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[Shikamaru Ninja]

Agreed. So is there any evidence that Nintendo has been staffing up in the West with this in mind? Granted, NDAs would make it hard to say for sure, but I feel like there'd have been some rumblings by now.

Let's be sensible in understanding that Western first-party games don't actually have to come by Nintendo buying 20 developers. Nintendo merely has to procure the prospective games and back them up. This was really how Nintendo of America was shining back in the N64 days. I'm not sure they still value that Western dedicated focus like they once did.

The few Western developers under their publishing umbrella (Retro, Monster, Next Level) are essentially continuing older NCL IPs. Mainly Japanese friendly IPs.

 

[Ansatz]

There is always room for Nintendo hardware as long as they don't play the same game as ms and sony and valve. Trying to make the nx into another fps machine in an over crowded market of fps machines would be silly - yet apparently the approach of many on gaf.

I don't understand why it is so hard to accept the concept of having a Nintendo platform consisting of a handheld and console that share the same games, with a lineup that resembles the combined libraries of 3DS and Wii U.

It's basically a machine you get specifically for Nintendo 1st party games. You can choose which form factor you prefer (TV experience/local multiplayer or portable gaming) and with only one device get full access to Nintendo's entire output.

The target audience is simple: people who like Pokemon, Mario and Zelda.

 

[Father_Brain]

Let's be sensible in understanding that Western first-party games don't actually have to come by Nintendo buying 20 developers. Nintendo merely has to procure the prospective games and back them up. This was really how Nintendo of America was shining back in the N64 days. I'm not sure they still value that Western dedicated focus like they once did.

The few Western developers under their publishing umbrella (Retro, Monster, Next Level) are essentially continuing older NCL IPs. Mainly Japanese friendly IPs.

Right, I may not have been clear, but by "staffing up" I also meant partnering with existing core-oriented Western studios.

 

[jroc74]

Have you seen some ultra low setting mods for pc? People have gotten it to run at between 20 to 30 fps in a laptops with very weak hardware, by basically sacrificing every graphical effect and reducing most textures to blurry messes. The RAM is really the big question though, I guess.

In addition to that, the actual issue is that they wouldn't want to release a version of the game that makes it look like crap, but, in this case, they'd have the console NX and could market only that version. It'd be just automatically compatible with the portable too.

Yea...Nintendo needs to get up to date on the RAM. Sony and MS both went so far ahead.....I would guess it was due to input, suggestions from game developers.

Let's say that we have a gamer who primarily plays Call of Duty who has yet to buy a PS4/Xbone/Wii U but plans to buy a new console at Christmas 2016. Which console do you think this hypothetical gamer would gravitate towards?

When Call of Duty comes out on NX, he'll play it on that because it will be next-gen and include crazy new feature XXXX (my theory on XXXX has always been VR).

Not necessarily...this is where ecosystems come into play. That and for whatever reason (marketing, no clear vision, etc) that plan didnt work for the Wii U. It was next gen when it launched.. and also had a crazy new feature.

I had all 3 consoles last gen...and towards the release of next gen I got my last few sport games on PS3. Why? Thats where most of my friends, co workers played. Same for CoD, Battlefield. Current gen, guess where those same ppl are playing....and guess what I would have to get sport games for if I had all 3 current gen systems... (I have PS4 and Wii U so far) And last gen I started out getting most of my games on 360.

Sports, FPS, you name it...to play with my friends, co workers it meant only 1 console got those purchases. My gaming library was mostly 360 then it changed to PS3 from 2010 forward. Offline buddies caused the change.

I really believe Nintendo is caught between a rock and a hard place. Damned if they do, damned if they dont...from releasing a new console next year to trying to get some of those CoD buyers... But yea if they have some new hook....it could happen. But then Nintendo would have to hope that his friends and his friends friends join him playing on NX. Online and offline friends. Ecosystem... And no repeat of whatever caused the Wii U to fail in that same regard.

I have a PS4, Vita, Wii U and 3DS. I grew up on NES and SNES.

I love Nintendo games, but it's getting old buying their hardware just to play them. Even more so the last two gens with games held back by under-powered hardware, lacking online infrastructure etc.

In a perfect world, that partnership with Sony would have worked out, and they'd stayed on top like they were in the NES and SNES eras with the most powerful hardware, best first party games and great third party support.

A big part of the problem is that there's just not really room for three majorly successful consoles. Last gen is really the only time it happened, and only because the Wii expanded the market. Otherwise there's usually been two major player--with one clear winner and the other options largely sales failures.

NES--Master System bombed.
SNES--Genesis did well, but a clear second place.
PS1-N64 did ok, but distant second place. Saturn bombed.
PS2--dominated totally. GCN and Xbox both struggled and stayed WAY behind.

Yea...I've started going with this same theory lately. Last gen as a whole was an anomaly.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

The target audience is simple: people who like Pokemon, Mario and Zelda.

That's not a viable audience. Not by any means. Even on a theoretical first-party only machine, Nintendo's success has come when a larger catalog of their franchises do well.

Right, I may not have been clear, but by "staffing up" I also meant partnering with existing core-oriented Western studios.

It's all about publisher - developer contracts. SCE usually likes to do 2-3 game first-party publishing deals with freelance developers. Nintendo has a much more long-term contract situation with Next-Level Games, Monster Games, and Headstrong Games. But that's only like 3 developers (small to medium size at that).

 

[Vena]

Let's be sensible in understanding that Western first-party games don't actually have to come by Nintendo buying 20 developers. Nintendo merely has to procure the prospective games and back them up. This was really how Nintendo of America was shining back in the N64 days. I'm not sure they still value that Western dedicated focus like they once did.

The few Western developers under their publishing umbrella (Retro, Monster, Next Level) are essentially continuing older NCL IPs. Mainly Japanese friendly IPs.

After the successes of Splatoon which should have come as a damn needed wake-up call, I wouldn't be too surprised if we saw some larger individuality coming out of the studios. Also NLG was working on much more "western" titles before FedForces. PunchOut was an NA hit not so much a Japanese one, and Dark Moon similarly performed well here. They have been continuing (old) IP but with very different market focuses.

Retro, honestly, with their staffing up and growth, I'd either expect them to start making smaller side-projects akin to Garage program internally as the "EPD of the West" or to simply start tackling their own projects with newer IP ideas.

 

[Kouriozan]

The worse thing is Wii U IS a low value even for Nintendo fans because 1st party wise, the console has been a letdown. I don't think it's Nintendo's weakness to rely on their 1st party output. It's just that they didn't relied on it wisely.

The problem isn't the quality of those games, but rather that we get one every 6 months and there is still a lot of delay happening.
Yeah, those periods of drought are really really hard to bear.

 

[10k]

Other than GAF speculation, has there been anything new/ interesting the past 4000 comments? I'd love to read 'em all but I don't have the time..

Yes. The writer of the article claimed that the people he spoke to were impressed by a tech demo running off an NX emulator needed beefy hardware to run properly. Industry leading chips.

So to answer your question, no. 4000 posts of speculation only.

 

[Shikamaru Ninja]

Also NLG was working on much more "western" titles before FedForces. PunchOut was an NA hit not so much a Japanese one, and Dark Moon similarly performed well here. They have been continuing (old) IP but with very different market focuses.

Punch-Out and Metroid Prime: Federation Forces are still Japanese IP products. I mean it in a way, that Nintendo had a stretch where their American production team was cultivating original IPs out of the West for the Nintendo market.

Retro, honestly, with their staffing up and growth, I'd either expect them to start making smaller side-projects akin to Garage program internally as the "EPD of the West" or to simply start tackling their own projects with newer IP ideas.

They are just way too small to do that. Monolith, Retro, NDCube, NLG, MG, are pretty much straight forward game development studios for Nintendo. Nintendo's internal R&D is larger than all those developers combined, and have a larger purpose in making all sorts of prototypes that never reach the market, or end up as a future idea for something else. That's what GARAGE really was, an incentive to turn some of those traditional Nintendo prototype projects, into actual products. Splatoon was great but what the heck happened to the other 3 projects? Nintendo half bailed on Star Fox, since they were unwilling to give it full development resources internally. And the other two lackluster projects are probably never going to see release.

 

[ironcreed]

There is always room for Nintendo hardware as long as they don't play the same game as ms and sony and valve. Trying to make the nx into another fps machine in an over crowded market of fps machines would be silly - yet apparently the approach of many on gaf.

With their excellent first party, I would absolutely be all over a system that was just as powerful as the PS4 and featured many of the third party games as well. Which would also include some third party exclusive deals. It sure as shit beats the failed strategy of last-gen hardware and less games. If they don't change and try to cater to the actual market that would be interested in their system in the first place, then why even bother?

 

[CaviarMeths]

With their excellent first party, I would absolutely be all over a system that was just as powerful as the PS4 and featured many of the third party games as well. Which would also include some third party exclusive deals. It sure as shit beats the failed strategy of last-gen hardware and less games. If they don't change and try to cater to the actual market that would be interested in their system in the first place, then why even bother?

You just might be the only person on earth who would drop their entire PSN or XBL friends list to play CoD on Nintendo because it's Nintendo.

 

[-Horizon-]

I'd be ok with Nintendo not focusing on BC this time around. Plan for it starting from NX and going into the future though.

 

[atbigelow]

Yea...Nintendo needs to get up to date on the RAM. Sony and MS both went so far ahead.....I would guess it was due to input, suggestions from game developers..

The Wii U's RAM setup is super similar to the XBO's (DDR3 + eDRAM vs. DDR3 + eSRAM). Just not as new or with as much. Nintendo will be able to easily compete on that level.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I really think most of Nintendo's future success for both the handheld and console, lies in what they do with the handheld. The handheld needs to address the mobile space somehow. The DeNA mobile games are a good start, but that won't be enough. In any case I have faith they can figure out how to go about this because despite how hard I can be on Nintendo at times, the worst thing that could happen for everyone is if they left the hardware business.

I think mobile is more key than the portable NX. The dedicated portable gaming market is evaporating in the west. So best case is they have good success with it in the East. Mobile is key as it's a new revenue stream, and will help them see how their games fair from a third party standpoint so they can better evaluate going forward if the NX fails.

To the bolded. I agree and disagree. I grew up on NES and SNES, and have owned every Nintendo console and portable (not every version of each of course) sans the Virtual Boy. So I'm rooting for them, and I try to help out by buying their hardware, every game of theirs I'm remotely interested in, Amiibo etc.

But at the same time, I don't think it would be the end of the world if they were eventually forced to go third party. People point to Sega, but that's just very different. First, they're games were always way more niche than Nintendo, and appealed more to the hardcore crowd. That just became nonviable as game development costs rose and games needed to reach much larger audiences to be profitable. Many Nintendo franchises have wide appeal (look at the huge software sales on Wii and DS). Second, they lost a lot of talent and their consoles first party libraries just declined after the Genesis. Still some great games, but just not enough to be competitive. Nintendo is still putting out tons of great games, the 3DS and Wii U combined have a hell of a library.

So I think they'd be very successful as a third or second party. The DeNa mobile games will be a good test of that, and how their IP appeals to crowds outside of their own dedicated hardware.

I don't understand why it is so hard to accept the concept of having a Nintendo platform consisting of a handheld and console that share the same games, with a lineup that resembles the combined libraries of 3DS and Wii U.

It's basically a machine you get specifically for Nintendo 1st party games. You can choose which form factor you prefer (TV experience/local multiplayer or portable gaming) and with only one device get full access to Nintendo's entire output.

The target audience is simple: people who like Pokemon, Mario and Zelda.

I agree totally with this. Their biggest chance at selling well is having a killer game line up from day one, with few or no droughts. And this is doable if they go the unified library route as the 3DS and Wii U combo offer plenty of games for fans of Nintendo franchises. Being able to play them all on one machine would be awesome. Especially if the price is right--say $270-300 for the console and $150-170 for the portable. Some cheap, Apple TV like box that could play VC games up through the N64 would probably do fairly well too.

That makes all those things pretty attractive to Nintendo fans, kids/parents, and core gamers thinking about picking up a second or third console to get something different. The Wii U didn't at $350 with it's terrible first year lineup, and still lacking Metroid, a new Zelda, Star Fox (coming soon at least), a true Animal Crossing, etc. etc. Stuff like Pikmin, Nintendoland, Yoshi etc. just aren't substitutes for the big hitters as their more niche/fan servicey type of games.

 

[Pizza]

If Nintendo takes their handheld and console game output and slams them onto one framework or something along those lines that'd be a pretty impressive offering.

Having every one of Nintendo's studios in one place would be nuts, especially since I like 3DS games, but have started to dislike handheld consoles lately

 

[4Tran]

Current consoles can absolutely do this. Developers choose not to target those goals, choosing instead to go with flashier graphics(along with not spending the extra time and money on optimization). This won't change when consoles are more powerful, they'll just choose to go for even flashier graphics again to sell based on screenshots.

Exactly. 1080P/60FPS isn't an expression of a console's capabilities; it's an expression of the design goals of a particular game.

The target audience is simple: people who like Pokemon, Mario and Zelda.

For the console, this means you get the same audience of the Wii U. If Nintendo intends to have separate console and handheld software SKUs, Pokemon is the most likely franchise to stay handheld-only.

 

[ironcreed]

You just might be the only person on earth who would drop their entire PSN or XBL friends list to play CoD on Nintendo because it's Nintendo.

Pardon? I never mentioned CoD and I never said I would drop my PS4 or Xbox One. Though I might consider ditching one of them, if online was free.

I said that I would absolutely buy a modern Nintendo system that let me enjoy their great exclusives, as well as some of the multiplats that the other systems enjoy. Tons of gamers have been waiting for Nintendo to make a capable system again for this very reason and it sure as hell would be more successful than a Wii U 2 strategy.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

If they don't change and try to cater to the actual market that would be interested in their system in the first place, then why even bother?

The only logic would be if they could make more money finding a way to maximize success in their niche, than they could as a third party developer.

i.e.

-Sell hardware at a profit from day one, and sell enough of it to help reach the above.
-Make more money on their games from not paying any royalties to other platform holders
-Have a paid PS+ like service for online gaming, free access to some games monthly
-and so on.

My guess is with the NX they're taking a stab at doing that, while using the DeNa partnership both as another revenue source, and to test the waters of how their IP fares on other platforms if the above fails.

 

[ZOONAMI]

You just might be the only person on earth who would drop their entire PSN or XBL friends list to play CoD on Nintendo because it's Nintendo.

Well he's not the only one. If Nintendo had all the big western 3rd parties on board I would drop Sony and MS in a heartbeat. I could care less about virtual friends, they'll be replaced by new virtual NX friends from gaf.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

If Nintendo decides to drop PowerPC, what are their options for Backwards Compatibility? I can't imagine them dedicating significant R&D towards developing a Wii U emulator for it.

 

[sfried]

So I think they'd be very successful as a third or second party. The DeNa mobile games will be a good test of that, and how their IP appeals to crowds outside of their own dedicated hardware.

I disagree completely. Nintendo's key strength has always been how they integrted the game intimately with the hardware, which was why they never went, or at least tried to avoid, any sense of "standardizing" every generation. This is the reason they are able to push software that differenciates itself from most of the market. I'd argue most of these unique features are not always capitalized to the fullest, but when they are they feel incredibly fresh.

Having them design hardware is a key factor in keeping the console market alive. What will differenciate consoles from PCs in the long run if there isn't an eccentric thing that it can do? I mean, even a mid range PC nowdays can offer the same form of functionality and easy as the PS4 or XBO, in part thanks to Steam. Heck, you can even use the same controllers from those said consoles on your PC.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Well he's not the only one. If Nintendo had all the big western 3rd parties on board I would drop Sony and MS in a heartbeat. I could care less about virtual friends, they'll be replaced by new virtual NX friends from gaf.

But it's harder for those with real life friends they play online with. It's definitely a big factor for me as most of my closest friends live hundreds or thousands of miles away as we've all moved all over the place for jobs. Gaming online is the biggest ways we keep in touch and chat regularly.

It doesn't mean people can't switch. It just generally will require the dominant online platform doing something to screw up and cause a lot of their base to jump ship. Like MS did with their initial plans for the Xbox 1, and how many people switched to PS4. My whole gaming friend group did--at least the real life friends.

The PS4 is doing great, so there's nothing really Nintendo can do to get us to jump over to NX. Maybe if Sony botches something with the PS5, and Nintendo nails the NX and whatever it's successor is then a switch could happen.

I plan on buying an NX for sure, unless there's something I end up fundamentally disliking about it, as I've got to have my Nintendo games. But my online gaming with real friends will stay on PS4.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I hope to freaking god the NX is backwards compatible. I'm worried it won't be.

The Wii U has soooooooo many good games. Tropical Freeze, Splatoon, Mario Kart 8... I'm not convinced that whatever Mario Kart game Nintendo cooks up next is going to be as good as Mario Kart 8. Mario Kart 8 is freaking incredible.

It would be a real and true shame if the Wii U's fantastic lineup were forever restricted to a console with only four years on the market. And on a personal level... ugh, I just freaking love my Wii U collection.

But it's harder for those with real life friends they play online with. It's definitely a big factor for me as most of my closest friends live hundreds or thousands of miles away as we've all moved all over the place for jobs. Gaming online is the biggest ways we keep in touch and chat regularly.

You are super lucky you have IRL friends who play video games. Like, I love my friends, but it really sucks that I can't really talk about video games with them at all, much less play with them online.

 

[Markoman]

You just might be the only person on earth who would drop their entire PSN or XBL friends list to play CoD on Nintendo because it's Nintendo.

No one said that. Give them a good incentive and maybe they will do so.
What about the COD 360 crowd that went to PS4?

I remember all those "game x runs 1080p/30fps on PS4 and 900p/30fps on Xbox One" threads on GAF and I have witnessed many times how average joe's stick to this argument.

If Nintendo is able to generate news like "game x runs 1080p/30fps on PS4, 900p/30fps on Xbox One and 1080p/60fps on NX" people will have something to brag about.

 

[Father_Brain]

Pardon? I never mentioned CoD and I never said I would drop my PS4 or Xbox One. Though I might consider ditching one of them, if online was free.

I said that I would absolutely buy a modern Nintendo system that let me enjoy their great exclusives, as well as some of the multiplats that the other systems enjoy. Tons of gamers have been waiting for Nintendo to make a capable system again for this very reason and it sure as hell would be more successful than a Wii U 2 strategy.

Well he's not the only one. If Nintendo had all the big western 3rd parties on board I would drop Sony and MS in a heartbeat. I could care less about virtual friends, they'll be replaced by new virtual NX friends from gaf.

I'm sure he's not the only one, but the audience overlap between AAA Western third-party franchises and Mario, Zelda, etc. is not nearly enough in itself for such a Nintendo Corebox to be successful. At best, it'd sell GC numbers rather than Wii U numbers.

 

[Ansatz]

That's not a viable audience. Not by any means. Even on a theoretical first-party only machine, Nintendo's success has come when a larger catalog of their franchises do well.

They are expanding into territories outside of the traditional games market to look for growth (QoL, mobile) while I think that they should head into this theoretical 1st party only machine as a stable side business.

What are the other alternatives? Directly competing with Sony and MS is anything but viable.

 

[Vena]

Punch-Out and Metroid Prime: Federation Forces are still Japanese IP products. I mean it in a way, that Nintendo had a stretch where their American production team was cultivating original IPs out of the West for the Nintendo market.

I know they are, I said as much. What I was talking about was that the franchises had had western appeal more than Japanese, which was antithetical to the idea that they are only being contracted to work on "Japanese Friendly IP". (Even DKTF for Retro was aimed at the west, because that was where its predecessor really hit it off.) These projects were more "Western Friendly IP" than anything else.

I'd say that the bigger problem (or underlying one) is that Nintendo is struggling to find hits/ideas for better odds at success in the west (and to this end, I think this is also why we're seeing so much more freedom from NoA in dealing with Smash and other communities now than we ever did early on with the WiiU and, effectively, never with the Wii. Someone, somewhere high up realized that Treehouse + fans = good.). They got one out of Tomodachi Collection but they've tried STEAM, even if it was from IntSys. And their modus operandi, otherwise, has been playing it incredibly safe with attempting to cater to the west... heck they've in general just been incredibly safe with all of their offerings whether that be for Japan or the West. Splatoon broke that mold fast and hard for Japan (and the west to a lesser degree)... which is what I meant as coming as a wake up call: They can't just keep trying to use old IP that were successful in region X and assume it will remain successful.

To which end, I'd think they may go ahead and allow Retro some more IP freedoms. Nintendo really should have realized by now that they can't just keep focusing (advertising and development wise) on the tried and trues anymore, and after the successes with revolutionizing Metroid with Prime, I don't see why they wouldn't allow Retro another go at a new or highly updated idea.

The logic behind a lot of early WiiU releases and release from early pipeline work have been "This did well before. It will do well again." and that has heavily bit them in the ass with the WiiU and to some extent the 3DS (but they've afforded much more experimentation there than otherwise).

They are just way too small to do that. Monolith, Retro, NDCube, NLG, MG, are pretty much straight forward game development studios for Nintendo. Nintendo's internal R&D is larger than all those developers combined, and have a larger purpose in making all sorts of prototypes that never reach the market, or end up as a future idea for something else. That's what GARAGE really was, an incentive to turn some of those traditional Nintendo prototype projects, into actual products. Splatoon was great but what the heck happened to the other 3 projects? Nintendo half bailed on Star Fox, since they were unwilling to give it full development resources internally. And the other two lackluster projects are probably never going to see release.

Is Retro still that small after its recent hiring spree? And I don't mean big project, I mean what would effectively be like BOXBOY but a little bigger in scope and more like a western indie title.

One out of three beta products coming to market in a good way in an incredible turn-around for what is, effectively, untested and unexplored prototype design. Plenty of ideas that hit even that stage of experimentation will ultimately fail to meet expectations with more fleshing out. Splatoon bucked that trend, hard... which also has a lot to say about the people and mind behind it.

 

[Father_Brain]

No one said that. Give them a good incentive and maybe they will do so.
What about the COD 360 crowd that went to PS4?

I remember all those "game x runs 1080p/30fps on PS4 and 900p/30fps on Xbox One" threads on GAF and I have witnessed many times how average joe's stick to this argument.

If Nintendo is able to generate news like "game x runs 1080p/30fps on PS4, 900p/30fps on Xbox One and 1080p/60fps on NX" people will have something to brag about.

Sony wasn't starting from scratch with the Western core market like Nintendo would be. If performance was really the only "good incentive" they had over XB1, I guarantee you PS4 would have failed.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Errbody talking Call of Duty n stuff. Nintendo is never going to win the mass market that eats up these games until they produce a system that is capable of competing with both Microsoft and Sony's third party portfolio. Until each and every major third party game is on Nintendo hardware with polarity then that specific battle is lost.

This is Nintendo's Achilles heel and has been for a long time. Sales of their hardware rest squarely on market appreciation for Nintendo branded games and not much else. It is why their hardware, particularly the Wii U, is perceived as low value to a lot of gamers who might be huge fans of one or two specific Nintendo franchises but nothing else. Sony and Microsoft have the massive advantage of providing hardware with a hugely diverse and supported software portfolio. You can be a fan of only one or two Sony/Microsoft published games and still sit comfortably with a mountain of other equally quality software. Nintendo hardware, again the Wii U, flounders when you have people who are huge Mario Kart/Smash fans but not much else. The value of the system decreases significantly.

And I'm honestly sceptical Nintendo gives a fuck about trying to make up lost ground in the hardware race over trying, again, a different approach.

Totally agreed with this post. Even if Nintendo got all the major third party titles, those games would do absolutely jack all outside of a few token sales because the Nintendo audience mainly buys Nintendo games or third party ones that are like Nintendo games. It's just not going to happen anytime soon, or over one generation. And you know what? It's a good thing. We don't need three exactly same consoles on the market. That said, Nintendo has a lot of shit it needs to fix up like the droughts and the shitty OS and a proper, user-led account system that is inline with stuff like iTunes. None of this police report / calling up Nintendo BS. Nintendo also needs to take more risks like Splatoon. Throw some shit at the wall and see what sticks.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I disagree completely. Nintendo's key strength has always been how they integrted the game intimately with the hardware, which was why they never went, or at least tried to avoid, any sense of "standardizing" every generation. This is the reason they are able to push software that differenciates itself from most of the market. I'd argue most of these unique features are not always capitalized to the fullest, but when they are they feel incredibly fresh.

Having them design hardware is a key factor in keeping the console market alive. What will differenciate consoles from PCs in the long run if there isn't an eccentric thing that it can do? I mean, even a mid range PC nowdays can offer the same form of functionality and easy as the PS4 or XBO, in part thanks to Steam. Heck, you can even use the same controllers from those said consoles on your PC.

I've just never really bought into this. Yes, they innovate in controls sometimes. But the other companies do too and copy them very quickly. Besides, with the Wii U there's almost no innovation. 95% of games play exactly the same as they would on the other consoles as few use the Gamepad for control or gameplay functions. Same with the DS and 3DS. And most gamers prefer that as they just want normal games with traditional controls.

In any case, they could always bundle games with peripherals if they wanted. Or instead of going third party they could partner up with Sony, MS, Apple, Samsung or whoever to handle the hardware and give Nintendo input on controller innovations.

To your other point, I do think consoles are slowly on the way out. Stuff will move more and more to be all digital and/or streaming and being able to be played on a variety of different hardware set ups. Gaming is kind of silly being so fragment and not just having a unified standard like movies and music. Just get to a damn standard, let anyone make hardware, and have the games scale accordingly on the machines that meet the minimum specs.

People whine about how that will reduce competition and mean less great games, but that's just absurd. The competition is between GAMES, not hardware. If everything was on a uniform standard we'd get more great games and publishers and developers would have even stiffer competition in getting their games to stand out and sell well.

 

[v1oz]

Here's a quick thought...whatever hardware Nintendo uses to drive a 1080p 60fps game on a console, if they ported the exact same game to 854x480 60fps (the Wii U Gamepad specs), then it would take roughly 1/5th as much horsepower just measuring pixels. If they dropped the frame rate to 30 it could be roughly 1/10th as powerful. There's more to it than that obviously but as a ballpark figure it's pretty damn possible that they could put out a handheld with 1/5th - 1/10th the raw power of a new console at a reasonable price.

Thats not counting cpu usage for ai and physics

 

[Ansatz]

For the console, this means you get the same audience of the Wii U. If Nintendo intends to have separate console and handheld software SKUs, Pokemon is the most likely franchise to stay handheld-only.

It shouldn't be viewed like that. Instead, you should see it as a choice you have as a consumer. What matters is the total install base, the combined sales of both the handheld and console form factors with the possibility of fans like myself double dipping for both types of hardware.

The point is Nintendo doesn't have to spread themselves thing between console and handheld development; their entire output is available on your preferred way of playing.

Imagine playing A Link Between Worlds and Splatoon, on the same device. To do this now you are forced to purchase both a Wii U and 3DS.

 

[Fourth Storm]

But to pull this off, Nintendo will have to offer some sort of great selling point other aside from their own games. I don't believe that anything of the sort has been even hinted at.

Of course they need to have everything else in order. I was just addressing the hardware aspect. I think they need to get close to PS4 (some things better maybe some things worse, and definitely use the newer technologies as boast points at least) with a smaller attractive piece of hardware, like Wii and DS Lite were for their times. Besides that, they need a strong lineup of internal franchises, with a new IP in there optimally as well. They need a hook, whether software or hardware gimmick, that drives people to that console because its new and surprising. They need at least select third party titles that first season and hopefully an onslaught of indie and mobile ports. There are, in fact, rumors and hints from interviews that they are looking for ways to make ports from Android/iOS as effortless as possible.

 

[James Scott]

If Nintendo takes their handheld and console game output and slams them onto one framework or something along those lines that'd be a pretty impressive offering.

Having every one of Nintendo's studios in one place would be nuts, especially since I like 3DS games, but have started to dislike handheld consoles lately

If the console could play everything i could probably live with just that. Outside of some slight convenience (mostly me wanting to sit more comfortably and that not allowing me to look at the TV without hurting my neck) is have a hard time justifying buying the handheld. But if each system sold is just a system to play one library I think Nintendo will be fine if we stick with one platform. I wonder if Nintendo will group NX sales under one number. Would be good PR for them.
The selling point for each could be price vs power and game availability. The libraries would be similar even if the prices and performance weren't.
Biggest benefit for Nintendo/the console would be that even if the console bombs they can likely secure a lot of support for it if the handheld does really well.

 

[ironcreed]

Sony wasn't starting from scratch with the Western core market like Nintendo would be. If performance was really the only "good incentive" they had over XB1, I guarantee you PS4 would have failed.

If the NX could show some kind of an advantage in one area or another, gamers would buy it. But if they play it safe inside their little box with another under powered system that has nothing but their first party games to fall back on and some gimmick, then it will be Wii U all over again and the only people who will care is the same crowd that bought the Wii U. They need to attract people with a bold move, not do the same shit, while hoping for a different result.

 

[ZOONAMI]

But it's harder for those with real life friends they play online with. It's definitely a big factor for me as most of my closest friends live hundreds or thousands of miles away as we've all moved all over the place for jobs. Gaming online is the biggest ways we keep in touch and chat regularly.

It doesn't mean people can't switch. It just generally will require the dominant online platform doing something to screw up and cause a lot of their base to jump ship. Like MS did with their initial plans for the Xbox 1, and how many people switched to PS4. My whole gaming friend group did--at least the real life friends.

The PS4 is doing great, so there's nothing really Nintendo can do to get us to jump over to NX. Maybe if Sony botches something with the PS5, and Nintendo nails the NX and whatever it's successor is then a switch could happen.

I plan on buying an NX for sure, unless there's something I end up fundamentally disliking about it, as I've got to have my Nintendo games. But my online gaming with real friends will stay on PS4.

Yeah I don't really game with IRL friends. I don't really think most people have allegiance to an online system just because of their "friends." People will buy a system because they find its features and games appealing, as evidenced by the success of ps4. No one would ever buy a new system near release because their friends don't have it yet, and that clearly wasn't the case with either the ps4 or xbone.

 

[Father_Brain]

If the NX could show some kind of an advantage in one area or another, gamers would buy it.

Unless they're willing to moneyhat exclusive content for multiplats left and right, and actually fund first-party franchises targeted at the Western core market, *and* offer online feature parity - all of which are incredibly expensive and are far outside NCL's core competencies as a business - no, no they wouldn't. Only a tiny niche actually cares that much about resolutions and framerates.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Yeah I don't really game with IRL friends. I don't really think most people have allegiance to an online system just because of their "friends." People will buy a system because they find its features and games appealing, as evidenced by the success of ps4. No one would ever buy a new system near release because their friends don't have it yet, and that clearly wasn't the case with either the ps4 or xbone.

In my case, my handful of IRL friends that I play with and I had a lot of conversations while gaming about whether to go PS4 or Xbox 1. Only one of us had any desire to own both, so we went back and forth until we got on the same page about which to go with.

 

[Vena]

Offer online feature parity - all of which are incredibly expensive and are far outside NCL's core competencies as a business...

Its like they never hired a mobile company, who's entire business is this, to rebuild their backend and account systems or something.

I agree with the rest, though, except the moneyhatting content in a non-exclusive game. Fuck that shit and its anti-consumer bullshit.

 

[sfried]

Gaming is kind of silly being so fragment and not just having a unified standard like movies and music. Just get to a damn standard, let anyone make hardware, and have the games scale accordingly on the machines that meet the minimum specs...

People whine about how that will reduce competition and mean less great games, but that's just absurd. The competition is between GAMES, not hardware.

I think too many people fall into this same pitfall of thinking. They only think about better hardware, with all of the functionality found in todays systems, but seldom think of having unique hardware attributes, or games designing its inputs around its physicality and features (just take a look at the DS and 3DS). I think that entirely changes the dynamics of particular genres. In fact, alternative control methods like gyro aiming are slowly superceding the twinstick meathod as a better alternative to traditional mouse & keyboard.

Even Valve designing the Steam controller with those trackpads was met with criticism, but I think in the end was good for the market, because it forces developers to think outside the usual DualShock-like setup established by the medium. I'd go on to say even the DualShock is not the holy grail of control setups most people make it up to be. So I disagree with the industry needing to impose a standard with regards to game setups.

tl;dr - Standardization isn't as fun, and fun is what games should be.

 

[KingBroly]

Nintendo's output on Wii U has had extremely poor diversity. When you have to rely on a 6-month old port of a terrible game from Team Ninja as your Mature rated published game at launch, you fucked up. HARD.

No racing game until Mario Kart 8. No Sports game until Mario Tennis Ultra Smash. The first Zelda game was a Remake. No Metroid. A Spin-off Kirby. No F-Zero. Pikmin 3 was a Wii port. No real Animal Crossing. No Fire Emblem. One new major IP in a genre they still clearly need to put effort into, because they didn't see much long-term success in it before launch (I guess NOA/NOE did, but too bad they didn't try to cater to that audience until post-launch when that audience already left).

See the problem? Maybe you don't, but all of those IP's except F-Zero are on 3DS. Even Smash. Nintendo basically mitigated any reason for any Nintendo fan to get a Wii U because they focused so much on trying to prop up 3DS. Smash may be better on Wii U, but that doesn't matter to most people. There's simply not enough reasons to get a Wii U, despite a lot of the Nintendo games being pretty good. You have Splatoon and Mario Maker, but when they move those to portables, which might be sooner than expected, their Console loses out again.

With Wii U, Nintendo took their eyes off the ball, and failed to look at how the market was shaping out while they made big bucks on Wii.

 

[ironcreed]

Unless they're willing to moneyhat exclusive content for multiplats left and right, and actually fund first-party franchises targeted at the Western core market, *and* offer online feature parity - all of which are incredibly expensive and are far outside NCL's core competencies as a business - no, no they wouldn't. Only a tiny niche actually cares that much about resolutions and framerates.

I disagree. While it might not do PS4 numbers, if they released an equally powerful system that was a bit cheaper and had free online, it would do fairly well and nothing will convince me otherwise. It sure as hell would do better than the Wii U.

Again, if they cannot be competitive within the actual console market, then they might as well not even bother. As the old Wii crowd is not coming back and trying to play it safe within their own shrinking base would be pointless as well.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Unless they're willing to moneyhat exclusive content for multiplats left and right

I've been saying for years they should have done this (or at least wholly cover the cost for porting) for games launching in the first three years of the Wii U's life.

It would have set an impossibly dangerous precedent for third party relations, but it's a more comfortable noose than the one they used to kill the Wii U.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I disagree. While it might not do PS4 numbers, if they released an equally powerful system that was a bit cheaper and had free online, it would do fairly well and nothing will convince me otherwise.

The Wii U is only a bit cheaper than the PS4. A Wii U as powerful as the PS4 would probably have launched at over 500 dollars.

 

[Father_Brain]

Its like they never hired a mobile company, who's entire business is this, to rebuild their backend and account systems or something.

I agree with the rest, though, except the moneyhatting content in a non-exclusive game. Fuck that shit and its anti-consumer bullshit.

Fair enough; online is the only one of those three they have a chance of pulling off, largely because they've indicated that it might actually be a priority for them.

And moneyhatting does suck, but I don't see how they could get a foothold in that market if the only competitive edge they can offer is a resolution/framerate bump.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

I think too many people fall into this same pitfall of thinking. They only think about better hardware, with all of the functionality found in todays systems, but seldom think outside the box about having unique inputs, or games designed around its physicality and features (just take a look at the 3DS). I think that entirely changes the dynamics of particular genres. In fact, alternative control methods like gyro aiming are slowly superceding the twinstick meathod as a better alternative to traditional mouse & keyboard.

Even Valve designing the Steam controller the way it is is good, because it forces developers to think outside the usual DualShock-like setup established by the medium. I'd go on to say even the DualShock is not the holy grail of control setups most people make it up to be. So I disagree with the industry needing to impose a standard with regards to game setups.

I guess I'm just getting old and burnt out on technology and keeping up with advances. I'm only 36, but I really have no interest motion controls, VR, etc. Gyro aiming in Splatoon is ok, but I'd still use the dual sticks if it had aim assist like most dual stick shooters, and my aim is way worse in Splatoon with gyro than games like Destiny.

But honestly, it's probably not age. I've always struggled with adapting to controls. Moving from D-pads to the N64 analog stick took me quite a while. I could never get a handle on keyboard and mouse controls in shooters (the keyboard part killed me), had a terrible time getting half decent at dual analog shooters (and even after 13 years or whatever since I first played Halo I still can't aim well or fast enough to be any good in competitive shooters), and I hated the Wii motion controls.

So I'm all for as many more generations of two sticks, face buttons and triggers that I can get. After that, I'll probably drop out and just go apeshit on emulators and roms and just be a retro gamer. I've never been a super hardcore gamer so there are TONS of games from every generation I never got around to, that could last me the rest of my lifetime easily.

 

[4Tran]

It shouldn't be viewed like that. Instead, you should see it as a choice you have as a consumer. What matters is the total install base, the combined sales of both the handheld and console form factors with the possibility of fans like myself double dipping for both types of hardware.

The point is Nintendo doesn't have to spread themselves thing between console and handheld development; their entire output is available on your preferred way of playing.

Imagine playing A Link Between Worlds and Splatoon, on the same device. To do this now you are forced to purchase both a Wii U and 3DS.

This argument assumes that the main problem with the Wii U was that Nintendo couldn't release software at a steady rate. I don't think that it's supported by the ways sales spiked when large games were released. The latter suggests that the audience for Nintendo games is fairly limited, and that there is almost no reach outside of it.

Of course they need to have everything else in order. I was just addressing the hardware aspect. I think they need to get close to PS4 (some things better maybe some things worse, and definitely use the newer technologies as boast points at least) with a smaller attractive piece of hardware, like Wii and DS Lite were for their times. Besides that, they need a strong lineup of internal franchises, with a new IP in there optimally as well. They need a hook, whether software or hardware gimmick, that drives people to that console because its new and surprising. They need at least select third party titles that first season and hopefully an onslaught of indie and mobile ports. There are, in fact, rumors and hints from interviews that they are looking for ways to make ports from Android/iOS as effortless as possible.

The problem here is that you're already positing pricing parity with the PS4, and the PS4 is going to be a vastly more appealing product under that circumstance. Basically, the NX console is being setup for failure even if it launches with a bunch of top-notch titles. The only way for it to gain traction under this circumstance would be to offer something really enticing, and software likely won't be sufficient.

I don't even think that a "new and surprising" will be enough. That was successful for the Wii, but only because Nintendo was targeting an underserved demographic. This audience isn't underserved any more, so a lot more will be needed to bring them back. What Nintendo really needs is to tap into audiences who already spend a fair bit on console games - but they've been reluctant to cater to them for a long time.

 

[ironcreed]

The Wii U is only a bit cheaper than the PS4. A Wii U as powerful as the PS4 would probably have launched at over 500 dollars.

By the end of 2016 or so, they could release something comparable for around $300. And if it launches with a few quality multiplats and exclusives like the new Zelda, I think it would turn quite a few heads within the core market that they need to be trying to win back.

 

[Vena]

Fair enough; online is the only one of those three they have a chance of pulling off, largely because they've indicated that it might actually be a priority for them.

And moneyhatting does suck, but I don't see how they could get a foothold in that market if the only competitive edge they can offer is a resolution/framerate bump.

Online, they've basically already started prioritizing but its through software reintegration rather recoding the OS, which be a colossal waste of time and resources given how much would need to be reworked. DeNA's account reworkings are software end and can easily be integrated, whenever they arrive.

As for the market edge: make some actual products with a heavy western focus. That way the market has more to look forward to than multiplatform titles. Leverage that over the competition, they have the talent they just need to use it. I realize the boons of the moneyhat, I just don't like it.

 

[Nanashrew]

The author of the article is making an assumption based on prior experience. The Wii being what it was did not need something amazing from AMD and as such it was a low cost project. The Wii U again was a rather average thing so again low cost.

If the NX is more like the gamecube then it would be safe to assume the costs would not follow the trend of the Wii or Wii U.

Thanks for the clarification!