3 and all the other consoles, but even if I don't have one, I can still comment on it.

...

There's something wrong with people that go to amusement parks to complain about it when they didn't even buy a ticket to go inside.

Probably because the people who have the real right to bitch are the ones being directly effected by a problem whereas you are living vicariously through others.

 

[Oblivion]

So..I can't say I would rather have this than that? Cause I'm pretty ****ing sure I would prefer having 60fps at 720p without having to buy a PS3.

And I don't see the problem either. We're not talking gameplay here. Just looks, which one can easily comment on.

 

[SolidSnakex]

So..I can't say I would rather have this than that? Cause I'm pretty ****ing sure I would prefer having 60fps at 720p without having to buy a PS3.

And I don't see the problem either. We're not talking gameplay here. Just looks, which one can easily comment on.

Where are you getting that it'd even be 60fps? Or are you just ignoring that the majority of current gen games are 720p 30fps?

 

[Tideas]

The worse Sony could do now is delay it. Just release it, and let the fan judge for themselves instead of 3 reviewers

 

[Son of Godzilla]

All you people bitching about framerate are spoilt. Have you people never done ghetto PC gaming? Anything over 20 FPS is manna from heaven, and if the game never dips below 10 you have the settings too low.

 

[MickeyKnox]

what's the use of doing games in 1080p if most people can't even play it in that resolution?

besides, most people can't even see the difference between 720p and 1080p.

Because 720p is a stopgap pretend HD resolution.

 

[Trevelyan]

:lol

All you people bitching about framerate are spoilt. Have you people never done ghetto PC gaming? Anything over 20 FPS is manna from heaven, and if the game never dips below 10 you have the settings too low.

:lol :lol That's priceless, yet so, so true.

 

[Haunted]

All you people bitching about framerate are spoilt. Have you people never done ghetto PC gaming? Anything over 20 FPS is manna from heaven, and if the game never dips below 10 you have the settings too low.

:lol

 

[Oblivion]

Where are you getting that it'd even be 60fps? Or are you just ignoring that the majority of current gen games are 720p 30fps?

Well, I'm just assuming that given Factor 5's technical prowess.

 

[captain wow]

All you people bitching about framerate are spoilt. Have you people never done ghetto PC gaming? Anything over 20 FPS is manna from heaven, and if the game never dips below 10 you have the settings too low.

After a year of WoW on my 4 year old pc i can tell you that in any raid dungeon, if i were to get above 6fps (even when not in fights) i would consider that running silky smooth.

 

[camineet]

summer 2005 teaser footage, which was realtime BTW, was 60fps.

this news makes me cry.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

:lol

It's true! It's so true!

People are such spoilt frame rate bitches nowadays...

but back in the day, 60FPS was a pipe dream. 5-25 FPS in Diablo 2 on my 300 mhz K6-2!

 

[Karma Kramer]

Play editors on drugs confirmed.

They probably thought the slow frame-rate was like a slow motion effect or something :lol

 

[arias]

Thread transforming into hardcore old PC fogeys coming in to lecture the new generation of kids is surreal.

 

[Raistlin]

I'm sure quite a few of us would rather have it at 720p with 60fps. 1080p this generation is the most unneccesary additional feature IMO.

The problem here is that there is this FUD idea that 720p = 60fps, and 1080p = 30fps.


The reality is that for a vast majority of cases, that simply isn't true.



Based on the design of this game, there was basically no chance it would be 60fps, regardles of resolution (I doubt it would even happen at 480p).





Rendering at 1080p causes 2 main issues. One, memory (general processing, vertex, and especially texture). The other is speed. Speed is mostly impacted due to bandwidth issues (1080p textures suck up more bandwidth when moving them around), and texture processing (specifically if you are doing per-pixel effects on them).

Looking at Lair, texturing is obviously not an issue. The streaming engine they created seems to be working just fine since the game has some of the best extures on PS3 so far (at least based on pics I've seen).

So the other consideration is speed. The thing is, this game is doing a TON of special processing that a normal game is not. Go look up in one of the older Lair threads if you want more details, but things like the real-time progressive mesh, real-time lighting, AI, etc. are all incredibly expensive.

From the outset, Factor 5 knew what sort of effects they wanted to do. They also knew that there was no way you could do those things at 60fps. The long pole are all of those special effects and other processes going on. Based on that info, the decided there was enough room to do 1080p since they had left over processing speed to hit 30fps ... but not enough for 60fps regardless of resolution.


The only question now is whether or not the final cut does indeed stay at 30fps a majority of the time (occasional slowdown can be caused by tons of things, so assuming 720p would stop it is a bit moot). If there is a ton of slowdown, then yes ... 1080p may be to blame (again, not necessarily). If there isn't then, why the hell not offer 1080p?

I'm just getting sick of hearing this 720p = 60fps crap. It simply isn't true.

 

[DCharlie]

(recalls TGS build)

somewhat disappointed that it`s not fixed up from the TGS 06 build - though i guess the chances are that it`s somewhat improved. Regardless, it`s preordered already, will buy it anyways.

 

[Norml]

what's the use of doing games in 1080p if most people can't even play it in that resolution?

besides, most people can't even see the difference between 720p and 1080p.

thats just not true at all, maybe if you sit far away yeah.

1080p has over 2 times more pixels, how can you not notice?

 

[dallow_bg]

thats just not true at all, maybe if you sit far away yeah.

1080p has over 2 times more pixels, how can you not notice?

Smaller screens.

Play editors on drugs confirmed.

They probably thought the slow frame-rate was like a slow motion effect or something

:lol

I should also add that I'm looking foward to trying out this game for myself.
Release dates all over online have been pushing back, game delayed?

 

[DCharlie]

summer 2005 teaser footage, which was realtime BTW, was 60fps.

weird, becuase the tgs 06 build was running on PS3s and it was running way short of 60fps, with screen tearing, massive slowdown when turning, and an inconsistant frame rate...

oh, except for TWO people (out of about the 60+ people we knew who went who we talked to afterwards) who saw it running with a flawless frame rate and no issues.

 

[Norml]

Smaller screens.

with a small tv you would have almost zero screen door effect.

 

[Draft]

thats just not true at all, maybe if you sit far away yeah.

1080p has over 2 times more pixels, how can you not notice?

Diminishing returns. The jump from SD to 720p is much more dramatic than the jump from 720p to 1080p.

 

[Oneself]

summer 2005 teaser footage, which was realtime BTW, was 60fps.

this news makes me cry.

Ahaha, yeah "realtime" ...

 

[Son of Godzilla]

It's true! It's so true!

People are such spoilt frame rate bitches nowadays...

but back in the day, 60FPS was a pipe dream. 5-25 FPS in Diablo 2 on my 300 mhz K6-2!

Seriously. Frame loss is just the game slowing down for dramatic effect. Gives you extra time to pray when the shit starts to fly.

how can you not notice?

Because you are not and never will be playing the game right next to another television playing it on the other resolution. Without some sort of reference the vast ****ing majority of people on Earth cannot tell the difference.

 

[joesmokey]

Don't you need a PS3 first?

:lol Brilliant :lol

 

[drohne]

i'm kind of a framerate whore, but i do remember playing through quake 1 at ~10 fps :lol

 

[Fafalada]

Regardless, it`s preordered already, will buy it anyways.

Judging by the current trends of Lair commentary on this forum, I think you would do GAF servers a great favour if you cancel that preorder.

Or send it to me when you get it

i'm kind of a framerate whore, but i do remember playing through quake 1 at ~10 fps

Same here - and I played countless hours of Duke3d multiplayer at 5-15fps (yea the game ran much better at 320x200 (~30) but being able to actually SEE things in distance (640x400 or higher) made 10x more difference then smoother fps for multiplayer).

 

[Mar]

Eh. I don't know why the most aggressive of the fans care so much. I mean, if you know you like that style of game, who cares about the framerate? I loved SotC and it supposedly had a shit framerate.

My concern with Lair is that it just looks as boring as hell.