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[Deleted member 752119]

I don't think the phrase "alternative console" really fits into how I see reality. It feels like a hold-over from the Console Wars. People own and use multiple systems, don't they?

A lot don't. But maybe they would if there was a compelling reason to buy another one.

The Wii did that as the motion control stuff was so different from anything on Sony/MS at the time. So it sold a lot to non-gamers, but also more casual core gamers that usually only had one but grabbed one to play Wii Sports with their family, girlfriends and non-gaming friends.

So there is always some potential for some alternative console that can reach those folks who normally don't see the point of buying multiple consoles.

I mean, unless you're a hard core gamers who HAS to play all the great games, there's really no point to most in owning at PS4 and an Xbox 1. There's plenty of games in every popular genre in both, and the bulk of major games that appeal to the mainstream are multiplatform these days as well.

Nintendo does have the advantage of their games being very different from 95+% of the stuff on those platforms, which can make it a more attractive second console for a lot of core gamers. They just have to figure out how to price it right (people aren't going to be hugely willing to pay the same or more for a secondary console they'll play less than their main platform) and market it well.

\

It would be more like:

Do you want Sony first party and all major third party games or do you want Nintendo first party and maybe some third party games if the console is successful.

That's a major difference

Or for me and a lot of other core gamers, it comes down to:

I want Sony (or MS) as my mainplatform as their first party games and third party games are what I like most. Will Nintendo put out enough games for the NX that interest me to make it worth owning it as a second platform? For me the answer will likely be yes as I'm happy with the Wii U library, and it should be even stronger assuming the console library includes all the portable games as playables.

 

[sörine]

There's also an issue of online gaming.

Some people buy the consoles that their friends own so they can play them online.

Nintendo's the most open to cross-platform online among the console makers which could benefit them. Of course if Microsoft continues locking down and Sony starts regressing now that they're in a position of power that won't matter as much.

 

[QaaQer]

Depends. If the price, power, features and third party support are comparable, it'll come down to one very simple calculation- do you want Nintendo first party or Sony first party?

In 1999 maybe.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Just do right by third parties, Nintendo. Do it.

how are they going to 'do right' ?

buy exclusives?

pay for marketing?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Depends. If the price, power, features and third party support are comparable, it'll come down to one very simple calculation- do you want Nintendo first party or Sony first party?

This is a scenario that will literally never happen unless Sony exits the game business.

 

[Plinko]

There's always plan B, which is "Our games don't sell to Nintendo fans".

Then make them say it.

 

[sörine]

In 1999 maybe.

Nintendo's first party still pretty much steamrolls everyone else in sales and prestiege, despite Halo or Naughty Dog. It's never going to come down to purely 1st party though so it's an academic exercise anyway.

 

[4Tran]

Depends. If the price, power, features and third party support are comparable, it'll come down to one very simple calculation- do you want Nintendo first party or Sony first party?

Hardcore Nintendo fans were always going to buy Nintendo consoles - that's one market that they have been able to take for granted. For everyone else, it's a lot more complicated than that. By the end of 2016, the PS4 would have built up 3 years worth of high profile games and good press; it's going to be extremely difficult for Nintendo to bring something as appealing to the table unless they have a large feature or price advantage. Launching at the same price point as the market leader is going to be a good way of starting out on the wrong foot.

Oh, and the NX console's features and third party support are going to be found very lacking compared to what the PS4 would have.

 

[L Thammy]

how are they going to 'do right' ?

buy exclusives?

pay for marketing?

Make it as easy as possible to port from PS4 to NX. Offer competitive pricing with regards to royalties, etc. Offer to advertise larger company's games in Nintendo Direct and other Nintendo press. Start a conversation with major players, get an idea of what they want, and do it.

It's not going to happen, but that's what they can do.

 

[Father_Brain]

Depends. If the price, power, features and third party support are comparable, it'll come down to one very simple calculation- do you want Nintendo first party or Sony first party?

Given Sony's online strengths and the lack of demographic overlap between Nintendo IP and most core third-party IP, I don't think that comparison would favor the party you're implying it would.

Of course, the odds that NX has both competitive specs and multiplatform release parity are virtually nil, so the question will almost certainly remain academic,

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Ports will get people excited.

There's always plan B, which is "Our games don't sell to Nintendo fans".

"I already have a PS4"

"All my friends have Xbox Live"

 

[Principate]

What other console tried to position itself as an alternative? Wii was probably the first real one. Following in the foosteps of Sony and MS would be a huge mistake that Nintendo isn't likely to make anyway. That would be extremely stupid. 3rd parties would still not make any games for the system. They don't have any reason to. 3rd parties will wake up only when it's already a success and they see the NPS numbers . But since it's assumed, and rightfully, that anyone who wants to play Western IPs, buys or will buy a PS4, they will adopt a wait & see approach.
The NX needs to be a must have for kids and families or having a new wow factor if they want to do better than Gamecube or Wii U sales, not ape Sony or MS. Why buy a Nintendo when you can get a cool PS4?

Think about what proposing here, who do you think will buy an alternative console? How many people have multiple consoles from the same generation connected up to their TV, even on gaf which is the extreme hard-core board that's actually kind of rare let alone the mainstream public who are the ones that'll actually determine if a console succeeds or not. Even for such a concept to be remotely palatable the alternative console would have to be cheap as hell and as most people aren't willing to put down another $300- to play different games on the same tv. If it's very cheap it'll be weak and the core that's interest in having an alternative console won't want to buy it, as they would have just bought the wii u as it's the exact same concept. People bought a wii because they wanted a wii they didn't give two craps about the x360 and PS3 because for the first half it's life it was steamrolling them in sales. It wasn't an alternative to the X360 and PS3 it was something else entirely that was fair more successful in terms of profitability

You cannot create a commercially successful product understand that model, it just doesn't work it will either have to go for an entirely different market or fight toe to toe. If the NX does turn out to be powerful console then Nintendo will indeed be going for the fighting toe to toe.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

Make it as easy as possible to port from PS4 to NX. Offer competitive pricing with regards to royalties, etc. Offer to advertise larger company's games in Nintendo Direct and other Nintendo press. Start a conversation with major players, get an idea of what they want, and do it.

It's not going to happen, but that's what they can do.

If they were smart, they'd just scrap royalties all together. They should realize that they make money by selling hardware and their first party games. And if they have robust third party support, that will help sell more consoles (and make them more money) and subsequently sell more of their first party games to the larger base (and make them more money).

Their greed with high royalites on Carts, GCN discs etc. was a big part of what alienated them from third party publishers in the first place.

That will never happen, but at the least they should charge lower royalties than the competition to give them incentive to port things over.

Even for such a concept to be remotely palatable the alternative console would have to be cheap as hell and as most people aren't willing to put down another $300- to play different games on the same tv. If it's very cheap it'll be weak and the core that's interest in having an alternative console won't want to buy it, as they would have just bought the wii u as it's the exact same concept.

I don't think that's true. The Wii U's $350 launch price was a huge part of it's problem, while the Wii launching at $250 was a huge part of it's success. Who knows how the Wii U would have sold if it was cheaper, had a different name and marketed well?

 

[Fourth Storm]

I think it makes Alot of sense. Nintendo have been doing this for gba to ds to 3ds as well with the consoles. Would that put them in a good logical position to have wiiu cpu + high end arm in the console? Basically maintain whole bunch of games from previous generations + nx handheld + new generation.
What are your thoughts?

In short, no. The Wii U CPU would be redundant hardware and raise the cost of the console. I think they're planning to use their next membership program to offer some type of incentive rather than Wii U BC. Other than the remasters and possible Virtual Console releases. I want to believe that they will invest in some good emulation tech going forward, as the CPU switch will be kind of an eye-opener.

 

[MatrixMan.EXE]

Depends. If the price, power, features and third party support are comparable, it'll come down to one very simple calculation- do you want Nintendo first party or Sony first party?

Unfortunately, the likelihood that that the features and more so the third party support are at all comparable is pretty low. PS4's 3rd party support is better than even Xbox One's.

I feel as though Nintendo's 1st party titles are cater to a relatively specific demographic anyway. If in an ideal world, it has competed on all of those fronts with PS4 or Xbox One, the only thing it would do is perhaps convince the most die hard Nintendo fans that they don't need another console.

Nintendo's the most open to cross-platform online among the console makers which could benefit them.

Eh?

That's certainly a factor, but I've noticed that the 'buy your friend's console' thing has lessened a lot this generation, mostly it seems due to last gen refusing to die, and cross-generation play not being a thing. Most of the hardcore COD guys I know are still on PS3/360.

First party games are still one of the most prominent reasons as to which brand consumers opt for.

I don't think it will be. First party doesn't matter as much as it used to. The NX won't even be in most consumers' radars. Coming to the market 3 years after PS4 and Xbox One, likely with a more primitive feature set. Mario and Zelda aren't going to convince consumers to jump ship. Nintendo and their IP don't have that kind of mind share anymore.

 

[Neff]

There's also an issue of online gaming.

Some people buy the consoles that their friends own so they can play them online. PlayStation and Xbox have large online communities.

That's certainly a factor, but I've noticed that the 'buy your friend's console' thing has lessened a lot this generation, mostly it seems due to last gen refusing to die, and cross-generation play not being a thing. Most of the hardcore COD guys I know are still on PS3/360.

First party games are still one of the most prominent reasons as to which brand consumers opt for.

Given Sony's online strengths and the lack of demographic overlap between Nintendo IP and most core third-party IP, I don't think that comparison would favor the party you're implying it would.

Of course, the odds that NX has both competitive specs and multiplatform release parity are virtually nil, so the question will almost certainly remain academic,

I'm speaking purely hypothetically, and even if NX can offer a similar experience to PS4/XBone, it's still going to struggle at launch, unless Nintendo has some lightning-in-a-bottle secret up its sleeve we don't know about.

That said, it's certainly no stretch to consider that a certain type of customer would, given an otherwise same choice, go for Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc over Bloodborne, Uncharted and so on.

 

[QaaQer]

Nintendo's first party still pretty much steamrolls everyone else in sales and prestiege, despite Halo or Naughty Dog. It's never going to come down to purely 1st party though so it's an academic exercise anyway.

Some play online with friends, it's kind of a thing now.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Make it as easy as possible to port from PS4 to NX. Offer competitive pricing with regards to royalties, etc. Offer to advertise larger company's games in Nintendo Direct and other Nintendo press. Start a conversation with major players, get an idea of what they want, and do it.

It's not going to happen, but that's what they can do.

It is worth a shot, I really don't see a way that the major 3rd Parties will actually 'Like' Nintendo hardware again unless they are very aggressive with those ideas you posted

Nintendo has very few other profit streams I am not sure they can afford to please 3rd Parties on the level of cash they would need to get the same treatment

wait and see what kind of hardware this is first I guess

 

[4Tran]

First party games are still one of the most prominent reasons as to which brand consumers opt for.

The PS4 isn't the current market leader because it has amazing releases from Sony so where do you get this idea from? First market releases are a factor, but they're only a minor consideration compared to the other ones.

 

[Kouriozan]

Then make them say it.

Ubisoft did.
They literally said "if our games still can't sell on Wii U, we are done supporting this console", and see what they did now.

EDIT :

Emily Rogers: Wii U owners need to buy Ubisoft games

I'm dead serious about the third thing too. Based on what I'm hearing, if you want Ubisoft to support Wii U, you better support their stuff.

 

[QaaQer]

That's certainly a factor, but I've noticed that the 'buy your friend's console' thing has lessened a lot this generation, mostly it seems due to last gen refusing to die, and cross-generation play not being a thing. Most of the hardcore COD guys I know are still on PS3/360.

First party games are still one of the most prominent reasons as to which brand consumers opt for.

Depends on the demo. Middle aged guy playing after kid is asleep, sure. Jr/Sr high? Nope.

 

[sörine]

Eh?

Nintendo's open across the board. Sony's incredibly lenient too but they're still case by case and sometimes it doesn't work out (ex: Pure Chess).

The only real problem is Microsoft and it's probably doing them more harm than good at this point.

 

[Vena]

Some play online with friends, it's kind of a thing now.

Not sure what relevance this has.

 

[sörine]

Some play online with friends, it's kind of a thing now.

You should get a Wii U. Splatoon's great.

 

[L Thammy]

Honestly, Nintendo's miles behind their competitors at this point. Even though third party ports won't provide anything unique over the competitors, Nintendo's playing catch-up, and so it still makes the console look a lot more appealing.

Another big thing that will help improve their position from the Wii U is making the console itself more appealing. The Wii U was garbage. At launch, it was incredibly slow and it crashed all the time. It had no hard drive or a tiny one. The unique controller wasn't interesting for most people. Nobody really wants to buy the Wii U itself; it's just an additional cost that you have to go through if you want to play its library.

I think Nintendo can survive being in third place, so long as third place is not in the toilet.

 

[Plinko]

Ubisoft did.
They literally said "if our games still can't sell on Wii U, we are done supporting this console", and see what they did now.

EDIT :

Emily Rogers: Wii U owners need to buy Ubisoft games

I know--I remember. That's the way the industry should be.

 

[QaaQer]

Not sure what relevance this has.

He left it out of his list of factors. It is very important for those who see videogames as a social thing to have the right console. It is why those 'which console should I buy my son/daughter/niece/ etc' threads only ever have one answer: the one their friends have, unless the kid is a loner I guess. 1st party single player is unimportant for many and maybe even most.

 

[GamerJM]

You should get a Wii U. Splatoon's great.

I think he said that in the context of talking about the broader market, not himself personally. Splatoon's great but it's not gonna get the Call of Duty or CS GO crowds.

 

[QaaQer]

You should get a Wii U. Splatoon's great.

I'm a loner. Too much pressure in multiplayer games for me.

 

[10k]

I remember Wii U's software kits arriving only 11 months or so before launch. A dev said they ported a Wii U launch title in less than a year. Can't remember who said it. Getting them now (and some even at E3) means launch titles might be more polished and in greater number for holiday 2016.

 

[HUELEN10]

Again, to those saying NX will be 9th gen, what proof is there? Again 2600/5200, a system and its successor, both in the same gen.

 

[sörine]

Kids don't have consoles at all anymore. They and all their friends have tablets and phones.

 

[Father_Brain]

That's certainly a factor, but I've noticed that the 'buy your friend's console' thing has lessened a lot this generation, mostly it seems due to last gen refusing to die, and cross-generation play not being a thing. Most of the hardcore COD guys I know are still on PS3/360.

First party games are still one of the most prominent reasons as to which brand consumers opt for.



I'm speaking purely hypothetically, and even if NX can offer a similar experience to PS4/XBone, it's still going to struggle at launch, unless Nintendo has some lightning-in-a-bottle secret up its sleeve we don't know about.

That said, it's certainly no stretch to consider that a certain type of customer would, given an otherwise same choice, go for Mario, Zelda, Metroid etc over Bloodborne, Uncharted and so on.

Of course such customers exist, but I don't think there are nearly enough who care enough about having AAA multiplats and Mario on a single console to significantly change the trajectory of Nintendo's console business.

 

[Bony Manifesto]

I know--I remember. That's the way the industry should be.

I don't know... Publishers lining up to publicly state they have no faith in Nintendo isn't good for anybody, least of all Nintendo.

 

[Vena]

Unfortunately, the likelihood that that the features and more so the third party support are at all comparable is pretty low. PS4's 3rd party support is better than even Xbox One's.

PS4/X1 do not have some overtly special features that are untenable. They are just streamlined PC experiences.

The NX won't even be in most consumers' radars. Coming to the market 3 years after PS4 and Xbox One, likely with a more primitive feature set.

Backend is being done by a mobile company. Unless you mean parties and voice chat capabilities within the OS itself, but "feature set" is uninformative as the WiiU and 3DS (in their RAM crippled state) still have certain OS functionality that are exclusive to them. The mere physical build of the WiiU (and the 3DS) preclude a lot of modern day functionality by simply not having the physical memory for it while also running games. No amount of optimization or wizardry is going to download more RAM to the 3DS or the WiiU to open up certain feature sets.

Also, the 3DS exists and has a market. We need to stop having this discussion as if only the WiiU exists irregardless of what you may or may not think is the ultimate fate of handhelds. It is very much still a thing people use and buy software for and is very much still in people's radars.

He left it out of his list of factors. It is very important for those who see videogames as a social thing to have the right console. It is why those 'which console should I buy my son/daughter/niece/ etc' threads only ever have one answer: the one their friends have, unless the kid is a loner I guess. 1st party single player is unimportant for many and maybe even most.

Ahh I understand now. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Kouriozan]

To illustrate my point further with Ubisoft and Wii U support :

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

I remember Wii U's software kits arriving only 11 months or so before launch. A dev said they ported a Wii U launch title in less than a year. Can't remember who said it. Getting them now (and some even at E3) means launch titles might be more polished and in greater number for holiday 2016.

Iirc Wii U Dev kits first went out in April 2011, so actually quite a bit ahead of the NX.

 

[QaaQer]

Kids don't have consoles at all anymore. They and all their friends have tablets and phones.

Depends on what a kid is. Under ten, agreed. 10-18, consoles are still a big thing.

 

[Principate]

If they were smart, they'd just scrap royalties all together. They should realize that they make money by selling hardware and their first party games. And if they have robust third party support, that will help sell more consoles (and make them more money) and subsequently sell more of their first party games to the larger base (and make them more money).

Their greed with high royalites on Carts, GCN discs etc. was a big part of what alienated them from third party publishers in the first place.

That will never happen, but at the least they should charge lower royalties than the competition to give them incentive to port things over.



I don't think that's true. The Wii U's $350 launch price was a huge part of it's problem, while the Wii launching at $250 was a huge part of it's success. Who knows how the Wii U would have sold if it was cheaper, had a different name and marketed well?

The wii u completely tanked, if you think Nintendo could have simple saved it's fortunes by simply lowering the price, your either very either or consider Nintendo to be complete and utter idiots (beyond what they were already were) for doing this simply surefire key to success I'm thinking both.

 

[MR ARCADE FOREVER]

If the NX launch list includes three big games and possibly some Wii U ports will be more appealing to the customer.

-New Zelda
-Mario Galaxy 3
-Metroid NX
-Splatoon 2

some third parties annoucements:
-Resident Evil 7 Nintendo exclusive
-Platinum's new exclusive
-At least one Rockstar game!

 

[Vena]

To illustrate my point further with Ubisoft and Wii U support

Ya, software adoption for their titles was absolutely atrocious. Even ZombiU did not do well despite being bundled.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

The wii u completely tanked, if you think Nintendo could have simple saved it's fortunes by simply lowering the price, your either very either or consider Nintendo to be complete and utter idiots (beyond what they were already were) for doing this simply surefire key to success I'm thinking both.

I didn't say they could save it.

I said it perhaps could have done better from launch if it had been priced cheaper (perhaps drop the gamepad and just included a Wii Remote and Pro controller), named better, and marketed better. Of course it also needed a much stronger launch lineup and first year line up.

In other words, if they had done more things right (in hindsight), maybe it wouldn't have tanked from day 1.

The NX will likely be a good experiment at this--assuming they learned their lessen and put this out at a competitive price (for a what is a secondary console for most core gamers who are the early adopter market), market it well and have a great launch and first year line up.

 

[Disorientator]

Any chance NX has the reverse configuration from that of the Wii U?

What I mean is:
- A config similar to the Wii U - base system with handheld-like controller but...
- ...all the processing is done on the handheld/controller instead of the base unit.
- Controller can be used as a -very powerful- handheld/work independently of base-unit. (as all processing takes place on it anyways)
- Base unit basically only a small set-top box able to "receive" gameplay stream from controller/handheld (how the WiiU gamepad works now) and output it to TV.
- In addition to the wireless module (to receive gameplay stream from handheld) the base unit only has an HDMI port (for TV output) and a couple of USB ports.
- Units can be sold separately - buy the handheld/controller and if you need output to TV buy the base station later.

Questions for more educated folks on the subject:
- Can console-grade processing (CPU/GPU) and memory, that can output to 720p/1080p, be scaled down to handheld-level form-factors (let's say Wii U gamepad size), and still doesn't cost a fortune to produce/buy?
- Could the streaming technology used on the Wii U (or maybe a new version of it), output visuals to a TV (720p/1080p) without compressing artifacts? (with the assistance of further processing/decoding going on the base-unit maybe)
- What about sound? Could multi-channel sound be streamed to the base unit?

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but unfortunately I've been out of the NX speculation loop.

 

[4Tran]

Of course such customers exist, but I don't think there are nearly enough who care enough about having AAA multiplats and Mario on a single console to significantly change the trajectory of Nintendo's console business.

I don't think that it's going to be impossible for the NX console to do well (or at least decently), but having AAA multiplatforms and Nintendo games isn't going to be enough. They'll have to find some sort of magical combination of appealing hardware, great features, and an excellent price point to gain any traction at launch. The first few months will be crucial in determine how well the console will perform: if it isn't able to penetrate the larger market within that period, we can safely write it off like we should have with the Wii U.

 

[fredrancour]

Of course such customers exist, but I don't think there are nearly enough who care enough about having AAA multiplats and Mario on a single console to significantly change the trajectory of Nintendo's console business.

If anything were to change it'd have to be a slow, slow process. "Oh shoot, tons of my current online gaming buddies are on my NX from playing mario kart 9 and Super Smash Brothers Fracas and Spla2n: Inklectric Boogaloo. I guess I might as well get Postmodern Warfare and Sportsball 2k17 on this thing too." It would never be enough to take away those flagship marketing promotions from the HD twins, but it might be enough to keep the ports coming for a full generation. Nintendo can't flip the narrative entirely with a single fall of releases so they've gotta look for incremental opportunities like that.

Of course, that particular avenue becomes outright impossible instead of merely unlikely if they don't improve their online systems...

 

[sörine]

Again, to those saying NX will be 9th gen, what proof is there? Again 2600/5200, a system and its successor, both in the same gen.

Well, product timelines. 4/5 years isn't exactly unheard of for successor platforms marking a new generation. Iwata also described it as a new game platform, which echoes the marketing talk we heard back when DS and Wii were being rolled out (remember "New Generation"?). What proof is there that it isn't 9th gen?

5200 could also be argued to be 3rd gen, although it'd just get lumped with 7800 then so the point still stands. SG-1000 and Sega Mark III/SMS are another good example of successor platforms launching within the same generation.

 

[GamerJM]

if they don't improve their online systems...

I was going to bring this up but decided not to since I'm not sure if I can follow up on it, but I think this is honestly Nintendo's biggest hurdle with attracting western third-parties and getting people to buy western third-party games when they do. Their online infrastructure is just so far behind Sony and Microsoft's, and building something on par with theirs would take years and lots of money.

 

[Clefargle]

Kids don't have consoles at all anymore. They and all their friends have tablets and phones.

Not true, there are plenty of kid COD and battlefield console players

 

[Who]

What signs are those?

Just a personal take on things.

We know that a new 3D Mario has been in development for some time.

We know a 2D and/or a 3D Metroid is being developed.

We know that Retro has been working on their project for some time.

We know Pikmin 4 is being developed

We know that the NX will absorb the Wii U's architecture, so porting these projects to the NX shouldn't be too big of a feat, nor should porting "Ultimate" editions of Smash, Kart, Splatoon etc.

We pretty much know that Zelda will launch with the NX

Nintendo has greatly expanded its development studios in recent years

Nintendo has had 5 years now of overcoming the initial problems they met in developing for HD

Nintendo has combined its handheld and home console divisions, they no longer have to code for 2 entirely different pieces of hardware.

 

[Vena]

I was going to bring this up but decided not to since I'm not sure if I can follow up on it, but I think this is honestly Nintendo's biggest hurdle with attracting western third-parties and getting people to buy western third-party games when they do. Their online infrastructure is just so far behind Sony and Microsoft's, and building something on par with theirs would take years and lots of money.

The online system in and of itself is fully functioning and built (they started building it up after the 3DS launched). Most of the "dated" aspects of it are not related to the actual infrastructure but simple company policy/decisions or hardware restrictions.