Support NeoGAF

[fabricated backlash]

I've been saying for years they should have done this (or at least wholly cover the cost for porting) for games launching in the first three years of the Wii U's life.

It would have set an impossibly dangerous precedent for third party relations, but it's a more comfortable noose than the one they used to kill the Wii U.

Yeah no, if the Bayonetta Announcement is anything to go by, most people would've just rather ignored those exclusives rather than to defect their console loyalty.
As much as 3rd parties want to believe it, a majority of players are still platform biased and don't care for their games if they're not on their platform of choice.

And the few that begrudgingly buy it, will not stop moaning about how they wish the game were on a better machine... yadda yadda.

 

[smashballTaz]

Things seemed to be going so well in the run up to the WiiU's launch. CoD, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, unique asymmetrical multiplayer gameplay options, no need for stupid 10 digit friend codes, a great-looking unique horror game, full online, DLCs, FREE online, mass-market friendly apps like Netflix, its new social media Miiverse thing, FaceTime-esque videochat..

Its such a shame it didn't capture the public's imagination. Nintendoland was great but it needed it Wii Sports equivalent. Super Mario Maker might have just been that, perhaps.

Lets nope the NX does a LOT better. And I'm saying that as someone who LOVES his Wii U and has had one since launch.

 

[Markoman]

Sony wasn't starting from scratch with the Western core market like Nintendo would be. If performance was really the only "good incentive" they had over XB1, I guarantee you PS4 would have failed.

For sure and Nintendo still has tons of homework to do, but they need every little straw to get there.

My opinion goes something like this:
Try to compete on hardware level for the first time in over 10 years.

The alternatives are:
a) niche market with side-income
b) leave the HW business and concentrate on software.

One thing for sure: There won't be 3 subsequent Nintendo home consoles selling around 10 mio units in the future.

 

[Ansatz]

This argument assumes that the main problem with the Wii U was that Nintendo couldn't release software at a steady rate. I don't think that it's supported by the ways sales spiked when large games were released. The latter suggests that the audience for Nintendo games is fairly limited, and that there is almost no reach outside of it.

My goal is to find a strategy that Nintendo can survive on without going third party, nor change their fundamental game design direction.

A 50-60M userbase per generation cycle can be profitable if everything is executed accordingly. Meanwhile chase growth in other sectors to please investors.

 

[Fourth Storm]

I think too many people fall into this same pitfall of thinking. They only think about better hardware, with all of the functionality found in todays systems, but seldom think of having unique hardware attributes, or games designing its inputs around its physicality and features (just take a look at the DS and 3DS). I think that entirely changes the dynamics of particular genres. In fact, alternative control methods like gyro aiming are slowly superceding the twinstick meathod as a better alternative to traditional mouse & keyboard.

Even Valve designing the Steam controller with those trackpads was met with criticism, but I think in the end was good for the market, because it forces developers to think outside the usual DualShock-like setup established by the medium. I'd go on to say even the DualShock is not the holy grail of control setups most people make it up to be. So I disagree with the industry needing to impose a standard with regards to game setups.

tl;dr - Standardization isn't as fun, and fun is what games should be.

I agree wholeheartedly. I would like to see Nintendo evolve the standard controller once again. Right now, MS and Valve are currently showing them up in terms of innovations. I'd love to see a device with a dpad and analog stick on the left and a Steam controller-esque trackpad on the right. Maybe throw in those scroll wheel shoulder buttons from that Nintendo patent. And paddles + modular inputs.

There's a pretty high bar now. I love my Wii U Pro, but it's starting to feel low tech!

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Yeah no, if the Bayonetta Announcement is anything to go by, most people would've just rather ignored those exclusives rather than to defect their console loyalty.
As much as 3rd parties want to believe it, a majority of players are still platform biased and don't care for their games if they're not on their platform of choice.

And the few that begrudgingly buy it, will not stop moaning about how they wish the game were on a better machine... yadda yadda.

I think that's oversimplyfing it.

It's not so much platform loyalty as not wanting to buy a platform for just one game. I mean for a diehard Bayonetta fan who's into that, DMC, GoW etc., and doesn't like Nintendo games there isn't a whole lot else on Wii U for them to play.

If it had stayed a 360 exclusive last gen, and the sequel went to the PS4 this gen there wouldn't have been nearly as many gripes.

 

[ZOONAMI]

What's the likelihood of Nintendo including 4k Blu-ray support? That would be a differentiator, although Sony and MS will likely release revisions that add support.

People always discount the importance of movie support, but people always ask if my wii u plays Blu-ray and dvds and are disappointed when the answer is no. Have seen it a few times with mom's asking retail employees and bailing on the purchase when they find out it doesn't play movies. People see it as a major value add.

 

[Fourth Storm]

What's the likelihood of Nintendo including 4k Blu-ray support? That would be a differentiator, although Sony and MS will likely release revisions that add support.

People always discount the importance of movie support, but people always ask if my wii u plays Blu-ray and dvds and are disappointed when the answer is no. Have seen it time and time again with mom's asking retail employees and bailing on the purchase when they find out it doesn't play movies. People see it as a major value add.

Yeah, this is something they need to change. See my idea a few pages back. I think they should do two skus. One digital and the other with an optical drive and actual Blu Ray support. If you're gonna have a drive in this day and age, make it worth it. Discs are going to become more a novelty and hold over going forward. Many games won't be able to afford the risk of physical distribution. Nintendo's will of course. And if they manage to get traditional console 3rd party support...

 

[Nanashrew]

BC is an outdated concept. It's also expensive. PS4 has proven that you can resell old games (remastered) to the masses and they will eat that shit up rather than allow you to pop your old discs in the new console.

It also doesn't help that, like 9 people bought Wii Us. NX should be a clean break.

Depends. The handheld is likely going to be backwards compatibile with 3DS games because of ARM just like all previous handhelds without many cost hurdles. What made 3DS expensive was likely the glassless 3D, gyroscope and accelerometer.

Home console side it would be more expensive, but I imagine if they stick with ARM from NX onward, keeping architecture same/similar and the same OS, BC will not be a problem at all. Apple does it all the time with their systems.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

By the end of 2016 or so, they could release something comparable for around $300. And if it launches with a few quality multiplats and exclusives like the new Zelda, I think it would turn quite a few heads within the core market that they need to be trying to win back.

The only heads Zelda would turn at launch are of the people that are actually bothered about the franchise: Nintendo gamers. And even then, Zelda - sales wise - is not as hot as it used to be.

 

[James Scott]

What's the likelihood of Nintendo including 4k Blu-ray support? That would be a differentiator, although Sony and MS will likely release revisions that add support.

People always discount the importance of movie support, but people always ask if my wii u plays Blu-ray and dvds and are disappointed when the answer is no. Have seen it a few times with mom's asking retail employees and bailing on the purchase when they find out it doesn't play movies. People see it as a major value add.

With digital services like Netflix the importance of bluray support isn't as big as last gen. I don't think they'll support it

 

[fabricated backlash]

I think that's oversimplyfing it.

It's not so much platform loyalty as not wanting to buy a platform for just one game. I mean for a diehard Bayonetta fan who's into that, DMC, GoW etc., and doesn't like Nintendo games there isn't a whole lot else on Wii U for them to play.

If it had stayed a 360 exclusive last gen, and the sequel went to the PS4 this gen there wouldn't have been nearly as many gripes.

It's always going to be another excuse: If only it were 50 bucks cheaper, if only it had *insert arbitrary number* of exclusive games more, if only it had proper accounts...

I don't give any credence to these theories anymore, and it's why I don't see any value in Nintendo trying to appeal to that crowd.

 

[Dreamwriter]

The only heads Zelda would turn at launch are of the people that are actually bothered about the franchise: Nintendo gamers. And even then, Zelda - sales wise - is not as hot as it used to be.

Zelda is a system seller, it doesn't matter about game sales. People will buy a system for Zelda in droves. As for "Nintendo gamers", the majority of gamers have owned at least one Nintendo system in their lifetime, and were raised on the NES (because the average console/handheld gamer is 37 years old)

Personally, I think the NX should ship with as many AAA Nintendo franchises as possible - a real Zelda game, a 3D Mario, and a Mario Kart would give the system a stellar start, enough to get a good enough audience to attract third parties.

 

[sfried]

I guess I'm just getting old and burnt out on technology and keeping up with advances. I'm only 36, but I really have no interest motion controls, VR, etc. Gyro aiming in Splatoon is ok, but I'd still use the dual sticks if it had aim assist like most dual stick shooters, and my aim is way worse in Splatoon with gyro than games like Destiny.

But honestly, it's probably not age. I've always struggled with adapting to controls. Moving from D-pads to the N64 analog stick took me quite a while. I could never get a handle on keyboard and mouse controls in shooters (the keyboard part killed me), had a terrible time getting half decent at dual analog shooters (and even after 13 years or whatever since I first played Halo I still can't aim well or fast enough to be any good in competitive shooters), and I hated the Wii motion controls.

So I'm all for as many more generations of two sticks, face buttons and triggers that I can get. After that, I'll probably drop out and just go apeshit on emulators and roms and just be a retro gamer. I've never been a super hardcore gamer so there are TONS of games from every generation I never got around to, that could last me the rest of my lifetime easily.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you at all. I thought pointer aiming with the Wii remote was actually a nice feature (The way it was implemented in later FPS on the system at least), but the N64's control stick just felt natural, and in my opinion the most natural, out of all the analog sticks. I'd go as far to say that every successive analog stick has just felt too wobbly (even the GameCube's and Wii U Pro Controller's!).

As of today I'm 31 and I'm still wanting a better input that would capture certain nuances that couldn't be done on a conventional standardized XInput/DualShock setup.

 

[Clefargle]

ITT: DOOM

 

[KingBroly]

I agree wholeheartedly. I would like to see Nintendo evolve the standard controller once again. Right now, MS and Valve are currently showing them up in terms of innovations. I'd love to see a device with a dpad and analog stick on the left and a Steam controller-esque trackpad on the right. Maybe throw in those scroll wheel shoulder buttons from that Nintendo patent. And paddles + modular inputs.

There's a pretty high bar now. I love my Wii U Pro, but it's starting to feel low tech!

eh...I think the XBO controller is a step back from the 360 controller. The d-pad is the biggest step forward, but the triggers and bumpers are just bad; almost weightless. The Steam Controller just seems like a non-entity since that market is already so saturated with controllers.

I guess the biggest think I'm looking forward to with NX is not having to hook up a fucking sensor bar.

 

[Rösti]

Nothing of interest was added, as far as I can tell, to any of the sites I have access to via the development portal. Primarily they updated some help sections of the Nex server MAnagement System (NMAS) and Online Title MAnagement System (OMAS).

 

[PdotMichael]

It's always going to be another excuse: If only it were 50 bucks cheaper, if only it had *insert arbitrary number* of exclusive games more, if only it had proper accounts...

I don't give any credence to these theories anymore, and it's why I don't see any value in Nintendo trying to appeal to that crowd.

So, how do we make the NX successful? That market which bought already 40 million PS4 and Xbox One consoles is obviously gone, so which market is interested in a NX console without third party support and how large is that market?

 

[ZOONAMI]

With digital services like Netflix the importance of bluray support isn't as big as last gen. I don't think they'll support it

Right this is what gaf always says, but people like to buy physical media. That's why huge amounts of floor space are still dedicated to it at best buy, target, etc.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

The Wii was great, but it had a fundamental problem. A lot of casuals, chances of them purchasing another console are slim to none. Going after casuals means you have to be prepared to accept they may not follow in to the next generation. How often are casual gamers asking when the console is releasing?

 

[GhostTrick]

I agree wholeheartedly. I would like to see Nintendo evolve the standard controller once again. Right now, MS and Valve are currently showing them up in terms of innovations. I'd love to see a device with a dpad and analog stick on the left and a Steam controller-esque trackpad on the right. Maybe throw in those scroll wheel shoulder buttons from that Nintendo patent. And paddles + modular inputs.

There's a pretty high bar now. I love my Wii U Pro, but it's starting to feel low tech!

To be fair, I really love the idea of scrolling wheel clickable as a should button. This is the next thing I want in a controller.

So, how do we make the NX successful?

Solid ecosystem sharing library on nice devices with a fair price.
Solid library with great exclusives and new IPs.
Solid legacy catalog with VC.

 

[KingBroly]

Right this is what gaf always says, but people like to buy physical media. That's why huge amounts of floor space are still dedicated to it at best buy, target, etc.

More and more shelf space is being dedicated to non-disc based devices which having streaming capabilities.

 

[ironcreed]

The only heads Zelda would turn at launch are of the people that are actually bothered about the franchise: Nintendo gamers. And even then, Zelda - sales wise - is not as hot as it used to be.

I don't know. I think there are a lot of holdouts who have been skipping over Nintendo because of their hardware, but have been waiting for them to come back with a competitive, more modern system. Of course Zelda would just be one of the enticing morsels they could have on offer for launch.

My point is that I think a lot of people would gladly go back to Nintendo if they would only offer the right hardware, at a fair price, and with a great selection of games. I have seen people clamoring for it for years now. The interest is most certainly there and it would be in their best interest to cater to it, rather than repeating the same mistakes.

 

[Fourth Storm]

This argument assumes that the main problem with the Wii U was that Nintendo couldn't release software at a steady rate. I don't think that it's supported by the ways sales spiked when large games were released. The latter suggests that the audience for Nintendo games is fairly limited, and that there is almost no reach outside of it.


The problem here is that you're already positing pricing parity with the PS4, and the PS4 is going to be a vastly more appealing product under that circumstance. Basically, the NX console is being setup for failure even if it launches with a bunch of top-notch titles. The only way for it to gain traction under this circumstance would be to offer something really enticing, and software likely won't be sufficient.

I don't even think that a "new and surprising" will be enough. That was successful for the Wii, but only because Nintendo was targeting an underserved demographic. This audience isn't underserved any more, so a lot more will be needed to bring them back. What Nintendo really needs is to tap into audiences who already spend a fair bit on console games - but they've been reluctant to cater to them for a long time.

Look at it this way: There are ~100 million Wii owners and ~150 million DS owners, most of whom have not died I would hope. They are not a lost cause just because cell phones now play good casual games. And Nintendo will be there on mobile, remember, visible. As they will be at Universal Parks and gods know where else.

Old NES players. Old N64 players. They can be targeted and won back with specific titles. They have $249-$299 to spend these days if there's a game they can't resist.

I know people (laughs), but the "one game" idea holds merit. Only it can't always just be one game to rule them all, but a series of games, each of which is that "one game" to a certain group of former Nintendo users.

 

[James Scott]

So, how do we make the NX successful?

Marketing, managing the image of the system at the start. Wii U was a system that despite amassing a respectable library only became less desirable as time went on. That's doable, I'd think. They need to make a catchy slogan and a name that's not embarrassing to say in public. It needs to have a price that matches the hype and they can't keep silent about it too long less negative articles show up.
The game library could be pretty stellar this time around and they need to leverage that.

 

[ZOONAMI]

More and more shelf space is being dedicated to non-disc based devices which having streaming capabilities.

Yeah whatever man, there's like one little kiosk for streaming players at my targets and best buys, and like 5-10 whole fucking rows of movies.

 

[fabricated backlash]

So, how do we make the NX successful?

Surely by employing a follow the leader attitude. I mean at this stage, Nintendo could either come up with their own unique approach, or fight for the scraps left over by Sony and MS by basically making a Nintendo branded PS4 and become a bottom feeder also ran contestant.

 

[heidern]

The design of the NX will depend on Nintendo's underlying strategy. Up until now they've been aiming to release something different to their competitors and trying to expand the gaming population. With the DS and Wii they more fully went towards a blue ocean. However with the prevalence of smartphones it could be argued that blue ocean hardware is no longer necessary. The best vehicle to expand the gaming population is now arguably blue ocean software on mobile.

In that case they may decide that the best avenue for growth in console is to go back into the red ocean and compete with Sony/MS directly. The limits of that market and it's players have been exposed and it would be a lot easier to compete in now. MS are already under pressure to exit the market and added competition from Nintendo could be the tipping point that forces them out at which point Nintendo would back themselves take on Sony one against one.

So I'd expect either
1) An underpowered console at $249 that will rely on the success of it's gimmick(which may be in addition to or part of the tablet controller), targeting Nintendo fans, maybe blue ocean and maybe red ocean(as a second console).
2) A $299 console that matches or slightly exceeds PS4 with a tablet controller as a USP(but this time able to leverage 3rd party games and better first party games). Targeting Nintendo fans and red ocean as a second console.
3) A $399 console that is significantly more powerful than PS4(as in half a generation ahead, perhaps with 16GB or even 32GB of RAM for example and tablet controller). Targeting Nintendo fans and fully going for the red ocean as a primary console.

If they decide not to go blue ocean then they won't be wasting resources and expectations on things like Wii Fit U and instead investing in some red ocean games whether they are Nintendo like(Splatoon) or targeting the Sony audience. Could be things like a Retro FPS, more adult oriented Zelda, another Ubisoft exclusive, signing up Kojima, working with Platinum etc in addition to having the best version of third party games.

 

[PdotMichael]

Solid ecosystem sharing library on nice devices with a fair price.
Solid library with great exclusives and new IPs.
Solid legacy catalog with VC.

Marketing, managing the image of the system at the start. Wii U was a system that despite amassing a respectable library only became less desirable as time went on. That's doable, I'd think. They need to make a catchy slogan and a name that's not embarrassing to say in public. It needs to have a price that matches the hype and they can't keep silent about it too long less negative articles show up.

So more of the same is the strategy.

You guys are sure creative. But I guess without ambitions you can't fail.

 

[KingBroly]

Yeah whatever man, there's like one little kiosk for streaming players at my targets and best buys, and like 5-10 whole fucking rows of movies.

And what are Smartphones and Tablets then?

 

[James Scott]

So more of the same is the strategy.

You guys are sure creative.

That's like the opposite of what they've done so far?

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Zelda is a system seller, it doesn't matter about game sales. People will buy a system for Zelda in droves. As for "Nintendo gamers", the majority of gamers have owned at least one Nintendo system in their lifetime, and were raised on the NES (because the average console/handheld gamer is 37 years old)

Personally, I think the NX should ship with as many AAA Nintendo franchises as possible - a real Zelda game, a 3D Mario, and a Mario Kart would give the system a stellar start, enough to get a good enough audience to attract third parties.

Yes, Zelda is a system seller. To Nintendo fans on the fence that have been waiting for the title so they have a good excuse to buy the system. And probably to a few PS/XBox owners that want a second system. I don't think anyone else is that bothered about them. I'm sure at one time Zelda used to be a system seller, but it's not to the extent some people still think it is these days.

 

[PdotMichael]

Surely by employing a follow the leader attitude. I mean at this stage, Nintendo could either come up with their own unique approach, or fight for the scraps left over by Sony and MS by basically making a Nintendo branded PS4 and become a bottom feeder also ran contestant.

Yeah, that exclusive output would suddenly disappears if they are trying to get some third party support.

 

[Ansatz]

I don't know. I think there are a lot of holdouts who have been skipping over Nintendo because of their hardware, but have been waiting for them to come back with a competitive, more modern system. Of course Zelda would just be one of the enticing morsels they could have on offer for launch.

My point is that I think a lot of people would gladly go back to Nintendo if they would only offer the right hardware, at a fair price, and with a great selection of games. I have seen people clamoring for it for years now. The interest is most certainly there and it would be in their best interest to cater to it, rather than repeating the same mistakes.

Zelda would have to turn into a WRPG to appeal to non Nintendo gamers nowadays. Literally a Skyrim clone. Zelda as we know it only reaches fans and enthusiasts.

 

[Nanashrew]

On the discussion of the casual market.

Casuals are always going to be important to acquire on the console side of business for continued growth of the medium. If no company tries to go for them or even bother to rebuild it then consoles will continue to stagnate and decline catering to a smaller and smaller enthusiast market. It's very common for men around the age of 30 to stop playing games because most might have a full time career and family to worry about.

Console makers like Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft should be doing their all to keep them around and find ways to make them the enthusiast gamer.

 

[Papacheeks]

Hm. But at that point why do you even want it to be Nintendo if they are primarily getting what other consoles have?

Maybe I sound dumb. Someone enlighten me.

Did I say they are going to have what all the other consoles have?

I said they need to cater to different regions? DO you understand what I'm talking about?

Meaning having developers develop exclusive games for different regions. Imagine a rocket league type soccer game for UK, Europe.

Imagine more splatoon type games, and a shooter made by platinum for the west.(think vanquish multiplayer, or coach/online co-op).


That's their issue they develop in a bubble, if they had outside studios from different regions making games they just over saw, for quality assurance, they would be in a much better position.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Yeah, that exclusive output would suddenly disappears if they are trying to get some third party support.

It wouldn't, but I fail to see how getting third parties would change anything for them.
Unless those 3rd party relations go beyond the bog standard: here's your shoddy ass port with cut features and no marketing, like it has been so far with Nintendo and 3rd parties.

And honestly, I kinda have my doubts that Nintendo wants to pay for that.

 

[4Tran]

Look at it this way: There are ~100 million Wii owners and ~150 million DS owners, most of whom have not died I would hope. They are not a lost cause just because cell phones now play good casual games. And Nintendo will be there on mobile, remember, visible. As they will be at Universal Parks and gods know where else.

You can't simply take all of these owners and think of them as potential customers, because they're not anymore. You have to separate all of these owners by who they are and what their needs are. If those needs are already satisfied, is there any realistic way to still reach them? For the most part, there isn't because their needs were relatively modest and the convenience factor of phones and tablets are overriding factors. It's not something just happening in the game industry either - the point and shoot camera segment has basically been eaten up by smart phones for similar reasons.

I know people (laughs), but the "one game" idea holds merit. Only it can't always just be one game to rule them all, but a series of games, each of which is that "one game" to a certain group of former Nintendo users.

I don't think that the one game idea ever had any merit.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I think mobile is more key than the portable NX. The dedicated portable gaming market is evaporating in the west. So best case is they have good success with it in the East. Mobile is key as it's a new revenue stream, and will help them see how their games fair from a third party standpoint so they can better evaluate going forward if the NX fails.

To the bolded. I agree and disagree. I grew up on NES and SNES, and have owned every Nintendo console and portable (not every version of each of course) sans the Virtual Boy. So I'm rooting for them, and I try to help out by buying their hardware, every game of theirs I'm remotely interested in, Amiibo etc.

But at the same time, I don't think it would be the end of the world if they were eventually forced to go third party. People point to Sega, but that's just very different. First, they're games were always way more niche than Nintendo, and appealed more to the hardcore crowd. That just became nonviable as game development costs rose and games needed to reach much larger audiences to be profitable. Many Nintendo franchises have wide appeal (look at the huge software sales on Wii and DS). Second, they lost a lot of talent and their consoles first party libraries just declined after the Genesis. Still some great games, but just not enough to be competitive. Nintendo is still putting out tons of great games, the 3DS and Wii U combined have a hell of a library.

So I think they'd be very successful as a third or second party. The DeNa mobile games will be a good test of that, and how their IP appeals to crowds outside of their own dedicated hardware.

So essentially with mobile, they need to try and develop a model that pushes the portable closer to mobile, and the mobile experience closer to the portable one, without getting into the nasty territory that is F2P pay-to-win and microtransactions? In such a way I agree with that. I wouldn't be surprised if the NX portable provides some apps that can make it behave more like a smartphone. Not exactly like a smartphone mind, but something in that area regarding features. At the very least they'll make it easy to set up accounts and transfer data to and from mobile to portable, and arguably it'd be the same with the console.

I wouldn't argue that the Sega parallel is out-of-place, though. Like Sega, a large bulk of Nintendo's library exists mainly to justify and diversify their own hardware offerings. It's the reason they pushed out stuff like Chibi Robo on GC, or why something like Wii Sport ever existed in the first place. If they went third party you can say goodbye to:

• F-Zero
• Metroid
• Star Fox
• Donkey Kong (maybe)
• Xenoblade
• W101 (if Nintendo owns the IP)
• Bayonetta (again, if Nintendo owns that IP

...just to name a few. They just do not bring in money like Mario and Zelda do, and that's going to be even more important for them without a hardware line to go with. Arguably, Nintendo could drop consoles and still keep hardware, but I don't think the R&D expenses would be worth it unless they went high-tech on the portable. I'm talking pushing into (and beyond) Apple iPhone 7 or whatever territory, which is something they've never done before and I doubt ever will.

Don't know if it's as simple as saying Sega's games were more niche as a reason they are relatively worst off as a third-party than Nintendo could potentially be. Truth is Nintendo and Sega's stuff appealed to virtually the same demographics going from NES to DC/GC. They both did platformers, they both did arcade racers, etc. The differences are that one of them had most of that appeal originate in a now-dead segment of gaming (arcades), and the other had a chance to build up a nostalgia factor with late teens/adults of today that a certain other hasn't to quite that degree. And it's that nostalgia that's given (most of) the IP their reach to more casual circles, not the inherent mainstreamness of those IP, given they're in the same genres as competitors.

I also think there's some misunderstanding on why Sega left the hardware market, but ironically the truth there could also be a reason why Nintendo could theoretically fare better. A lot of people say the Dreamcast's library was too arcade-oriented, and yes that's probably true. But so was a lot of the PS2's. The real reason (if anyone's going to look at the library) was because it didn't offer enough cinematic, story-driven (and eventually open-world) games and FPSs to compliment the heavy arcade-driven library. Arcade-style gaming (in most genres anyhow) is very much popular again, but so are cinematic story-driven games and FPSs, the likes of which have increased in importance since the PS2 era. The Wii U's library itself isn't so much an issue as in regards the games (too many platformers maybe, but you can say PS4/XBO have too many FPSers), but that there isn't enough variety both in genre and demographics.

Nintendo knows they have literally zero chance of fixing that with their own internal studios, so their best hope is to strike deals with developers who can provide such. Not just AAA ones, either; there are lots of indie games out there that can cover the void if they bother looking for them.

 

[ironcreed]

Surely by employing a follow the leader attitude. I mean at this stage, Nintendo could either come up with their own unique approach, or fight for the scraps left over by Sony and MS by basically making a Nintendo branded PS4 and become a bottom feeder also ran contestant.

A unique approach? Boy, that sure worked well with the Wii U. They should definitely take that risk again!

But seriously, going all in with a modern system would not be playing follow the leader, it would be competing and finally paying attention to the market who would be most interested in buying their system to begin with. And who is to say that the system could not also have some unique features as well?

 

[axisofweevils]

I think the NX could easily outsell the 3DS. A lot of people forget about this, but the 3DS had one of the worst starts it was possible to imagine for a console.

The media health scare stories about how the completely optional 3D effect increased blood pressure and made kids blind...

The lengthy delay before the eshop was available...

Third parties delaying and cancelling their games leaving the 3DS with a barebones line-up for the first 9 months...

Pokemon Black and White being a DS game while the 3DS line up was empty...

The embarassing price drop and ambassador program....

The 1-star Layton amazon reviewers who didn't understand the concept of console
generations and tried to cut the extra 3DS cartridge tab off to get it to work on the DS....

Nintendo posting their first ever loss....

The reaction when Nintendo unveiled the Circle Pad Pro monstrosity. That French site
saying that Nintendo realised the single stick was a complete mistake and that a dual stick 3DS was on the way imminently to compete with the Vita...

In the beginning, you couldn't read a 3DS article without a paragraph on how the better specced, hardcore Vita was waiting in the wings - the Vita was basically portrayed as the answer to gamer's prayers. It had dual-sticks, OLED, exclusive CoD and Ass Creed games and it was the same price as the 3DS! What could possibly go wrong?

You name a hurdle, the 3DS had to jump over it at the start of its life. Hopefully though, the NX handheld won't have such a hill to climb. For starters, it probably won't have 3D (no health related articles) and there won't be any Vita-like competition.

 

[Jumpman23]

What are the odds of multi-touch input coming to the handheld/console? Screen orientation (vertical vs. horizontal).


I have to say, its absence thus far has been noticed especially with so many touch devices becoming popular on the market (iPhone, iPod, Android, Laptop screens, etc.). It could also make for easier porting from those markets to Nintendo's own. The more I think about it, the more I think the handheld needs to incorporate some of the latest phone tech to stay relevant (multi-touch input, screen orientation) with today's kids, many of which already have some of these devices.

 

[PdotMichael]

That's like the opposite of what they've done so far?

Better marketing etc. are so emtpy words.

How do you want to market and build hype around a console where you can write the release list for the next 6 months on a beer coaster? Even if you double the WiiU output, it would be still a wasteland.

It wouldn't, but I fail to see how getting third parties would change anything for them.
Unless those 3rd party relations go beyond the bog standard: here's your shoddy ass port with cut features and no marketing, like it has been so far with Nintendo and 3rd parties.

And honestly, I kinda have my doubts that Nintendo wants to pay for that.

Well, Nintendo would also need to give third parties final dev kits not just 9 months before the launch. That's third party relationship 101.

 

[Papacheeks]

Right, I agree, I just feel it's a monumental uphill battle in a market that couldn't be worse conditions. I know a lot of older Nintendo fans dream of a day when Nintendo goes back into the hardware race and produces GameCube 2.0, but I just don't see it as viable.

Well if Sony and Microsoft can come back from branding, and mis-guided console disasters so can NINTENDO.

And their brand has an even bigger opportunity to have a reemergence, and comback in market share.

They just need to open up as a company. That's their issue to me that's holding everything back potential wise. Japan, USA and UK need to talk to one another and have some creative say.

You can't let your company operate out of one region and make decisions that are so removed from other regions of your company.

 

[ironcreed]

Zelda would have to turn into a WRPG to appeal to non Nintendo gamers nowadays. Literally a Skyrim clone. Zelda as we know it only reaches fans and enthusiasts.

Good thing they could and most probably will launch with more than Zelda then. But even then, if the game looks great enough and is marketed right, there is certainly room to bring people back and newcomers alike.

 

[ZOONAMI]

And what are Smartphones and Tablets then?

Smartphones and tablets? Electronic devices vs media. You may also notice people still like to buy physical games, even though you can buy them digitally. Oh and smartphones and tablets also play games. Doesn't equate to the demise of physical media. People like buying shit they can hold in their hands and put on a shelf. People also still buy books. Yes these mediums might be declining in sales, but they are nowhere near dead. That's why people like being able to play movie discs with their game consoles.

 

[Nanashrew]

What are the odds of multi-touch input coming to the handheld/console? Screen orientation (vertical vs. horizontal).


I have to say, its absence thus far has been noticed especially with so many touch devices becoming popular on the market (iPhone, iPod, Android, Laptop screens, etc.). It could also make for easier porting from those markets to Nintendo's own. The more I think about it, the more I think the handheld needs to incorporate some of the latest phone tech to stay relevant (multi-touch input, screen orientation) with today's kids, many of which already have some of these devices.

Depends on the price and if you want a stylus ranging from $30 to $100. Styluses will always be important for accuracy.

 

[Trevelyan9999]

Zelda would have to turn into a WRPG to appeal to non Nintendo gamers nowadays. Literally a Skyrim clone. Zelda as we know it only reaches fans and enthusiasts.

If Zelda looks amazing enough and if the NX is as powerful as rumor/info suggest, being a Skyrim clone will matter less. People will buy what is most visually amazing.

I see this happening for the NX launch:

NX Portable = $199

NX Console = $299

NX Ultimate (portable & console) = $499 (or $450 depending on promos)

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I think you guys are dramatically underestimating how difficult it would be for Nintendo to make a PS4 level console at the same price as the PS4.

The Wii U is almost as expensive as the PS4 and its almost a full generation behind, same with the 3DS in comparison to the Vita.

Nintendo is doing something wrong.

 

[Father_Brain]

Zelda is a system seller, it doesn't matter about game sales. People will buy a system for Zelda in droves. As for "Nintendo gamers", the majority of gamers have owned at least one Nintendo system in their lifetime, and were raised on the NES (because the average console/handheld gamer is 37 years old)

Personally, I think the NX should ship with as many AAA Nintendo franchises as possible - a real Zelda game, a 3D Mario, and a Mario Kart would give the system a stellar start, enough to get a good enough audience to attract third parties.

Attract third parties? Well, if you mean the handful of casual/family franchises that NX is all but guaranteed to get anyway (Skylanders, Lego, Disney Infinity, Just Dance), sure.