Support NeoGAF

[Wowfunhappy]

2011 (start of 8th gen with 3DS) to 2016 (start of 9th gen with NX) would be a standard generational cycle for Nintendo. Welcome to NX.

I've never considered portables to be part of any console generation, since there simply isn't enough overlap with release schedules. You have to look at not just when Nintendo refreshed their consoles, but when their competitors did as well.

As another poster said, generation numbers don't really matter either way, although I do find them interesting for some reason.

 

[MilesTeg]

The Wii U failed primarily because it's made up of bad hardware decisions and gave little reason for non-Nintendo fans to buy one.

Yeah. Sometimes people act as though there is nothing that Nintendo can do. Well, they could start by not doing everything wrong. Maybe theres a chance that if they get some things right, their situation may improve.

 

[Nanashrew]

All Nintendo has to do is fund Mega Man Legends HD Collection and MML 3 as NX exclusives to win the console war.

But seriously, they should just buy Capcom.

I cry into my pillow every night over Mega Man Legends 3. Someone should fund that. The engine is still being used in some Capcom 3DS games already. Though I'd take any new Mega Man game at this point.

 

[Agent Unknown]

another nintendo console...another fail.....

 

[Xenoblade]

Nintendo's best chance at success with NX is to have exclusives that people really badly want to play. I'm talking about games that have a huge hook equivalent to Minecraft, Goat Simulator, DayZ, Rocket League, Candy Crush, Runescape etc. They need these types of games and they need to identify them and secure exclusivity rights early before they become franchises worth 2 billion dollars.

If there are games like that exclusive to their system, consoles sales won't be a problem and so long as the NX is similar in power to PS4, neither will 3rd party support. It's a no-brainer really.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

I don't know what that sea change entails to you, but I've seen some steps in the right direction with their indie initiative. Unity support is there and, if this Dragon Quest XI thing is what we hope it is, Unreal Engine 4 support is there as well. Add in the fact that Takeda said this recently:



I've taken this to mean that Nintendo are internally going to be using and better integrating their tool chain into MS Visual Studio, which they don't want to name outright. However, it is the industry standard Integrated Development Environment that an anonymous developer spoke to Eurogamer about when complaining about the Wii U tool chain. Support was there, but in pathetic fashion, with Green Hills MULTI being the officially supported IDE.

There are even rumors of Nintendo emulating Android to some extent or using an open version branch of Android or Linux. Takeda has spoken of looking into techniques in which mobile games are efficiently developed. We already have Nintendo Web Framework. They could expand that with more scripting support or turn it into a more robust high-level engine. And let's hope they adapt Vulkan or use something very similar to it. They're in the Khronos Group, so that could be taken as a positive indicator.

All these things plus a digital distribution storefront which is carefully crafted could lead to Nintendo's most easy-to-develop-for console to date.

Easy to port to, would be nice. 8 or 12GB of GDDR5 would be nice. I wonder if embedded memory is still in the cards for the GPU.

 

[Lupin the Third]

I cry into my pillow every night over Mega Man Legends 3. Someone should fund that. The engine is still being used in some Capcom 3DS games already. Though I'd take any new Mega Man game at this point.

I think it would foster a lot of good will from fans. There are a few other titles like this out there that never happened, though MML3 is the only one that comes to mind.

Buying Konami and getting Kojima back on as a Metal Gear producer (but not director, give the guy a break already) and resurrecting Silent Hills seems like a surefire plan for Nintendo success. Bayonetta 2 was a great buy if you ask me, but Silent Hills? What more could you ask for?

 

[PdotMichael]

So, exactly what Nintendo did with the the Wii U. But it failed because they didn't get any AAA first-party releases out at launch to get an audience for those third-party titles.

I don't remember that Nintendo was trying to get stuff like exclusive marketing deals for the incoming Star Wars Battlefront which will most likely sell more systems than most exclusiv deals.

That soft marketing approach is something Nintendo must learn to play as well.

 

[Übermatik]

I miss burntpork.

 

[ZOONAMI]

And yet the 2DS, missing only the 3D screen and the hinge feature, is over $50 cheaper than a 3D-displaying model. Clearly there are higher costs involved for that display.

And with 3DS price point lessons having been learned, if Nintendo could sell the New3DS or New3DSXL at $150 or less at this point and still make a healthy profit on them, I'm sure they would! The GBA sold for $100 on day one; and the SP sold for similar prices when it debuted. The higher prices of 3DS handhelds are not exactly helping their situation. Wasn't the DSLite only $130 for a looong time?

Ever heard of inflation? GBA came out 15 years ago lol.

GBA is much more comparable to the 2DS than 3DS (one scree, more toy like). $199 is a fair asking price for a n3ds. $250 was too Steep for the 3ds at launch, that's why they dropped the price so quickly and did the ambassador program. Nintendo basically admitted the $250 launch price was a mistake.

Edit: completely misread the meaning of your post. Disregard.

 

[Nanashrew]

I think it would foster a lot of good will from fans. There are a few other titles like this out there that never happened, though MML3 is the only one that comes to mind.

Buying Konami and getting Kojima back on as a Metal Gear producer (but not director, give the guy a break already) and resurrecting Silent Hills seems like a surefire plan for Nintendo success. Bayonetta 2 was a great buy if you ask me, but Silent Hills? What more could you ask for?

Kojima has already left though. However, all those Hudson games would be nice and all those abandoned Konami IPs like Twinbee and Bomberman. I dunno if Nintendo could ever purchase them but I'd be more than okay if they could even get a license to make their titles.

 

[Roo]

I miss burntpork.

God no.

 

[Tregard]

Nintendo's best chance at success with NX is to have exclusives that people really badly want to play. I'm talking about games that have a huge hook equivalent to Minecraft, Goat Simulator, DayZ, Rocket League, Candy Crush, Runescape etc. They need these types of games and they need to identify them and secure exclusivity rights early before they become franchises worth 2 billion dollars.

If there are games like that exclusive to their system, consoles sales won't be a problem and so long as the NX is similar in power to PS4, neither will 3rd party support. It's a no-brainer really.

On the flip side though, how will people know these games are must play if nobody owns the system in the first place? It is very very difficult to sell a console on a franchise the player has never heard of.

I do agree cultivating new ideas is really important, but it's also impossible to identify the next lightning in a bottle game that will come along. I think Nintendos online presence would need to be vastly expanded for this plan to help.

 

[Plinko]

That only works if Nintendo actually decides to make titles that appeal to people outside of their traditional fans. Take Splatoon for example, by all measures it's a innovative and well-received title. However, it didn't do anything to shift new Wii Us because it failed to capture any new audience.

Which was exactly my point. They can't do that right now. The only way they will is if they condense their libraries.

 

[Übermatik]

God no.

They were the good ol' days Roo.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Ever heard of inflation? GBA came out 15 years ago lol.

And yet the 2DS exists.

And if they simplified the design some (ex.: dropping 3DS/DS BC, new form factor) while still upgrading the hardware to something a bit ahead of the New3DS' guts, I could see a $140 handheld or less at launch easily ($100 in 2001 ~= $135 in 2015). It doesn't have to be some kind of OLED-Vita masterpiece, I just want something affordable, functional, and durable that people will buy in droves so the games keep coming.

 

[KingBroly]

So, exactly what Nintendo did with the the Wii U. But it failed because they didn't get any AAA first-party releases out at launch to get an audience for those third-party titles.

From my understanding, Nintendo basically tried to modernize a lot of things but failed pretty hard at them, which is why support was basically non-existent.

I think $200 for a handheld going forward is a non-starter. They need it to be $150 or less.

 

[Allegrian]

If people basically wants the NX to be a PS4 (third party support, high end hardware....) then maybe what they really want is Nintendo making games for the PS4.

 

[DragonKnight]

If people basically wants the NX to be a PS4 (third party support, high end hardware....) then maybe what they really want is Nintendo making games for the PS4.

Thats def not what I want.

 

[PdotMichael]

If people basically wants the NX to be a PS4 (third party support, high end hardware....) then maybe what they really want is Nintendo making games for the PS4.

And the alternative is no third party support, low budget hardware.... For the real Nintendo experience?

 

[BY2K]

Exactly. They already experimented with some of that stuff this gen with Platinum. Considering Nintendo's relationship with Capcom thanks to Monster Hunter, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were able to lock down a high profile Capcom I.P as an exclusive for NX. The next step is locking down other high profile IPs from other high profile third parties.

Anything can happen. If you told me two years ago that the new Street Fighter would be Playstation exclusive I'd have told you you were fucking crazy.

While not exclusives, Square-Enix seemed pretty excited about the NX to announce DQXI for it so quickly.

 

[Nanashrew]

From my understanding, Nintendo basically tried to modernize a lot of things but failed pretty hard at them, which is why support was basically non-existent.

I think $200 for a handheld going forward is a non-starter. They need it to be $150 or less.

$150 or less would be best, especially in today's market with phones eating that share away. They need a good fair inexpensive price point to get people into it from the start.

 

[ironcreed]

And the alternative is no third party support, low budget hardware.... For the real Nintendo experience?

LOL.

 

[Obliviate]

Hello Gaf,

this is my first post (Please dont kill me and ... i am not a native english speaker)

There was a big rumour back in january. Everyone just thought it was a funny fake. In my eyes its still a fake but the Information looks very ,,correct" if you compare it to some serious rumours and Nintendo official News.

Here is some history:

- Jan 21, 2014: Nintendo Fusion DS and Nintendo Fusion Terminal (Disk Slot Version with 60 Gigs of Internal Flash Storage and Diskless Version with 300 Gigs of Internal Flash Storage) -> The Word Fusion in both the Handheld and Home Console/Terminal implies that there is some big cross funcionality.

- 03-17-2015: New Nintendo Console Codenamed "NX" accounced - NX (X for Cross for example like in Xenoblade X, X for Cross - name from the leading character)

- 08-21-2015: Nintendo files patent application for stationary game console without optical disk

-10/16/15: ,,NX platform is “likely to have... more than two devices.”"

I have absolutly no idea if I did something wrong hereI, so if there is something wrong please mods you are free to delete my post or tell it me, so i can edit everything.

 

[Ansatz]

That only works if Nintendo actually decides to make titles that appeal to people outside of their traditional fans. Take Splatoon for example, by all measures it's a innovative and well-received title. However, it didn't do anything to shift new Wii Us because it failed to capture any new audience.

Wii U is the problem, not the game itself. This is like saying 2D Mario has limited reach because NSMB U failed to shift Wii U's, while NSMB 2 did really well on 3DS. Same with Kart and Smash.

 

[KingBroly]

Wii U is the problem, not the game itself. This is like saying 2D Mario has limited reach because NSMB U failed to shift Wii U's, while NSMB 2 did really well on 3DS. Same with Kart and Smash.

NSMB2 didn't do that well on 3DS. Its release also caused a backlash against NSMBU, despite it being better.

 

[Allegrian]

And the alternative is no third party support, low budget hardware.... For the real Nintendo experience?

I don't get what you are trying to say.

The real Nintendo experiencie right now is the 3DS, I hope NX is a powerful handheld with the kind of games the 3DS has. Most Wii U games seem very "portable" to me (Mario 3D World, Yoshi, Donkey Kong...) I want more "console experiences" like Zelda and Xenoblade X, and we are getting those just before NX kills the Wii U.

 

[BY2K]

Remember that Graphic Engineer Nintendo of America was looking for a while ago? That could give some weight to the "industry-leading chip" thing.

 

[Father_Brain]

And the alternative is no third party support, low budget hardware.... For the real Nintendo experience?

The other alternative is Nintendo throwing tons of money down a hole to no effect except to temporarily appease (maybe) a few million people who badly misjudge how much money, time, and effort it would take to get a foothold in a market in which they have no presence.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

I don't remember that Nintendo was trying to get stuff like exclusive marketing deals for the incoming Star Wars Battlefront which will most likely sell more systems than most exclusiv deals.

That soft marketing approach is something Nintendo must learn to play as well.

No use with even trying at this point for Wii U. Another reason Nintendo is boosting the spec/power of NX is so their console could have the best ports of games like the new Battlefront, a game that would probably sell good enough to port but the Wii U simply would not be worth the hassle.

The NX dev kits and the new developer portal already are hinting that these types of problems should be over with this new system. The cost and time put in to porting will most likely be so enticing, that even if a AAA port only sells 100k on NX the developers could actually make a tiny profit, then when the install base rises you might actually see a Third Party exclusive here or there.

Third Parties will be silly not supporting the NX if you think about it since it would be easy money for them not to mention it will have Nintendo's full backing this time as opposed to Wii U which Nintendo staggered releases and focused on the 3DS right after launching the brand new (at the time) Wii U. With unified releases for NX, Third Party devs can be more confident in releasing NX ports since sales of the console will be a lot more consistent due to a lot less software droughts.

 

[Gnilres]

Hello Gaf,

this is my first post (Please dont kill me and ... i am not a native english speaker)

There was a big rumour back in january. Everyone just thought it was a funny fake. In my eyes its still a fake but the Information looks very ,,correct" if you compare it to some serious rumours and Nintendo official News.

Here is some history:

- Jan 21, 2014: Nintendo Fusion DS and Nintendo Fusion Terminal (Disk Slot Version with 60 Gigs of Internal Flash Storage and Diskless Version with 300 Gigs of Internal Flash Storage) -> The Word Fusion in both the Handheld and Home Console/Terminal implies that there is some big cross funcionality.

- 03-17-2015: New Nintendo Console Codenamed "NX" accounced - NX (X for Cross for example like in Xenoblade X, X for Cross - name from the leading character)

- 08-21-2015: Nintendo files patent application for stationary game console without optical disk

-10/16/15: ,,NX platform is “likely to have... more than two devices.”"

I have absolutly no idea if I did something wrong hereI, so if there is something wrong please mods you are free to delete my post or tell it me, so i can edit everything.

Welcome, good first post here,

I completely had forgotten about the January. I knew it was in there somewhere, because I was vaguely familiar with the idea of two consoles, though.

Also, doubt they meant "NX" to mean cross? Maybe, as a reference to the somewhat cross-compatability?

 

[ZOONAMI]

If people basically wants the NX to be a PS4 (third party support, high end hardware....) then maybe what they really want is Nintendo making games for the PS4.

Or they want a Nintendo system that competes with (or slightly exceeds) the graphical fidelity of the ps4 with 3rd party support from the big western developers.

The PS4 isn't really high end, and wasn't when it was released. The 8GB GDDR5 is really the only high end thing about it (but is actually unnecessary given the limitations of the APU from AMD). The only tricky thing here should be getting the 3rd parties back. If they can't release something at PS4 specs 3 years after the PS4, they might as well die. It would be suicide from a 3rd party support perspective.

 

[Allegrian]

The other alternative is Nintendo throwing tons of money down a hole to no effect except to temporarily appease (maybe) a few million people who badly misjudge how much money, time, and effort it would take to get a foothold in a market in which they have no presence.

No, the other alternartive is what I said, and what this user was answering to: Nintendo making games for Ps4.

They'll be doing that for smarphones, so, why not ps4?

 

[-Horizon-]

If people basically wants the NX to be a PS4 (third party support, high end hardware....) then maybe what they really want is Nintendo making games for the PS4.

Yes. Exactly.

 

[AzaK]

Errbody talking Call of Duty n stuff. Nintendo is never going to win the mass market that eats up these games until they produce a system that is capable of competing with both Microsoft and Sony's third party portfolio. Until each and every major third party game is on Nintendo hardware with polarity then that specific battle is lost.

This is Nintendo's Achilles heel and has been for a long time. Sales of their hardware rest squarely on market appreciation for Nintendo branded games and not much else. It is why their hardware, particularly the Wii U, is perceived as low value to a lot of gamers who might be huge fans of one or two specific Nintendo franchises but nothing else. Sony and Microsoft have the massive advantage of providing hardware with a hugely diverse and supported software portfolio. You can be a fan of only one or two Sony/Microsoft published games and still sit comfortably with a mountain of other equally quality software. Nintendo hardware, again the Wii U, flounders when you have people who are huge Mario Kart/Smash fans but not much else. The value of the system decreases significantly.

And I'm honestly sceptical Nintendo gives a fuck about trying to make up lost ground in the hardware race over trying, again, a different approach.

To the first point I agree completely and people need to see this not as the end, but as the beginning in a long line of things Nintendo need to fix. What this means is that if they do get all the third parties on board, it will likely cost them to do so with exclusive content and paying for ports. THEY are the ones on the back foot and they need to realise that without a health western market they aren't going to grow to "Nintendo like profits" if they are going to be mainly a videogame company (As opposed to QoL, Amiibo toys etc).

To the second point, I am one of those gamer. I like Zelda, Mario Kart, 3d Mario and Metroid Prime from Nintendo and little else to be honest. This is why the 3DS means nothing to me and when they announce Mario Party 3822 and Animal Crossing Happy Home Designer I'm like "Give me fucking Metroid so I'm not sitting here with a paperweight"

I've been saying for years they should have done this (or at least wholly cover the cost for porting) for games launching in the first three years of the Wii U's life.

It would have set an impossibly dangerous precedent for third party relations, but it's a more comfortable noose than the one they used to kill the Wii U.

Agreed. They basically put themselves in this mess, they need to man up and get themselves out of it with the third parties. Assuming of course they want that market, which I'm not convinced of.

 

[Father_Brain]

No, the other alternartive is what I said, and what this user was answering to: Nintendo making games for Ps4.

They'll be doing that for smarphones, so, why not ps4?

For better or worse, they're making NX, so that's not on the table for a while.

 

[Allegrian]

Or they want a Nintendo system that competes with (or slightly exceeds) the graphical fidelity of the ps4 with 3rd party support from the big western developers.

Why do they want another clone of a piece of hardware that they have to buy in order to play games from Nintendo? Wouldn't it be better if you could play it all on ps4, so you only need to buy one console?

Also, what you said is almost imposible.

 

[KingBroly]

No use with even trying at this point for Wii U. Another reason Nintendo is boosting the spec/power of NX is so their console could have the best ports of games like the new Battlefront, a game that would probably sell good enough to port but the Wii U simply would not be worth the hassle.

The NX dev kits and the new developer portal already are hinting that these types of problems should be over with this new system. The cost and time put in to porting will most likely be so enticing, that even if a AAA port only sells 100k on NX the developers could actually make a tiny profit, then when the install base rises you might actually see a Third Party exclusive here or there.

Third Parties will be silly not supporting the NX if you think about it since it would be easy money for them not to mention it will have Nintendo's full backing this time as opposed to Wii U which Nintendo staggered releases and focused on the 3DS right after launching the brand new (at the time) Wii U. With unified releases for NX, Third Party devs can be more confident in releasing NX ports since sales of the console will be a lot more consistent due to a lot less software droughts.

It depends on how much work it'd take to get said ports working in satisfactory condition at or near the ROI breaking point.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Remember that Graphic Engineer Nintendo of America was looking for a while ago? That could give some weight to the "industry-leading chip" thing.

It was posted by the Wall Street Journal, the sources were verified. I would say it already has a lot of weight.

 

[Ansatz]

No, the other alternartive is what I said, and what this user was answering to: Nintendo making games for Ps4.

They'll be doing that for smarphones, so, why not ps4?

They have sold over 60M hardware units this gen, which is more than Sony/MS have sold combined thus far. I know this is spinning statistics but it's an interesting point nonetheless.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Did Square Enix have kits before this news?

speaking of when they had to backpedal NX ports of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest

 

[Deleted member 752119]

What's the likelihood of Nintendo including 4k Blu-ray support? That would be a differentiator, although Sony and MS will likely release revisions that add support.

People always discount the importance of movie support, but people always ask if my wii u plays Blu-ray and dvds and are disappointed when the answer is no. Have seen it a few times with mom's asking retail employees and bailing on the purchase when they find out it doesn't play movies. People see it as a major value add.

Bluray support is important I'd agree. I don't think 4K is likely worth the extra cost. There's so little 4K content out there, people aren't going to be rushing to buy 4K TVs. And Nintendo doesn't really appeal to the videophile crowd anyway as they want state of the art realistic graphics.

 

[Allegrian]

For better or worse, they're making NX, so that's not on the table for a while.

I was just saying that everyone seems to wish for an NX that's basicaly a ps4, and this is like wishing to buy the same piece of hardware. As customers the best for us would be one single console that can play all games, so I don't understand why people wants more "clone" consoles, and pay for them.

If NX is something unique, like a handheld/hybrid, then yes, it's fine if you want to pay for it, as it's not already on the market.

 

[mStudios]

How long for the new star wars trailer?

editL wrong the]read

 

[Allegrian]

They have sold over 60M hardware units this gen, which is more than Sony/MS have sold combined thus far. I know this is spinning statistics but it's an interesting point nonetheless.

This gen? You should count how many HW they've sold since PS4 and XBO came out.

 

[4Tran]

Which was exactly my point. They can't do that right now. The only way they will is if they condense their libraries.

And that's exactly the problem they have to rectify. To continue to exhibit that inability is to live within a ever-shrinking market.

 

[Ansatz]

I was just saying that everyone seems to wish for an NX that's basicaly a ps4, and this is like wishing to buy the same piece of hardware. As customers the best for us would be one single console that can play all games, so I don't understand why people wants more "clone" consoles, and pay for them.

If NX is something unique, like a handheld/hybrid, then yes, it's fine if you want to pay for it, as it's not already on the market.

When you put it like that it's even more obvious how stupid of an idea it is. Is NX supposed to be the console of choice for millions of core gamers? As in, they buy NX instead of PS5. I find that notion absurd.

As far as this audience is concerned, Nintendo is competing for the second console spot. So you might as well double down on Nintendo 1st party as the system's software lineup to make that as strong as possible, instead of a half assed lineup with a couple of 3rd party ports.

 

[Anth0ny]

Honestly, at this point, as much as I'd hate it, NX not having blu Ray playback wouldn't be the end of the world. It's all about streaming nowadays for most people.

Way to wait out the whole "movies on physical media" era, Nintendo.

 

[KingBroly]

Did Square Enix have kits before this news?

speaking of when they had to backpedal NX ports of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest

They either did, or they knew what the deal was. Backrubs were clearly given there.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

It's always going to be another excuse: If only it were 50 bucks cheaper, if only it had *insert arbitrary number* of exclusive games more, if only it had proper accounts...

I don't give any credence to these theories anymore, and it's why I don't see any value in Nintendo trying to appeal to that crowd.

I'd mostly agree. If they're going to survive as a hardware maker, they have to find a way to maximize profits from their fans and/or expand the market beyond core gamers again.

The Halo/CoD/GT/GTA/Madden/Fifa crowd is never going to be terribly interested in what they have. Even if Nintendo gets a few exclusives that appeal to them, Sony/MS will still have more shooter/racer/open world rpg exclusives that appeal to them. And most will still have no interest in Nintendo's "cartoony" games (look how terrible stuff like Rayman sells on those platforms).

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. I thought pointer aiming with the Wii remote was actually a nice feature (The way it was implemented in later FPS on the system at least), but the N64's control stick just felt natural, and in my opinion the most natural, out of all the analog sticks. I'd go as far to say that every successive analog stick has just felt too wobbly (even the GameCube's and Wii U Pro Controller's!).

As of today I'm 31 and I'm still wanting a better input that would capture certain nuances that couldn't be done on a conventional standardized XInput/DualShock setup.

Nothing wrong with that of course. People have different degrees of willingness to adapt and embrace change in hobbies. That's why a majority of people aren't still gaming in their 30s and 40s I suppose. Along with free time disappearing.

I wouldn't argue that the Sega parallel is out-of-place, though. Like Sega, a large bulk of Nintendo's library exists mainly to justify and diversify their own hardware offerings. It's the reason they pushed out stuff like Chibi Robo on GC, or why something like Wii Sport ever existed in the first place. If they went third party you can say goodbye to:

• F-Zero
• Metroid
• Star Fox
• Donkey Kong (maybe)
• Xenoblade
• W101 (if Nintendo owns the IP)
• Bayonetta (again, if Nintendo owns that IP

That I would agree with. I was speaking as a mainstream gamer that mostly only plays mainstream AAA releases and doesn't care much for the B tier franchiese. Of those, Metroid is really the only one I'd greatly miss. And Metroidvania clones are a dime of dozen in the indie scene (and I like the 2D genre better than the 3D versions like the Prime series).

But fair point for those that do like them. Though I'd argue that those mid-tier time games are largely dying anyway. They still cost to much to make to justify given their sales levels, and indie games have devalued the b-tier scene as people either expect a polished AAA experience for $60 at launch and $40 or less down the road, or indie games at $5-15 a pop.