Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
You are correct--It was from an "insider."
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WSJ: Nintendo Begins Distributing Software Kit for NX (Console + Handheld units)
- Thread starter killercow
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You are correct--It was from an "insider."
They found out he posts on GAF and sent him a proto-WiiU dev kit instead. Just to troll us.
Fourth Storm
Member
If Nintendo are launching this console next year, I am thinking they should target price parity. I already know there are some that Nintendo should, via default, offer a lower priced product. I disagree. Remember back to when Iwata said this in just February of this year:
Considering inflation, $299 is an extremely fair price for a console. And it also happens to be where MS and Sony will have boxes priced around holiday season of 2016. I say forget the people that say the competition's larger library warrants a premium over your brand new console. Launch lineup is the key and they know they need to keep the media/public perception positive this time. Wii could have sold at $299 easily, but Wii U had poor feedback nearly from day one.
If finFET stays on track by late next year, they should be able to purchase 16nm/14nm chips for not a crazy price. Those processes give you 2x density as Xbone/PS4's current 28nm, so they can make the same horsepower but smaller/cooler/quieter. They could further cut a couple SIMD engines to somewhere between the two current consoles and rely a bit more on the architectural advancements to achieve visual parity. They also probably save a bit on die area going to a Cortex A57/A72 CPU vs Jaguar.
Video Memory: 4 GB HBM2? One four high stack shouldn't be crazy given what the technology sets out to achieve and what NVidia/AMD are already planning for next year on the high end. Yes, this memory comes at a premium, but they can cut costs on system memory then.
System Memory: They need to be forward thinking and use DDR4. Right now, they could buy 8 512MB DDR4 chips and get decent performance (depending on the speed available) on a 128-bit bus. Sony/MS will never get below 8 chips in their current systems (they used 16 each at launch...doubtful that it has changed since). And Nintendo would have half the PCB complexity w/ the narrower bus. More price savings. DDR4 would also contribute toward the smaller/cooler form factor, as it runs at a lower voltage. Having the OS shared w/ mobile, it shouldn't exceed 2 GB, leaving 6 GB RAM total for games. Split, but you can't have everything.
So yeah, an SOC that's less than half the size of the competition's and RAM that is more premium perhaps today, but should end up more economical long term. It may be a dream, but I think this would be good for late 2016. Further, they could release two versions of the console (with the portable coming either a few months earlier/later). The "Gamer" edition would include an optical drive, 1 TB HDD, and even Blu-Ray playback and at equal cost to their competition, presumably $299.
Besides the "Gamer Edition," release the "Digital" edition simultaneously for $249. This would be a digital only console, even smaller and more sleek looking with a 1 TB HDD as primary storage. Gauge carefully in the early months which sells more and if it makes sense to continue either SKU. Of course, I'm neglecting the "hook/gimmick," but I am counting on them learning from their mistakes and not having that be something that's of high cost to bundle with the hardware.
That's my rant/pipedream on hardware. Of course, none of this is worth it if they don't come out guns blazing on software. They seem to be preparing internally, and I guess this "positive" feedback we've been hearing since E3 has got my slightly optimistic.
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/150217qa/03.htmlIwata said:
Considering inflation, $299 is an extremely fair price for a console. And it also happens to be where MS and Sony will have boxes priced around holiday season of 2016. I say forget the people that say the competition's larger library warrants a premium over your brand new console. Launch lineup is the key and they know they need to keep the media/public perception positive this time. Wii could have sold at $299 easily, but Wii U had poor feedback nearly from day one.
If finFET stays on track by late next year, they should be able to purchase 16nm/14nm chips for not a crazy price. Those processes give you 2x density as Xbone/PS4's current 28nm, so they can make the same horsepower but smaller/cooler/quieter. They could further cut a couple SIMD engines to somewhere between the two current consoles and rely a bit more on the architectural advancements to achieve visual parity. They also probably save a bit on die area going to a Cortex A57/A72 CPU vs Jaguar.
Video Memory: 4 GB HBM2? One four high stack shouldn't be crazy given what the technology sets out to achieve and what NVidia/AMD are already planning for next year on the high end. Yes, this memory comes at a premium, but they can cut costs on system memory then.
System Memory: They need to be forward thinking and use DDR4. Right now, they could buy 8 512MB DDR4 chips and get decent performance (depending on the speed available) on a 128-bit bus. Sony/MS will never get below 8 chips in their current systems (they used 16 each at launch...doubtful that it has changed since). And Nintendo would have half the PCB complexity w/ the narrower bus. More price savings. DDR4 would also contribute toward the smaller/cooler form factor, as it runs at a lower voltage. Having the OS shared w/ mobile, it shouldn't exceed 2 GB, leaving 6 GB RAM total for games. Split, but you can't have everything.
So yeah, an SOC that's less than half the size of the competition's and RAM that is more premium perhaps today, but should end up more economical long term. It may be a dream, but I think this would be good for late 2016. Further, they could release two versions of the console (with the portable coming either a few months earlier/later). The "Gamer" edition would include an optical drive, 1 TB HDD, and even Blu-Ray playback and at equal cost to their competition, presumably $299.
Besides the "Gamer Edition," release the "Digital" edition simultaneously for $249. This would be a digital only console, even smaller and more sleek looking with a 1 TB HDD as primary storage. Gauge carefully in the early months which sells more and if it makes sense to continue either SKU. Of course, I'm neglecting the "hook/gimmick," but I am counting on them learning from their mistakes and not having that be something that's of high cost to bundle with the hardware.
That's my rant/pipedream on hardware. Of course, none of this is worth it if they don't come out guns blazing on software. They seem to be preparing internally, and I guess this "positive" feedback we've been hearing since E3 has got my slightly optimistic.
McHuj
Member
I'm hoping they go with the A72. If Amazon can ship a FireTV with a dual core A72 for $99 this year, then I certainly hope Nintendo can as well.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't request a dev kit, just an account. It looks like it will just be there without anything happening to it. I could technically send in a formal request, but I don't currently have an office that meets their standards.
A72 isn't very mature, and Amazon is subsidizing that price heavily.
lol
Rösti;182203502 said:
Oh, I see.
I thought it was an actual dev kit, my bad.
Keep us updated anyway. You never know.
GhostTrick
Banned
A72 is mature in the sense that it already shipped to OEM and first SoCs will ship either this year or Q1 2016 in consumer phones.
Not denying it hasn't cut into the handheld audience - I just don't think it will decline much further from 3DS to NXgo or whatever it gets called.
The majority of the decline seems to have already taken place. If someone has a 3DS now I don't see anything changing between now and NXgo in the mobile space to make them forgo dedicated gaming handhelds.
But to pull this off, Nintendo will have to offer some sort of great selling point other aside from their own games. I don't believe that anything of the sort has been even hinted at.
Kissenkopf
Banned
What? Really? So should we really expect something from this? I doubt they will launch the new account system without any informations about it. My guess is, that they prepare everything now and it will launch in a few weeks.
Disorientator
Member
Rösti;182203502 said:
Wait I thought accounts on Warioworld/NDP required a registered company/office, etc.
They give people access even without these? (and what about NDAs?)
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
This is but a sample of what good synergy of 3D APIs, ARM CPUs and mobile GPUs can provide ATM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thb2841jCQ4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_I8an8jXuM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlNULbu_jeE
Right, but I'm more speaking of simple proliferation on production and, subsequently, affordable production of custom builds rather than boiler-plate phone designs on standardized production lines.
A57, conversely, is much more mature and has a lot of experimentation and build variety under its belt. I am not saying A72 is impossible given these things as companies have already been extensively working with it on multiple factor scales, I just don't know how realistic it is to expect readily available, high-scaling production at an affordable price from A72 by early 2016. A57 is a lot easier, and it already offers performance on par with or exceeding that of the Jaguars.
Dunno... if AMD finished the design... I'd say Nintendo would, if they wanted to chase such an end, pursue K12 over A72.
R
Rösti
Unconfirmed Member
They give unapproved/unreviewed accounts access to selected parts of the site.
Disorientator
Member
Rösti;182204531 said:
Ah cool didn't know, thanks.
GhostTrick
Banned
The problem with A57 is that it's worse. It's bigger than A72, consum more, is slower and also generate a lot more heat. A57 would be a poor choice IMO compared to the benefit of A72 in a handheld formfactor. Especially when Chinese OEM already plan to launch them.
Zen for wide desktop use will be ready next year, but it was in development for several years, so if N wants to use it, they most likely can.
Performance-wise, zen and jaguar are not in the same league. Jaguar is low power laptop part, while Zen will fight the newest i7.
If N wants x86, they will most likely go with Puma APU (sucessor of Jaguar).
True enough, I am looking at this from a price consideration than from an outright "what is best for performance" point of view. I completely agree that A72 would be better.
I still think Nintendo should buy the Bond license if they want to make a push towards the western FPS audience.
007 will always have that connection with Nintendo thanks to Goldeneye. the video game license is literally not being used while Bond as a whole is arguably more popular than ever, just coming off its biggest movie yet in Skyfall.
let Retro make a sick ass Bond game.
007 will always have that connection with Nintendo thanks to Goldeneye. the video game license is literally not being used while Bond as a whole is arguably more popular than ever, just coming off its biggest movie yet in Skyfall.
let Retro make a sick ass Bond game.
Well...it seems like Square is on board. But we don't know what NX is. All we have are dissections of talking points and this WSJ report.
GhostTrick
Banned
Then again, even in term of price point. There's a reason why Samsung or Qualcomm will be using A72 cores in mid ranges SoC and not A57. It doesn't mean Nintendo will use A72 of course. I actually think they might be stuck on a older design.
Trevelyan9999
Banned
Nintendo can price their machines in any way they want, taking a loss and making it up with software and now Amiibo can further help them beef up this console and price it lower than expected.
This is how I see things as well. Right now Nintendo needs to just fix their software droughts and make a desirable product. With the number of games they'll be releasing, and the number of Japanese 3rd party games they should be able to get for NX (if square is serious about dragon quest, then there's no reason for NX to not get Kingdom Hearts 3 or other games as well), that just puts them in prime position to make bigger waves with NX2.
I don't see Nintendo getting significant western AAA games on NX even if they go well out of their way to cater to them simply because I expect NX to be Nintendo's "proving grounds". I think the heavier hitters like the GTAs and the Fallouts are gonna wait it out no matter what. If Nintendo play their cards right, NX2 will be when 3rd parties start to come back
If ever, of course.
Chezzymann
Member
I honestly think if its more than $350 it won't do well. They gotta price low and take the loss, because they simply can't afford another wii U situation.
Nintendo got crucified for announcing Wii U was selling at a loss by pretty much everyone.
Well I think people were pissed about the gamepad costing so much.
If it isn't just the handheld version running on a console, it probably isn't happening. There's no reason for Game Freak to waste their resources on a full-scale RPG if it isn't a mainline handheld game, where Pokemon performs best. And if they outsource it, people will just act like it doesn't count.
SuperLeviathan
Member
If the Wii U had been successful, I doubt that would have been an issue. The combination of selling at a loss and cataclysmic sales made for good "doomsday" articles.
That's why the NX' first year is so important.
Chezzymann
Member
Yeah, it was pretty much an xbone kinect situation but mandatory.
Let's say that we have a gamer who primarily plays Call of Duty who has yet to buy a PS4/Xbone/Wii U but plans to buy a new console at Christmas 2016. Which console do you think this hypothetical gamer would gravitate towards?
They announced this before the system came out, so what it was/wasn't selling then wasn't an issue. It came across as Nintendo being incompetent on making a device like that sell at a loss
Father_Brain
Banned
The market has changed a hell of a lot since 2001 or 2007.
Agree or disagree with his conclusion; it's fairly obvious that Nintendo is facing the greatest challenges they've ever faced in this business.
That's... a nice individual opinion that has nothing at all to do with overall market trends.
Yeah, I'll remain skeptical that they're pursuing PS4 or greater specs until/unless we start hearing that more explicitly from other sources.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I think if it's over $250, it'll have trouble, unless it's like the lightning in a bottle that Wii was. And for a handheld, Nintendo will have trouble at over $200. Just look at what happened with 3DS.
Whatever system has exclusive marketing for it.
Chezzymann
Member
Yeah, honestly I think $249 for the NX and $150 for the new handheld is around the sweet spot for sales. And they could still have a big power improvement over their current consoles if they don't rely on gimmicks that suck the power out of their systems (3DS games for example had to be rendered twice for the effect to work if I recall correctly.)
Truth is, most people buy Nintendo consoles as companion consoles. And they gotta start pricing them like that.
Father_Brain
Banned
3DS' YoY trends don't offer much support for this conclusion.
This is what I was referring to:
Iwata said:
http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html
Both.
Miyamoto said:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/06/21/the-future-of-nintendo-game-development
Also, this: http://kotaku.com/first-look-at-nintendos-new-development-studio-1540277475
Well the fact that all of this is happening and we haven't seen jack shit for the WiiU is exactly why I'm hopeful for the launch of the NX.
Again, this is just my take on things.
Also, in regards to Metroid:
http://kotaku.com/nintendo-is-planning-a-future-for-both-2d-and-3d-metroi-1590142491
Even if the NX console is suitably powerful and gets all multiplatform titles, I don't see that doing them much good. If you're interested in playing those 3rd party games, you're likely already going to own a PS4 or X1 or powerful PC by the time the NX console is released. Sure, it'd be unwise to not be a viable home to multiplats, but if they're going to release a console in the midst of a generation, their success will ultimately rely upon the appeal of the differentiating "hook."
I'm curious where console design will go once hardware can reliably output games at 1080p 60fps. If that is Nintendo's goal with the NX console, maybe it is going to have a reasonable BOM.
I am aware that 4K TV's and/or VR headsets are coming, but at least 4K seems like something that will not be a serious option for at least two gaming generations from now, rather than on NX, PS5, X2.
I am aware that 4K TV's and/or VR headsets are coming, but at least 4K seems like something that will not be a serious option for at least two gaming generations from now, rather than on NX, PS5, X2.
Chezzymann
Member
I don't think most core gamers care about a hook. That's the casual audience, and they're gone. All a hook would do in my opinion is increase the price and possibly decrease the graphical performance depending on what it is. To me either they gotta embrace being a companion console or gamble and try to get back to being a main console (something I feel hasn't been the case since the SNES)
The PS4 has had exclusive marketing since February of 2013 and the Xbone has had exclusive marketing since May of 2013, so it's obviously going to be one of these two then?
The Wii U's declines have mostly stabilized, but we may not have seen that happen with the 3DS yet. Unless the NX handheld is absolutely amazing, it'll be a miracle if it can perform anywhere near the 3DS.
Dudebro gamers are neither core nor casual gamers. They can probably be hooked if you care to do so, but it's not a very easy audience for Nintendo to target.
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